posted w/o comment

[n2doc]

[Warren DeMontague]

1. This one from Sandy Hook pretty much sums it up:

rinse. repeat.

[Johonny]

6. +1

The guy on the right is very active today on the DU. I personally welcome their fear because the person on the left has actual moral weight and the person on the right just has fear, factoids, and gun manufacturer bought NRA talking points.

[saidsimplesimon]

24. Johonny

I agree.

Off topic, a quote from a "B" movie:

"My life is an endless highway, full of toll booths and no exits."

[Dem2]

13. One of my favorites

[mountain grammy]

18. Perfect!

[onehandle]

2. Shooters could be stopped with a kick to the crotch.

Could have saved many of the more than 280,000+ who have died due to gun violence in the last ten years in the U.S.

[brush]

8. And who is going to sacrifice themselves to walk up to kick a guy in the crotch . . .

Last edited Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:49 AM - Edit history (1)

who is shooting and killing people left and right?

[JanMichael]

37. Generally nobody. I agree. Everyone has fantasy's of doing something...

...but rarely does it work. That one teacher in a school in Washington or Oregon is one example of fast thinking (she or he just grabbed the rifle from the kid). not that many more though.

[ManiacJoe]

3. Always makes for a good comic.

[aikoaiko]

4. Mostly true, but there were military issued 20-round repeating air rifles in 1779

Allow me to introduce the Girardoni air rifle. A .46 calibre rifle with a 20-round capacity. It served the Lewis and Clark expedition famously and served the Austrian Army for 25 years.

It was the AR15 of its day.

[Travis_0004]

5. Dont bring facts into this discussion

All laws should be based on when they were written.

No free speach on the internet, the founding fathers couldn't have predicted that. If you want free speech you have to walk down to the town square, and don't you even think about bring a megaphone.

I have more to say, but I'm afraid I cant say it here. I will be posting an open letter on the doors of the mayors office tomorrow morning. Please respond. But not tomorrow, we are expecting rain, and they just don't make parchment paper like they used to.

[63splitwindow]

11. You agree then that...

the Constitution is a living, breathing document whose meaning and application is what the United States Supreme Court says it is from time to time?

[PJMcK]

27. Isn't that how it was intended? (n/t)

[63splitwindow]

28. I believe so.

So if the US Supreme Court determines that the Founding Fathers could surely not have meant to have a society flooded with military style rapid and multi fire firearms then I would welcome that.

[Wednesdays]

7. So, there were instances of

scores of people being mowed down by a single shooter in the 18th century.
Who knew?

[uponit7771]

10. +1

[hunter]

9. All the lead poisoned brain violence without the smell of gunpowder or nitrocellulose!

Brilliant. Eat some sweet lead paint chips.



Piss on guns and those who love them.

[63splitwindow]

14. From you source:

"The Girardoni air rifle was in service with the Austrian army from 1780 to around 1815. The advantages of a high rate of fire, no smoke from propellants, and low muzzle report granted it initial acceptance, but it was eventually removed from service for several reasons. While the detachable air reservoir was capable of around 30 shots it took nearly 1,500 strokes of a hand pump to fill those reservoirs. Later, a wagon-mounted pump was provided. The reservoirs, made from hammered sheet iron held together with rivets and sealed by brazing, proved very difficult to manufacture using the techniques of the period and were always in short supply.

In addition, the weapon was very delicate and a small break in the reservoir could make it inoperable. Finally, it was very different from any other weapon of the time and any soldier using it needed to be highly trained.

The Lewis and Clark Expedition used the rifle in the demonstrations that they performed for nearly every Native American tribe they encountered on the expedition"

[aikoaiko]

21. Sure, but firing 30 rounds in a row before switching canisters and firing another 30

Should sound familiar.

[63splitwindow]

34. Here is how it actually works...

[aikoaiko]

36. Thanks for confirming.

It was the "assault weapon" if its day.

