General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSupreme Court may be filled due to Trump nomination
Republicans must know that there is absolutely no chance that we will win the White House in 2016 now. They must also know that we are likely to lose the Senate as well. So the choices, essentially, are to confirm Garland and have another bite at the apple in a decade, or watch as President Clinton nominates someone who is radically more leftist and 10-15 years younger, and we are in no position to stop it.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/05/04/3775259/redstate-confirm-merrick-garland-before-it-is-too-late/
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Why it's not obvious to everyone baffles me.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)if you support Trumps candidacy?
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Can't be that dense, right?
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)evidence that the underestimation will not continue.
Trump crushed Jeb, Rubio, and Cruz - all of whom were stronger campaigners and started with a bigger reservoir of favorable approval than Hillary.
Don't think I'm suggesting it is a good thing that Hillary is ill equipped to face Trump (and -- BTW -- I still think she's the favorite to win both the nomination and the general election), but if we could invent a scenario where a troll like Trump gets elected, that scenario would necessitate us nominating a historically disliked and distrusted candidate who campaigns poorly and has trouble inspiring millennial Democrats and, most unfortunately, has no trouble inspiring independents to vote Republican.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)He has started to modify his tone of voice, without modifying his rhetoric.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I was one of the lone voices. Now if you mean corporate media you are correct.
As to the tone...it was amazing to watch last night, how skillfully he went from primary to GE mode. I expected it. But even though I did, if you are a student of rethoric It was masterful
For the predictable crowd...recognizing something hardly means one supports the fascist ok
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)taking the man seriously as an opponent does not equate to support
and it's rather bizarre in the disassociated-from-reality sense that you should think it does.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Trump has no chance in a General Election although he was perfect for the GOP primary.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Stallion
(6,474 posts)All the facts are against you-living in a little fantasy land
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)1) Just under 6 out of 10 people don't like her, find her untrustworthy, or to be a liar.
2) Millennials don't think she's any better than the Republicans. They also aren't connected to the party.
3) Bernie supporters, Democrats or not, don't like Hillary. She may get most to vote for her against Trump, but most isn't good enough. She will need all of them.
4) Independents don't like her. They prefer Trump or Bernie.
5) Republicans desperately want to be in the WH again. They will hold their nose and vote for Trump or Cruz over Hillary. It's not even close.
6) She doesn't inspire or create enthusiasm ... compare to Bernie and Obama, or even Trump.
7) She doesn't offer any plan or message for the future. Obama had one of hope and change, and Bernie has one of economic equality.
8) She's part of the establishment. That's not a good place to be in 2016.
9) Much of her message is to be the status-quo President that will continue Obama's Presidency. Not very inspiring when all Republicans, almost all Independents, and quite a few Democrats want big change now.
10) She's not a very good candidate. She keeps things from the public (noise machine and transcripts) that make her look like she's hiding something. Her and Bill get unnecessarily angry when confronted by BLM, Greenpeace, etc. And, she changes so many positions on issues that it's hard for people to figure out what she really believes.
Stallion
(6,474 posts)She's heading to between 320-348 Electoral votes
(oh I see someone below has seen the same evidence readily available to any one not pouting about Bernie Sanders' loss of the Democratic nomination)
stopbush
(24,395 posts)#3 - 80% of Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary
#4 - Indies never decide elections
#5 - at least 25% of Rs will vote for Hillary according to polls
#6 - Hillary obviously inspires people. That's how she's received the MOST VOTES of any candidate, and over 2-million more votes than Sanders. There's enthusiasm for going to rallies, and then there's enthusiasm for going to the polls. Guess which one counts in an election?
#7 - she has an extensive plan for the future. Check out her website. Bernie offers free stuff that he can't pay for. Attractive to children and the willfully ignorant, but no one else.
#8 - the "establishment" gave us those great social programs Medicare and SS. What need of a revolution when the establishment can give you that?
#9 - Ds are happy with the changes Obama has brought. Tweaks are in order, not massive changes
#10 - the funniest of all. The proof that she's "not a good candidate" is that she's slaughtering Sanders. Ha!
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)#3 - 80% of Sanders supporters isn't enough... if she can actually get that many.
#4 - Maybe not, but losing them like Obama did in 08 and 12 will not make it any easier.
#5 - BS. The Republicans will gladly come home to Trump after the GOP tears her down.
#6 - Hillary did not inspire new voters, that she will need to win. The one's she did get to the polls isn't nearly enough.
#7 - Ask 10 out of 10 people that aren't hard core Hillary supporters and I guarantee they couldn't come up with anything. And, they damn sure aren't looking at her website. Bernie offers "free stuff" like Social Security. Are you saying you're against Social Security? And he absolutely has a plan to pay for it. Check out his website.
