How the hell did one guy keep shooting continuously for 20 minutes?

[Kablooie]

One of the victims who was was shot in the shoulder said, "All I heard was gunfire after gunfire. Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

I heard he had an AR-15 but even those have to be reloaded after 10 shots or so don't they?

What was this guy using that allowed him to keep shooting that long without having to stop and reload?

[Skittles]

1. I'm assured by a gun humper DUer that the kind of weapon is irrelevant

only the RIGHT to own them is important

[etherealtruth]

4. Apparently that is true ... or at least that's what "they" want us to beleive

[Skittles]

10. they make me sick

it's never the guns, EVER

[Orrex]

77. I've added quite a few to my Ignore list today

Still plenty of room, if any gun zealots want to step up and convince me to add them.

[villager]

79. They are sick, sick puppies, that bunch.

No offense meant to actual puppies, of course.

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. Really? Where?

[Albertoo]

50. Like at the Paris Bataclan, the attack would be foiled if some patrons carried weapons

Gays should give serious consideration to this group and their advice:

[Agschmid]

82. ...

This really is insanity isn't it.

[braddy]

2. Replacing a magazine doesn't take much time. Didn't anyone there have a gun to stop him?

[Duckhunter935]

8. You don't need a gun, rush him

Like they took down the terrorists on the train.

[JI7]

12. nightclubs are different. people likely have been drinking. it's dark

Crowded and packed in .

[Duckhunter935]

14. That is true

[quaker bill]

13. Apparently he took on the security first.

I live in Orlando. I have been hearing about it all day.

[liberal N proud]

16. That would destroy the more guns meme

[Skittles]

17. more guns is just stupid

anyone who started shooting would have been a target for any other gun humper in the club

[linuxman]

21. I know!

Then a bunch of people might have died!

[Bigmack]

30. LOTS more people.... no safe background for that "good guy" to take any kind of shot....

...I'm waiting to see how many of the victims were hit by police bullets.

(I'm not saying that I'm sure there will be victims of police bullets, but if the past is any guide, we can count on it."

[Travis_0004]

26. Its illegal to carry a gun in a Flordia nightclub.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. True... anywhere alcohol is served.

[GulfCoast66]

38. If they did

It was illegal. No guns in bars in Florida. Of course, that assumed you are law abiding.

A law I strongly support.

[braddy]

40. It's too bad a club that large didn't have staff who carried if that is allowed, to just terrorists

have disarmed targets was a disaster.

This is going to become more routine as the years go by, at some point we will need to become more like Israel.

[GulfCoast66]

43. I could not disagree more.

I do not want armed guards everywhere I go and they would not prevent this anyway. But I do not doubt your sincerely.

Have you noticed that since the primary the desire to attack each other on all disagreements had increased?

I live near that club and have many gay coworkers who go there. But I am an old guy who does not do social media so fear that when I go to work I wil discover that someone I know has been impacted.

Have a great evening.

[Mojorabbit]

78. There was an armed offduty police doing security

and I saw an interview with a guy who played dead in the bathroom and described him reloading so he did do that at least once.

[Skink]

3. Must have positioned himself far enough away so he'd have time to reload

[NutmegYankee]

5. In many states you can buy a 100 round drum magazine.

Obviously that provides little time to swarm the gunman and take them down. It's a key reason such mags should be banned. No reason for such a thing in the civilian world.

[Kablooie]

9. Ah. If he had a 100 round magazine he'd probably only have to reload once.

That would give him 200 shots almost continuously.

And this is the (predictable) result.

[PoliticAverse]

15. The Colorodo theater killer used a 100 shot drum. It jammed as they often do.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/22/us/colorado-shooting-investigation/index.html

[Duckhunter935]

11. They also tend to jam and fail to feed correctly

I will be curious to find out what he had with him

[Duckhunter935]

6. You can get larger than 10 round magazines.

20 was the standard for many years until the military went with 30 round magazines. They now make super size magazines of 40-100 rounds but those tend to jam and the weapon overheats and fails with those numbers. I am also interested how long it took to take him down and get the wounded out. I fear many died in the 2 hour pause. Current tactics are to immediately rush in and take the shooter down.

