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Sun May 1, 2016, 05:30 PM

We're about to transition into General Election mode soon, or as I like to call it:

"Anti-Republican season."

Yes, yes, I know that, technically, the primary is still in full swing and we have yet to officially endorse our nominee. Frankly, regardless of not naming an actual person at this point, I really can't wait until we face the GOPer opposition full on. I would feel exactly the same way regardless of who we'd name. In my particular case, I detest winger GOPers more than I even like Democrats. That may not be an all too common sentiment around these parts, but I refuse to apologize for it.

Because, if we're going to struggle so painfully in an internal way on the left, what would be the entire point of it all anyway?

Anyhoo, there's one of our side's particularly common notions that I'd like to address: The one that depicts the white poor, working class and middle class Republican electorate as voting against their own best interests and not really knowing what they're doing.

I'm calling bullshit on that.

They know EXACTLY what they're doing, and frankly, I think that it's insulting and patronizing to not consider the idea that they've made a conscious, deliberate decision to support, regressive, right-wing, incompetent and malfeasant asshole Republican politicians and positions. Give them enough credit, will ya'?

Sure, would most of them support the very same genuinely ideological neutral governmental policies, if they were offered by GOPers, instead of completely losing their shit whenever a Democrat offers the exact same thing?

Of course, they would, and that's because most of the GOPer electorate is made up of blatantly hypocritical assholes. They're enamored with watching people, whom they believe to be morally superior to, suffer and in spite of the fact, it would create some self-inflected harm. President Obama proved that very point time and time again.

So rather than simply calling GOPer voters stupid or misinformed (in spite of the fact of how many times they seem to perform the living embodiment of those words every time someone sticks a video camera in front of their slobbering maws,) consider for one moment, by the sound of the sincerity in their grunts and groans, that these people have made a conscious decision to be piously judgmental, ill-tempered, misogynistic, sexist, white supremacist asshole know-nothings who carry around chips on their shoulders so large that you could chalk a B-52 with it. When it comes to the fact that they wish nothing but harm on people that they don't like, even if by doing that they will harm themselves, try to look at that as something that an asshole or a bully would do.

Yes, these people are assholes and bullies, being whipped into a selfish and hateful frenzy by GOPer crooks and their well paid agit-propagandinsts in the media. And there's only one way that you beat a bully; you recognize who they are, what they're trying to do you and you come together to take away their power to bully over you.

The ultimate goal for any Democratic voter should be to beat the living shit out of GOPer candidates in elections. And yes, yes, I know that Democratic politicians are at times problematic themselves, but agonizing over our own internal issues should never take the place of beating the living shit out of GOPer candidates and winning elections.

I don't know about you, but I want this to be MY activity once again come November:






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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply We're about to transition into General Election mode soon, or as I like to call it: (Original post)
MrScorpio May 2016 OP
longship May 2016 #1
Thinkingabout May 2016 #2
awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #19
Thinkingabout May 2016 #21
awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #23
underthematrix May 2016 #3
Hortensis May 2016 #4
dreamnightwind May 2016 #5
MrScorpio May 2016 #7
dreamnightwind May 2016 #8
tom_kelly May 2016 #12
dreamnightwind May 2016 #15
MrScorpio May 2016 #14
dreamnightwind May 2016 #16
MrScorpio May 2016 #22
dreamnightwind May 2016 #25
awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #20
Kalidurga May 2016 #27
Paka May 2016 #13
dreamnightwind May 2016 #17
Democat May 2016 #28
wryter2000 May 2016 #6
MisterP May 2016 #9
Bernardo de La Paz May 2016 #10
MoonRiver May 2016 #11
awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #18
Hekate May 2016 #24
gwheezie May 2016 #26

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 05:37 PM

1. Fuckin' A!



R&


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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 05:47 PM

2. Thanks, I am ready for the GE, what a year of the clown car.

I can not remember a primary by either party which so many things has gone wrong. Far too many candidates and as I told my RW friends at the beginning I did not think a viable candidate would emerge. My thoughts at the first was Kasich though I have problems but he seemed to be the most reasonable. Who knows who will be their nominee. Never have cared about Cruz, he isn't a leader though he may have his heart set on being the first USA dictator. Trump the Rump holds close to his name of Rump, he may be charming to his wife but I do not have the same opinion. Kasich has played the typical RW cards and pushed RW agenda in Ohio.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #2)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:51 PM

19. The only thing any of Trump's wives felt charming

 

was his bank account. Kanye West had a song about it.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #19)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:56 PM

21. Would not be worth waking up just one day with him

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #21)

Mon May 2, 2016, 12:38 AM

23. No doubt. nt

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 05:49 PM

3. YES!! Preach. I plan to go hard for my DEM slate - very very hard

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 06:00 PM

4. +1000 for hard-core Social Conservatives, and

all too well described. These are most of the bigoted troublemakers of the world, whether areligious or devout religious right, which most at least consider themselves to be.

