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Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:55 AM

When are we ever, as a people, going to start to _try_ to make this country less miserable

and a happier place to live?

We slave away, with little to no vacation, we pay the equivalent of the cost of a very expensive new car for every kids' education (or the cost of a house, depending on where they go), our economic lives are ruined if we get sick, our rich commit crimes with no consequence, and our corporations write the rules that govern our daily existence.

Meanwhile, in France, Germany, Scandinavia, and many other places, people are much more free to pursue their happiness, raise their families, have excellent educations, and simply _exist_ without having to go begging to their corporate overlords at every turn.

The slavery mindset that is this country's original sin has never left our bloodstream, from the desire for cheap/free/forced labor that fires every employer's imagination, to the servile mentality of our workers.

Cmon, let's stand up on our hind legs and demand better. The humans and the pigs are getting harder and harder to tell apart.

186 replies, 12863 views

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Reply When are we ever, as a people, going to start to _try_ to make this country less miserable (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 OP
AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #1
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #2
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #4
LiberalArkie Apr 2016 #29
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #90
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #93
Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #96
Kittycat Apr 2016 #151
RKP5637 Apr 2016 #106
robbob Apr 2016 #127
RKP5637 Apr 2016 #132
trof Apr 2016 #133
Kablooie Apr 2016 #160
malthaussen Apr 2016 #164
Bad Dog Apr 2016 #168
floriduck Apr 2016 #3
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #5
brooklynite Apr 2016 #6
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #8
brooklynite Apr 2016 #11
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #12
brooklynite Apr 2016 #14
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #17
brooklynite Apr 2016 #19
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #20
SusanLarson Apr 2016 #52
vkkv Apr 2016 #58
Sunlei Apr 2016 #59
vkkv Apr 2016 #71
vkkv Apr 2016 #72
Sunlei Apr 2016 #78
sammythecat Apr 2016 #70
raouldukelives Apr 2016 #162
KPN Apr 2016 #105
Skittles Apr 2016 #135
Nay Apr 2016 #138
rhett o rick Apr 2016 #10
jeff47 Apr 2016 #18
treestar Apr 2016 #82
jeff47 Apr 2016 #111
840high Apr 2016 #22
rhett o rick Apr 2016 #24
840high Apr 2016 #39
AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #27
My Good Babushka Apr 2016 #28
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #31
malaise Apr 2016 #36
Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #37
JDPriestly Apr 2016 #57
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #74
zalinda Apr 2016 #120
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #183
zalinda Apr 2016 #184
JDPriestly Apr 2016 #134
Gene Debs Apr 2016 #80
Human101948 Apr 2016 #91
lakeguy Apr 2016 #99
moonbeam23 Apr 2016 #107
Stargazer99 Apr 2016 #108
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #122
tenderfoot Apr 2016 #125
bread_and_roses Apr 2016 #175
Odin2005 May 2016 #186
Wounded Bear Apr 2016 #7
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #9
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #15
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #61
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2016 #117
MisterP Apr 2016 #41
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #67
jeff47 Apr 2016 #13
Matrosov Apr 2016 #16
HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #40
moonbeam23 Apr 2016 #115
alarimer Apr 2016 #21
jwirr Apr 2016 #23
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #25
Enthusiast Apr 2016 #94
mrdmk Apr 2016 #155
CrispyQ Apr 2016 #26
My Good Babushka Apr 2016 #30
Nay Apr 2016 #48
Enthusiast Apr 2016 #97
Nay Apr 2016 #137
ladjf Apr 2016 #32
Cryptoad Apr 2016 #33
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #42
Nay Apr 2016 #49
Cryptoad Apr 2016 #81
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #129
treestar Apr 2016 #87
llmart Apr 2016 #136
treestar Apr 2016 #85
Cryptoad Apr 2016 #95
zalinda Apr 2016 #123
Nay Apr 2016 #140
passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #145
tabasco Apr 2016 #34
Octafish Apr 2016 #35
CrispyQ Apr 2016 #38
LittleGirl Apr 2016 #156
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #43
MrScorpio Apr 2016 #44
Phlem Apr 2016 #45
Sunlei Apr 2016 #46
Phlem Apr 2016 #47
Sunlei Apr 2016 #50
Phlem Apr 2016 #56
Sunlei Apr 2016 #62
Phlem Apr 2016 #65
Sunlei Apr 2016 #76
vkkv Apr 2016 #51
Oneironaut Apr 2016 #86
vkkv Apr 2016 #98
zalinda Apr 2016 #126
vkkv Apr 2016 #130
zalinda Apr 2016 #131
nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #148
redstatebluegirl Apr 2016 #53
yuiyoshida Apr 2016 #54
modestybl Apr 2016 #55
mwooldri Apr 2016 #60
Scuba Apr 2016 #63
Phlem Apr 2016 #69
LibDemAlways Apr 2016 #64
Phlem Apr 2016 #66
antigop Apr 2016 #68
The2ndWheel Apr 2016 #75
mountain grammy Apr 2016 #73
romanic Apr 2016 #77
Scarsdale Apr 2016 #79
Oneironaut Apr 2016 #83
treestar Apr 2016 #88
carolinayellowdog Apr 2016 #84
blm Apr 2016 #89
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #92
TIME TO PANIC Apr 2016 #100
felix_numinous Apr 2016 #101
carolinayellowdog Apr 2016 #109
Arugula Latte Apr 2016 #102
northernsouthern Apr 2016 #103
RKP5637 Apr 2016 #104
SalviaBlue Apr 2016 #110
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #112
carolinayellowdog Apr 2016 #113
SalviaBlue Apr 2016 #118
Punx Apr 2016 #114
carolinayellowdog Apr 2016 #116
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #119
steve2470 Apr 2016 #121
Festivito Apr 2016 #124
ViseGrip Apr 2016 #128
babylonsister Apr 2016 #139
NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #141
Hotler Apr 2016 #142
Plucketeer Apr 2016 #143
Ilsa Apr 2016 #144
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #165
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #171
Maedhros Apr 2016 #146
Depaysement Apr 2016 #147
McCamy Taylor Apr 2016 #149
Paka Apr 2016 #150
CarrieLynne Apr 2016 #152
whereisjustice Apr 2016 #153
KT2000 Apr 2016 #154
anniebelle Apr 2016 #157
eShirl Apr 2016 #158
secondwind Apr 2016 #159
Progressive dog Apr 2016 #161
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #166
Progressive dog Apr 2016 #173
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #176
Progressive dog Apr 2016 #177
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #178
Progressive dog Apr 2016 #180
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #181
Progressive dog May 2016 #185
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #167
Progressive dog Apr 2016 #172
sinkingfeeling Apr 2016 #163
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #169
randome Apr 2016 #170
w0nderer Apr 2016 #174
ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #179
Jitter65 Apr 2016 #182

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:57 AM

1. I cannot recommend this enough, short and to the point...

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:58 AM

2. Never. Wishing the worst for your neighbor is a uniquely american value. n/t

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:11 AM

4. that is an excellent, and sad, way to put it.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:20 AM

29. I have to agree. NEVER. We as a people have to feel that we are superior to the person next to us.

From an early Bernie speech which explains it.