#8 - You mean "free stuff"? And, please don't compare FDR to Hillary. It's insulting.
#9 - Not enough Ds are happy with Obama. And, I'm happy for you that you don't need massive changes. Unfortunately, most others do.
#10 - She was the inevitable, front-runner, establishment Democrat with ALL of the support from the party and media and she could barely beat the Independent socialist with zero name recognition. I wouldn't gloat.
stopbush
(24,395 posts)Have you looked at the numbers?
Sheesh.
Delusional.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)She won 56.8% of the states so far. She was supposed to win all but one.
A great campaigner wouldn't have gone from being up by 50 points to only 2.
procon
(15,805 posts)I'm baffled that none of the political mavens have reached the same startling consensus as you.
Sometimes my cat baffles me, too.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)All anyone can do is give an opinion.
And here are some reason why I have my opinion.
1) Just under 6 out of 10 people don't like her, find her untrustworthy, or to be a liar.
2) Millennials don't think she's any better than the Republicans. They also aren't connected to the party.
3) Bernie supporters, Democrats or not, don't like Hillary. She may get most to vote for her against Trump, but most isn't good enough. She will need all of them.
4) Independents don't like her. They prefer Trump or Bernie.
5) Republicans desperately want to be in the WH again. They will hold their nose and vote for Trump or Cruz over Hillary. It's not even close.
6) She doesn't inspire or create enthusiasm ... compare to Bernie and Obama, or even Trump.
7) She doesn't offer any plan or message for the future. Obama had one of hope and change, and Bernie has one of economic equality.
8) She's part of the establishment. That's not a good place to be in 2016.
9) Much of her message is to be the status-quo President that will continue Obama's Presidency. Not very inspiring when all Republicans, almost all Independents, and quite a few Democrats want big change now.
10) She's not a very good candidate. She keeps things from the public (noise machine and transcripts) that make her look like she's hiding something. Her and Bill get unnecessarily angry when confronted by BLM, Greenpeace, etc. And, she changes so many positions on issues that it's hard for people to figure out what she really believes.
1) Trump has unfavorable ratings of 60% unfavorable vs 35% favorable Clinton is at 54% vs 42%
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/donald-trump-favorable-rating
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating
Clinton wins
2)http://www.npr.org/2016/04/25/475658752/harvard-poll-millennials-yearn-for-bernie-but-prefer-clinton-to-trump
In a hypothetical head-to-head contest among likely voters, Democrat Hillary Clinton trounces Republican Donald Trump, 61 percent to 25 percent a 36-point margin. Of those likely voters surveyed, 14 percent said they were undecided.
The poll found that millennials largely reject Trump, the leading Republican candidate. He has the highest negative ratings of any of the candidates included in the survey: 74 percent have an unfavorable view of Trump compared with 17 percent who have a favorable view of the billionaire businessman. Among millennials who identify as Republican, Trump's numbers remain 20 points underwater in terms of favorability (37 percent positive to 57 percent negative).
Hillary wins again.
3) Speculation on your part and sounds like personal bias more than anything.
There is this from that Harvard poll as well..
Kind of undermines your point, and Hillary wins again.
4)http://www.wsj.com/articles/independents-are-souring-on-hillary-clinton-1462310510
Close but still a win for Hillary.
5)
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/3/1522849/-Conservatives-are-having-a-complete-meltdown-Enjoy
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed... and we will deserve it.
Again doesn't support your claim.
6) Seems like speculation on your part. I would bet there are a whole lot of women out there quite excited by the prospect of a woman president. Even if it is Hillary.
7)Again speculation on your part.
8)I will give you 8 but then being trump is not a great place to be either.
9) Arguable but the idea that wanting change = Trump is a good idea is highly questionable.
10) Agreed not the best candidate however once again we have Trump who by any metric is an even worse candidate.
Again Hillary wins
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)And it won't be close.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Despite the fact that you can't point to a thing supporting your claim I guess you are likely right...
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)It's not my fault that you won't accept them.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)most of them provably false. I linked to stuff knocking nearly every one of them down. It's not my fault you have confirmation bias.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)She will lose because of at least 6 of those reasons. No doubt about it.
procon
(15,805 posts)Baffling, indeed.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)This will be decided in the usual suspects. Yup, bored reporters started playing what ifs today. The rust belt is a good pickup for trump, due to trade and well rust...Muchigan for example is a good opportunity as well as WI and OH. We were going back and forth over FL. Though a couple southern states might, and might is not very likely go to her column
National polls are irrelevant at this point. Start watching those states. And yes, PA is also in play.
