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Scuba

(53,475 posts)
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:29 AM Apr 2016

"If the Democratic Party would fight as hard for the Working Class ..."

"If the Democratic Party would fight as hard for the Working Class as the Republican Party fights for the Ruling Class, the Republicans would be a powerless minority party within a few election cycles.

The Democratic Party knows this, the Republican Party knows this, the Ruling Class knows this- and they've been astonishingly successful at making sure the Working Class never learns this.

The status quo was rolling along just fine, until Bernie Sanders came along and mucked it up with his crazy ideas about democracy, equality and justice."







My sister sent this truth to me this morning, but I'm not sure where she got it.
202 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"If the Democratic Party would fight as hard for the Working Class ..." (Original Post) Scuba Apr 2016 OP
Neither party was ever built DetroitSocialist83 Apr 2016 #1
Yep. The Democratic was the left and populist wing........ socialist_n_TN Apr 2016 #4
Our Owners Have It In The Bag And They Know It scottie55 Apr 2016 #13
Show them the money! Working class wants things but can't PAY Baobab Apr 2016 #61
right--that's how it backslid so quickly each time MisterP Apr 2016 #42
Dem's are not comunist: your post smacks of comunism: its not organized for one Ideal lewebley3 Apr 2016 #69
Oh, no, not you again. Stick to the fascist forum. Zephyrbag Apr 2016 #98
Stop attacking the party be because you are supportng Sanders lewebley3 Apr 2016 #101
Nah he should stay - perhaps he'll learn something. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #113
Hasn't happened yet. Scuba Apr 2016 #123
And won't appear to. A Turd Way apologist and enabler. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #136
Nothing bourgeoise about the Dem party: The Dem party put people lewebley3 Apr 2016 #175
Yeah as long as the "people" have ownership of the means of production...... socialist_n_TN Apr 2016 #187
Cummisn was crazy failure lewebley3 Apr 2016 #188
The Iron Law of Oligarchy TalkingDog Apr 2016 #47
Sorry: the GOP are the Oligarchy not Hillary lewebley3 Apr 2016 #67
The Democrats sold out too Meteor Man Apr 2016 #99
The never have sold out: they just reject Sanders: he is not Dem lewebley3 Apr 2016 #103
Right Meteor Man Apr 2016 #105
The are :they work hard for American's and they have accomplishments lewebley3 Apr 2016 #107
Accomplishments for the rich and powerful. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #114
I'm pretty sure it's not in the sand. Scuba Apr 2016 #124
might be sand in the vaseline reddread Apr 2016 #131
Ummm, no thanks! Scuba Apr 2016 #132
It's not in the sand. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #158
I think you are wasting your time with that one truebluegreen Apr 2016 #167
they are some of the Dem's lewebley3 Apr 2016 #176
Bernie is as much a Democrat as you are. nt Live and Learn Apr 2016 #164
Way more so laserhaas Apr 2016 #172
Sanders has not run as a Dem and won an office:tha'st one reason he shouldn't lewebley3 Apr 2016 #194
Since when is any of that a requirement to be a Democrat or run for office? Live and Learn Apr 2016 #202
Oh Puh puck puhhllleeeaaassseee laserhaas Apr 2016 #171
Obamas "third term" Plucketeer Apr 2016 #173
We can only be so lucky to have a Obama 3rd: Hillary will not have 16% lewebley3 Apr 2016 #174
Very true! Silver_Witch Apr 2016 #133
No. Dem's have never thrown workers under any bus :they have just rejecred lewebley3 Apr 2016 #178
Ha Ha...HRC is NOT an oligarch..entitled laserhaas Apr 2016 #166
Hillary worked for every thing she has: and she has been lewebley3 Apr 2016 #179
Got inside the bubble of privilege as soon as she could. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #184
If what you said were true she would. a GOP party person::instead she is fighting for all the lewebley3 Apr 2016 #190
I'm not 5he one lying to myself laserhaas Apr 2016 #186
Your life savings was stole by the GOP lewebley3 Apr 2016 #189
My life savings and career destroyed bSachs & Bain fraud covered up by Corruption/ willful blindness laserhaas Apr 2016 #191
Bush and the GOP are to blame: lewebley3 Apr 2016 #193
Hillary is beating Sanders because the people trust her: She helped rebuild lewebley3 Apr 2016 #196
The same problem would result 1939 Apr 2016 #119
Reading the new Thomas Frank book and he disagrees martigras Apr 2016 #57
Made a deal to privatize Social Security laserhaas Apr 2016 #169
Agreed::The Dem party is a shape sifting enitity: reps the needs of the non GOP lewebley3 Apr 2016 #66
The deal didn't come from trade unions: it came because the country was flat on its back: lewebley3 Apr 2016 #71
Absolutely correct!!!! Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2016 #129
Truth there... think Apr 2016 #2
Do you really think the ruling class put all their eggs in one basket? Skwmom Apr 2016 #3
Nope. Better to "own" both baskets. Scuba Apr 2016 #8
That is the fact that most don't realize. pangaia Apr 2016 #19
The most recent sale was held in the '80 when the Clintons Sold the PArty to the Koch Bros Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #23
+1 nt Duval Apr 2016 #46
The Clintion's didn't sell out anyone:they pulled 7.4m out poverty lewebley3 Apr 2016 #74
They invented the Information Age. DemocracyDirect Apr 2016 #77
They created wealth for the middle class: Bush crashed everything lewebley3 Apr 2016 #81
Unfortunately the repeal of Glass-Steagal probably had a lot to do with 2008. DemocracyDirect Apr 2016 #89
You're wasting keystrokes with that one. Scuba Apr 2016 #125
I know... DemocracyDirect Apr 2016 #126
Set in stone...Billy,s legacy is laserhaas Apr 2016 #168
Concur. Staying silent leads uniformed to believe Bull Chit.. I regret laserhaas Apr 2016 #198
I know. Her, mis'an and others - all love to rub salt in victims wounds laserhaas Apr 2016 #195
Glass-Stegal allowed the 2008 crash Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #153
No the GOP crashed everything: Everything was good when Clinton left lewebley3 Apr 2016 #197
Clinton set up the crash with Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #199
No he rasied taxes on the rich: there was bank regulations:: Bush deregulated and cut taxes lewebley3 Apr 2016 #200
You change the subject of your poat because you were wrong: lewebley3 Apr 2016 #180
hmmm Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #152
Bingo- and then distract us with things like guns, gays and abortion Marrah_G Apr 2016 #62
^^^THIS^^^!!! Dustlawyer Apr 2016 #157
The "Rothschild's Method". Phlem Apr 2016 #82
We were sold on the "two for one" idea clear back in 1992. Major Hogwash Apr 2016 #84
Good point. That would presume that their loyalty to a letter D or R is a higher priority than GoneFishin Apr 2016 #12
Eggzactly! Plucketeer Apr 2016 #51
It may very well be PowerToThePeople Apr 2016 #5
We can only hope. SoapBox Apr 2016 #10
We can only hope so........ socialist_n_TN Apr 2016 #11
I'm sure many of you already know this, but there is a viable KPN Apr 2016 #30
True, but they are only active in states that allow fusion voting eridani Apr 2016 #109
Right. Mostly beciuase they see what Bernie saw and did -- KPN Apr 2016 #111
No--the major opposition to fusion voting occurred in the 19th century eridani Apr 2016 #112
Ah. Didn't know that. KPN Apr 2016 #139
Nahh.... we are a two party system. that's it. What will lilely happen is the Dems will fracture FighttheFuture Apr 2016 #37
Highly doubtful. nt COLGATE4 Apr 2016 #135
That's it in a nutshell. I would add that by only pretending to fight for average Americans while GoneFishin Apr 2016 #6
"contempt for average people" scottie55 Apr 2016 #15
Couldn't agree more -- looking at the DNC at least. KPN Apr 2016 #32
It has become perfectly obvious despite the propaganda to the contrary. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #159
If All Democrats Truly Were Populists There Would Be No Republicans scottie55 Apr 2016 #7
"Rocket surgery" ... I like that! Made me laugh. KPN Apr 2016 #33
Wrong: the GOP are about greed: as long as there is greed there will be GOP lewebley3 Apr 2016 #78
The Turd Way Class loves their positions, power and money too. SoapBox Apr 2016 #9
When do they act like they care......from Eat your peas...to...welfare reform/cutting food stamp SammyWinstonJack Apr 2016 #31
It has been an eye opener for sure. KPN Apr 2016 #34
During the 30s-60s DetroitSocialist83 Apr 2016 #14
The stuff wasn't free. It is paid for by the labor of the people. It is our opponents who call it jtuck004 Apr 2016 #26
