Poor? - Get some chickens - Bill Gates answer to poverty

[packman]

?w=960

Bill Gates has decided to tell people living in extreme poverty that the solution to their woes lies in raising chickens.

"The Gates Foundation, a charity run by Bill and his wife, has launched a drive to help 30 per cent of people in rural sub-Saharan Africa keep hens and roosters that have been vaccinated to keep them free of disease."

About to launch a barrage of Insensitivity Bullets at Bill's statement - but, he may be on the right track with good intentions.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1256098/keep-chickens-if-you-want-a-better-life-billionaire-bill-gates-tells-poor-people/

[hollysmom]

1. it is hard to have chickens when you can barely afford an apartment.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

3. These chickens would be in Sub-Sahara Africa.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Poor people in rural sub-Saharan Africa aren't living in apartments.

They are living in little huts in small villages, and the opportunity to raise chickens might actually be a good, useful thing for some people in those villages. Chickens - eggs or meat - are a source of protein where maybe not much is readily available. Will donating chickens cure world-wide poverty? No, but it might help some people and maybe doesn't deserve to be sneered at.

[jwirr]

23. Not to mention the fertilizer for any gardens they grow. I know

most of the world no longer knows that at least in the USA the manure from farm animals was how our ancestors fertilized their farms before all the chemicals. And it works - we are still doing it in our gardens to improve the soil.

Usually what Gates proposes is too corporate and high tech to work in third world countries but this will.

[Hortensis]

55. Yes. This is a very old and established form of aid.

Chickens have been all over Africa for centuries anyway, as well as most of the rest of the inhabited planet. At various times and places over decades, thousands of govermental and non-governmental agencies have been pushing chickens to help them become self sufficient again and improve nutrition.

Of course as populations urbanize, new locations and means have to be found. For those who care to. I remember years ago when LA County or City tried to put together a program to teach "poor" people to raise their own vegetables. I refused to participate, figuring those who needed it'd be a heck of a lot better off learning to use a word processing program, or do auto tuneups. You could live then on what that'd pay full time.

.

[felix_numinous]

2. The commons needs to be returned to the people

Public lands where public gardens can be planted, and resources and water can be preserved.

[Igel]

13. The original commons was destroyed

by the people.

As soon as a sufficient number start abusing the commons, a lot of others say, "If he can, why can't I?" Then the commons is on life support. That "sufficient number" is rather small.

The alternative is to have it as the property of the government, the cost of administering and maintaining it billed to one group and provided for the benefit of a set of chosen people. That, however, isn't a commons, which is for the common good. Not the "commoners'" good.

But just as a subset of the people have arrogated to themselves the name "the People," so a subset of the people have decided that what's good for them is the "common good."

[Warpy]

52. That's not what destroyed the commons

The idea, at least in England, was enforced by the monastery system, ensuring that the poorest person could afford to keep a sheep or goat and be able to feed it on common pasturage or pannage.

The destruction of the monastery system and its privatazation into the hands of the nobility, who then either grabbed the commons for their own use or threw the poor off the land completely so they could open more of it up for hunting, is what destroyed the commons.

That's how it's being done here, also, relentless privatization, taking it away from the people in general and turning it over to the richest, whether it's municipal water systems, electric companies, or park land.

It will take another revolution to wrest it back.

[Odin2005]

57. The various enclosure acts of the 1600s and 1700s.

Landowners got rid of their old feudal commons and replaced their old feudal tenants with paid farm labor.

[PSPS]

5. Who knows more about poverty than the guy who lives in this "house?"

[Major Nikon]

8. Probably not most of those who live in the suburbs and post their opinions on the internet

Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (or the Gates Foundation, abbreviated as BMGF) is the largest private foundation in the world, founded by Bill and Melinda Gates. It was launched in 2000 and is said to be the largest transparently operated private foundation in the world.[4] The primary aims of the foundation are, globally, to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty, and in America, to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology. The foundation, based in Seattle, Washington, is controlled by its three trustees: Bill Gates, Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett. Other principal officers include Co-Chair William H. Gates, Sr. and Chief Executive Officer Susan Desmond-Hellmann.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

[nolabear]

12. Why is it so important to hate people who are wealthy, esp. the ones who are helping?

I don't get it. Poverty isn't noble and having so little you can't help others isn't noble. It's tragic. Bill Gates' money came from playing a major part in creating things that have changed the world for the better, and he's giving away a massive amount of that wealth to make things better. How that can be shamed is beyond me.

