69 year old black woman in Virginia brought 4 forms of ID to polls & still couldn't vote

[kpete]

http://www.thenation.com/article/its-now-harder-to-vote-in-virginia-because-the-supreme-court-gutted-the-voting-rights-act/

[Agschmid]

1. This sucks.

[Baobab]

22. it really does. Bernie woud never allow this and has a better chance at winning in November.

o way can I vote for HRC after what shes done

[Agschmid]

24. Thanks for dragging in the GDP.

It apparently permeates everywhere now.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

27. I'm with Agschmid, keep these comments in GDP where they belong. nt

[trueblue2007]

48. it really does. Hillary would never allow this and has a better chance at winning in November.

[Maeve]

64. The president really has no say in this matter

The states set their own rules for voting (within guidelines as set by federal law and the judgment of the courts). The Justice Dept. has limited jurisdiction and must work thru the rest of the system--only a dictator could be expected to "not allow this" and we're not there. Yet.

[SusanLarson]

135. Preemption

time for the federal government to exercise preemption

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

[Maeve]

137. "The laws of the United States" as they stand now

Allow for the states to make the rules on voting eligibility and the SCOTUS voided the law that allows the Executive branch to over-ride easily. You need to change the Congress and re-balance the court to do what you and the other poster are suggesting.

[Travis_0004]

151. that would be a violation of the 10th ammendment

It would be thrown out by the supreme court.

Its also a bad law, it would overturn states that allow marajuana, as well as have a bunch of other consequences.

[gollygee]

80. This is all about the SCOTUS and not really about the President

The SCOTUS gutted the voting rights act. This is the result.

[KittyWampus]

97. THIS is what voter suppression looks like. Not the bogus crap Sanders and his followers

are pretending.

To drag the Primary into this is disgusting.

As is trying to imply similar is happening to Sanders supporters at the polls.

[yardwork]

148. The president has no say over Virginia's voter id law.

The most impact a president can have is through appointment of Supreme Court justices. All the justices appointed by Democrats - including Bill Clinton - opposed these laws. All the justices appointed by Republicans voted to allow these laws.

[SamKnause]

2. I am so sick of everything in this country

being so fucked up and unfair !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Baobab]

34. well in a few years there wont be anything like that, the machine will just recognize her face.

no id required anywhere. No money either. Everything will be deducted from your balance.

[BlueCaliDem]

3. Another practical and personal reason to ensure that we have a Democratic Senate and a Democratic

president. We simply can't afford to have a Republican president and Republican-controlled Senate to choose the next three to four SCOTUS justices.

We NEED to reinstate Section 4 of the VRA. This is more important to our democracy than income inequality or whatever other pet-peeve, and unlike domestic policy, choosing fair justices is something that the president not only can do, but has the obligation under the U.S. Constitution to fulfill.

[WinkyDink]

4. Wait; didn't Ralph Nader say there's no difference between the Parties? Yeah, haven't forgotten.

[FSogol]

5. The voter id law in VA was passed by the Republicans and just went into effect now.

So, yeah, there is a difference between the parties.

[awoke_in_2003]

6. Exactly...

between that, marriage equality, and reproductive rights, we cannot lose the SC.

[BlueCaliDem]

16. So painfull true. If we lose the SCOTUS, it's over for equal and civil rights in this country.

We just can't afford to have that happen - not after all the hard work President Obama has put into motion and has already accomplished.

People really, really need to understand that we have very important elections every year, not just once in four years.

I hope, sincerely hope, that Democrats pound this message and break through GOP-complicit U.S. Media so that people can hear it.

[awoke_in_2003]

41. What is frustrating...

is that our party leadership doesn't take local elections as seriously as the GOP does. In traditionally GOP areas, the party says "why bother". The GOP seems to work harder to break into new areas. And it starts at the PTA and works its way up from there.

[BlueCaliDem]

57. It *is* frustrating, and I've watched, with growing shock, how the Dem Party leadership hasn't done

much in the way of educating the American voters that in order to improve their lives, we need to take control of Congress, yes, but also vote in each and every election for Democrats (arguably, the only major political Party that has defeated the Republican Party). If we take our ball and go home every time a Democrat doesn't do as we say, we're only leaving the field open for Republicans to come rushing in and taking control. I don't understand why so many self-proclaimed Liberals don't understand that reality-based fact.

[awoke_in_2003]

72. If I took my ball and went home...

every time my chosen candidate didn't win (or second or third) I may have never voted in my life. The people who end up doing this are going to put Trump in the White House. We dismiss that jack ass at our own peril.

[BlueCaliDem]

78. Spot on, awoke. As an Ameican citizen, it's my duty to vote for people who will represent ALL of

the people in this country. It is my civic duty to vote in ALL elections, even for a singular election for the board of a local college (which I've done and what was the only race in that election!).

In 2012, our Senator Feinstein was up for re-election. She had a primary challenger, Mike Strimling. I'm not a huge fan of the right-of-center Democratic Senator in my State and voted for Strimling in the primary. My candidate, unfortunately, wasn't chosen. But I didn't pout and wail and whine that i wasn't going to vote for Senator Feinstein. I understand that this isn't about me. It's about my State and my country. So I didn't take my ball and march off the field. I voted for Senator Feinstein and advised my group of millennials to do the same, and she won easily.

[Baobab]

50. what hard work?

We lost the VRA.

Trade deals give huge chunks of the policy space away, never to return.

Thats the real reason our health care is so screwed up, you know.

[BlueCaliDem]

56. Democrats don't need to ask that stupid question, "what hard work". If you don't know his ground-

breaking accomplishments by now, you're either a Republican, a Teapublican, or just not very political unless it's to tear down the Democratic Party for the Republicans.

Section 4 of the VRA was struck down in 2013 - almost two years after the call-out by "liberals" to teach the Democratic Party " a lesson" and told them to stay home. They heeded the call and stayed home, giving the House to the GOP and taking seats from Dems in the Senate. In other words, weakening President Obama's ability to get anything of huge consequence, done.

Elections have consequences, Baobob.