“They told white workers who were earning pennies an hour, ‘Hey, you think you’re in trouble, but you’re better off than the blacks,'” he said. “And they told straight people, ‘You’re better off than those gay people.’ And they pitted men against women. It’s always playing one group against another. That’s how the rich got richer while everybody else was fighting each other. Our job is to build a nation in which we all stand together.”

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:19 PM

90. absolutely

I read something fairly compelling which explains why the lower income white population supports the GOP.
We on the left think that they are making irrational decisions voting against their own interests.

But there's reason to believe that they are getting their 'value' from the GOP.
The GOP creates targets for these people to feel superior to.
And the not being the bottom of the social barrel is rewarding to them.
Its their self-esteem.

We have an amazing ability to demean each other.
You can see it here on DU.
I"m a real democrat, you're a DINO or a republican.
You're a neoliberal.
You're destroying the world.

The PTB delight in our inability to see our common humanity.
As long as we are at each others throats, we aren't bothering them.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #90)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:26 PM

93. It's not just the GOP

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #93)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:39 PM

96. I see it too

I keeping hoping its outsiders trying to wreck havoc...
but sadly I think that is only part of the explanation.
We have no respect for differences of opinion.

Anyone who disagrees with ME, is a hopelessly flawed excuse for a human being

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #96)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:58 PM

151. There's so much hatred behind those

Free stuff comments. It hurts. When you genuinely want to try and find a way to make things better. When you have friends that left this country, and say holy shit - the grass isn't greener, it's golden. We should at least try, not pound each other down with nasty "free stuff" comments, devoid of critical thinking or effort to communicate. Filled with the intent to just give up and go home.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:19 PM

106. Sadly, it is in this obscene win/lose society in the US. People feel good about winning and others

losing. It is the height of ignorant capitalism. FFS, just a brief look at the wealth distribution curves should startle all of Americans, but it seeming falls on death ears.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #106)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:48 PM

127. I remember the NIKE commercial

...right before the LA Olympics, I believe, where the catch line was something about the silver medal just meant you were the first "loser" in the race. I.e. nothing matters except coming in first.

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Response to robbob (Reply #127)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 04:12 PM

132. It's just absolutely disgusting what the US has become. n/t

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:22 PM

133. Very clever sig image.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:02 AM

160. Many Americans are willing to sacrifice so that others will suffer more.

Their "Christian" values make them proud to sacrifice their own happiness in order to bring more misery to those they disagree with.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:53 AM

164. If it were "uniquely American," then...

... the Germans would not have found it necessary to invent the word "schadenfreude."

Typical, I'll grant you. Unique, hardly.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #164)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:11 AM

168. The Germans may have invented the word.

But it took Americans to write a song about it.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:04 AM

3. Excellent post, Professor. nm

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:14 AM

5. Most Americand don't know this

 

About them European socialist (RRRUUUNNN!!!!) countries.

Propaganda is effective and media keeps that wall up. Though McPravda is believed less and less so we do have hope. The seeds are there. They are laying root. We might not see it though

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:22 AM

6. Hyperbole is not your friend...

Here in New York; the restaurants are buzzing; there are lines for Broadway and off-broadway shows; there are people playing softball in the parks; people are shopping for things that you would not call "essentials". I'm not disputing that there is a segment of the population that's struggling, but "miserable" is a bit over the top.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:32 AM

8. How fortunate for you that your bubble shields you from

the deprivations and desperation of your fellows.

I'm glad that Manhattan is doing well, and that it successfully hides the problems of the economic also-rans from your eyes.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:42 AM

11. I said nothing about Manhattan...

...I live in a neighborhood with a significant share of rental apartments, next to a working class muslim area, and just down the street from from working class African American retail. I go to restaurants where the entrees are under $20 and ride the subway with just about everybody. Sorry I don't meet up with your stereotypes.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:44 AM

12. Most lines for Broadway shows are found in Manhattan, no?

Sorry I mis-located your bubble.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:46 AM

14. Have you ever looked at the crowd for most Broadway shows today?

The top-hats and gowns were retired 50 years ago. Most attendees are middle class tourists from Iowa.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:50 AM

17. Your point, again? that some people in the country have some disposable income?

I do not dispute that.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:52 AM

19. But that's my point. "Miserable" suggests a far higher level of struggle than I think is the case.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:56 AM

20. "than I think is the case."

Again, how fortunate for you.

And I'm asking that things be made "less miserable". Not stating that _everything_ _is_ miserable.

But to the extant that there is misery, and you'd be a fool to argue that there is none, we should work together to lessen it.

If things are fine for you today, again, that's great for you.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:05 PM

52. And now you know...

 

...how they could support Hillary Clinton! LOL!

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Response to SusanLarson (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:14 PM

58. Spot on! ~nt

 

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Response to SusanLarson (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:18 PM

59. So who do you suggest Ds 'support' if Mrs. Clinton is the nominee?



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Response to Sunlei (Reply #59)


Response to Sunlei (Reply #59)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:51 PM

72. The lesser of two evils, obviously, what did you think? nt

 

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Response to vkkv (Reply #72)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:00 PM

78. I don't think Mrs. Clinton is 'evil' so are you still on the 'Bernie or Bust' platform or aTrumpite?

?

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Response to SusanLarson (Reply #52)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:43 PM

70. Just what I was thinking

while reading this little exchange. The connection came immediately to mind.

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Response to SusanLarson (Reply #52)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:46 AM

162. Yep. nt

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:15 PM

105. I think you are missing the forest for the trees.

While calling the nation as a whole "miserable" is hyperbolic, the sad truth is we are in a deep decline with no bottom at site, we have many more living below the poverty line than ever before, college is prohibitively costly and for all intents and purposes inaccessible for many, the same is still true re: health care, better paying jobs are being replaced with lesser paying jobs or not at all, many millions of people work two or more jobs with no benefits and no vacations. So we are actually talking probably 100 million or more people in comparatively miserable shape economically and lifestyle-wise. That is not hyperbolic, that is just plain fact.