But let's leave the door open and welcome hand out for Hillary's "thoughtful" conservatives who just may be ready to reconsider what they've been supporting and opposing all these years. They were not always lying with the dogs way off on their right, or at least their parents were not. They helped bring us things like Social Security, unemployment insurance, the 40-hour workweek, Medicare, and so on and on. Neither we nor they could have done it without joining into one force.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 06:29 PM

5. I strongly disagree with this OP

"The ultimate goal for any Democratic voter should be to beat the living shit out of GOPer candidates in elections."

Really? That's why you're a Democrat?

Those RW people you dismiss as just assholes are a far more diverse group than you assume. Assholes, plenty of those in both parties, as well as people who vote against their best interests, either because of wedge issues they buy into or because they are misinformed.

We need to reach for the common humanity of people and work on policies that support that humanity, that's the work Democrats, or anyone, should be involved in.

The electorate is upside-down, over 40% refuse to join either party. Why? You think they're just stupid or assholes for not being Democrats? I think they're on to something, and the party is at a crossroads, recognize this and respond, or be just another illegitimate force inflicting the goals of the wealthy, which are terminal to our long-time survival as a species, on the rest of us.

Knock yourself out supporting the presumptive nominee, whose policies and donors put her solidly in the neoliberal/neocon camp.

I will work to find a better path, whether in or out of the party. There's a lot of great discussion and thinking going on right now, a ton of energy reorganizing in new ways.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #5)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:08 PM

7. Welcome to the Two-Party system, my friend, time to pick a side.

Are Democrats perfect? Of course, they aren't... But under our current system, sitting on one's duff and agonizing over the fact that a Democratic candidate doesn't meet some ideological purity test is tantamount to political suicide.

Am I supposed to be completely happy with any Democratic candidate that I'm supporting by default? Of course, not, because I'm an adult and I can recognize that I'm not entitled to have everything go my way, in spite of the fact that my own political compass pegs me as someone who's to the left of Mahatma Gandhi.



I love my country, but the fact is that most of our policies suck, even when those policies are endorsed by Democrats. In spite of that, they tend to suck at more exponentially harmful levels when imposed by Republicans, much of that intentionally.

There are two possible solutions for this dilemma that we far lefties find ourselves in, either we can change the Democratic Party from within, or we can challenge the party from outside of it. Both require a significant amount of dedicated people to achieve change. It's a numbers game. So, either you recognize who your opponent is, work to beat the living shit out of that opponent and make changes while you're in a position to, or you get left behind and whine about it.

Now, I'm not saying that achieving the goal of pushing Democratic politics back to the left is impossible... I actually think that it can be done, if the people who are trying to do that actually know what they're doing. Sometimes you have to fail before you succeed. This internal struggle is not over by a long shot.

However, you don't win over winger GOPers by being nice to them. They consider that as weakness and will do everything that they can to exploit it against you. Not to mention the fact that their goals, especially the particularly Dominionist and white supremacist ones, have never been the same as ours. We are in an ideological struggle here. These are not nice people, they're pious, judgmental assholes with a self-destructive God complex and the best thing to do is to diminish their ability to cause general harm.







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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #7)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:34 PM

8. Wow, where to start...

You say we're in a 2-party system, but the electorate has left them both, because they are owned by the same large corporate donors.

"It's a numbers game. So, either you recognize who your opponent is, work to beat the living shit out of that opponent and make changes while you're in a position to, or you get left behind and whine about it."

I recognize who my opponent is, it's the donors/owners of both major parties. And it's well past time that everyone else recognizes this too. The numbers game supports my argument, not yours, voters who refuse to affiliate are by far larger in numbers than those that belong to either party.

The ideological struggle you speak of is mostly contrived by the powers that be, so we don't notice the Acme, Inc. armored truck being loaded up with all the money of the Treasury, to be shipped offshore to tax havens for the wealthy. We are up against an existential crisis as a species, climate change, are besieged by terrorists who are blowback to the policies of U.S. military "adventurism" and regime change that are done by both parties, globalization and the trade policies that enable it are eroding opportunities for good secure jobs (also pushed by both parties), on and on. I define our ideological struggle differently than you.