[raging moderate]

37. Yes, this is a good idea for some but not all poor people.

When my husband and I were raising two small children, traveling all over Illinois looking for jobs, landing in new communities where jobs were likely, we found that the rules for unemployment compensation effectively required us to search for jobs within anywhere 70 miles or less from our dwelling. This can easily produce a situation in which two small children are caught in a natural disaster in a place where nobody knows them or their parents and with their parents 70 miles away in opposite directions and 140 miles away from each other. Imagine trying to raise chickens in this situation. Or in the cramped tenement quarters where city poor people are crammed. Not to mention the skills which are difficult to acquire in that environment. So often, rich people over-estimate their own knowledge and wisdom when setting up rules for the poor people, so that they wind up twisting the screws far tighter than they realize. Also, many of them are so sure that poverty is not noble that subconsciously they assume that poor people must be poor because they are somehow ignoble. Whereas actually some people become poor because of an inward nobility that drives them to take care of sick or disabled relatives, or refuse to cheat on the job or on their taxes, or pay their debts, no matter how much it hurts.

[nolabear]

39. I hear ya. I was mostly town and city dwelling poor. Chickens weren't the answer.

But those little villages in Africa stand to benefit greatly from the right kinds of husbandry.

[cleanhippie]

44. This is sub-Sahara Africa, not the US.

Did you read the article?

[midnight]

16. It looks more like a resort… Is that one of Bill's houses.

[LanternWaste]

35. I can only imagine the convenience afforded by believing only poor are aware of the poor

I can only imagine the convenience afforded by believing only poor are aware of the poor and only rich aware of the rich. It certainly allows a simplistic method of ruling out valid information that may interfere with your bias.

[Logical]

64. FFS, really? He gave 100s of millions to charity. nt

[R. P. McMurphy]

6. An idea straight out of "The Ugly American." nt

[Igel]

19. Why?

It's not "the" solution. But it helps.

One report on the famine in Ethiopia featured this. Typically the villagers would sell off all of their livestock and rely on outside food entirely. Call this "dependency level 1."

Alternatively, outsiders would have to cough up more money to maintain their herds and feed the population, as well. This required more resources; call this "dependency level 2."

Once the herds were gone, it was a difficult task rebuilding them and getting the villagers back up to minimal self-sufficiency. They'd often be somewhat dependent for years after the drought, long after interest and funding dried up.

The villages where chickens were introduced continued to produce some food. The villagers were kept at dependency level 1, although fewer resources could have been supplied to them since they were still producing some. The difference was that they keep some of their livestock, so that once the drought ends they can more easily rebuilt their herds.

This gives the villagers a bit of hope and more dignity. They aren't just charity cases, sitting there waiting for the next shipment of food from the Rich Americans so that the Americans involved can boast about how they helped "save a child, and here's her picture." They're at least helping to feed themselves.

Part of the problem, to be sure, is systemic. The carrying capacity of the land is dictated not by good years but by bad crop years. However, western funding has made sure that the population in some areas is higher than the carrying capacity during even good crop years. Famine, harshly and rudely, served to knock down the population and put a damper on fertility during lean years (since below a certain calorie level women stop being fertile). The populations are fairly young now so the population will continue to increase whatever happens to education levels and fertility in the next 20 years. That will necessitate increased out-migration even as countries and their "indigenous" populations feel that they're being culturally and economically swamped and require ever greater levels of international aid during lean years in the future.

We built this.

[R. P. McMurphy]

43. IIRC one of the groups in the book asked America . . .

for a robust stock of breeding chickens so they might improve their local stock in a way that was immediately beneficial, allowed them to benefit their economy in a way that they chose and in a way that conformed to local cultural norms. My recollection is that the Americans built them a large hydroelectric dam instead.

I didn't say it was a bad idea. I said the idea was exactly like one from the book. Kudos to Bill Gates for a culturally aware endeavor.

[Major Nikon]

7. Bill just happens to be right, but don't let that stand in the way of a good rant

Poor people(and those who aren't) all over the world and throughout much of recorded history have been using chickens to improve their standard of living. Chickens forage for themselves and recycle food waste unsuitable for human consumption. They are ridiculously simple to propagate. They produce eggs and when egg production slows down, virtually all of the animal can be used for food other than the feathers which can be used for other things.

[jwirr]

25. Way back in the 60s one of our friends worked in the Peace

Corp. When he was in grade school their class toured my father's hatchery. While in the country he was working in he wrote to my dad to ask it we could send goose eggs to him so that he could show the people over there how to raise geese.