Absolutely true! silverweb Apr 2016 #60
Hey! Please drop the "free stuff" and "handing out gifts" (your upthread post) talk. KPN Apr 2016 #35
Sorry guys DetroitSocialist83 Apr 2016 #48
Yeah use the *sarcasm* icon....... socialist_n_TN Apr 2016 #73
Huh? Person 2713 Apr 2016 #44
If the DLC fought for the 99% the Rs would be powerless. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2016 #16
well, I think we know what the DLC is all about Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #27
The 99%came from the GOP:not Clinton. he raised taxes on the rich 1% lewebley3 Apr 2016 #75
And quite happily ushered in "Welfare Reform" and NAFTA GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #115
Welfare fair and NAFTA: were administer under Bush: The country was sound and debt free lewebley3 Apr 2016 #118
Sorry no. WJC & HRC laid the groundwork for todays oligarchs. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #141
Clinton laid the ground work for a great economy: Bush felt he had to give money back lewebley3 Apr 2016 #142
So why does she support the private prison industry? GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #146
She. doesn't support any prison industry: your post just nonsense lewebley3 Apr 2016 #177
She has in the past. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #183
Stop with smearing lies about Hillary lewebley3 Apr 2016 #192
You continue to not respond to questions. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #201
It's now almost 24 hours and no reply to my questions. I wonder why? GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #156
Probably have to create a new unknown identity. Blew that one. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #161
The wind from Camp Weathervane blows in odd directions. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #185
the biggest problem is an uniformed and brainwashed electorate that votes against its own best Takket Apr 2016 #17
True that !!! pangaia Apr 2016 #20
but of course the PTB perpetuate this system too-- and work hard to brainwash them Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #29
Good point. I was really hoping Michael Moore's new 2cannan Apr 2016 #49
Who are you to decide others are not voting their best interest: you sound like a Sanders lewebley3 Apr 2016 #76
Year after year, decade after decade. Major Hogwash Apr 2016 #90
They've been brainwashed into believing the poor have it too good Martin Eden Apr 2016 #170
No matter where your sister found it... ReRe Apr 2016 #18
Right on for your sister. I agree that wherever she got it, it's good stuff. Go Bernie! highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #21
The Ruling Class has lot's of $$ and major media behind them. Lazy thinkers vkkv Apr 2016 #22
Well done. zentrum Apr 2016 #24
Yes, this fits with what I posted this morning Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #25
K and R nt Rebkeh Apr 2016 #28
Before New Democrats, the Party did fight hard for workers and those who can't work. merrily Apr 2016 #36
The Dem party has never stopped fighting for workers: they lewebley3 Apr 2016 #79
REALLY? They lost 3 Presidentials--Reagan was a one off, though--but they controlled Congress merrily Apr 2016 #120
Under Clinton there was mostly peace and prosperity: would love Hillary to be President lewebley3 Apr 2016 #121
That's not true either. He bombed Iraq, like Poppy and Dimson and there were other merrily Apr 2016 #122
Clinton inherited Iraq: and chose not invade like Bush: Kosvos was Clinton, lewebley3 Apr 2016 #143
Nope he did not inherit Iraq. It was over. He decided to bomb it all on his own. merrily Apr 2016 #144
Clinton contained Iraq lewebley3 Apr 2016 #154
Memories . . light the corners of my mind . . misty water-colored memories . . of the way we were Major Hogwash Apr 2016 #100
The proof is in the pudding. 80 people own over half the worlds wealth. I don't think some folks Rex Apr 2016 #38
What we need to understand most is that it is a continuing struggle. kristopher Apr 2016 #39
Non-pop Dem-lite is a great gig. Lots of money. Bandaid change or two bring quick results. Festivito Apr 2016 #40
Frank Thomas........................."Listen Liberals"............................... turbinetree Apr 2016 #41
Ought to be required reading for any liberal martigras Apr 2016 #59
FDR......................... turbinetree Apr 2016 #86
Honk! ReRe Apr 2016 #92
Thomas Frank.................................. turbinetree Apr 2016 #134
This is why I suspect a lot of "Hillary supporters" here are paid. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #43
And obviously not paid enough. GoneOffShore Apr 2016 #150
Me too. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #162
The Democratic Party Elite have abandoned the Working Class years ago. nm rhett o rick Apr 2016 #45
+1 bobthedrummer Apr 2016 #53
When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Apr 2016 #50
The Democratic Party, at least the faction of it that's currently in control, The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2016 #52
The people who control the Dem's are people who have won elections: they should be in charge lewebley3 Apr 2016 #87
"Put their lives on the line"? The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2016 #88
You wouldn't ask that if you ever ran for office: you bash at real progressives lewebley3 Apr 2016 #93
LOL! You want to explain to me how Hillary qualifies as a "real progressive"? The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2016 #95
You wouldn't know a real progressive if one bit you on the ass. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #163
you should put principle before party eniwetok Apr 2016 #97
The party is based on principles: it is the basic idea of people 1St lewebley3 Apr 2016 #106
Truth! cer7711 Apr 2016 #54
Beautifully put. Thanks. Scuba Apr 2016 #55
This^^^! Phlem Apr 2016 #56
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Apr 2016 #58
It would be GREAT if all our fellow Dems who support Hillary Oldenuff Apr 2016 #63
This is absolutely true, Scuba. Most voters want real Democrats to run the nation. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #64
There's a revolution coming. WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2016 #65
I've seen stuff from conservatives claiming Republicans are the party of the working class.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2016 #68
sure... they crash wages then compensate with irresponsible tax cuts. eniwetok Apr 2016 #96
Dem's should be about all American'.,not just the working class: Dem's come from all walks of income lewebley3 Apr 2016 #70
Who are you to complain about what the party has not done: What lewebley3 Apr 2016 #72
Why are you conflating ALL Dems as one? eniwetok Apr 2016 #83
Hillary and.Obama have done the progressive work: the other Dem's lewebley3 Apr 2016 #91
I hardly consider Obama or Hillary to be "Progressives" eniwetok Apr 2016 #94
Obama's ACA is the biggest progressive action since LBJ: lewebley3 Apr 2016 #108
cherry picking eniwetok Apr 2016 #145
No cherry picking: five other President tied before hin: lewebley3 Apr 2016 #155
it's cherrypicking because eniwetok Apr 2016 #181
oh come on chillfactor Apr 2016 #80
the leadership of BOTH parties is corrupt Zephyrbag Apr 2016 #104
Bernie Fans don't know how to bash the GOP CorkySt.Clair Apr 2016 #137
K&R... spanone Apr 2016 #85
why are many working class white people voting for Donald Trump over Bernie Sanders ? JI7 Apr 2016 #102
Because they hate Mexicans more than banksters n/t eridani Apr 2016 #110
Totally on point! nt Raine Apr 2016 #116
K&R! Lunabell Apr 2016 #117
The party rules for the elite and the establishment's benefit need to go. The people need to bkkyosemite Apr 2016 #127
As much as I hate to say it...November is shaping up to... yourout Apr 2016 #128
"As much as I hate to say it." CorkySt.Clair Apr 2016 #138
woo rec number 300!!! nt retrowire Apr 2016 #130
So true, that's why I fully support Bernie Sanders. B Calm Apr 2016 #140
Supreme court nominee says it all RedCloud Apr 2016 #147
Yep. I was pulling for a true progressive, which would have made the Republicans wet their pants. Scuba Apr 2016 #148
K&R myrna minx Apr 2016 #149
emphasis on working class....tired of all this middle class bs...hell the walton prob think they are dembotoz Apr 2016 #151
Excellent post, Scuba MissDeeds Apr 2016 #160
Worthy post. Thanks! FailureToCommunicate Apr 2016 #165
"They say America needs a third party. It sure could use a second one." - Jim Hightower. HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #182
 