Finally, there's a great deal of general harm (your term) that is caused by corporate Democrats, who are using the people-first cred our party cultivated over long years of standing up for the little guy, to pass corporate agendas the people would more fiercely resist if they were being pushed by Republicans.

There are certainly real left-right divisions between Democrats and Republicans. Unfortunately, the far more urgent problems (climate change, endless wars, poverty, exploitation of desperate labor pools, mass incarceration and the police state, an out-of-control financial industry, many others) largely transcend these divisions. The presumptive party nominee is on the wrong side of every one of these issues, as is the party leadership. At this point our party has pretty much succumbed to corporate capture.

Can it be fixed internally, in-party? I certainly hope so. Many of us have watched this primary and seen what our party really stands for, and we're not seeing any sign of reform, the party has instead doubled-down on corporate supremacy. Defining our mission as simply opposing Republicans enables this.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #8)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:19 PM

12. Yesiree Bob!

Very well thought out and written. However, I don't see it being fixed from within. The generations coming of age now are going to be far more liberal and progressive and won't have the patience that the Democratic Party has enjoyed as of late.

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Response to tom_kelly (Reply #12)

Sun May 1, 2016, 09:58 PM

15. Agree

It would, however, be much easier to bring about the change we need if we could take this party back from the corporatists.

Doing it via a new party is a steep hill. At this point, after watching this primary (as well as the last 30 years), it's hard to say which is the more difficult task. Either way, it has to happen, and I'm pretty sure it will, people are beyond done with this crap.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #8)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:33 PM

14. And your solution during an election cycle for this problem is doing what?

Anything at all?

If you're not willing to align yourself against Republicans by siding with Democrats, because you don't believe that there's a damn sight difference between the two, what options do you believe that you can exercise?



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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #14)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:06 PM

16. The "you have nowhere else to go" argument is not enough

I'm working for policies and reform, not to elect whatever center-right (or even center-left, as many insist Hillary is) corporatist puts a D after their name. The policies I support are the policies our party supposedly supports, but doesn't. It isn't my fault if the party chooses a candidate that doesn't believe what so many of us believe, and who supports policies that only get us deeper into the abyss we find ourselves in.

There are a number of movements building at this moment. Some of them are new parties, some are strategies to leverage the Democratic Party back to representing the people. I don't know what will emerge, or what form it will take, we will see. There's still a little hope of Bernie being the nominee so at the moment all my energy is going to that.

Please don't twist my words re differences between the two parties. I said there are substantial differences. The problem is, the differences are mostly in the less urgent areas. We really are up against it re climate change, it's not a joke and it's not hair-on-fire to recognize the urgency of it. So our party is attempting to nominate a huge supporter of fracking who has taken a lot of money from fossil fuel interests, and who sees the largest threat to our nation as Russia (IIRC) rather than as climate change. Fail. Same with banks, regime change, actual wars, prisons, marijuana, police state, surveillance, you name it, she's on the wrong side of it.

Sorry you don't see it this way, and I wish it was not the situation.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #16)

Mon May 2, 2016, 12:10 AM

22. Yep, except that our options here in November won't be between a corp D and a non-corp D

That's what primaries are for and regardless of whether or not Bernie would be our nominee or either Hillary, my own position on beating GOPer ass in November would not have budged by one iota. I cast my vote in the Michigan primary, knowing full well that there was a distinct possibility that the person for which I had cast my vote may or may not end up in the General. But in spite of that, I've always been intent on supporting the eventual nominee.

And I'm glad that you mentioned Bernie, because there will come a point when even he will transition to General Election mode, and by doing that, he's going to encourage that his own supporters to vote against Republicans. I came across this recent article about what Bernie supporters would do since the prospects for their guy are fading at this point.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-bernie-sanders-movement-20160501-story.html

As the prospect of the democratic socialist they adore winning the White House rapidly fades, Sanders supporters are scrambling to keep the movement he has built from fading like earlier liberal efforts have.

It may not be easy lightning to contain.

Bernie Sanders is "the glue that holds us together," said Phil Sanders, a gray-ponytailed onetime peacenik at the union hall rally here who has been protesting since Vietnam.

The activist, no relation to the candidate, is eager to see the movement that Sanders spawned continue to grow after election day. But he worries that the Sanders phenomenon will end up as more of a moment than a movement. Aside from supporting Sanders, he said, the different elements in the coalition are "all off on different things," with passions as diverse as a $15 minimum wage and climate change.