My dad furnished him with the eggs and the village in Guam where he was working soon had a flock of geese. No idea if they still do but this worked when the people doing it were just two ordinary Iowa farmers.

[hfojvt]

50. "I still say that anything that eats eggs

is a dragon." a bird from Wonderland

[braddy]

9. Smart, my impression is that chickens were a foundation for poor rural living, eggs, chickens, and

commerce in breeding and selling meat and eggs, wins for everyone.

[JHB]

10. Good idea but possible drawbacks, depending on how it's done

I don't have any links, but I remember from many years ago a similar plan using pigs: poor farmers getting marketable breeds of pig to raise rather than their less-marketable native pigs.

The problem was that the for-global-market pigs needed high-quality food -- people food -- whereas the native pigs could scrounge and root around for food that wasn't suitable for people.

This meant that the "princess pigs" had a much higher cost to maintain than the native pigs, and families could find themselves squeezed even more than they had been.

Let's hope the Gates Foundation has people on the ground paying attention to unexpected developments like that.

[nolabear]

14. I believe they do. The better run global livestock programs work well these days.

Chickens are incredibly efficient too. They don't get the diseases that can harm people, they fertilize, breed more, can be cared for by very young kids, and people can eat the eggs in the interim. And they're tasty.

[ChickenGuru]

33. Well, except for

that avian influenza outbreak that keeps popping up (H5N6) you are correct.
To raise them cheap you have to manage them. Let them be chickens, give them room to forage and a secure place to roost.

[nolabear]

36. Agreed. I posted a great little paper down thread on the varieties of mgmnt.

[Wellstone ruled]

11. Ever raise Chickens?

Number one,cost of feed alone exceeds the value of the Chicken. But,then we are dealing with a Elitist spoiled brat that happens to be so out of touch with reality that makes one sick. Two,take a real hard look at the Gates Foundation on our Education System,more Arnie Duncan?

[nolabear]

17. Here. Try this on for facts.

http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3595e.pdf

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. That is incorrect. You must not know much about chickens.

People have been raising poultry for millennia; they are a staple in many third world countries. Chickens eat bugs and whatever else is available so the cost of additional feed, if any, is minimal. They produce eggs for eating or to make more chickens; they are eaten when they stop laying eggs. They produce fertilizer that enriches the soil for gardening. Chickens are about the cheapest and most efficient kind of livestock there is. Whatever you think of Bill Gates (or his approach toward education, which is irrelevant to this effort), this is a good thing the foundation is doing. The Gates Foundation does a lot of good things.

[Wellstone ruled]

22. Agree with the

fact that chicken is one of the cheapest protein sources available. In a rural environment chickens can be raised very cheaply and there are many upsides to raising them as you say. In a urban environment it just does not makes economic sense. As one whom raised Chickens for twenty plus years,feed costs and land values caused us to cease our Chicken operation. BTW,fresh Chicken was retailing yesterday,for whole fryers,were trading at below replacement costs.

And yes the Gates Foundation does do some real positive things on the World Stage. Sorry to say,the one that really bites is their Privatization approach to public Education. And again,a way to go to Gates's efforts in reducing world poverty and hunger. Now,if the Gates Foundation wants a real challenge,help our Native American People and their plight.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. And this would be in a rural, basically subsistence-level environment.

So the costs would be much, much lower; almost nothing. I know people who raise chickens in the city as a hobby (mostly for the eggs), and it is somewhat expensive but they can afford it. They had to build a sturdy coop and a fenced area to keep out predators (dogs and cats, mostly); they have to heat the coop in the winter; they buy feed even though the chickens can scratch for bugs, which they can't do in the winter. They regard the chickens to some extent as pets and they aren't eating them; they aren't raising them because they need to. Sub-Saharan Africa is a whole 'nother situation.

[Wellstone ruled]

40. And yes,

in Sub-Saharan Africa as well as areas of South America,this is more than doable.

[jwirr]

28. Have been around small chicken producers all my life. If they

are foraging for their own good they do not cost that much. Here in MN it does cost more because they cannot forage when it is below zero in the winter.

[Wellstone ruled]

42. My friend you nailed it.

Raised chickens for twenty plus years, feed and land costs became to expensive and we shut the Chicken and egg part of our Farm down to focus on Dairy. It is dollars and cents my friend.