The OP has a legitimate point. It's just that some of us care about the point and too many still do not or not enough to call for drastic change. Instead they prefer their comfort zone aka status quo.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 06:11 PM

135. you must not get out much

I see many people struggling

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Response to Skittles (Reply #135)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 06:21 PM

138. he " must not get out much" indeed. We recently drove from the east coast

through southern states out to Montana. The state of the small cities and towns is just unbelievable. We saw whole small towns that had fallen into near-ruin, where even a burned-out house was not torn down and removed. I just can't even describe how ruined everything looks out there.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:36 AM

10. Ahhh the rationalization for letting Wall Street run our government.

 

I see struggling every day. People out of work not finding jobs. College graduates working for min wage with no hope for home ownership or retirement. I work at a foodbank and the numbers are growing and the donations (from the working class) are dying. We see more and more people living on the streets and in there cars and temporary tent cities. And it's much worse elsewhere like Detroit and Flint. A couple very close to me lost their home. You may not think that is miserable but they do. When you lose a house your credit is ruined and it's very difficult to find a rental. But I guess as long as you aren't miserable you can pretend no one is.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:50 AM

18. Well, his income comes from Wall Street

So this Upton Sinclair quote comes into play:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:08 PM

82. Would that not apply to everyone?

Are there not a lot of people employed by business enterprises?

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Response to treestar (Reply #82)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:30 PM

111. Wall street is not all "business enterprises".

He's posted in the past that his wife is a lawyer for a firm on Wall Street, so he literally relies on Wall Street for income.

My income comes from my employer, which is not a stock market/commodities market/financial investment/etc firm. If Wall Street gets regulated again, it does not harm my income.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:00 AM

22. My daughter has been looking

 

for work - any work - for past two years.

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Response to 840high (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:08 AM

24. It's very hard out there especially for the 40 -50 year olds. No one will hire them. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:43 AM

39. Yes - she's 50.

 

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:15 AM

27. someone needs a visit from the spirits, past, present, future....

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:17 AM

28. And yet suicide rates

are at a 30 year high.

I don't have to rely on my opinions or unique thoughts or perspective. That's straight from the CDC.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db241.htm

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Response to My Good Babushka (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:22 AM

31. Thanks for that

don't know how to respond to that lunacy, and I appreciate the data.

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Response to My Good Babushka (Reply #28)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:34 AM

36. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:35 AM

37. just because you don't see us, doesn't mean we aren't here (and reading your words)

Next time you leave your house, please come back and post the exact count of homeless people you saw while out, extra points if you have to actually step over them.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:13 PM

57. New York is where those who got the cream from the top of the sour milk in 2008 live.

New York is Wall Street. We out here are on Main Street where. None or next to none of the Wall Street cream flowed down to us.

So if you are feeling good in New York, just stop and think about why.

The problem is disparity in wealth, not lack of growth in the economy.

Wealthy people and wealthy areas of the country are flourishing. That's what the fuss is about.

I can see that in Los Angeles. One side of the city does well and has wonderful shopping malls while my side of the city -- no fancy shopping mall at all -- just little dollar store type outlets.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #57)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:52 PM

74. Which is also how the US grew to what it did in the 20th century

5%(or less than 5%, either way) of the human population using 25% of the world's resources. The US has had the wealth disparity funnel working on its side in relation to other countries too. Then we complain about jobs being outsourced, as though a job is somehow "American", even though the wealth is at least somewhat spreading to more people around the world. What little of it they may get, $3 is still more than $1.

White men in America aren't as needed as they were in the 1950's, and Americans in general aren't as needed as they were in previous years. We're seeing the decreased need for people to get a job done anywhere in the world. There are people building machines to specifically put you out of a job. We're all in it together, but at the same time, people are looking out for themselves too.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #74)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:22 PM

120. So you are saying that companies should be able to do anything they want?

If something is sold in America, it should damn well pay taxes in America. If the main company is in America they should damn well be hiring Americans to fill the jobs. You wonder why there is a downward spiral? It's because instead of companies paying wages that would support a family, they pay wages that would barely support a single person. If only one person in the family had to work, look how many jobs there would be available.

Companies closing doors all over the country because they can't make any money? If they paid their employees enough money to buy the products, maybe the doors would stay open. People only like cheap products because they don't have the money to buy the good stuff. Dollar stores are doing bang up business, so Sears starts selling cheap crap to 'compete' and now they are closing so many stores so fast that I'll be surprised if they are in business in a year. They didn't raise their employee salaries, they even changed their Craftsman line of tools, which were prized by so many DIY people, they did themselves in.

American COMPANIES are raping the rest of the world, it's not Americans, or white men.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #120)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:33 AM

183. I try to stay away from should's

Should is a personal and emotional word.

I'm saying there's pressure from all sides. There are more people on the planet today than ever before, and business has more access to more people around the world than ever before. Added to that pressure is the increasing automation of this or that task.

Unless you bring something extra to the table, any given individual is just needed less by society.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #183)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:45 AM

184. Try telling that to people who have been

replaced with foreign workers. Not only were they replaced, but in most cases they have to train their replacements.

I'm not a protectionist, but there should be certain rules for government and corporations. Government should not be able to hire foreign workers when there are American workers that can do the job. All government contractors should use American workers on their government contract. It is the American worker that keeps the government going.

I know you can't make jobs, so everyone can have a job. But, corporations with CEO's that have HUGE salaries and stock options, should not be hiring foreign workers to replace American workers. And, it goes without saying, that these CEO's and corporations should be paying their fair share when it comes to taxes.

Z

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #74)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 05:25 PM

134. Back in the 19th and early 20th century, we were a developing country, and there

was lots of demand for the production of our manufacturing, much of it in our own country.

Now, we still have a lot of demand, but instead of satisfying that demand with products manufactured or produced by our own labor in our own country, we buy a lot of cheap stuff, much of it rather poorly made -- junk if you will.

That is hurting not just our economy but our ability to be self-sufficient. It is destroying the greatest treasure we have -- the skills of our workers who are passing hamburgers instead of making things we need or want.

"Free" trade is very costly for Americans.

Let the Chinese make stuff and sell it to themselves. Let us make stuff and sell it to ourselves. Nothing wrong with trade, but there is something wrong when imports are such a large portion of products bought in a country of our size.

Yes. Automation is displacing workers too. But the benefits of automation should be more widely shared by our society. Instead of being of benefit to all of us, automation has become a tool with which people who could be contributing a great deal to our society are pushed to the side and impoverished, slowly but surely.