If Bernie's post activity strategy will be to support Hillary for election, I'm wondering how many of his current supporters will stay behind him as he works with the Democratic Party's current iteration.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #22)

Mon May 2, 2016, 02:40 AM

25. It will be interesting, for sure

I'd be surprised if he doesn't issue some public support for Hillary (assuming she wins the nomination), he's pretty much obligated to, unless he runs third party. Many of his supporters, after this bitter primary, are 100% disgusted with the party and want to him run on the Green Party ticket, but I would be surprised if he does so.

<edit to add>: this is an interesting development, and I'm not advocating for it here, I know the rules and ideally we'd take back the Democratic Party, but it is worth knowing about and is relevant to this conversation:
http://www.socialistalternative.org/2016/04/27/kshama-sawant-appeals-bernie-run-independent-16000-signed-on/
KSHAMA SAWANT PETITIONS BERNIE TO RUN INDEPENDENT, LAUNCH NEW PARTY 16,000 HAVE SIGNED ON!
</end edit>

He's always been a team player, despite what some people here say. I recently read an article where apparently Nader has tried to contact him a number of times over the years and Bernie won't return his calls. The article implied it had to do with Bernie being a team player for Democrats, since Bernie had in the past made some positive statements about Nader, but who knows why, anyway it wouldn't surprise me if it had to do with Nader's ridiculous presidential campaigns (I like Nader, but don't think he would make a good president, and never felt like he made the kind of real campaign the way Bernie has, more of a vanity candidate).

But yeah, at the moment is no consensus plan for Bernie supporters. It may stay that way. But there is an amazing amount of activity right now trying to establish it as a movement, not a moment, and I think that part will succeed. I have to say, not much of that energy supports sustaining the movement within the Democratic Party, it is seen as part of the problem. So I wouldn't expect any energy at all from most Bernie supporters to get Hillary elected, it's just too far from what we believe in. Some will hold their nose and vote for her, some will not. I'm in California, a safe blue state, so unless Trump is polling better here than expected, I'll use my safe blue-state privilege and vote my conscience.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #7)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:53 PM

20. I fall in the same area of the graph...

 

maybe just a hair more to the left and down.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #7)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:28 AM

27. Anarchist Syndicate?

That is what the spot I landed on the graph said. But, I am up one and to the right or so. It's been a while since I looked at it. Oh wait I got a screen shot I think. Nope didn't save. Anyway close enough. So you should know we aren't really people to just fall in line just cuz.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #5)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:32 PM

13. +1

Thank you for that sane explanation.

We are at a crossroads in time where survival as a species depends on learning to find a better path and to build rather than destroy. I have no desire to "beat the living shit out of" anyone, but I do have a strong urge to grow and develop rationally. The world can indeed be a better place and I want my input to be positive.

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Response to Paka (Reply #13)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:15 PM

17. You're quite welcome

Yes, it's a very different mindset than the warrior "crush them" mentality, there are so many human needs that are universal and that are not being met.

We need to rally everyone together to change this, just the progressive left cannot do it alone so I don't think it's a good time to be demonizing people in other parties, especially when our own party is so flawed.

The enemy is the greed and recklessness of global capital, and the war machines they use to extract resources and wealth. They'd rather watch the earth become an uninhabitable hot-house than relinquish their hold on wealth and power.

If our party was on the correct side of these issues I would be behind them all the way. And the young people today are seeing it the same way.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #5)

Mon May 2, 2016, 03:51 AM

28. When there are limited choices, you fight for what is most right

Or you could not care about gay Americans, POC, women, immigrants, and others.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:07 PM

6. Awesome rant!

I'm with you, Mr. Scorpio.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:57 PM

9. 11 Governors, 13 Senators, 69 Reps, 913 state seats, and left with 26% of the electorate

yeah, the Party-unity types are practically experts at losing to Republicans

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:08 PM

10. Get Out the Vote. Two to four Supreme Court Justice choices depend on it.

Take the Presidency and the Senate. Make the House sweat and maybe even take that too.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:13 PM

11. I am SOOOOO ready to focus on those assholes, especially one whose name starts with t.

And I am 100% sure Hillary will eviscerate that ultra clown in their first debate!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 10:45 PM

18. I'll drink to that

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 02:01 AM

24. Works for me, Mr Scorpio. I'll drink Republican Tears like a fine dry wine.




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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 02:58 AM

26. Right with you

I see no other way to deal with trump or Cruz, probably trump. Anyone voting for trump doesn't care about their "interests" they care about their hate.

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