[jwirr]

46. Yes, and we are lucky because none of us are trying to make

a living off our small operation. We have 5 families that contribute to the costs and do their share of the labor. And we grow chickens, pigs, sheep and are going to try to fatten some beef this year. We also each have garden's etc in our own back yards. Almost all of the food is used for our own personal use. I suspect that would also be true of the projects in Africa.

In order to make a living we all (except me) have jobs off the farm. I am retired and act as their foreman.

[Wellstone ruled]

47. Good on you folks.

As a youngster,we had nine families doing very similiar thing. And that was post WW2,and we did the Chickens as well as all the Spuds. Kids are cheap labor and in that,how times have changed.

[JimDandy]

51. Wow, I'm impressed

and jealous.

[JCMach1]

63. We still produce small amounts of free range eggs. The sale of eggs pays for the food, plus a small

profit. Plus, it provides our family with the best eggs and the occasional extra rooster you can imagine.

There are many small-scale poultry entrepreneurs in Africa. My experience is specifically in Kenya, but small-scale farmers (even in downtown Nairobi) will raise a few dozen chicken on scraps and supplemental grain. The price they get can be quite good.

[jwirr]

67. The Heifer organization has spread these small farms all over

the third world and even on the rez in this country. I try to give a gift every Christmas.

Quietly behind the corporate scene is this small growth of individuals trying to help themselves and others.

[JCMach1]

73. Exactly... and we in the West need to see the small-scale we are talking about here...

It is good for the people and good for the environment to produce protein on this small scale.

Chickens are one of the best recycling systems on the planet.

I also remember travelling in Nepal where they free-range their chickens mostly for eggs. The chickens roam all over Kathmandu picking anything edible from the rubbish heaps left for the street cleaners (human ones, not mechanical).

Because these heaps are also sometimes burned, eggs tend to have a slight, but distinct carbon flavor.

[midnight]

15. He always manages to vaccinate… Good guy….

[Glimmer of Hope]

18. Owning a chicken or other animal can make a difference for those living in the very poorest

parts of the world. A friend of mine bought a goat for a family in India and it became a source of income and nutrition. It literally changed their lives .

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Where I live you have to get permission from surrounding neighbors

to keep chickens, and in most cases they don't allow roosters at all. Raising chickens in the city is going to be a hobby, not a survival mechanism, because of the expense, work and hassle. I know someone who raises them in her back yard and she described how much constant work and upkeep is involved. She says the eggs are a lot better, which I'm sure is true; but I don't want to work that hard for them.

[Beaverhausen]

32. My neighbors had chickens for a year and I only just heard them a few weeks ago

no smell, no noise...and I'm inches from my neighbors.

I'm just upset they didn't offer me any eggs!

[Beaverhausen]

45. I know they can be loud but honestly, my neighbors have I think 3 and I only just heard them

My neighbor thought it was so funny that he had them for a year and I only just heard them.

They are very quiet, polite chickens apparently. I actually like hearing their little chirpings every once in a while.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. Bill gates charity is actually very effective and data driven

His work with malaria has been very effective. If he is supporting this initiative likely it is because it shows promising results

[MFM008]

29. I want chicken

KFC later.....

[Beaverhausen]

30. Ever heard of Heifer International?

http://www.heifer.org/

Please educate yourself.

[Glimmer of Hope]

68. Thank you!

[eShirl]

71. ^ THIS

[hunter]

41. If anyone wants to know what they can do to help people living in poverty, ASK THEM!

If you can't give them what they need then get the hell out of the way.

"Solutions" passed down from above are rarely effective, and too frequently destructive.

But I didn't learn much from this article.

Maybe people somewhere are asking for vaccinated chickens.

But I'll bet they'd rather have a house with electricity and running water, a nice job, and a cell phone with internet access, NOT Windows 10, thank you.

[dembotoz]

48. rather have chickens than windows 10

at least he is doing something

in many locals it just might work

a republican would be telling them to pull them selves up by their boot straps


no one solution will cure all.
my condo association would not be happy,
my kids father in law raised chickens for a while
he had lots and lots of eggs...he gave them to the food pantry which i thought was nice


hell why not

[Kimberly1990219]

49. Didn't he grow up rich?

How would he know anything about how to escape poverty?

[Logical]

65. He is not the bad guy. He has gave millions to good causes. Bitch about the Koch brothers. nt

[Warpy]

53. And just what the hell are people too poor to feed themselves going to feed those chickens?

Land going to desert certainly isn't going to supply them with insects and grubs, they're also going to need some sort of feed.

Gates is just another rich guy who's lost touch.