The rest of us are well whatever.
Though AZ might, again high qualifies, might be in play
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)I will be sure to take notice but right now every single predictor available shows a Dem president in 2016.
Just because you say so is not a convincing argument especially when every single way to gauge the outcome predicts the opposite.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Feel free to point out one that doesn't.
We already know you can't though don't we?
LonePirate
(13,414 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)They are trapped inside a bubble that doesn't allow them too see the big picture.
Clinton has no viable path to victory against Trump.
Stallion
(6,474 posts)people in the bubble refers to people who are not exposed to the available evidence on which to base an informed opinion. Clinton has won about 58 out of 60 matchups with Trump and the only 2 polls Clinton didn't win were Rasmussen which is the Official Bubble Poll of the Republican Party and its President Mitt Romney
basselope
(2,565 posts)The GOP has spent the last 6 years preparing for this.
In most of the swing states that have setup methods to depress democratic voter turnout. To overcome this you need OVERWHELMING voter turnout.
Clinton does not and CANNOT inspire that type of turnout.
Obama lost the independent voters form 2008 to 2012 and polls taken right now are meaningless. Ask Ronald Reagan, Ask Dukakis.
What you fail to understand is that the system currently in place needs a HIGHLY HIGHLY motivated voting population to get a democrat elected president.
Thinking Clinton inspires that motivation is laughable, considering that she is basically running even with someone who wasn't even a member of the party 1 year ago.
Stallion
(6,474 posts)nm
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Depression of Democratic voter turnout is undeniable - and a fact.
Obama lost with independent voters in 2008 and 2012 - another fact.
Ronald Reagan and Dukakis where losing/leading in the polls at this time - another fact.
Clinton is not inspiring - not a fact but pretty undeniable.
procon
(15,805 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)The election isn't until November.
procon
(15,805 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)That makes sense.
Stallion
(6,474 posts)because he will never be on the General Election Ballot
basselope
(2,565 posts)Is THIS the standard by which you are judging your vote totals?
Dear god.
basselope
(2,565 posts)trueblue2007
(17,203 posts)Bad person !!!
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)A: Making a prediction is not supporting. That shouldn't be hard to understand.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)They reacted the same way cause well Trump could not...turns out I was right.
As things stand right now....well I said my piece months ago. Settling down to enjoy the show. Not as good as Hamilton, more like the night of the living dead, but there is so much you can do.
trueblue2007
(17,203 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)In a recent poll, almost 20% of the Repubs polled said they'd vote for Clinton if Trump got the nomination. Now, we don't know what will happen at the convention but if Trump gets the nod, he loses almost 20% of his base.
That doesn't bode well for a winning outcome.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I will put my faith in Women, Black, Hispanics, the rank and file of the Democratic Party, and millennials who recognize Trump as a disaster for them.
It will be a hard-fought race, but we will win.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Or are you saying Dem voters will stay home??
cali
(114,904 posts)He's wildly undisciplined. His organization is no where near as proficient as hers. The repub party is split. Dems evidently have a ton on him that they haven't yet used. He's absurdly thin skinned and corporate America doesn't want him.
You have seen his numbers with minorities and women
We do vote and we will make sure those votes count
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)have some pity...
Okay, just kidding.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)...as the GOP have no chance of winning. So when President Sanders faces a flipped Senate, he can nominate a proper liberal.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Oh yes, it will happen.
Vinca
(50,255 posts)since when has Mitch McConnell and his GOP majority made any sense?
procon
(15,805 posts)This was GWB's great weakness in perpetually locking himself into these stupid "stay-the-course" announcements that locked him into one bad decision after the next to save face. McConnell's hatred of Obama has been his Achilles Heel. He cannot get out of the corner he's painted himself into by taking his uncompromisingly stubborn resistance to what was a routine duty. If he rightly does his job and holds an up/down vote on Obama's court nominee, the rabid Republican base will see it has a weakness and tear him apart in his next reelection, so he's stuck.
ananda
(28,856 posts)Trump is truly my dream GOP candidate.
Though I don't like Clinton much, she's lightyears better than Trump.
I hope the Reeps continue to block Garland so Clinton can appoint
a better SCOTUS judge.
Javaman
(62,510 posts)if you recall, recently, trump said he was interested in ted for the supremes.
this is the real reason, I believe, delusional ted dropped out.
Marr
(20,317 posts)a Hillary or Obama nominee on financial/trade issues. So they have nothing to gain by stalling now, and much to lose.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Trump will not buck them because he needs the Judicial Branch to bypass the Legislative Branch. Republicans will wait on Trump.
former9thward
(31,970 posts)Ridiculous. Probably more conservative, if anything.