[mythology]

7. My guess is that in the heat of the moment the victim didn't have an entirely accurate

recall. I'm guessing that a quick reload would be hard to notice while being shot at. It's one of the reasons why witness id is so often wrong as people under stress don't remember things entirely accurately.

[HooptieWagon]

18. That would be my guess.

Also, peep might be under the impression it was an automatic weapon. It wasn't...one trigger pull fires one bullet, there could be several seconds between shots, so an interval to load a fresh magazine wouldn't be noticed.

The two things Im still confused about are first, that he entered the club apparently with all his arms. No one noticed? HD then went back outside, where he first exchanged fire with police officer handling security. Why was the cop outside, not inside?
Secondly,it appears there was a 2-3 hour period with the gunman inside and the cops outside. I understand about securing the perimeter, letting people escape, snd formulating a plan. But that seems like a long time. Was the gunman killing people during that time? Were the cops attempting to negotiate him into surrendering? Hadn't seen those answers addressed, understand its early in investigation and reports have to be written to get full story.

[HooptieWagon]

62. Probably several. Not blaming the cops.

They did help many out of the building during that time; in one case by pulling out a wall A/C unit and helping people out the hole. But it's a safe bet several people bled to death over the few hours. Several of the Columbine deaths happened during the 3 hours before they could be reached.

[Amishman]

81. I am definitely putting some blame on law enforcement for waiting hours to go in

that is completely inexcusable. time after time we have seen that quick response and confrontation of the shooter limits the damage. give a crazed gunman hours and you will have this type of body count.

[HooptieWagon]

85. I'm going to wait until all the facts are in.

[csziggy]

19. A video has to sound of regular shots, in a rhythym

Video at link: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-quick-cuts/watch/witness-records-gunfire-at-scene-of-orlando-nightclub-shooting-704045123938

Many of the witnesses said that at first they thought the gunfire was part of the music, it was so regular.

MSNBC also has this about the weapons:

What Weapons Were Used?

Mateen, who had security and firearm licenses, used an AR-15-type rifle and a handgun, both of them purchased legally, authorities said.

The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said the weapons were bought in the last few days.

The AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle, has been used in many mass shootings in U.S. history — at Aurora, Colorado, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and just last year at San Bernardino, California.

Bomb-sniffing dogs alerted on possible explosives, but authorities said none were found.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-massacre-what-we-know-about-attack-n590666

Maybe a DUer with expertise in weapons can tell us if the audio on the clip from MSNBC sounds like an AR-15 and give us an estimate of how many shots were fired during that segment?

Edited to add: There are already conspiracy theories about this being a false flag operation. I saw a number of them while looking for the video above on YouTube. One claims he's identified actors - but I didn't watch any of them so I don't know what whacko ideas they are coming up with for this tragedy.

[Adrahil]

25. It's difficult to tell from audio what the firearm is, though it's definitely a semi-auto.

I guess the club didn't have any armed security?

Anyway, it only takes a couple seconds to swap magazines if you know what you're doing.

[HooptieWagon]

31. Yes, there was an armed off-duty cop working security.

He exchanged shots with the gunman when the gunman had briefly gone outside. IDK why the security cop was outside rather than inside, or why the gun mans weapons weren't spotted when he first entered.

[csziggy]

37. Some reports said he shot the club security first outside the club

Then he went in and started shooting patrons. I don't have a link for that, just what I've heard during the day on the TV, switching back and forth between CNN and MSNBC.

What the shooting sounds remind me of is when the local SWAT comes out to use our neighbor's gun range. While it's really annoying, there are a few advantages - we no longer get dirt bikers and ATV riders trespassing from that direction on our farm, our horses are not startled by loud noises and are rock solid steady with them, and the SWAT team can look over our property and KNOW the young pines in the bottom pasture are not marijuana plants.