Trade deals has become the new Satan amongst leftists (and B.S. knows how to push buttons), but fact REMAINS, trade deals will proceed on the international stage with or without U.S. input. An economically strong country, say, like China, would then get to write the details and then you'll see real job-hemorrhaging the likes you can't comprehend at this moment. President Obama worked tirelessly and hard to ensure that didn't happen.

I really am tired having to debate with people who live in an isolationist economic world. First step for people like you who don't understand much about why we need trade pacts: understand that we're a GLOBAL economy now. Our prices, wages, job positions are contingent upon strong trade pacts. If we do as you want and retract, we only harm our workers, our environment, our labor, and our position in the world. it might give you that much more to complain about, but it doesn't help working families domestic nor foreign. I don't know about you, but I can't afford that.

[Baobab]

62. There is so much wrong with what you said that i don't know where to start.

why don't you look at the URLs in my profile text below

[BlueCaliDem]

65. Well, there's so much wrong with how you think that maybe, just maybe, you need to accept that

we're not going to go back in time.

We're not going to sell goods and services solely to the American consumer. We have ObamaCare. Is it perfect? Heck no. But it was hard-fought with lots of Democrats losing their seats for supporting it.

Anyway, I have no inclination to read your links. They appear to be from questionable and/or outdated sources. I'm sorry, but reading a health care report from 2007, three years after ObamaCare came into effect, makes that source outdated and irrelevant. We have to talk future, not past. That sets us apart from Republicans...well, it sets me apart from Republicans.

[Baobab]

84. ACA has done very little to reduce uninsurance or underinsurance

I could have told you - and in fact did predict that this would happen, and it did.


Effect of the Affordable Care Act on Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Health Insurance Coverage

Thomas C. Buchmueller, PhD, Zachary M. Levinson, MPP, Helen G. Levy, PhD, and Barbara L. Wolfe, PhD

Thomas C. Buchmueller is with Ross School of Business, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. Zachary M. Levinson is with the Departments of Economics and Health Management and Policy, University of Michigan. Helen G. Levy is with the Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan. Barbara L. Wolfe is with the Department of Economics and Lafollette School of Public Policy, University of Wisconsin, Madison.
Correspondence should be sent to Thomas C. Buchmueller, PhD, Ross School of Business, University of Michigan, 701 Tappan St, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 (e-mail: [e-mail]). Reprints can be ordered at http://www.ajph.org by clicking the “Reprints” link.

CONTRIBUTORS

All authors contributed to the analysis and the writing of the article.

ABSTRACT

Objectives. To document how health insurance coverage changed for White, Black, and Hispanic adults after the Affordable Care Act (ACA) went into effect.

Methods. We used data from the American Community Survey from 2008 to 2014 to examine changes in the percentage of nonelderly adults who were uninsured, covered by Medicaid, or covered by private health insurance. In addition to presenting overall trends by race/ethnicity, we stratified the analysis by income group and state Medicaid expansion status.

Results. In 2013, 40.5% of Hispanics and 25.8% of Blacks were uninsured, compared with 14.8% of Whites. We found a larger gap in private insurance, which was partially offset by higher rates of public coverage among Blacks and Hispanics. After the main ACA provisions went into effect in 2014, coverage disparities declined slightly as the percentage of adults who were uninsured decreased by 7.1 percentage points for Hispanics, 5.1 percentage points for Blacks, and 3 percentage points for Whites. Coverage gains were greater in states that expanded Medicaid programs.

Conclusions. The ACA has reduced racial/ethnic disparities in coverage, although substantial disparities remain. Further increases in coverage will require Medicaid expansion by more states and improved program take-up in states that have already done so. (Am J Public Health. Published online ahead of print May 19, 2016: e1–e6. doi:10.2105/AJPH.2016.303155)

[fasttense]

33. We had a Democratic a president and congress when Obama first went into office

And what did we get for it? A bailout for the uber rich banksters and a 2 year tax cut extension for them.

[frazzled]

144. The president does NOT have the ability to control state voting laws

S/he can only (possibly, if the opportunity arises, which happens rather rarely) appoint Supreme Court Justices who would deem these state laws unconstitutional. Obama appointed two such justices when openings became available. He currently is being blocked on the third--which could turn the balance of the court in favor of striking down such stringent voter suppression laws. S/he could also speak out about it (i.e., use the bully pulpit). Obama has done so repeatedly, for those who listen. But speaking does not make it so.

And no, Bernie Sanders would not--could not--do anything more about it either. Besides, I can assure you this Southern lady was not intending to vote for Bernie Sanders. African American voters in South Carolina (and especially black women voters, and especially older black women voters) went overwhelmingly for Hillary in SC. Hillary Clinton wanted this woman to be able to vote. Republican-led South Carolina does not.

[Baobab]

38. People have to have a place to live to be able to vote, right?

To live somewhere they have to have a job or income of some kind, right?

there is no right to "live" in any particular place or country, even, just to be treated equally.

No right to food or water or a job, unless you are in jail, and for the second, "duly convicted" of a crime and enslaved.

people do have a right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The US is fighting against rights to education and health care internationally. (because we allege public healthcare and education steals profits from corporations.)

[BlueCaliDem]

67. Yes.

To live somewhere they have to have a job or income of some kind, right?

Not necessarily. Plenty of unemployed people living with family just to get on their feet when they finally do find a job.

there is no right to "live" in any particular place or country, even, just to be treated equally.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

No right to food or water or a job, unless you are in jail, and for the second, "duly convicted" of a crime and enslaved.

So...we don't have a social safety net? Is that what you're trying to tell me? That under the law, you don't have a right to unemployment benefits, S.S., an income, WiC, S.S.I., Medicare, Medicaid, or affordable health care and health care insurance? If you believe that, you might need a refresher on some of policies that's been written into law and strengthened, thanks to President Obama and Democrats.

people do have a right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Yep.

The US is fighting against rights to education and health care internationally. (because we allege public healthcare and education steals profits from corporations.)

Uh...okay.

[Baobab]

69. yup

read URLs below

[BlueCaliDem]

77. Nope. Outdated info doesn't help me. Sorry. eom

[scscholar]

76. Good point to bring up the job part

Federal law does not allow her to take a job because of the oppressive requirements of the I-9. We've had several people we've made job offers to that couldn't meet the I-9 requirements.