DetroitSocialist83

(169 posts)
1. Neither party was ever built
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:47 AM
Apr 2016

To represent the working class and oppressed peoples. The New Deal came due to direct action by trade unionists, socialists, communists, neighborhood councils that forced a moratorium on foreclosures, ect ect. The people at the top who control the parties didn't just decide to hand out gifts one day. Until we have mass people power in the streets, at congressional offices, organizing neighborhood councils, using social media ect there will be no large scale change. Change comes from the bottom up. Same as the Great Society in the 60s.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
4. Yep. The Democratic was the left and populist wing........
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:57 AM
Apr 2016

of the bourgeoisie. At least on occasion it was. The Democratic Party NEVER even claimed to be a party for workers. On their best day, the Dems claimed to be a party for ALL classes, the workers and the bosses. Of course even basic analysis would show that his is an impossibility. Class struggle is a zero-sum game. When the bosses win, the workers lose and vice versa. Change comes from the bottom up as you said. Until the capitalists feel their very existence is threatened, they will do nothing. And that's probably even more true today than it was in the past with capitalism running up against real limits on growth and a short term (next quarter) attention span.

BTW welcome to DU and check out our Socialist Progressives group. It's big enough that you'll probably find some co-thinkers there.

 

scottie55

(1,400 posts)
13. Our Owners Have It In The Bag And They Know It
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:03 AM
Apr 2016

Hillary, Trump, or Cruz will do nothing about their ownership or our failed democracy......

Even Jimmy Carter admits we are an Oligarchs ran by bribery.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/jimmy-carter-u-s-is-an-oligarchy-with-unlimited-political-bribery-20150731

If you don't support Bernie, don't complain if your pile of crumbs falling off the 1%'ers spittle is reduced.

Just think. Only 23% of the families living in poverty get help from the government.

They will work for nothing, or enlist in prison. Win win for the Oligarchs.

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
61. Show them the money! Working class wants things but can't PAY
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:36 PM
Apr 2016

Compare that to the Pharmaceutical industry or Health Insurance Industry.

$$$$$$

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
42. right--that's how it backslid so quickly each time
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:09 PM
Apr 2016

even neoliberalism was pinkwashed under Carter 1979-80--it was something that'd lift all the boats and went against the elitist state: even libertarian socialists got excited by the prospects of a New Economy

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
69. Dem's are not comunist: your post smacks of comunism: its not organized for one Ideal
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:01 PM
Apr 2016

Last edited Mon Apr 11, 2016, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

i

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
187. Yeah as long as the "people" have ownership of the means of production......
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 08:05 PM
Apr 2016

the Dems will put them first. BTW, I am communist. A Classic Red. A Trotskyist. A fundamental Bolshevik. Revolutionary Socialist. Bolshevik-Leninist. Anybody who has read my posts on here for the last decade or so, knows that.