[Major Nikon]

60. Some of the first domesticated chickens came from Africa

They still have indigenous chickens that live there today. Those types can be domesticated just like they were thousands of years ago or they can be cross bred with other domesticated chickens to enhance certain attributes. They are excellent foragers and well suited for free ranging in the rural sub-Saharan African environment.

[Rex]

54. I don't trust dishonest business folks to help the world just out of their own sense of compassion.

He lost all my respect years ago. If he does good in the world, well he needs to make up for the decades he walked all over people to become the richest man on the planet.

[Odin2005]

56. This is a good example of "missing the point".

They can't afford to keep and raise chickens EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR. It would be like telling a homeless person on Skid Row to start a business.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. I think you've missed the point, actually.

Chickens, in rural third world areas, are probably the cheapest source of protein there is. They cost basically nothing to raise because they scavenge their own food, mostly insects. They produce eggs for food and more chickens. You eat the chickens when they don't lay eggs any more. Poultry raising has been one of the most widely used, inexpensive and efficient ways of getting good nutrition to poor rural communities since forever. The idea here is to buy flocks of chickens for people who can't afford the initial investment, but once they have them the flock is pretty self-sustaining. Buying livestock for people in third world countries is a great way to help them - have a look at Heifer International as another example. http://www.heifer.org/

[gollygee]

58. The Sun?

The Sun is a daily tabloid newspaper published in the United Kingdom and Ireland. Founded in 1964 as a successor broadsheet to the Daily Herald, it became a tabloid in 1969 after it was purchased by its current owners. It is published by the News Group Newspapers division of News UK, itself a wholly owned subsidiary of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp.

It's a right wing rag.


I've contributed to Heifer International many times. This is not a new or odd idea.

[KamaAina]

61. He could just as easily drop a billion or two on Heifer International

They've been hooking poor people up with livestock for decades.

http://www.heifer.org/about-heifer/index.html

Dan West was a farmer from the American Midwest and member of the Church of the Brethren who went to the front lines of the Spanish Civil War as an aid worker. His mission was to provide relief, but he soon discovered the meager single cup of milk rationed to the weary refugees once a day was not enough.

And then he had a thought: What if they had not a cup, but a cow?...

We empower families to turn hunger and poverty into hope and prosperity – but our approach is more than just giving them a handout. Heifer links communities and helps bring sustainable agriculture and commerce to areas with a long history of poverty. Our animals provide partners with both food and reliable income, as agricultural products such as milk, eggs and honey can be traded or sold at market.

When many families gain this new sustainable income, it brings new opportunities for building schools, creating agricultural cooperatives, forming community savings and funding small businesses.

[mopinko]

72. i believe he is working w heifer.

someone posted this video on my fb page the other day. he did mention working w heifer.
or at least working off of heifer's model.

it is a good plan. and as a chicken keeper myself, i think that being in touch w these funny, sweet animals is good for the soul.

[haele]

62. There's already an organization that helps rural farming poor around the world.

It's called Heifer International. And even though they were started by a religious organization, they don't require their sponsored villages to be particularly religious, just "in need".

Everyone in our family gets for their big "Christmas gift" a donation of either certified healthy livestock or a share of rural veterinarian training and a year's worth of supplies for not only the donated animals, but for dogs and cats (which includes a sturdy bicycle and large backpack with extensive amounts of baskets and saddle bags for transportation of vet gear to patients) to a young member of an impoverished developing world village who wants to be more than just a farmer for his or her region.
When we give livestock, we always give goats - they can survive almost anywhere and are multi-purpose animals.
Heifer has also gotten into training locals to developing systems for water purification and expand local craft-related businesses to more efficiently support the villages than simply depending on agriculture.
When the earthquake hit Nepal last year, they sent out a broadcast plea, as they had sponsored over thirty villages in the region, and they were going to be replacing lost or killed livestock and sending out their training groups to help the locals rebuild their economic and infrastructure resources more efficiently for the area.

Oh yeah, you can donate a poultry basket (two dozen chicks and duckings along with a healthy mated pair of chickens and ducks) to a poor farm.

Bill's coming a bit late to the party, but his heart is somewhat in the right place.


Haele

[Quantess]

66. It's not a terrible idea.

Insensitive? Definitely, coming from a multi-billionaire.
Good advice? I would say, yes.

[phylny]

69. I work with several very poor families,

and a few of these families have chickens. They all say "at least we have eggs" and the chickens also do a good job on the insects in the yard.

[pediatricmedic]

70. Really good idea

Sorry a lot of people that post here don't get it though.