A fairer tax system that spreads the wealth not directly but through programs like free tuition at state schools, free pre-school for every child (common in Europe) from the age of three up, single payer insurance and other programs that Bernie Sanders is the answer.

Those who have and earn high salaries or profits should pay more and higher taxes. Otherwise the existing trend of very, very high and increasingly high disparity of wealth will become a social problem, a serious one.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:02 PM

80. I live in New York, too, and neither I nor any of the people I associate with on a daily basis

 

can afford to go to Broadway shows or shop for non-essentials. But then I guess i don't live in the same bubble that you seem to. I see miserable people every day.

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Response to Gene Debs (Reply #80)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:23 PM

91. Average cost of a Broadway ticket passes $100 for the first time

 

For the last five seasons, the average price of a Broadway ticket has climbed 34%. The price of a movie ticket nationwide rose 10.8% in roughly the same period from 2008 to 2013, according to data from the National Assn. of Theatre Owners.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-et-cm-broadway-ticket-prices-20140610-story.html

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:46 PM

99. Exhibit A...

some people can buy stuff not necessary to sustain life, so everything is ok.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:20 PM

107. With all due respect

perhaps you should leave NY for a minute and check out the rural West...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:22 PM

108. Your post makes me madder than hell

So, there is no such misery! How about an adult daughter that died due to lack of MEDICAL care while working? Because her employer did not have medical...she died from a condition that could have been taken care of by RX. She left a 141/2 daughter without a mother....yeah no misery.
All my children's lives growing up didn't have sufficient dental care because our employers didn't have dental coverage and wages did not cover rent, food, car repairs, etc beyond those items
We all suffer from dental problems-but I guess those problems don't exist in your world
INSUFFICIENT WAGES or welfare
Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist
I hate this country I was born in...developed Europe would have been a hellva lot kinder to this underclass person

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:33 PM

122. Hmm you need to get out off that bubble

 

We cover poverty issues. It is really desperate out there

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:38 PM

125. It must be awesome being you

Bet you can afford the rent in NYC too.

Look at you! Aren't you just the most!




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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:28 AM

175. OMFG - get our of NYC and come drive around upstate

Drive through the Southern Tier, where I live. Go to Binghamton, where school lunches are free for everyone because the child poverty rate is so high. Or to Utica - I think they're poverty rate was highest. Or go to PA and drive southwest from Pittsburgh, where the once-substantial-working-class small towns have devolved into urban wastelands.

Or maybe just read something about what's going on in the vast stretches of this country left out and left behind. Just this AM I read a story about THOUSANDS of people lining up for a free health care clinic in LA - they expect 10,000 people in 2 1/2 days - people who can't afford dentists, glasses - oh, and btw, some are insured under our wonderful Obamacare - but they can't afford the co-pays and deductibles.

Does that not sound like misery to you?

If not, what does it take to get your attention? Literal starvation?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)

Mon May 2, 2016, 04:59 PM

186. Holy shit, get out of your privileged bubble.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:22 AM

7. Miserable is good...

keeps wages down and profits up. Makes it really easy to misdirect people's anger to meaningless bullshit like gender bathroom regulation and pump up the guns/god/gays coalition, who don't seem to really want anything fixed because they apparently need someone to be pissed at and the reality of who really is fucking them over is kind of irrelevant to them.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:36 AM

9. Every country has a different history

As you say, there's the slavery mindset. Alright, and there's also a let's move out of where we were(Europe) mindset. We have a population of 300+ million people, connected by, really nothing. Outside of paying taxes, what's the collective thread of America? You can be whoever you want to be. Social mobility. As soon as you can, pack up and find a new and better place to live. One way or another, you've got to be out of the house at 18, sink or swim. That's not all corporate overlords telling us to do that.

Germany has a German language. France has the French language. There is no American language. When you think of people in India or China, you have a decent idea of what they look like. Americans don't really have a look, because we have people from everywhere here. I can't imagine there are too many kids born in, again let's say China, from two American parents. Whatever it is that Americans are. I would imagine there are more kids born in America from two Chinese parents though, and then those kids grow up to be Americans. Whatever it is that Americans are.

In some ways, we might be too diverse. Too many interests fighting back and forth. Find something that people can agree on, some sort of connection, and maybe then we can try to make this country whatever you want it to be. We Americans don't agree on too much though, up to and including what we want this country to be.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:47 AM

15. Nah, that's a negative way to spin our greatest strength, our diversity and tolerance

We're like a big Star Trek cast full of people from different backgrounds and cultures who (could, should) work together towards common goals. Our big national tent should be our greatest asset, instead it is turned against us.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:24 PM

61. Well Star Trek is also a fictional TV show

Life isn't quite that easy.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:01 PM

117. They keep us fighting amongst ourselves

 

So we don't pay attention to what is going on.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:47 AM

41. Canada does all that Europe does with a near-civil war on its hands for several decades ...

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Response to MisterP (Reply #41)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:40 PM

67. True, and the context of every country is different

Iraq has the same size population as Canada, but it doesn't function as a single unit, so one size doesn't fit all. The US has a population closer to the size of the biggest developing countries, but with a developed economy. That's a somewhat unique set of circumstances. Japan is an island with the 10th largest population, but the 61st largest land area, with an aging population, and isn't big on immigration.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:46 AM

13. In about 10-20 years.

The "you can never possibly make it better" folks will be leaving the voter pool as time takes its toll. Which will stop their efforts to hold back "generation screwed".

Unfortunately, that also means we lose most of Florida to the ocean, as well as massive droughts, floods and famine. But it's very, very important to only address these issues incrementally, and only via public-private partnerships. The people on the TV tell me so over and over and over and over again, so it must be true!!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:50 AM

16. We live to work

 

A friend of mine who has lived on both sides of the Atlantic once said 'Europeans work to live, Americans live to work.'

Many people think ours is a better system, that Europeans have it 'too good' with their free time, vacation time, sick leave, etc, and that it puts a strain on the European economies.

The idea that what is good for corporate America is good for everyone is too deeply ingrained in our society.

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Response to Matrosov (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:45 AM

40. Plantation Mentality/Protestant Work Ethic.

It's KILLING us . . .. spiritually, mentally and economically.

Nobody has free time to do anything except go to work, eat, go home & clean varied messes and go to bed.