TalkingDog

(9,001 posts)
47. The Iron Law of Oligarchy
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:02 PM
Apr 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

According to Michels all organizations eventually come to be run by a "leadership class", who often function as paid administrators, executives, spokespersons, political strategists, organizers, etc. for the organization. Far from being "servants of the masses", Michels argues this "leadership class" will inevitably grow to dominate the organization's power structures rather than its membership. By controlling who has access to information, those in power can centralize their power successfully, often with little accountability, due to the apathy, indifference and non-participation most rank-and-file members have in relation to their organization's decision-making processes. Michels argues that democratic attempts to hold leadership positions accountable are prone to fail, since with power comes the ability to reward loyalty, the ability to control information about the organization, and the ability to control what procedures the organization follows when making decisions. All of these mechanisms can be used to strongly influence the outcome of any decisions made 'democratically' by members.


Say, for instance, the DNC and HRC deciding by August 2015 that she was the nominee and funneling millions from wealthy donors through the DNC and Victory for Hillary.

That, in no way, is a Democracy.

Meteor Man

(385 posts)
99. The Democrats sold out too
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:23 PM
Apr 2016

The DLC/DNC/Third Way Democrats made a conscious decision to throw unions and working class Americans under the bus in exchange for contributions from the donor class.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
194. Sanders has not run as a Dem and won an office:tha'st one reason he shouldn't
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 01:23 PM
Apr 2016

be able to become the Den noiminee. He doesn't qualify as a superdelaget.
Also Sanders was always bashing the party.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
202. Since when is any of that a requirement to be a Democrat or run for office?
Thu Apr 14, 2016, 12:39 AM
Apr 2016

It is not. Sorry, you don't get to make up rules.

And there is nothing wrong with bashing the party or the country when it needs bashing. Walking in lockstep is not our way!

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
173. Obamas "third term"
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 10:43 AM
Apr 2016

is what Dame Hillary will be. And just like Obama, she'll NEVER find just the right shoes to walk a picket line with. This is because they both walk ON labor - not WITH labor.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
174. We can only be so lucky to have a Obama 3rd: Hillary will not have 16%
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 11:47 AM
Apr 2016

unemployment: She will start her term with the

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
178. No. Dem's have never thrown workers under any bus :they have just rejecred
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 12:05 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders: your represents sore loser:The
party is doing just fine.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
179. Hillary worked for every thing she has: and she has been
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 12:13 PM
Apr 2016

in public service most of her life for
the American people: She has inherited nothing and she is not a trust baby: sorry
your lies won't hunt

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
184. Got inside the bubble of privilege as soon as she could.
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 02:41 PM
Apr 2016

Found that the grift that she and WJC constructed could get them bucks and invites to the best Goldman-Sachs parties and has never looked backed.

You're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
186. I'm not 5he one lying to myself
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 03:42 PM
Apr 2016

Goldman Sachs and Bain Capital stole my life saving$
.
Bernie gives us hope.
.
Hill us jack chit


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141410577

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
191. My life savings and career destroyed bSachs & Bain fraud covered up by Corruption/ willful blindness
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 01:13 PM
Apr 2016

that also includes mayhem and homicides

by sick fug'ughs like Hillary who suck up to Sachs for $$$$$

Go give your gal a hug and tell her, even if she succeeds in stealing the nomination

Sachs is going to face justice

1939

(1,683 posts)
119. The same problem would result
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 05:27 AM
Apr 2016

In a socialist or communist system. Within a generation all of the "power types" would have wormed their way inside the government apparatus and would be running things. They gravitate to power and not just to business.

martigras

(151 posts)
57. Reading the new Thomas Frank book and he disagrees
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:15 PM
Apr 2016

Frank says the Democrats were the party of the working man until 1972 when they decided to abandon them and the unions to go after the "professional class". The DLC from that time on argued that the party was "too liberal" every time they lost an election. Bill Clinton became the head of the DLC and helped steer the party toward the Republicans. He even made a deal with Gingrich to privatize Social Security but it fell thru because the Lewisky scandal broke. Clinton "would confront and antagonize Democrats traditional base because he knew they had no where else to go." Things sure haven't changed much.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
71. The deal didn't come from trade unions: it came because the country was flat on its back:
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:13 PM
Apr 2016

FDR created a very capitalist that was a Dem

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
23. The most recent sale was held in the '80 when the Clintons Sold the PArty to the Koch Bros
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:40 AM
Apr 2016

and became the DLC Blue Dog Third Way Corporatist Party

 

DemocracyDirect

(708 posts)
89. Unfortunately the repeal of Glass-Steagal probably had a lot to do with 2008.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:57 PM
Apr 2016

As I remember sitting at a special board meeting in Las Vegas in March 2000 when the .com bubble burst, the Clintons were still in office.

The decline of the economy began immediately after that ending with what happened in 2008. I was actually involved on the IT side in the mortgage market in 2003-2007 watching the middle class decline being managed. I sold my house in 2007 because I knew what was going down.

I loved Bill Clinton too at the time. But after doing a ton of research I see what really happened.

It really takes a right-leaning Democrat to undo all the progress the Democrats made in the decades before.

 

DemocracyDirect

(708 posts)
126. I know...
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 07:16 AM
Apr 2016

But you really can't leave their ridiculous arguments unanswered.

There are some unsuspecting newbies around that might believe them.

And there are a few soft supporters that can be swayed by reasonable arguments.

It's going to take a lot of educating to dispel the myths of the past.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
198. Concur. Staying silent leads uniformed to believe Bull Chit.. I regret
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 01:45 PM
Apr 2016

that - in the past - sometimes I ignored

other times I was baited by faux dems (such as Adam B's gang getting me bojo'd off DailyKos)

And - I used my name , from the beginning, instead of psuedo (use Whamzees - now - on my blogs)

People would have paid more attention, had my name not been on top.