[kairos12]

7. Preview of what is to come in November. Dark money and voter suppression is the rethug strategy.

[Calista241]

120. If you don't think Hillary will go negative to suppress Trump's voter turnout

Then I have a bridge to sell you.

[ileus]

8. I used my current VA drivers.

[Helen Borg]

9. Needs all 5!

[Kang Colby]

10. Why did she let her Virginia DMV card expire?

I actually support voter ID laws...it helps cut down on shenanigans.

All she needed was an unexpired VA DMV card or unexpired VA drivers license. That's not too much to ask since you generally need government issued photo ID to perform routine functions like banking, renting a hotel room or rental car, purchasing an airline ticket, etc.

[malaise]

13. What shenanigans?

When you go to an ATM - you get a receipt which is more than you get from a Voting machine with or without an ID. Those are the shenanigans that should concern you - the rest is minute.

I will never forget the shenanigans in Ohio in 2004 - suddenly exit polls didn't work and then the ReTHUG ITman Mike Connell just went...dead.

[Botany]

20. Mike Connell's handy work 2004 Cincinnati, OH

[malaise]

31. When I added my post

I hadn't seen your response to another DUer -freaking perfect

[Takket]

112. what exactly am I looking at here? Kerry votes going to this Cobb person?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

117. I'm wondering the same thing n/t

[Botany]

130. It is called a "man in the middle" scam

They were using a third party candidate as a place to store votes and then
later on they would calculate how many votes would be needed to be flipped
and or removed in order for w bush to win the state.

[ericson00]

15. well said

but dissent on such things is not allowed...

tho for voting, expiration potentially should not be a disqualifier, if the rest of the info checks out.

[mwooldri]

17. Not needed for a lot of things....

Banking generally needs your bank card, not ID. It's not routine to go into a bank anymore. Also if you bank with a certain small bank or credit union and you go in regularly then the staff get to know you and that dispenses with that ID requirement. Bank rules mean that you must "know your customer" not "demand your customers whip out ID cards every time for every transaction".

Renting a hotel room... the hotel would have accepted her NC driver's license, but then there are hotels who don't go over that ID thing really carefully anyway.

Renting cars and buying airplane tickets are routine for very frequent travelers only. Plus these people are more likely to have an up to date passport too. I'm going to bet that the last time she flew or rented a car was probably in the 20th century. I could be wrong.

As a permanent resident, I carry ID at all times... if one reads the fine print of the law I could be charged with a misdemeanor for not being able to produce on demand my permanent resident card to a lae enforcement officer. The number of times I have had to whip out my ID this year? Zero.

As for supporting voter ID laws... I think that voter registration, not voting itself has holes in it that need closing. Virginia's voter ID law is tougher than North Carolina's - which now has voter ID requirements. In NC she could have signed an affidavit and voted.

[Kang Colby]

18. I think that's a well thought out and well written response. Kudos to you.

But I disagree with the notion that requesting .gov issued photo ID is unreasonable. It's meant to protect the integrity of the process.

[truebluegreen]

96. That's a favorite Republican talking point you are pushing there.

Here's a study that indicates just how big the threat to the the integrity of the process isn't:

Money quote, and headline is: A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast

One Billion votes; 31 credible incidents of fraud = .0000031% (or maybe I misplaced a few decimal points--I don't think it makes a whole lotta difference)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/

https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/truth-about-voter-fraud

[Kang Colby]

98. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to voter fraud.

With a simple Google search I can find hundreds of convictions for voter fraud. It's a serious crime, I'm not sure why some people like to downplay it.

I do agree that election fraud in the United States is a myth...but not voter fraud.

[truebluegreen]

104. "Hundreds of convictions" out of how many votes?

And in how many elections were the results flipped as the result of voter fraud? Links please, from the magic Google machine.

And, at the same time, you do agree (with whom, one wonders) that election fraud in the US is a myth. Nothing to see there, right? Suppressing the vote by any means is not an issue; exit polls that don't match the machine count are not an issue; "lost" or discarded ballots are not an issue? Um, OK. 'Nuff said.

[Baobab]

106. Could you supply some links?

I think its basically a made up excuse they use for voter nullification

[truebluegreen]

118. +1

It is exactly that. By. Design. Admittedly so.

[immoderate]

152. You are citing "election fraud" — not voter fraud.

I challenge you to find an instance where a voter impersonation would have been prevented by application of an ID law. It just doesn't happen. You are preventing millions of people from exercising their right to vote. Incidentally, most of those vote Democrat.

--imm

[WillowTree]

66. Ah. So you didn't actually read the article.

"She was ultimately given a provisional ballot, which was only counted after Okiakpe obtained a valid voter ID in Manassas days after the election."

She did cast a vote which ultimately did count.

She showed up with a whole bunch of identification, but not the one required by law. Which she was able to obtain. Whether you agree with voter ID laws or not, when one's in place, it kind of makes sense to do what's required if you really want to vote.

[mwooldri]

95. You got me. Yup. Tl;dr. Guilty as charged. Nt

[LadyHawkAZ]

21. They cost, for one thing

For another, I don't know what VA requires as proof of address but in UT I needed 2 pieces of approved mail (bills or bank statements, excludes cellphone bills) to show you really live there.

Make a basic ID that's free and easy to obtain and I'm totally with you on this.

[KeepItReal]

26. Name one instance where someone committed voter fraud.

[Kang Colby]

29. See link below.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=voter+fraud+cases

[Agony]

54. you mean this one? or right wing crap you are pushing redstate/republicanlawyers/discoverthenetworks

https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud Myth of Voter Fraud

maybe you think that people here are too stupid here to notice the right wing crap you are pushing.

[KeepItReal]

70. If there were that paltry number of cases, would that justify mass purges and new ID requirements?

Purges and onerous ID requirements (like no college ID allowed) that have kicked thousands upon thousands of legally registered voters off the rolls?

I'm sure you are also down with closing all those polling centers on election day, because you gotta save money, right?

[Akamai]

139. Bullshit that voter fraud is a big deal! Let's say 300 people committed it, but 1.3 million may be

stopped from voting because of "solutions" offered by voter suppression techniques! Clearly the solutions are not intended to strengthen voter rights, because they will enfranchisement to many voters unnecessarily.