At LEAST have a mandated five weeks vacation. AT LEAST offer new mothers a year paid maternity leave. AT LEAST GET UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. There is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER we cannot do this other than we're a selfish greedy bunch of violence-centric "rugged individualists" whose life MUST BE BETTER than someone else's. It's far more important to us that those we deem economically and socially inferior NOT get these things than EVERYONE get them.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #40)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:47 PM

115. You win!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:58 AM

21. Never, as long as the vested interests keep us divided.

You have Democrats, right here on this board, in this very thread, denying that this is even happening. But it has been happening for decades. It started with Reagan, but accelerated under Clinton and has not stopped since. NAFTA, welfare "reform", mass incarceration- all committed by Bill Clinton. Other triangulators (those in Congress) are also responsible.

But mostly it's because the Democratic Party has strayed from the New Deal in a big way. I think that's what Bernie has been trying to highlight, but I'm afraid it has fallen on deaf ears. The Democratic Party has fallen into the austerity mindset. We can't do those things (single payer, for instance) because it costs too much, when the reality is that they just don't have the guts to pursue it.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:06 AM

23. And unfortunately a big share of the country has just voted

for status quo.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:08 AM

25. that's right, and the strange reality is that not only do they not cost too much

they actually cost less than what we are currently doing. We could do right by people and save money at the same time.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:31 PM

94. Bernie has done an excellent job highlighting the problems with the Democratic Party.

But just look what he is up against.

He is up against a massive entrenched powerful united media, an anti New-Deal Democratic Party, the entitled corporations, a financial sector that is rewarded for destroying nations, a military that exists solely to profit a few at the expense of millions and a health care system that absolutely sucks unless you measure its accomplishments by how much money it profits a few pirates.

These Assholes® are united with the purpose of holding onto their undeserved largess. They won't even pay taxes. Now the New Democratic Party behaves as if Grover Norquist is one of their own.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #94)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 03:35 AM

155. Been holding that in and slightly vexed lately?

These Assholes® are united with the purpose of holding onto their undeserved largess. They won't even pay taxes. Now the New Democratic Party behaves as if Grover Norquist is one of their own.


It is nothing short of strange that a person that hold Henry Kissinger in such high regard (the man can no longer travel the world because of his actions) is considered the best candidate when the world is on fire.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:12 AM

26. "Where to Invade Next" by Michael Moore.

An excellent movie that I recommend everyone go see.

on edit: Toward the end of the movie he was talking to three women from Iceland. The one woman said, "I would never move to American. You don't care for each other." She nailed it. We don't. We take pleasure in seeing our neighbors suffer. When we find out that union employees make more money, we don't say, "Hey I want that too," we say, "Hey, someone should do something about that!"

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #26)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:20 AM

30. A sadistic people

to be sure. As I'm reminded my every debate about raising the minimum wage. It is more important for some to do worse than for all to do better.

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Response to My Good Babushka (Reply #30)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:02 PM

48. This is my take on it in a nutshell. Americans are sadistic, seething with

anger that some poor kid used their tax money to eat; that a person who eats a Twinkie has the NERVE to want tax money for socialistic healthcare; I could go on, but I won't.

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Response to Nay (Reply #48)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:40 PM

97. America is that way because that narrative was culitivated by the far right media.

America never before had an entire media network dedicated to promoting greed, cruelty and intolerance.

Thousands of radio stations and Fox "News" pummels the unwary with far right dogma every day.

And yet we could still defeat the powers of darkness but for a complicit Democratic Party.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #97)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 06:14 PM

137. Yeah, I know. That's why I said "I could go on, but I won't." It's not like TPTB

don't KNOW this; it's that they don't care. They like us at each other's throats.

Back in the 90's, a hate-filled group set the Hutus and the Tutsis at each other just by passing out thousands of audio tapes of hate speeches. As I've said many times here, propaganda works, and the Dems better get on the stick. But, for some reason, they don't want to even try.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:22 AM

32. Maybe never. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:29 AM

33. Want to make this country less Miserable??????

get out and vote!. take control of control of Congress away from our biggest problem,,,,, the GOP. ,,,,,,, and a cut it off at the pass,~~~~ u do not have control of Congress unless us have 60 votes in the Senate and simple majority of the House!

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:47 AM

42. great advice

now only if we could overcome the gerrymandering (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of it), the voter suppression (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of that), the overwhelming power of corporate money in politics (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of that), and electronic voting machines (and the Democrats' apathetic acceptance of that) and we'll be all set to change things.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:03 PM

49. GOD. ++++ a million. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:06 PM

81. Apathetic,,??

if u dont have the votes to prevent stuff,,,, it has nothing to do with being apathetic
none those things list boil down to Democrats not being able to stop or reform without the votes to do it.... so sit on the Prof throne and blame apathy, it doesn't change the facts.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #81)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:50 PM

129. Just what, on earth, are you trying to say?

I'll let you know when I see any top party Democrats fighting in earnest against any of these things, all of which make it nearly impossible to actually vote out the Republicans. If you can wake them from their drowsy sleep on these issues, please do so.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #42)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:12 PM

87. If we voted for our local senator and representatives

state offices, and paid attention to them too, that would not have happened.

We let the right wing take the state houses and governorships all the while concentrating on the presidency at the be all and end all and all we need.

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Response to treestar (Reply #87)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 06:11 PM

136. I think you make the best point yet.

Most people who are inclined to vote or follow a political process only do so in the "big one"; i.e., presidential races. Then the rest of the time they ignore the little, local community or even state contests thinking it's too small to create any significant change. I maintain that it is even more important to follow what's going on in your local communities and races and then your statehouse.

I have been so disheartened by the vitriol on DU of Bernie vs. Hillary. If either one were to become the President, we have seen in the past that they can have the best of intentions of making dramatic changes in our culture, but the President is not a supreme ruler. There's the Congress and a legislative process that is in place and their desires and promises can be squashed in a heartbeat and never come to fruition.

I came of age in the '60's - quintessential baby boomer - and most of the radical changes that took place in that decade were the result of grass roots involvement driven by real, everyday people, not the President. The powers that be only got on board when it looked like the majority of people were going to demand the changes and that their re-election chances would be slim to none if they didn't get on board.

Bernie speaks for an awful lot of people, but if he doesn't get the nomination it doesn't mean that the passion of his followers can't be continued on in other ways. If he loses, are all of the Bernie supporters just going to throw up their hands and go away sulking? If you truly believe in his principles then continue on.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:11 PM

85. I was just thinking that

with all the posts accusing Hillary of "no we can't" - why not "yes we can" take back Congress? Instead of sulking that you have to win us over if Bernie loses and some saying they refuse to vote for Hillary. Then work on getting Congress back - yes we can! Haven't seen any such sentiments. Yet that would do a lot more to get a progressive agenda passed.