AND

U R totally spot on .... Clinton, Bill - repeal of Glass Steagal, assisted GWB in slaughtering of U.S.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
195. I know. Her, mis'an and others - all love to rub salt in victims wounds
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 01:37 PM
Apr 2016

and they arrogantly believe their babbling banter obfuscating can erode the truth.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
199. Clinton set up the crash with
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 01:48 PM
Apr 2016

NAFTA, WTO, GATT and signing Glass-Stegal

We were in a bubble. It popped. And, BTW, Obama did nothing to prevent another crash and has set up a future that will be even worse with TPP/

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
62. Bingo- and then distract us with things like guns, gays and abortion
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:00 PM
Apr 2016

As long as they can keep people fighting over those, they can continue to rob us blind.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
84. We were sold on the "two for one" idea clear back in 1992.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:52 PM
Apr 2016

I thought Bubba was talking about him and his wife when he said that.
He wasn't, he was talking about the idea of having 2 separate parties, but that was after the merger.
A DINO is a RHINO by another name.

Sort of like when Dubya said that Bubba was "his brother from another mother."

And then people wonder why Bubba spent so much time playing golf with George H.W. in the early 2000's!!

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
12. Good point. That would presume that their loyalty to a letter D or R is a higher priority than
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:03 AM
Apr 2016

their loyalty to money.

So no.

KPN

(15,578 posts)
30. I'm sure many of you already know this, but there is a viable
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:19 PM
Apr 2016

Working Families Party that has existed in several States since the late 1990's. It has had some successes, seems to be growing and actually has endorsed Bernie Sanders as a candidate its members should support for the Presidency in 2016. They've also endorsed other progressive and socialist candidates at other levels in the past.

Google them -- there's plenty of info out there. They haven't been established in a lot of States, but they are growing.

I am probably going to switch my party affiliation here in Oregon after this election cycle, maybe before the GE -- we'll see. It's a Party that really is about the people!

eridani

(51,907 posts)
109. True, but they are only active in states that allow fusion voting
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 12:59 AM
Apr 2016

IOW, running as the candidate of more than one party. While doing public banking research a couple of years ago, I found a VT state legislator who was listed as being a Green, a WF Party member and a Democrat. I think Hillary rann in NY as both a Dem and a WFP member.

KPN

(15,578 posts)
111. Right. Mostly beciuase they see what Bernie saw and did --
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:07 AM
Apr 2016

which is that the odds are stacked against them if they run entirely outside the two party system. But I think the Bernie movement has created an opportunity where they can take it broader. And I suspect they will.

The Working Family Party is supporting Bernie in Oregon. I'm sure the same is true in the other fusion States.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
112. No--the major opposition to fusion voting occurred in the 19th century
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:14 AM
Apr 2016

Too many people were winning as candidates both for the Populist Party and the Democrats.

KPN

(15,578 posts)
139. Ah. Didn't know that.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 11:59 AM
Apr 2016

No wonder its only allowed in several States. The two parties are against it.

 

FighttheFuture

(1,313 posts)
37. Nahh.... we are a two party system. that's it. What will lilely happen is the Dems will fracture
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:02 PM
Apr 2016

after the Republicans have gone the way of the Whigs and No Nothings... into obscurity. The Democratic party will end up fracturing into two parties. The Clintonian New Republican wing and the Sanders Liberal wing, more in the spirt of FDR/Jefferson. At some point then, we can hopefully fix our election system up to diminish the two party approach so more can be better represented. Initiatives such as instant run-off voting, eliminating money in politics, breaking up the media so we actually have real news reporting again, besides the smattering of liberal stations and RT news, or/and other techniques, time will tell. Or, this is all stymied by the Oligarchs and we slide further in Fascism, planetary system breakdowns and eventual world war.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
6. That's it in a nutshell. I would add that by only pretending to fight for average Americans while
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:58 AM
Apr 2016

quietly rigging the game for the 1%, the Democratic Party is more destructive in the long run than the Republican Party who rubs their contempt for average people in our face every day.

 

scottie55

(1,400 posts)
7. If All Democrats Truly Were Populists There Would Be No Republicans
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:58 AM
Apr 2016

My OP: If All Democrats Truly Were Populists There Would Be No Republicans

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027730252

It's not rocket surgery.....

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
9. The Turd Way Class loves their positions, power and money too.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:59 AM
Apr 2016

So they sit back and act like they care.

We've seen them running out from the shadows to attack Bernie...what an eye opener it's been.

Time to say good bye to the Entrenched Elite Eatablishment.

SammyWinstonJack

(44,129 posts)
31. When do they act like they care......from Eat your peas...to...welfare reform/cutting food stamp
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:23 PM
Apr 2016

benefits....to gold standard trade deals....etc.....when do they act like they care?

KPN

(15,578 posts)
34. It has been an eye opener for sure.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:31 PM
Apr 2016

Especially when you see the likes of Howard Dean, Congressman Lewis, Bill DeBlasio, and even Barack Obama -- people I thought were real progressives!

It makes one wonder, is everybody susceptible to the allure of power and wealth? Hopefully not, but it is a scary question.

 

DetroitSocialist83

(169 posts)
14. During the 30s-60s
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:03 AM
Apr 2016

The USA also had competiton from the USSR before it went into its own self inflicted corrupt decline. During the 30s while we were getting New Deal "free stuff" here, we were still actively overthrowing reformist governments all over Latin America. Same story, different decade.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
26. The stuff wasn't free. It is paid for by the labor of the people. It is our opponents who call it
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:42 AM
Apr 2016

free stuff, in quotes or not.

Not a god damn thing free about it.

KPN

(15,578 posts)
35. Hey! Please drop the "free stuff" and "handing out gifts" (your upthread post) talk.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 12:36 PM
Apr 2016

It's a bullshit right-wing meme that has been used for three-plus decades to jack up low information voter animous toward government in general, but specifically progressives. You are playing into their hand when you use such phrases. Why not use "do good stuff", "put people first", etc., instead.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
73. Yeah use the *sarcasm* icon.......
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:24 PM
Apr 2016
Although I did see the " around "free stuff" and figured it was sarcasm. But better to be safe than sorry.

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
115. And quite happily ushered in "Welfare Reform" and NAFTA
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 03:58 AM
Apr 2016

Along with DOMA, DADT, private prisons, police militarization, etc. ad nauseum.