What the hell is the bigger evil? 1.3 million voters losing their voting rights -- and being so disheartened they don't show up to the polls -- or as many as 300 million people voting when they shouldn't? (probably evenly distributed about Republicans and Democrats, although recent records indicate that Republicans have been more likely to do this).

Take a look at: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/20/voter-suppression-could-stop-1-3-million-from-voting-in-swing-states.html for a story on this issue.

Go Bernie!

[Kang Colby]

145. What's your point exactly?

Even if it's not a problem now (I think it is), I don't thnk we should wait until it is a problem. You don't think the tea party folks abuse this?

[Akamai]

153. you clearly have an agenda, to deny people voting. Voter impersonation has never, ever been a major

problem, not when those who impersonate voters face years in prison.

I'm not even sure you are Hillary supporter--perhaps you are simply a Republican trying to sow seeds of dissent.

I remember when President Bush (shrub) tried searching for voter impersonators and could not find more than a handful. On the other hand, disenfranchising 1.3 million voters--or even disheartening them to the extent that maybe if they go to the polls, the votes won't count--will have a devastating impact on the beating heart of democracy--Voting.

Here in Oregon, we want every legal citizen to vote--even those release from prison. We vote by mail, from the comfort of our homes, and as a result, our participation in voting is extremely high.

Washington state also has embraced vote-by-mail and has greatly benefited by it.

Go BERNIE!

[WillowTree]

157. I take it you've never heard of Chicago.

[Baobab]

32. Maybe she doesn't own a car and has no transportation to the DMV which is several towns away?

getting an ID isnt an emergency, she may need to save her favors for things like health emergencies. A taxi might cost a lot of money

[Kang Colby]

35. But yet she can make it to her voting precinct.

The fact she had four forms of ID is nonsense if none of them were legally acceptable forms of voter identification. If I walked in there with 100 forms of ID and none of them were legally acceptable it wouldn't matter. You can't use SS cards, phone bills, electric bills, cable bills, property deeds, mail, fishing licenses, and all of that stuff. You need one VA government issued photo ID. She had an expired VA DMV card and a valid NC drivers license. That is suspicious and it would appear to me that she is more likely to be a NC resident. I would have called the authorities if I were working the polls that day.

[Baobab]

40. which is usually within walking distance.

You're not getting it.

[Kang Colby]

43. I was updating my response as you replied.

I get it. You seem to believe that we should enable voter fraud.

[Baobab]

49. No, just that we should bend over backwards to make sure that ALL AMERICANS can vote honestly

We should make it as easy as can be and people who don't have transport even should be able to get a ride.

If there are problems the voting should be extended until they are fixed.

[Kang Colby]

51. We do allow voting by mail in plenty of locations.

I agree with most of your post btw. I just think we need voter ID laws to protect the integrity of the vote.

[truebluegreen]

119. 31 cases of voter fraud in 1 BILLION votes cast.

Your concern for protecting the integrity of the vote by voter ID laws is noted.

[Kang Colby]

121. There have been hundreds of convictions over the last few years. Your WaPo blog post is flawed.

Use Google. This site alone links back to over 200 articles involving different cases. http://www.electionintegritywatch.com/be-informed/news-stories/

[truebluegreen]

122. OK. Let's change the title to "Hundreds of convictions for voter fraud

in ONE BILLION votes cast."

Orders of magnitude different.

But I salute you for your brave defense of a solution in search of a problem...you and your pals at electionintegritywatch "a joint project of Minnesota Majority, Minnesota Voters Alliance, Freedom Council and the Northstar Tea Party Patriots."

[Kang Colby]

124. In some of those cases, thousands of instances of voter fraud was reported.

The bottom line is that Virginia has a good law, and it appears to be working. No photo issued government ID, no vote.

[truebluegreen]

125. Reported by whom? Tea Partiers? Nice company you keep

and totally, totally credible. http://www.electionintegritywatch.com/about/

Given your views on voter ID, I am totally not surprised that you cite those guys. And fyi, "reported" is meaningless. People "report" stupid shit all the time. IMO, your "report" of rampant voter fraud and the dire need to protect the integrity of the vote is a case in point.

[Kang Colby]

127. You are trying to poison the well.

You know that the purpose of my post had nothing to do with that site itself. The page I linked provides links to regular news sources. I posted that link out of convenience for both of us.

I support voter ID laws. No ID, no vote.

[truebluegreen]

128. You've done that already, link or no link.

I couldn't care less what you support. Bye.

[Kang Colby]

129. Thanks for the conversation. We simply have a difference of opinion..and there is nothing wrong with

that.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

52. There are DMVs all over Northern Virginia

Many accessible via buses and/or subway.

[WillowTree]

71. If you read the article.......

.......you'd know that she did manage to get to wherever she needed to in order to get the ID, so, it may or may not have been somewhat inconvenient, but it wasn't impossible. Which leads me to believe that she could have done so before election day. Not blaming her. Could be that someone told her that what she had would be sufficient and she didn't know any different. But the law still applies, even if she was misinformed.

I'm glad that she got to vote. And now she knows.......and has.......what she really needs to bring with her when she goes to vote in the future.

[passiveporcupine]

39. You support voter ID laws?

What a surprise. You also have a yellow button.

Buh Bye!

plonk

[Kang Colby]

45. Sure do.

I think voter ID requirements are sensible.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

42. So long as states provide free photo ID

I have no issue with requiring photo ID either. Her VA ID had to have been expired for at least two years, yet she had a valid NC license? Yeah, I would have had question about whether or not she was a valid voter in the state of Virginia.

I'm betting that if they checked, she's still registered to vote in NC as well.

[Baobab]

102. I dont think its free- It should be

It should not contain RFID tags either. Some do.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

105. Photo voter ID in Virginia is free n/t

[gollygee]

81. You'd be surprised how many Americans don't use regular banks, and never rent cars,

Never stay in hotel rooms, and nevery fly.

[The Straight Story]

99. That's just dumb. I'm sorry, but it is.

How many people do you know that, per day, go to the bank, rent a hotel room or a car, and purchase an airline ticket?

You don't even have to answer that. Reason being is that most people don't do all those things even weekly, or monthly.