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Response to treestar (Reply #85)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:37 PM

95. What makes my ass want a pinch of snuff,,,,,

is when the Bern Camp, Blame Democrats for GOP crap, democrats are powerless to change without the votes to pass reform.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #95)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:36 PM

123. No, Democrats are powerless to change

without taking money out of the process. The Democratic Party chooses the candidates not the people. And, if you don't believe it, give a shout out to DU about all the people who got stopped by the Democratic Party. Hell, ask Ned Lamont.

The Hillary crowd have their heads in the sand if they don't think that party politics isn't alive in well in the 21st century. They might as well bring back the smoke filled rooms, because that's where everything is decided anyway.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Bern Camp. Just open your eyes. If it was so easy, running for office, don't you think more people would do it? Hell, politicians get a ton of perks, even after they leave office. Better than any average Joe or Jane Doe's retirement package.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #123)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 06:37 PM

140. Thank you. I've endlessly repeated the story of here in VA, where Cantor

had a credible Dem challenger a few years ago, and he was unable to pry ONE THIN DIME from the Dem leadership. Oh, you say, they didn't want to waste money on a Dem candidate that would never win against Cantor.

Aha! Then a totally unknown Tea Party candidate, a complete doofus named Brat, unseats Cantor in the Pub primary! and now the Dem leadership is excited to run a Dem against this unknown doofus, right?? Right?? Wrong. The sane Democrat who ran against Brat didn't get ONE THIN DIME from the leadership. Brat got $10 million from his Pub leadership. YOU tell ME what's wrong with this fuckin' picture.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #33)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:26 PM

145. the GOP are a problem, but our number one problem is money in politics

What was that quote up above?

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair


It isn't just the GOP that aren't doing the will of the people. It's Dems too...because their salary and their donations that help them keep their jobs, and the potential for lucrative jobs after they quit congress...all depend on them not understanding (or caring about) what we need.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:30 AM

34. Not until the country breaks up into smaller nations, I'm afraid.

 

With our federal system that gives equal senate power to sovereign states with a million people and those with 40 million people, the status quo is protected and progress will be nil or geological.

Sometimes, I wish we had negotiated a breakaway for the South. But the scourge of slavery would have continued at least another generation.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:31 AM

35. Once we have supermajorities in both Houses of Congress and a landslide Pony.

Sorry...hands typed that on their own.

What you wrote, ProfessorPlum: Thank you. It is Pure Gold.

PS: Have you seen Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next?"

The film is amazing. You will cry, seeing the stuff you believe in made plain as day.

In Italy, people work to live...In Germany, workers are part of management...In Iceland, banksters go to jail (thank you, William K. Black)...In Finland, kids go to school to learn how to learn...

My wife and I saw it in February. We're still talking about it.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:42 AM

38. A friend & I saw it about a month ago & I'd like to see it again.

I loved when MM was talking to the Italian couple & the woman says she would love to move to America. Then MM says, "Do you know how many vacation hours companies are legally required to give their American employees?" She shook her head. "Zero," he said. They literally did not believe him at first.

See the movie people!

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #38)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:34 AM

156. Yep, remember it well. the looks on their faces

were classic - no way!

yes, way.

loved the movie.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:48 AM

43. can't wait to see it

thank you for the recommendation

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

44. Do you want the long answer or the short answer?

If you want the long answer, you're going to have to wait awhile for it.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

45. Our education system sucks (k-12) and people can't either

find the time or have it in themselves to educate themselves.

We're voting for another Thirdway Corporatist for the Third time expecting different results.

Gigantic clue about our US citizens education and logic abilities.

I don't know what else to say.



The field I work in requires continual education because technology continues to evolve. I resigned to myself a long time ago that education carries on and never stops until you die. So learning about stuff is basically all I do everyday. It's the only way I can make a livable wage and support my family. Unfortunately I have to freelance as my job was offshored when Bill was president around the same time NAFTA was signed. The infernal frustration I have is now I'm supposed to vote for Hillary, a contributor to the TPP because it's the only way?

Yea, I don't deal with BS either. One can't pull that shit working with math programmers for 15+ years so logic has been burned into me and I can't help it anymore.

PS. I had the chance to talk with some foreign exchange students and they say pretty much they don't come here for K-12 but for the colleges, you know, the kind people in America can barely afford.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:52 AM

46. It is Congresses job to raise the Federal minimum wage to $15. Americans have to stop electing Repub

Republican assholes who spend HALF of OUR Federal revenue on their 'for profit' 'defense/wars and prisons'.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #46)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:56 AM

47. Some of those Republicans wear Democrat suits.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #47)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

50. I know but a good start is to not elect Republicans. The worst has come from them.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #50)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:10 PM

56. Been doin it since before 2005.

Nothing seems to be changing and things are slowly getting worse and worse.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #56)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:25 PM

62. Yup, more and more of OUR Federal funds go into 'for profit' private pockets.

Our country, our people would have been in much worse shape today without Obama chipping away at ALL the damage.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #62)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:38 PM

65. Yup.

Chin up and fight on Sunlei.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #65)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:57 PM

76. Thanks, you too!

Enough miserable people time, now it's on to persistently, nicely-nag Mrs. Clinton to make Sanders her VP.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

51. BERNIE SANDERS: "Poor people don't vote".

 

Why is that?

No self-value? Lost all hope? Laziness?

I get irked from top to bottom.

Locally: Litterbugs, developers, people who cheat the system like those who park close to store entrances in the Blue Zones then get out of their car and walk and shop just as able as anyone without a handi-cap sticker. (I'm a very healthy I might add and even comment to a-holes who I see leave their Blue Zone cars and walk just fine - yes, I get in their faces.)

Statewide: Those who dis California for being a high tax state, do everything they can to pay less taxes and still can't understand why so many f'ing people want to live here. So LEAVE already...

Nationally: Poor voters and Red Staters who vote against their own best interests.

We've got a lot problems even before looking at the many environmental disasters heading our way...

"Demand better"? That's not going to do it. Voters have to TURN OUT TO VOTE to be heard.






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Response to vkkv (Reply #51)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:11 PM

86. Because voting is on a Tuesday, and they don't have the luxury.

If you're working 2 or 3 jobs (including on the weekend), there is no free time. Politicians often point to this sort of "work ethic" as "admirable." I see it as perverse - it shows how little this country cares about its underclass.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #86)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:45 PM

98. Mail-in ballots, absentee ballots.. there are other options, but yes, if one isn't all that

 

motivated to vote, our system makes it very easy to skip out on.