And HRC? She was busy dismantling public education.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
118. Welfare fair and NAFTA: were administer under Bush: The country was sound and debt free
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 04:57 AM
Apr 2016

when they left the White House: Under Bush 85.000 factories
went over sea because of the GOP: This was the time when croney
Capitalism was king which led to the crash. The Clintons would
would not have passed additional tax relief to make. It easer
to. move jobs over seas.i


The Dem"s lost the election and that is what caused American
to lose their jobs not Clinton: everything was fine under the Clintons.

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
141. Sorry no. WJC & HRC laid the groundwork for todays oligarchs.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 12:08 PM
Apr 2016

Triangulate, divide, dismantle.

Welfare, public education, the encouragement of privatization, etc, etc, etc.

Conservative wolves in the the clothing of liberals. And history will show that to be true.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
142. Clinton laid the ground work for a great economy: Bush felt he had to give money back
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:36 PM
Apr 2016

to American's the country did so well: The oligarchs are the GOP and they
are proud of it:

Privatization is a corner stone of the GOP: Bush went out month after month
trying to privatize SS:

You cannot put the sins of the GOP on the Clinton: Dem's not showing up to

vote laid the groundwork for oligarchs: with Nader supporters help.

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
146. So why does she support the private prison industry?
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:59 PM
Apr 2016

Why does she support the destruction of public education?

Why does she not support universal healthcare?

Why does she not support a $15 minimum wage?

Why does she support fracking?

Why does she look to neo liberalism and Henry Kissinger for her ideas on foreign policy?

WJC laid the groundwork for the feudalization of America. HRC wants to continue it.

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
183. She has in the past.
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 02:37 PM
Apr 2016

Almost assuredly she will in the future.

And, surprise, surprise, that's the only question you have almost, but not quite, left unanswered.

Try again, oh webley.

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
201. You continue to not respond to questions.
Wed Apr 13, 2016, 04:37 PM
Apr 2016

And so, Webley le -



Why does she support the destruction of public education?

Why does she not support universal healthcare?

Why does she not support a $15 minimum wage?

Why does she support fracking?

Why does she look to neo liberalism and Henry Kissinger for her ideas on foreign policy?

GoneOffShore

(17,303 posts)
156. It's now almost 24 hours and no reply to my questions. I wonder why?
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 02:56 AM
Apr 2016
Why does she support the private prison industry?

Why does she support the destruction of public education?

Why does she not support universal healthcare?

Why does she not support a $15 minimum wage?

Why does she support fracking?

Why does she look to neo liberalism and Henry Kissinger for her ideas on foreign policy?


Is it perhaps because you know that she does all these things because she herself is a friend of the oligarchs and the reincarnation of Margaret Thatcher?

Takket

(21,353 posts)
17. the biggest problem is an uniformed and brainwashed electorate that votes against its own best
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:27 AM
Apr 2016

interests. nearly half this country thinks that the reason why the struggle to get by in life is that the rich don't have enough money.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
29. but of course the PTB perpetuate this system too-- and work hard to brainwash them
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:44 AM
Apr 2016

Funny you wrote "uniformed", when I think you meant "uninformed".

However, uniformed kind of fits when you think about poor people going into the armed forces.

2cannan

(344 posts)
49. Good point. I was really hoping Michael Moore's new
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:54 PM
Apr 2016

movie would get more traction and affect the primary.

If Americans were only more aware of how much better US corporations in other countries treat their workers because it's either the law or expected there, they might finally be fed up enough to demand those same benefits here.

Just one example:
Working At McDonald’s Is Starkly Different In These 3 Countries

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/global-mcdonalds-protests_n_5324938.html

A person can dream, can't they?

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
76. Who are you to decide others are not voting their best interest: you sound like a Sanders
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:35 PM
Apr 2016

Socialist

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
90. Year after year, decade after decade.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:58 PM
Apr 2016

They have to have some kind of analysis paralysis to vote for the middle-of-the-roaders year after year, decade after decade.

Martin Eden

(12,786 posts)
170. They've been brainwashed into believing the poor have it too good
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 10:05 AM
Apr 2016

Doesn't matter that many R voters are poor themselves, as long as they feel they can look down on other people as undeserving.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
18. No matter where your sister found it...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:28 AM
Apr 2016

... it rings true. Bernie is doing a fantastic job of teaching everyone to

"think outside of the box."

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
22. The Ruling Class has lot's of $$ and major media behind them. Lazy thinkers
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:40 AM
Apr 2016

who vote conservative do not search far below the layers of lies.

And besides, there is too much illusion, smoke and mirrors for an uninformed voter to vote on what they really do want.

The statement above sounds great, but I don;t see it taking us very far, sorry.




 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
25. Yes, this fits with what I posted this morning
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:41 AM
Apr 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511696814

But yeah, it seems clear that the PTB don't want one party to represent both minorities and the white working class.


 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
79. The Dem party has never stopped fighting for workers: they
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:44 PM
Apr 2016

just lost election for years until Clinton .

merrily

(45,251 posts)
120. REALLY? They lost 3 Presidentials--Reagan was a one off, though--but they controlled Congress
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 06:01 AM
Apr 2016

until half way through the first term of DLCer Clinton. New Deal Roosevelt and Fair Deal Truman combined held the Oval Office longer than did Reagan and Poppy combined. It happens. But we continued to have New Deals/Fair Deal Democrats until Clinton.

Once in office, Bubba lobbied hard for Poppy's NAFTA and the pro bankster laws that, combined, allowed the banksters to collapse the economy of several nations in 2008 with little ability on the part of working Americans to get work and recover--and no welfare, either. And, thanks to morphing into the Party of Third Way "electible" candidates, we sustained historic losses in Congress and on state and local levels in 2010 and 2014. That was soooo not a good trade off for the Oval Office--but then again big business needed the Oval Office for TPP. Thanks for sharing!

As far as fighting for labor, Trumka would beg to differ with you. He announced some time ago that he's had a snootful of this sh*t. Formation of the Working Families Party wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of your view that Democrats were fighting hard for labor. And we did hold strong majorities in both houses Congress from January 2007 through January 2011 without even trying to pass EFCA.

But thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, yours is another screen name that sometimes posts nearly unintelligibly and sometimes in clear, complete sentences. It's puzzling!






merrily

(45,251 posts)
122. That's not true either. He bombed Iraq, like Poppy and Dimson and there were other
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 06:19 AM
Apr 2016

things as well, plus "extraordinary rendition." My prior post addressed the disastrous outcomes of his policies. As far as the "modest budget surplus" with which he left office, taxes and fees had gone up under Reagan and Poppy, so increased revenues had been coming in, and, as mentioned in my prior post, Bubba had "welfare as we know it." So, duh.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
143. Clinton inherited Iraq: and chose not invade like Bush: Kosvos was Clinton,
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:42 PM
Apr 2016

and we didn't lose one American solder: the people
have named streets after Clinton; he saved a lot of
lives.