They buy things online, they take busses, get money out at atm, swipe card at stores (only had one ask me for id that I can recall)

I've gotten by 4 years with no ID and only needed to have it once (fishing license) but because I had one in the past I got it anyway.

Just remember, most people in the US aren't busy running about traveling all the time. They are poor, can't rent cars, and don't often go on planes.

[Kang Colby]

100. Oh, the hardship of having a state issued photo ID.

[The Straight Story]

108. I see you are trying to deflect from things, I understand, easier than actual, intelligent, talking

You see, people I have known, and at times myself included, would need a state id for one thing and one thing only.

Voting.

Already have a bank account. Don't drive. Don't fly. Many people don't even think about having an ID.

But then they have to spend money to vote.

We get it. You don't trust your fellow americans, at all. And you think all those poor folks are going to do is spend their time and money going from poll to poll waiting in 4 hour lines to vote more than once.

Try out reality sometime, instead of wanting things done out of your fears.

It is liberating to the mind.

[Kang Colby]

110. What's that have to do with anything?

Virginia has a state law requiring a Virginia issued photo ID to vote. She chose not to vote when she showed up at the polls with the wrong forms of identification.

That's not deflection. I just don't support nonsense or people who can't follow very basic instructions.

[The Straight Story]

113. Oh?

The point is people here are complaining about a law and its effects.

Your pat answer is - "quit yer bitching and obey"

How many people do you think actually read the news everyday and are on message boards, etc?

either way, people are upset that they changed a system that was working and made it more difficult for some people.

So they post an example of it. And people ask why did it change and why should we put up with said change?

How many elections in your life (I am 50) went just fine with how the system was?

And the only reasons it changed were fear that was pushed on mindless masses (aka conservatives) and a desire to take advantage of people who aren't in the mainstream of life and would most likely (not always) vote democrat.

[Kang Colby]

114. You and I have a philosophical disagreement...

and that's ok. I would just rather states verify that eligible voters are the only folks voting.

[The Straight Story]

115. Indeed we do. I don't see all americans as potential criminals and fraudulent voters

Some people do.

[Kang Colby]

116. I don't either...we agree on that point. eom

[ET Awful]

134. So tell me - how often does a poor black woman nearing 70 rent a hotel room, rent a car or fly?

Please elaborate.

[Kang Colby]

136. How do you know she is poor? Thanks. n/t

[ET Awful]

155. Simple - if she were wealthy, she'd likely have the ID and easy access to it. n/t

[Kang Colby]

156. She had a valid NC drivers license AND an expired VA license yet she claimed to be a VA resident.

How does that make any sense?

[ET Awful]

160. May come as a shock to you, but sometimes people move. n/t

[Kang Colby]

162. You didn't read the story...lol.

She claimed to be a VA resident with a VA expired DL, but she had an unexpired NC DL.

You are right people move. That's why we need voter ID laws...so we can ensure people are voting in the right location under the correct name.

Trust but verify.

[ET Awful]

174. So I guess it's beyond your understanding that somebody could move to NC

say to be near family or something, then move back.

Here's a scenario for you - Grandma moves to NC to live with family for a few years, maybe there's a newborn grandchild she's helping care for, maybe there's a sick member of the family she helps take care of. By law, she's required to get a NC drivers license if she takes up residence there and will be driving. She's a law abiding citizen, so she does so. Technically, this automatically voids her license in another state, but regardless, she still has a license for VA that expires while she's living with her family in NC.

Then, she moves home and someone like you decides that well now, she shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Your desire to deny people their rights is astounding.

[Kang Colby]

175. That version of events reminds me of a Disney story.

I support voter ID requirements. You don't. That's fine, but my position on this is set in stone. I'm proud that VA protects the integrity of the vote.

[ET Awful]

176. All I see is someone who has bought into a mythological boogieman argument that has no basis in fact

or reality.

You quite obviously are personally invested in right-wing ideology.

The "integrity of the vote" is at zero risk from a 69 year old lady.

If you want to protect the integrity of the vote, start worrying about easily manipulated voting machines that are proven to be easily hacked and altered.

[alarimer]

140. Some people don't do any of those things.

There are very, very few instance of voting fraud. These laws are intended to suppress the vote, since the people they mainly affect are those who tend to vote Democratic.

And, by the way, getting one of those cards is not really all that easy. Alabama, for instance, closed a bunch of DMV offices, no coincidence I'm sure.

You seem to be blithely unaware of the actual issues. No surprise there, considering your avatar.

I see everyone is trying to educate you on the issue but you refuse to listen to reason, but instead recycle right-wing talking point over and over again.

[Kang Colby]

146. It's OK that I have a different opinion than you and others.

I just don't think having a government issued photo ID is this awful burden that people are making it out to be. We already require people to be registered in order to vote. The ID just allows some degree of validation that they are who they say they are.

We should not allow people to vote on behalf of uncle Cletus or cousin Tony.

[ibegurpard]

180. No its not OK

Because your "opinion" is propping up unnecessary and harmful voter disenfranchisement.

[Kang Colby]

182. That is simply your opinion.

I don't consider showing an easy to obtain, basic form of ID, voter disenfranchisement....and neither does the Supreme Court.

[Ilsa]

170. Maybe she doesn't need a hotel room, rental car,

Air line ticket. Apparently her bank was fine with her ID.

So what if the dmv card was expired. It still would have her picture on it, identifying her. My father let his DL go when he stopped driving, and he just used his expired license for ID.

These laws are designed to prevent people with little disposable income from voting. Also college students. It is an answer to a problem that does not exist. Don't be snookered into believing that voter fraud is an issue.

[Botany]

11. Republicans know if the people are allowed to vote they will be out of power

Voter ID laws are ment to suppress the vote of people who tend to democratic
but they are "sold" as a solution to a problem that does not exist and that is
people voting twice. I hope Josephine Okiakpe gets a lawyer and sues the hell
out of the PTB who kept her from voting.


BTW voter fraud doesn't happen but election fraud does happen.