(The last is based on an incident years ago - another neighbor's son had just gotten hired by FDLE to fly their helicopter and they were testing out the FLEER. Apparently young loblolloy pines have the same infrared signature as marijuana. The copter was hovering very low over our bottom pasture and scaring the hell out of the horses. I called the airport tower and gave them hell about it - told them if FDLE thought those were marijuana they could come out and look at the trees on the ground, just come in the front gate. They never did and the neighbor's son never flew the helicopter over my property again.)

[scscholar]

20. The laws let people buy too much ammo

That's how.

[linuxman]

22. How much should you be able to buy?

[scscholar]

23. Just did a Google search, and that 22 caliber ammo used to kill this morning...

comes in 20 round boxes. Even that seems like too much. You could sight in your rifle for hunting and kill years worth with just one box.

[Adrahil]

27. Not and remain a good shot.

You need to shoot some ammo to maintain proficiency.

[scscholar]

28. The fifty dead prove that

It is too high power for civilians to own.

[Travis_0004]

32. .223 is low power

Is banned for hunting deer in a lot of states because it is now powerful enough.

[HooptieWagon]

65. No. It's designed to injure.

An injured soldier is more of a burden than a dead one. The AR-15, which was the prototype for the M-16, was designed to wound. It later became the civilian version of the M-16 in semi-automatic form.
Hunting you do want to kill. You don't want to go chasing a wounded animal cross country. The AR-15 is not a very good hunting weapon. Besides a lightweight bullet, it also has limited range and moderate accuracy.

[Just reading posts]

59. .223 is one of the lowest power centerfire rifle rounds on the market.

It is too high power for civilians to own.

What is your proposed limit, then?

[Hoyt]

80. Yeah, we all need to train to be snipers and participate in urban warfare.

[Travis_0004]

29. .223. Not .22

Not everybody uses their guns for hunting. Its not at all unusual to use 100 rounds when target shooting.

[hack89]

33. Shooting is a perishable skill

to be really good at it takes a lot of practice and ammo.

[Fumesucker]

57. To be really good at anything takes a lot of practice

http://www.wisdomgroup.com/blog/10000-hours-of-practice/

In the book Outliers, author Malcolm Gladwell says that it takes roughly ten thousand hours of practice to achieve mastery in a field. How does Gladwell arrive at this conclusion? And, if the conclusion is true, how can we leverage this idea to achieve greatness in our professions?

[Brickbat]

24. Wasn't there a report that said he was familiar or trained on some of these weapons?

It's doesn't take long to switch up if you're efficient.

[HooptieWagon]

34. He was employed as an armed security guard.

It's logical to presume he had at least a basic proficiency in shooting.

[Recursion]

35. By switching magazines. With a CA-compliant AR-15 he wouldn't have been able to

Those take a lot longer to reload. It's the mechanism, not the brand name, that makes this possible.

[MsFlorida]

36. On the news with Alan grayson

Assault rifles are capable of 800 rounds per minute. I googled and yes it's possible

[GulfCoast66]

39. No, it really is not.

Even with an 800 round magazine which is crazily impossible, the gun would melt from the heat. And can you flex your finger in a trigger pulling type pull 800 times in a minute?

Not that I disagree with stricter gun control, but we are a fact based community.

[braddy]

41. That figure is for actual assault rifles, not the sporting rifles that look like them.

[linuxman]

53. Wrong.

Simply dead wrong. You cannot buy a non NFA firearm of any type that can do that.

[Just reading posts]

60. He wasn't using an assault rifle.

[HooptieWagon]

69. Only if you pull the trigger 800 times.

The gun, like the other 'assault' weapons used in mass shootings is not, repeat NOT, fully automatic. It's a semi-automatic...the trigger has to be pulled each time a bullet is fired. Further, you can only shoot until the magazine is empty, then it has to be replaced.

[Duckhunter935]

83. No it is not

That might be a theoretical limit but not close to bring possible in the real world.