The Clinton's have proven to very competent in just about
everything they do: Its shame when they are not perfect
they get raked over the coals.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
144. Nope he did not inherit Iraq. It was over. He decided to bomb it all on his own.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:47 PM
Apr 2016

Not perfect? LOL! Poster, please. My prior posts to you did not describe a President who was merely "not perfect." Just ask the US, the UK, Portugal, Greece, etc.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
100. Memories . . light the corners of my mind . . misty water-colored memories . . of the way we were
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:24 PM
Apr 2016

Scattered pictures . . of the smiles we left behind . . smiles we gave to one another . . for the way we were . .

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
38. The proof is in the pudding. 80 people own over half the worlds wealth. I don't think some folks
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:08 PM
Apr 2016

can visually wrap their brain around that concept. 80 people out of 7,000,000,000. For that to happen OF COURSE the establishment had to have a hand in it 100%. And not just for 4 or 8 years either...no sir...for decades. This past half century.

The hard part it getting anyone to be a grown adult and admit to helping form American into a militant plutocracy, so we can start forming it into something more akin to democracy and less plutocracy.

I don't know if we can ever get rid of the MIC, Rome might collapse if we did that.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
39. What we need to understand most is that it is a continuing struggle.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:33 PM
Apr 2016

Sometimes it seems we're part of a cosmic cycle:

"First they ignore you.
Then they ridicule you.
And then they attack you and want to burn you.
And then they build monuments to you."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016151028

Festivito

(13,452 posts)
40. Non-pop Dem-lite is a great gig. Lots of money. Bandaid change or two bring quick results.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:33 PM
Apr 2016

If we fight for Bernie, we win big.
If not, if we fight for the bandaid giver. At least the bandaid is better than the uncovered cuts left by the cutter that will get into office. In fact, a lot better.

turbinetree

(24,606 posts)
41. Frank Thomas........................."Listen Liberals"...............................
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 01:38 PM
Apr 2016

new book pretty much explains what is happening in this party.

And after reflecting on what I was doing through the late 60's and 70's he pretty much has it right, the professionals that have replaced the working class, is now the name of the game, they are not the name of the game.

I highly recommend this book, because this party use to have the worker(s) at the table, union at the table, poor at the table, you name it.
FDR had outsiders on his team, and the New democrats have other ideas, they want those from the educated and there schools and there professions, about telling us what we need, they don't want FDR, well guess what I want my FDR and his New Deal, and Thomas is collectively correct in his book.

This book reinforced my concept as to why I support Bernie Sanders------------------------its about the grass root and FDR


Honk----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

martigras

(151 posts)
59. Ought to be required reading for any liberal
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:39 PM
Apr 2016

Great book. Made me dislike the Clintons even more than before. Even Obama comes off pretty badly. I was surprised that Clinton and Obama both wanted to privatize or cut Social Security as did Bush. The average working stiff is not being represented by either party.

turbinetree

(24,606 posts)
86. FDR.........................
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:54 PM
Apr 2016

FDR got it right , and I agree with your analysis



This book should be read, Thomas got is right, in my opinion

I support Bernie Sanders, because I truly believe that he will have outsiders nominated and representing the worker at this table.

That's all I ask for, it really is not much to ask, I want the collective voice of the worker at that table, they do it in Germany, the worker is at that table.

I am not a New Democrat, I am a New Deal Democrat and proud of it, and we will not be shoved aside this time again, and have never even thought about the republicans----------------but when meritocracy is being used to further an agenda, then ENOUGH is ENOUGH

This is one of the cores issues with the Sanders campaign-----------------to try and remind people of the ...................


meritocracy
[mer-i-tok-ruh-see]

Examples
Word Origin

noun, plural meritocracies.
1. an elite group of people whose progress is based on ability and talent rather than on class privilege or wealth.
2. a system in which such persons are rewarded and advanced:
The dean believes the educational system should be a meritocracy.
3. leadership by able and talented persons.



Honk----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016





turbinetree

(24,606 posts)
134. Thomas Frank..................................
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:38 AM
Apr 2016

it was a real eye opener to important issues which I had forgotten all about and especially in the DLC mantra.

I have never been a great believer in there system, but when forced between the two evils, it was just that, forced between the two evils---------------------not anymore

It is a playbook that is being generated now in this election cycle by this particular system, which is and has been in place since 1972 and it then just gained power in 1992, and if anyone doesn't believe this, then there isn't any amount of words to convince them, that the DLC , Third Way professionals, does not want the FDR New Deal in place, they want the New Democrats agenda in place----------------its that simple


Honk---------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

It is about getting a Progressive / Liberal President, U.S. Supreme Court, Congress, and State and Local Legislatures





cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
50. When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:09 PM
Apr 2016

eom

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,070 posts)
52. The Democratic Party, at least the faction of it that's currently in control,
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:14 PM
Apr 2016

is as much a part of the ruling class as the GOP. They don't want to give away the store to the Little People, so they'll throw us a few crumbs (making sure they throw us more crumbs than the GOP throws) to be sure we don't revolt, and then proceed with business as usual for the 1%.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
87. The people who control the Dem's are people who have won elections: they should be in charge
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:55 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders people are left wing tea party people who do
nothing but bash other Dem's that have been putting
their lives on line for the party.




The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,070 posts)
95. LOL! You want to explain to me how Hillary qualifies as a "real progressive"?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:10 PM
Apr 2016

She's a centrist. Always has been. She's pretty close to where Richard Nixon was 45 years ago. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/walker-bragman/hillary-clinton-is-no-pro_b_9204690.html

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
97. you should put principle before party
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:19 PM
Apr 2016

Party narratives change. If a Party strays from principles of social justice... then the Party needs to change... not the principles.

cer7711

(502 posts)
54. Truth!
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:39 PM
Apr 2016

Let's return to the revolutionary leftist-worker consciousness of the 1930s, the tax policies of the 1950s, and the social justice policies of the . . . well, quite frankly, we're not there yet. (Due to the Republican-led war on women, anti-gay backlash, etc.) Fight on, 99%!