2004 Lucus County, OH (Toledo) screen capture from Sec. of State's Office.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

44. She did vote n/t

[Botany]

74. Yes after lots of unneeeded bull crap

I wonder how many voters get frustrated by these actions and just
leave w/out voting?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

79. We'll agree to disagree

that having a valid out of state license and an invalid in state ID is "unneeded bull crap". Her validity as in-state voter should have been questioned.

Her in-state ID had been expired for at least two years - she had plenty of time to renew it.

[Botany]

88. Voter ID laws have one purpose and that is to surpress democratic voter turn out.

A study looked @ 1 billion votes and found that people voting twice just does not
happen and that is the reason republicans give on why we need voter ID laws.

[Trajan]

154. Well ... Aren't you fancy?

I love when purported 'Democrats' start talking like hard core Tea Party Republicans ...

I love it so much, I have to block such individuals, because I don't deserve to be so fucking happy ...

"Papers? ... "

Click!

[Igel]

12. I'd have looked askance at her ID.

I have a BC and SS card that shows I'm a citizen, but if I vote locally (meaning "anywhere&quot I need to show that I'm a local resident. Neither does that, they've been valid in half a dozen states.

After that she had a presumably valid NC drivers license, showing her place of residence ... presumably in NC. And an expired VA DMV card. Reasonable inference: She moved from VA to NC and wanted to retain her VA voter registration, or perhaps she neglected to register to vote in NC and wanted to vote someplace. But "someplace" should be local, since most primaries also include local elections. Why should a NC resident vote in local VA elections? Even if she had recently moved, it pays to understand that the US does not have national elections. We have state-level elections. Esp. when it comes to presidential primaries.

When I moved from Oregon to California I knew to get a new drivers license to establish residency. I rightly had no say in Eugene local elections at that point.

BTW, it took over a year for me to get all the various statements forwarded to me by the USPS sent to the right address. So a local bank statement sent to my old address would have been fairly meaningless. Well, no. It would have been misleading, and fraudulent if I had used it as evidence of my current address.

Then again, I'm a bit rule bound. When I moved from one side of Eugene, OR, to the other side and didn't update my registration, I didn't vote. Too many local elections at stake.

When my roommate moved from Eugene to Roseburg, he returned to his old precinct to vote. Yes, he had sufficient ID to "establish" himself as a current resident of south Eugene, even though he lived an hour's drive away in a different city. That's what happens when you move fairly close to an election or neglect to update your registration. (This was years ago, before all the concern about voter fraud. Like my old roommate committed. He never voted in the truly local elections, as far as I know, just state and national elections, so there was no foul. Just the de jure crime of voter fraud.)

As it was Okiakpe got valid ID. Presumably it's something she'd have done soon enough anyway. Had to do much in a modern society with a strong central government without government-issued ID.

[WillowTree]

73. Oh.......stop making sense.

[UCmeNdc]

14. That's The Good Ole USA for you

No such thing as a right to vote.

[Maeve]

19. In Ohio, the bank statement probably would have worked

But none of the other forms would have been accepted. BC and SS don't give her current address and the voter card doesn't count, either (it's a circular thing--the BOE can't accept it's own registration as proof of anything but that someone of that name is registered and the voter roll already has that info). And expired or out-of-state driver's licenses don't count either.

However, if the bank statement has her name and current address on it and is no more than one year old, it's acceptable as proof of residence in Ohio. And she still would have been able to vote provisionally (and it would have counted) just by providing the last four digits of her SS#.

[SusanCalvin]

23. All this to fix a "problem" that never existed,

While, I have no doubt, election fraud will continue unchecked. Especially in places that still have those lovely, HAVA-installed electronic paperless wonders.

[pansypoo53219]

25. that is BULLSHIT. even an EXPIRED license should fucking work. fucking supreme court

this is THEIR dred scott.

where is the JUSTICE dept???

[ChisolmTrailDem]

28. We are totally and completely screwed. Our system is completely and profoundly broken. nt

[malaise]

37. Funny story

I went to vote at my usual polling station here in Jamaica. My voter ID card expired two elections ago but the notices said if you don't have your card or if it has expired, you have to have your finger print taken and dip your finger in ink after voting. Cool I said - then she proceeded to find my name which was obviously there - so she apparently can't find me and one of the other agents sees me name and address and showed her. Madame looks at me and says well you had long here in that photo - my response was so what. What was funnier was that other persons working the elections greeted me by name.

People love power

[Maeve]

61. The reason an expired license isn't accepted

Is that it is at least 3-4 years old (depending on the state) and not necessarily accurate anymore. We think of them as "ID's" but they are actually address confirmations as much as personal identification. (Not defending VA, but giving part of the rationale. Ohio has less stringent laws that allow most people to cast a vote even without picture ID, but we can't accept expired ID, either. However, we accept valid picture ID with an old address as long as the right addy is in the voting book because it costs money to get a new license)

[redwitch]

30. People snickered?

What the fuck is wrong with us? This country needs to stop suppressing votes. Now! I feel horrible for her.

[braddy]

36. She did vote didn't she? I also usually get a provisional ballot, but that is voting.

[jtuck004]

143. It's not voting. It's asking some asshole for permission - they can throw it away, not count it,

whatever the rules say.

tt is not equal to voting as if you were respected, as if you were white.

[braddy]

150. Except that she did vote, and it counts, I always get a provisional ballot myself, like she did.

[jtuck004]

164. If it is a provisional ballot that decision is made outside of your presence. Your talk is air. n/t

[braddy]

166. Wrong, a provisional ballot is a valid vote, and I almost always use a provisional ballot myself.

[jtuck004]

167. Do I need to say the word "provisional" slower for you?

I notice you use the standard denialist phrasing...so, you won't have anything else I need to read.

bye. lol.

[braddy]

168. Like I said, for years all my votes have been provisional, it merely means that they will be checked

further to make sure it was a legal vote.

If you get an absentee ballot for example and choose to show up to vote in person, then you will get a provisional ballot, or if you stop to vote at a ballot place besides your own.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

46. This country has gone completely to shit. And all we have to hope for is Clinton or tRump...

...to save us.

[Baobab]

107. Hope that reincarnation exists

maybe you will be reincarnated as some completely unrelated, happy animal or plant.