I wish that the Dem majority congress with Obama's first year in office had passed a law for a voter holiday and / or a four day open polling schedule.

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Response to vkkv (Reply #98)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:47 PM

126. A number of states require a reason for absentee ballots

and missing work for some is not a valid reason, they will tell you that the polls are open early and close late so you should be able to make it there to vote.

Or sometimes, life gets in the way. You know like bills, child emergencies, finding a job, finding food etc. Or just maybe nothing fucking changes whether you vote or not. Obama may have done something for you, but not for me or any one that I know. Our lives pretty much still sucks, if not gotten worse since he became President. If you are less than middle class, it pretty much sucks to be you. Why the hell do you think mid terms were so bad? Because it just doesn't matter, money will always trump our lives.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #126)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:57 PM

130. ""Or just maybe nothing fucking changes whether you vote or not. ""

 


Now that's a winning, creating change-for-the-better attitude..


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Response to vkkv (Reply #130)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 04:06 PM

131. When you have been voting for Democrats

for over 25 fucking years and nothing changes, how long do you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome? Hillary will be more of the same.

It's an attitude that the Democrats have earned.

Z

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Response to vkkv (Reply #130)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:57 PM

148. I have heard this so many times

 

And then, we do live in an oligarchy

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:07 PM

53. Amen!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:08 PM

54. K&R

Tweeted

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:09 PM

55. Getting the money out of politics is a start...

 

...unfortunately the powers in both parties are beholden.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:20 PM

60. Bhutan? They don't focus on Gross Domestic Product numbers...

I can't remember the exact phrase, but they focus on something I think is called Gross Happiness Product.

They're not big, nor powerful, nor rich. They only recently got television. But we can learn from them.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:26 PM

63. Hey, the banksters are happy and that should be good enough for all of us, eh?

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #63)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:42 PM

69. Well Damnits, They should be even more happy that their choices are now

A Corporate, Wall Street friendly Democrat or Republican. See, they CAN have it both ways.

Ugh..

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:38 PM

64. Cost of my daughter's 4 year education at a

public university: $120,000. Percentage of pay cut taken by my husband when he was laid off at age 59 just as my daughter was entering college: 45%. Number of times he had to scramble to stay employed the last 5 years, accepting crappy jobs at low pay outfits: 3. My lousy pay as a substitute teacher: $115/day with no benefits whatsoever and suffering the added indignity of waiting up to 2 months for a paycheck. Cost of medical and dental care: astronomical.

Yep, the USA sucks in so many ways. Yet, we seem to be a nation of sheep, consistently voting against our own best interests and passively accepting that we are being screwed up, down, and sideways.

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #64)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:40 PM

66. Yep.

The Frog March.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:42 PM

68. There are still too many people who either benefit from the status quo or...

who haven't been burned by it (yet).

Things have to get worse before they will get better.

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Response to antigop (Reply #68)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:57 PM

75. With no guarantee that it gets better

Which is why so many people want to keep the status quo. The devil you know and all that.

If it is a finite planet we live on, everyone can't have everything. What are you willing to give up, that you would rather keep, to make things get better for everyone?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:52 PM

73. K & R

At the ripe old age of 68, I've seen progress I never thought would be possible in my lifetime. I attended a segregated school in 1958, and lived long enough to help elect an African American to the presidency. I remember when almost no one would admit to being gay, and lived long enough to have an openly gay Congressman who is married and has a child. I have friends who went to prison for pot possession, and lived long enough to walk into a store and buy cannabis right off the shelf.

All that said, I sadly agree with you, and America's rising suicide rate proves you're right. There is far too much misery, caused by wage suppression, voter suppression, news suppression, and just suppression in general. We must demand better.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:58 PM

77. When this country stops squeezing turnips for blood.

And by turnips I mean people. Worker's rights being neglected over the "rights" of corporations has led to misery for everyone.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:01 PM

79. Wow

I told my niece that I had to get hearing aides at a cost of just over $3,000. She told me the National Healther Service in the UK covers them for semirs. I am 80, and could have used the money on a new furnace, driveway or any number of other things. We are getting royally screwed in the USA.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:09 PM

83. Never. People are addicted to misery.

Working your life away is a form of battle scar here. It's encouraged as a bizarre form of gaining respect.

Being abused is ingrained into our culture. It's expected. The thought of getting more vacation time is looked on with disgust. 'That's what those lazy Europeans do. This is America!'

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #83)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:14 PM

88. You have a point there

I remember reading people in the 50s who got ulcers were proud of it! It really is a badge of honor here. In the 80s I remember people talking about working 80 hours a week in a boasting tone.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:19 PM

89. Proud to be your 100th rec, PP.

.

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Response to blm (Reply #89)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:25 PM

92. Thanks blm

that means a lot to me

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:54 PM

100. K & R! Excellent post!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:59 PM

101. We are being manipulated psychologically

and emotionally by people who are VERY good at it.

Since people are hooked up to social media, they have taken it over and used it to get to people. People have to break out of this Matrix and find alternative ways to work around it and get done what has to be done. We have to keep pace and stay proactive and not reactive, when they take action, we need to find ways to preserve all of this massive unity across the country.

First they took over the M$M and now this--part of this movement is going to be finding alternative ways to communicate and get this done, or we are cooked.

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Response to felix_numinous (Reply #101)


Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:08 PM

102. Silly rabbit. Happiness is for corporations.

 

Now submit and vote for Our Leader. She has a "D" by her name so she must be good, right?!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:13 PM

103. Amenz!

 

Many people that are voting in this election don't know what it is like to not have a vacation day or a sick day for years and years at a time. A sick day is a day you lose money. I a, tired of work place mentality of it is weak to take a sick day off. Had a boss that came in sick, coughing and horse. I asked why she did not take it off as I knew she had a sick day. She responded that she "never takes them", with a bit of an air of arrogance. Well years ago I decided I was tired of this crap so I instantly responded,"You know people here don't get sick days, and you are going to cost us and them money!" She instantly tied to make like she wasn't really that sick, then stayed off in her office for the rest of the day. We are getting like China where we wear masks to work to not make other's sick..but that is us as employees suffering for our co-workers because our bosses are too privileged to care about us.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:14 PM

104. Americans have been bred to think this is the norm and many don't even look out of the box, falling

for ALL of the propaganda spewed in the US both political and religious. USA, home of a dystopia and Idiocracy.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:29 PM

110. Great post!! Thom Hartmann is reading it on his show!!

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Response to SalviaBlue (Reply #110)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:34 PM

112. that's humbling

I am not worthy.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #112)


Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #112)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:11 PM

118. Oh, but you are worthy.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:43 PM

114. When there's money in it for those at the top

$$$$$

Which means never....