[milestogo]

42. I think it would be hard to estimate the amount of time

that someone was shooting in a situation like this. For those who were hiding in the club it must have seemed like an eternity before the shooting was over.

[grossproffit]

44. I'd like to know how he got it into the club.

[HooptieWagon]

72. I've asked that question, haven't seen an answer.

It's not a weapon that's easily hidden. And the handgun and extra magazines while they could be hidden in a backpack would be heavy. Somebody entering the club with a bunch of heavy objects is going to be fairly suspicious...door guy and security are going to want to check bags and packs.

[Darb]

45. Question is, where were all the trigger happy cops?

What, no unarmed kids running away?

[uponit7771]

49. +1

[quickesst]

47. here is one way

Two 20 or 30 round clips taped together in the center. Empty 1 clip, eject, flip it, insert the other end. 20 or 30 more rounds. A couple of those can do some serious damage.

[Albertoo]

51. At the Paris Bataclan, the attackers kept shooting for hours

The only answer to this terrorism which will become permanent is for citizens to carry weapons. Admittedly, it's not always practical: not very convenient on the dance floor.
But at least the owners of public venues should have weapons.

[Rex]

54. So after that happens and an untold number of people kill each other 'in the heat of battle'

what will our next solution be?

[Albertoo]

56. Look, there will be other attacks inspired by radical Islam

It's worldwide and it's increasing in frequency.
It happens in countries with or without an armed citizenry.
My point is rather basic: let's just adjust to these circumstances.

[Rex]

58. From a tactical point of view that is the worst thing you could possibly do.

So with 50 people firing in all different directions, how do you know which person to shoot? You think everyone will just stop shooting once the first person is dead?

[Albertoo]

63. LOL. Are you serious?

The Paris Bataclan and Orlando Pulse are a demonstration of what happens when one or three gunmen take their time, being the only one(s) with a weapon.

Show me how ome patrons having weapons would make their situation worse.

I can only admire how you take refuge in mockery to defend your point of view: 100% of the patrons armed, shooting blindly in all directions like in a Tex Avery cartoon?

Why don't you try to feel what it must be like to be in an unarmed group facing a guy intent on killing you?

[Rex]

64. Nevermind, I see you are not serious and don't understand at all.

Good luck with your delusions, people that have been in the military know better.

[Albertoo]

66. Tough luck, I have been in the military

[Rex]

67. Right, sure you have.

[Albertoo]

68. LOL. Right, sure you can tell.

[Dem2]

71. Yep

Poster is angry, has caught a bad case of islamophobia.

[Rex]

73. His idea is idiotic to the extreme and even he knows it.

Yeah I see that, so his idea of 'progress' is to go back to the wild west...totally ludicrous. I really don't even think he is serious, his idea is far too buffoonish to be serious.

It's an NRA talking point, but he probably knows that.

[Dem2]

74. I agree

I don't know if some posters are just angry, really covet violence or are actual wingnuts who've been pretending to be 'progressive' for long periods - hiding in smaller 'specialty' forums perhaps.

[Rex]

75. Same here, the anger is telling.

Plus I have never met any progressive that is against gun control. No doubt there are some, but I have yet to met one in RL.

[HooptieWagon]

76. Yes, it is a buffoonish NRA talking point.

In a darkened nightclub (or theatre like Aurora), the last thing you want is a bunch of amateurs firing wildly in the dark. They'd be more likely to create more victims than hit the shooter.

[backscatter712]

55. Brought a lot of magazines.

Probably had a duffel bag full of ammo.

[Just reading posts]

61. It only takes a few seconds to reload, and he reportedly had a handgun as a backup weapon.

I heard he had an AR-15 but even those have to be reloaded after 10 shots or so don't they?

Standard mags are 30 rounds.

[Jesus Malverde]

84. word is it was multiple shooters.

There is also the possibility of the practice of "active shooter" responses of keeping everyone cowering in place inside a police perimeter contributed to the slaughter. Either way WTF right?

[ManiacJoe]

87. Word from where?