[Liberal_in_LA]

47. Ugh

[w4rma]

58. Yup. It's the same argument that Clintonites have used to disenfranchise Sanders voters. (nt)

[reformist2]

59. My thoughts exactly. A lot of people didn't care about voter suppression during the primaries.

[WillowTree]

75. Apparently she didn't know the rules initially.

And when she found out what she needed, she got it.

[no_hypocrisy]

60. This demands a new strategy.

In tandem with registering voters, we have to have applications for drivers licenses and even accompany those applying to the DMV. We can't take for granted that until the laws change, we have to find a way to maintain, if not increase, the voter rolls with certified ID.

[question everything]

63. Sadly, we, may share the blame

I think it is time to revive the registration campaign of the sixties.

If we know that Virginia, and other states have such tough requirements, then we need to start sending volunteers - college kids, what are you doing this summer? - to visit all of these small towns and to make sure that individuals like Ms. Okiakpe will have the required ID.

Terry McAuliffe, where are you?

[-none]

68. 3rd world countries with illiterate and semi-literate populations don't have a problem with voting.

Why do we? Because we make a simple thing like voting very complicated. Why do we do that? The easier to rig the vote to get the "winner" our owners want. Take a look at the current Democratic primary for a case in point.
I think we need to institute the same techniques that these 3rd world countries use. Paper ballots, with pictures of the candidates besides the names and when you vote, you dip an index finger into the ink well. (Middle fingers works too.)

Get rid of the caucuses, delegates and the electoral college also. Direct voting, instant run offs. Yeah, we can do this, if we have a mind too.

[TeddyR]

82. Getting a DL isn't complicated

I live in VA and have a VA DL and haven't had any problem voting. I recognize that getting a DL is more difficult for some people than others, be it cost, getting to the DMV, or whatever, but the VA voter ID law is constitutional (according to the federal courts), so if you want to vote satisfy the law. And if you don't like the law then work to change it.

[-none]

85. Voting shouldn't be complicated either.

Why should someone who can't drive get a drivers license? How are they supposed to get there when many states shut down DMV around the state to save money?
Why are you for voter disenfranchisement? We should be making it easy to vote. Voter fraud is practically non existent. Why make it so hard to vote.
Election fraud, on the other hand is rampant. Fixing that is where we should be working to correct.

[WillowTree]

90. They shouldn't have to get a driver's license if they don't drive. And they don't.

I don't know of any state that requires a photo ID to vote, including Virginia, that doesn't also offer just a state photo ID. My state doesn't require a photo ID to vote, but still offers a non-driver's-license ID for people to use when ID is required to fly or any of a number of other reasons. So that strawman doesn't work.

And from what I hear, Virginia doesn't seem to be a state with too few DMV offices but even if it was, the fact is that people manage to get around for the things that are important to them. I realize that you oppose voter ID laws, but thinking up reasons that people can't comply with them when they're already in place doesn't help anyone. Your time would be better spend either fighting to get those that are on the books repealed or starting a volunteer service where people such as yourself could give one morning or afternoon per month to drive people who have difficulty getting around to get their IDs. Or both.

[TeddyR]

92. Can you point me to the part of my post that favored

"Voter disenfranchisement"? It is easy to vote - you show up and push a button. It is also easy to qualify to vote - you show up and present a state approved ID - the ID requirement isn't a secret and isn't difficult to get.

[-none]

126. During Primaries in closed primary states, many voters party preferences were flipped to Independent

or even Republican. They did not know until they showed up to vote and were refused. This happened in more than one state too.

[TeddyR]

83. Re your picture vote idea

Do you have any idea how much of a disaster that would be? Here in northern Virginia people might stand in line for hours just to vote on a machine, which is much quicker than having a picture next to every candidate (and sometimes there are several pages of issues). We'd never get the vote completed if we went to pictures/inkwells.

[-none]

86. You can put pictures/graphics on voting machines.

How would that slow down voting? Their name would be beside their pictures.
Never mind that most of the electronic voting machine are hacked anyway, being privately owned, programed, maintained and controlled by Republican owned companies.
We need to get rid of them all and use paper ballots. Accuracy over speed in the vote count. How did they do it before the electronic voting machines before 2000?

[senz]

89. Terrible oversight in the Bill of Rights. Should be rectified ASAP.

We do not have a "right" to vote. Maybe the founders thought it was obvious or maybe they were locked into an 18th century mindset.

But I think we understand how fundamental voting is to the preservation of all our other rights.

Has anyone started a petition to have the right to vote added to the Bill of Rights? Or simply added as an amendment to the Constitution? With appropriate verbiage to outlaw attempts to hinder people from exercising the right.

It needs to be done.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

94. The right to vote is already in the Constitution n/t

[senz]

101. I wish it were, but it's not. n/t

[SickOfTheOnePct]

103. Hmmm

so the 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th amendments, all of which reference the right to vote aren't part of the Constitution?

[senz]

109. Yes, odd, isn't it? And yet the right has not been constiutionally guaranteed.

There are discussions on the subject. Here's one. http://democracyjournal.org/magazine/28/the-missing-right-a-constitutional-right-to-vote/

It should be a priority.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

111. Yes, by all means

Nothing else in the country needs to be fixed, so let's waste time trying to pass an amendment to include a right to vote that is already included in the Constitution.

Awesome idea.

[ailsagirl]

91. Damnit!! Why is this crap still happening???

[TeddyR]

93. What sort of ID do you think is acceptable for voting?

I favor a valid state-issued ID from the state in which you wish to vote.

[gollygee]

123. If the state does the work of getting the IDs together and distributing them, fine.

But if people have to pay money to get them together, then it's a poll tax.

[alarimer]

142. Your voter registration card should be sufficient.

No other ID should be needed because there is no fucking voter fraud.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

131. What's it going to be like for the general election?

How many voters will be purged by then?

[valerief]

132. Of course, they wouldn't let her vote. She's black. That's the law in third world U.S. nt

[Mary Mac]

133. well if every Democratic lawyer could take one voting rigbts case to the courts.

We might lick this thing. Do it pro bono as your yearly charitable contribution

[heaven05]

138. confirms what I have suspected

we're in the 50's again where IF you don't have the requisite skin color you need to prove you have a right to vote. Virginia, it figures.