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)


Response to carolinayellowdog (Reply #116)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:16 PM

119. great comment

and I think slavery and the mentality of the slave owner is very deeply ingrained in our society. We are constantly looking to recapitulate it. We have prisoners manufacture things for us - we look for slave-like labor overseas. We run it ourselves, in the Marianas islands. We deeply want it to return, and it runs like a poison current through everything that capital tries to do here.

America has to grow beyond it, and just treat people like people.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:26 PM

121. It will have to get worse before it gets better, I hate to say

I do NOT want it to get any worse. I'd like to make that crystal clear.

How did we get the New Deal in 1933 ? The Great Depression and the fact that FDR did NOT campaign on it explicitly. He got overwhelming Democratic majorities in both houses. The old corrupt plutocratic 1920's order that the Republicans loved finally did them in. The same will have to happen. MOST people pay little attention to politics.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:36 PM

124. NO! You cannot take away a family's Rolls and make them ride in an Escalade, or plain old Caddy. eom

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:49 PM

128. When we vote to make them miserable. Who do they really not want to work with?

 

If Bernie is gone, the one that makes them the most miserable is how I'll vote!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 06:30 PM

139. Yes, of course you're right. Rec'd sadly. nt

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 07:16 PM

141. When collective compassion exceeds collective greed. nt

 

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 07:36 PM

142. Fuck you! I have mine.......

Not until that phrase goes away. Selfishness is what drives conservatives and the rich.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 07:37 PM

143. We need a revolution

 

A revolution where we stuff tea partiers into weighted wooden crates and dump them into Boston harbor!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 07:50 PM

144. Thom Hartmann read most of your post on his show today.

I think it was near the start of the 1pm (Eastern) segment, but I could be wrong. Glad I caught it then and here.

He's followed your posts for quite awhile.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #144)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:58 AM

165. thank you for the heads up.

that's very flattering

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #144)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:17 AM

171. Found it!

Thom got the Animal Farm reference

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:58 PM

146. I think that many ostensible Liberals have thrown in the towel.

 

They have convinced themselves that we can't make a better future, and all we can hope to do is try to slow down the inevitable slide into misery and fascism. Any suggestion to the contrary is pie-in-the-sky idealism and selfishness.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:05 PM

147. But I have a smart phone!

Oh, wait . . .

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:36 PM

149. Western Europe has blood on its hands. It still exploits the third world for the wealth

needed to make its citizens at home nabobs. Don't hold France or UK up as models. They exploit the US too---half the pharms that old folks buy here are made by European companies that lobby Congress to keep Medicare from controlling drug prices.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:47 PM

150. K&R

Well stated.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:04 AM

152. YES!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:12 AM

153. Many here don't want that. That's why they don't protest Hillary Clinton as candidate...

We are being conditioned to accept the cruelty of neo-liberalism as somehow superior or exceptional to rest of modern world, but really we are being groomed and conditioned by both political parties to be savage assholes who'd sell their own children into slavery for a quick buck.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:30 AM

154. people in Norway are Happy!

that is the first thing my brother said upon his return from a trip there. He could not believe that people were actually happy and did consume themselves in anger like Americans. There truly are different worlds out there. Ours is a mean one now.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 05:57 AM

157. I live in the south, the poorest part of our country, and yet

It is almost completely dominated by Republican rule. They get them to the polls to vote by using their hate, fear, ignorance and years of being uneducated. I have to cry for my country when I see what has happened in my 71 years here.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:03 AM

158. We have been colonized by our own capitalism. n/t

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 06:05 AM

159. K&R!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:22 AM

161. We are in really tough shape

when we compare ourselves to imagined paradises in Europe and ignore the 80% of the world's people that don't live in developed countries.
Your slavery argument was actually used by the south to justify real slavery at the time of the civil war. I find it extremely offensive.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #161)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:00 AM

166. I'm pretty sure I'm not making an argument in favor of slavery

try reading it again.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #166)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:36 AM

173. I did't claim you were, I just pointed out

where the argument was used before. Try reading it again.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #173)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:31 AM

176. ok - which argument? Used by whom?

thanks, I'm interested to learn more about this.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #176)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:36 AM

177. Go back and read my post that you replied to originally.

The answer is there.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #177)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:44 AM

178. no, it isn't

"Your slavery argument was actually used by the south to justify real slavery"

first, I didn't make a 'slavery argument', except to note that we had and have too much of it.

Second, I'm curious to learn what you mean when you say it was used to justify real slavery. Because what was used by whom to justify real slavery? Just what are you on about?

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #178)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:47 AM

180. Exactly, after your "except", you repeated

your slavery argument. That is pretty sad.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #180)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:50 AM

181. you will be the first person I've put on ignore here in 12 years

thanks for wasting my time with your nonsense.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #181)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:02 AM

185. I feel honored

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #161)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:11 AM

167. also, there really are places in Europe where the people happier

They aren't imagined, but nor do I think they are paradises. Just happier.

Also, what does ignoring the developing world have to do with anything? (and, frankly, I'd be surprised if many of those countries didn't have happier populations overall than the US).

Your entire post seems to be very bait-y, and here I have taken the bait. Feel free to ignore my response, as you couldn't have possibly misunderstood my original post as much as you are pretending to.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #167)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:31 AM

172. So you think I didn't understand what you said.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 07:47 AM

163. Unfortunately I think we're seeing our only chance

getting marbleized by the media and shunned by the people who fear to dream.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #163)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:13 AM

169. yeah, that is really depressing

as is the dancing round the ashes being done by the party higher-ups and the media.

But, I take some heart in the fact that Bernie's ideas don't disappear with his candidacy, and he did WAY better than expected and almost pulled off an upset. His _ideas_ catch fire - we just need to find the next champions for those ideas.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:15 AM

170. It's not just this country, it's humanity in general.

 

There is nothing stopping us from living in a real utopia right now. Except ourselves.

I guess it's in our nature for nearly all of us to inhabit our own internal universe and not look at the larger picture. We only developed full consciousness two thousand years ago so maybe we'll continue to evolve and start to see things differently.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:52 AM

174. K&R & crosspost to 'working poor' n/t

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Response to w0nderer (Reply #174)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:45 AM

179. thank you

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:12 AM

182. When we stop blaming everyone else for the misery and stop the misery we are causing ourselves. nt

 

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