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
56. This^^^!
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 04:56 PM
Apr 2016

It is all about fight on and forever. This is about something more than Bernie. It's the realization, awakening, enlightenment to the fact that all we do must be consistent and moved forward.

This has no end and logically shouldn't because once it disappears, the opposing force grows and rules.

If we want a fair and just society, we must all pitch in and never relent. That is what I'm teaching my child.



 

Oldenuff

(582 posts)
63. It would be GREAT if all our fellow Dems who support Hillary
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:25 PM
Apr 2016

Would turn around and quit trying to bury us.

And DWS...for colluding with the rich in an effort to undermine real change.$

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
64. This is absolutely true, Scuba. Most voters want real Democrats to run the nation.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:20 PM
Apr 2016

They do not want fake ass Democrats that pretend they care.

Bernard has upset the apple cart.

WHEN CRABS ROAR

(3,813 posts)
65. There's a revolution coming.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:33 PM
Apr 2016

And it's up to the ruling class as to what kind it will be.
But it is coming.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
68. I've seen stuff from conservatives claiming Republicans are the party of the working class....
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:56 PM
Apr 2016

Usually portraying Democrats as the party of welfare,...or the elite,....depending on what suits the moment.

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
96. sure... they crash wages then compensate with irresponsible tax cuts.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:15 PM
Apr 2016

And they can market that to their advantage.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
70. Dem's should be about all American'.,not just the working class: Dem's come from all walks of income
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:05 PM
Apr 2016
 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
72. Who are you to complain about what the party has not done: What
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:21 PM
Apr 2016

office have you run for: I am sick of people attacking the Dem
party: Its a wonderful party that has stood up for the people and
delivered.

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
83. Why are you conflating ALL Dems as one?
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 10:51 PM
Apr 2016

The Democratic Party is hardly an entity of one mind. Why are you conflating ALL Dems, corporate, Blue Dog, or progressive, as equally moral? When have ALL Dems tried to rebuild the union movement and end free trade?

Oops.

Sorry. It's been the PROGRESSIVE Dems who have been fighting for the middle and working classes... and the poor... not ALL Dems.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
91. Hillary and.Obama have done the progressive work: the other Dem's
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:01 PM
Apr 2016

are just talkers like Sanders:

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
94. I hardly consider Obama or Hillary to be "Progressives"
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:08 PM
Apr 2016

Not when they have a history of pushing free trade and have contributed to the destruction of unions.

But then even Progressive Dems tend to be too far to the right for me when it comes to finally confronting and reforming our antidemocratic federal system... and reestablishing control over corporations.

My point is from a US perspective... a Bernie Sanders may seem a left wing progressive. But from a European social democratic perspective even a Bernie has right wing tendencies. We just don't call them right wing since the Dems also share the same ideas... that we dare not ever reform our federal system... even if its antidemocratic nature is responsible for much of what Bernie complains about... and we can't launch a counterattack on the corporate form even if it's a creation of government.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
108. Obama's ACA is the biggest progressive action since LBJ:
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:48 PM
Apr 2016

The rest of progressives are big ideologues that
have talked a good game like Sanders without
accomplishments: politics is about what is possible:
not empty wishful tinking.

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
145. cherry picking
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:50 PM
Apr 2016

Sure, one can find a few examples of Obama's liberal policies. But to be called a progressive means looking at all is policies. This doesn't mean those he was blocked from implementing... but those he in good faith pursued... and there the record is hardly as progressive as you present it. He never renegotiated NAFTA as he promised. He instead has pushed for more free trade deals. He refused to prosecute any bankers for imploding the economy. They get to pay fines... using other people's money instead. Unlike FDR who passed Wall Street reforms in 3 months... Dowd Frank took 18... and still was a very weak bill. He never pushed for card check to help rebuild the union movement. And he made permanent most of the irresponsible Bush tax cuts which keeps the Right's Starve The Beast strategy alive.

So on those broad themes... he COULD have been the president who rolled back, or made the moral case to roll back, key elements of the Reagan revolution and didn't. He's helping it become more entrenched.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
155. No cherry picking: five other President tied before hin:
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 04:04 PM
Apr 2016

there is no other bigger progressive action achived by
the Dem's: Obama and Hillary don't talk progressive:like
Sanders: they have progressive accomplishments

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
181. it's cherrypicking because
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 01:43 PM
Apr 2016

I called what you wrote as cherrypicking not because ACA isn't an accomplishment... but because you presented it as proof that Obama was a progressive. To reach that conclusion from ACA alone means you have to sweep under the rug the larger part of Obama's record such as what I mentioned... refusing to jail any Wall Street perps, not pushing for strong Wall Street restructuring, continuing to push free trade, making permanent most of Bush's irresponsible tax cuts... etc.

Obama is a corporate Dem... liberal on social issues and entitlements... but a right wing Dem when it comes to economics and refusing to even talk about making our federal system democratic.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
127. The party rules for the elite and the establishment's benefit need to go. The people need to
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 07:41 AM
Apr 2016

be the only ones who choose their elected officials...bullshit on WY.

yourout

(7,518 posts)
128. As much as I hate to say it...November is shaping up to...
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 08:44 AM
Apr 2016

An epic disaster for us.

The rigging of the system against Bernie is going to completely drive away the youth vote and combined with all the voter suppression tactics spell big trouble.

Get ready for a republican sweep.

The FBI might be the only thing that can save us.

RedCloud

(9,230 posts)
147. Supreme court nominee says it all
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 01:59 PM
Apr 2016

Instead of sticking it to the racists who seek to mock him at every turn, he has to put out a name that will make repukes leap for joy. When has it ever been the other way? When did W* ask the Dems if they were greatly pleased with his "centrist" appointments?

And Bernie is just rehashing Ike's ideas anyway.

That is how far to the right the USA has drifted as far as getting a real shot in life goes.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
148. Yep. I was pulling for a true progressive, which would have made the Republicans wet their pants.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 02:04 PM
Apr 2016

If they blocked him/her they would look like obstructionists, further damaging their chances in November, while handing the pick to the next administration.

The Bernie could re-nominate that jurist, or name someone even more progressive.

dembotoz

(16,708 posts)
151. emphasis on working class....tired of all this middle class bs...hell the walton prob think they are
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 02:19 PM
Apr 2016

middle class

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