[jalan48]

141. Outrageous and very hurtful. But then, are we sure our votes are being counted anyway?

The mechanism for counting the votes is privately owned and not open to inspection. The entire process is outrageous.

[IWII]

147. VA election official here

I work in voter reg in VA, so I read this, and the comments with some interest. The election officials handled this well, imo. She did have a valid out of state license, after all, which we are all trained to see as a red flag, as maybe she isn't a registered voter. She was issued a provisional, got a free ID at the VR office, and had her ballot counted. Sorry she was inconvenienced, but her vote counted. Now she is all ready for November, or the June primary.

I don't have much an opinion about the Voter Id law, it's a rule we have to follow. However... VA is the one state that has had the law upheld because 1) Any voter can get a free, instant Voter ID at any VR office, regardless if they already have a form of picture ID. 2) Voters who can't get to the office can vote by mail-in absentee that does not require a photo ID 3) we phased the program in over two years with plenty of publicity.

Why does everyone think this is only to target people who would vote for Democrats? I've heard too many times that it is a suppression tactic, but if it does suppress any voter, and I have not seen any evidence it has, why do we assume they are old, poor, black, Democratic leaning, etc.? In our rural, poor locality, I have made some ID's for folks, and they come from every walk of life. Funny, the first I made were for well-to -do white ladies who vote R. A few younger people ,too. Yes, we do have poor people, black people and older people, but how can we tell who they are voting for?
I have a lot more to share about this, but let me give you a few anecdotes:

Older black man came into vote absentee and handed me a northern state's driver's license. No good. I asked if he had any other ID, knowing he was just in a few weeks ago and we made him one. He said no, so I reminded him, and he said he would go home and get it. Came back without it. I made him (another) temporary ID and he voted---R.

Was at a senior center doing outreach, and was trying to get interest in making ID's because my research pointed to this group as being the most likely not to have any, and when I asked if they needed photo ID's they gave me the stupid look, albeit very politely. One lady very patiently told me you have to have one nowadays to go to the Dr. or get medicine.

I have been lurking here for a while, but decided to enter the fray for this election season to help shed some light on discussions like this about voting. Obviously, I would rather not give too many details, only that I work in a VR office in a rural, poor area, but that's like a lot of VA. I will chime in on voting equiptment as well, because there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings, there ,too, like about receipts from the voting machine. So hang on and ask me just about anything!

Last anecdote: One of my career highs was making a photo ID for an elderly lady (100+) curbside and then sending her back to vote!

[FSogol]

149. Thanks for post and welcome to DU. n/t

[ailsagirl]

158. Thank you for taking the time to clear up some issues (or misconceptions)

It's always good having someone who is directly involved to weigh in.

Welcome to DU!!

[WillowTree]

159. "I made him (another) temporary ID and he voted---R."

Just as a matter of idle curiosity, how do you know how the man voted?

[gollygee]

161. You would know in a primary

Because you are given either a D or an R ballot.

[WillowTree]

165. Ah. An open primary state.

Thank you!

[IWII]

163. GollyGee is correct

Yep, it was a dual primary and he had to choose which ballot.

[Maeve]

169. Welcome and thanks for posting!

I work the elections in Ohio; voter ID required, somewhat different rules. The free ID is a wonderful thing. We don't need it as much in Ohio (other id available, as I mentioned in a post above), but I think it's a great idea. For the most part, I think it is the transition phase that is the worst and things get better after a few years. And how voters feel about their votes counting depends very much on how they are treated at the polls (so we smile, be nice and try not to snap back!)

As to why the assumption that the laws are to disenfranchise Dem voters--here's a few news stories that indicate the intent and result of such laws is to do just that...

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ex-staffer-wisconsin-gop-intended-id-law-disenfranchise-dems
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/10/voter-id-paper/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/8/1512565/-Republican-staffer-quit-because-colleagues-were-giddy-about-voter-ID-laws-preventing-votes

I would also suggest that since you come from a rural area, you are less likely to see some of the people most affected by some of the rules (urban poor have diferent problems). My experience is mostly with suburban folk with easy access to ID, but some of the younger people are more likely to have to vote provisionally and be discouraged for future votes (and it takes longer, because provisional is paper and has so many more rules and hoops to jump thru). I've heard nightmare stories from further in the city as well, altho I can't speak from experience there.
Again, thanks for bringing a practical and informed POV to the discussion!

[IWII]

171. I think the politicians are wrong, too

Maeve (pretty name btw. It was on the short list if we had had a daughter) I have seen those stories, but I think the pols who said those things are making those assumptions using the wrong stereotypes, too. The same wrong assumptions that people are making these days since our Governor expedited restoration of voting rights. Our office heard from quite a few people that McAulliffe did it so that Hillary would get 200,000 more votes. What a joke! I've had to shut down more than a few of these conversations by simply asking why they think that every former felon is a Democrat. And If they still want to go on, I remind them that our former governor, McDonnell, will need to have his rights restored someday. So I guess my point is, you never can tell what someone will do, or vote for!

[Maeve]

173. Thanks--we won't always agree

But then, what would be the point? I do know there have been efforts to suppress the college vote in some places and the kids tend to vote liberal rather than conservative. And I don't think that such attempts will work in the long run. At least, I hope not! Strongly approve of the restoration of voting rights, btw. Never did believe in eternal punishment of people; makes them less likely to re-integrate successfully (or want to).

And I chose the name for the boards in honor of the Irish warrior queen from the "Cattle Raid of Cooley". I got angry at the way the 2000 presidental election was handled and wanted to call myself after an Irishwoman who went to war over a lot of bull....

[Angry Dragon]

172. Politicians all say they want everyone to vote

BUT they make it harder for people to vote because they only want the right people to vote

[DustyJoe]

177. Anyone Know ?

What ID is required for the new South American refugee or Immigrant to vote ?
All I read lately is how the flood of immigrants are here for nothing other than voting, but how can they gain citizenship that quickly ? The naturalization process is long and complex, I know because I am naturalized. This 69 year old lifetime citizen with reams of supporting paperwork denied the right to vote in Virginia just makes one wonder how many not eligible get to cast a vote while she and her rights are thrown to the side.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

178. She wasn't denied the right to vote n/t