[63splitwindow]

39. OK, for argument's sake. Now, how many...

American civilians were killed by one while going about their civilian life?

[aikoaiko]

40. I have no idea. The point was to say that technological argument for the 2nd protecting ARs

is not quite as strong as some people think it is. We were already moving beyond single shot muzzle loaders and the writers of the Bill of Rights would have know that.

[63splitwindow]

41. Are you saying...

that it is your opinion that the Founding Fathers would look at the civilian murders our society is enduring today and would say, "Yep, simply a cost of the 2nd Amendment as we intended it be implemented."

[aikoaiko]

42. I don't know. Life was still fairly brutish, nasty and short in the late 1700s.

Massacres happened. One of the earliest recording school shootings was in the 1760s.

[63splitwindow]

44. Can you give us a link to info on the school shooting? nt

[aikoaiko]

46. Enoch Brown and school children

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Brown_school_massacre

[63splitwindow]

43. Same argument applies to rocket powered grenades because...

"By the late 10th century in the Song Dynasty (960-1279), the Chinese had adapted gunpowder to rockets. To make such an arrow, first a paper tube was made; then the gunpowder was put inside the tube, which was then attached to an arrow to be launched by a bow. Those were the first and most primitive rockets in the history of humankind."
http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_madeinchina/2005-07/21/content_70826.htm

[aikoaiko]

45. Its true, but Federal law actually allows the acquisition of the RPG as a NFA destructive device

But the few manufacturers won't sell them to civilians.

State laws may also prohibit civilians owning such a device.

[Jim Beard]

15. Were these rifles sold for home use or strictiy military.

It was a military rifle, one a Milita man would use. BTW, how many people owned rifles in the early days?

[Travis_0004]

16. Anybody could buy one

It was the weapon of choice for Lewis and Clark

[63splitwindow]

17. Uh, Travis--- from the source of the photo---

"The Girardoni air rifle was in service with the Austrian army from 1780 to around 1815. The advantages of a high rate of fire, no smoke from propellants, and low muzzle report granted it initial acceptance, but it was eventually removed from service for several reasons. While the detachable air reservoir was capable of around 30 shots it took nearly 1,500 strokes of a hand pump to fill those reservoirs. Later, a wagon-mounted pump was provided. The reservoirs, made from hammered sheet iron held together with rivets and sealed by brazing, proved very difficult to manufacture using the techniques of the period and were always in short supply.

In addition, the weapon was very delicate and a small break in the reservoir could make it inoperable. Finally, it was very different from any other weapon of the time and any soldier using it needed to be highly trained.

The Lewis and Clark Expedition used the rifle in the demonstrations that they performed for nearly every Native American tribe they encountered on the expedition"

[Gore1FL]

26. Lewis and Clark worked for the Government. nt

[Orrex]

54. Ok, then we can allow Girardoni rifles manufactured before 1815.

How long did it take to pump the cylinder 1500 times, by the way? And how many shots could the wielder get at full power?

[jtuck004]

12. Yet they managed to kill perhaps as many as 50 million indigenous people.

And ate a few.

[SunSeeker]

19. European introduced measles/diseases more than muzzle blasts did the Native Americans in. nt

[jtuck004]

20. Methods of famous serial killers 101. Criminal Minds: Historical Behavior. n/t

[SCantiGOP]

22. Certain people you just shouldn't argue with

You will never win an argument with an ideologue.

Edit: not aimed at you jtuck, but at some posts upstream.

[saidsimplesimon]

25. I disagree. Speaking truth to insanity is a winner!

[jmg257]

23. Let's get on with it and repeal the 2nd (and the militia clauses and US code). nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

29. And what do you believe that would accomplish?

Disarming those 80 million+ gun owners? Not a chance...

[jmg257]

30. It would make courts upholding gun laws

Much easier, and challenges much harder.

[Just reading posts]

32. Go for it. How likely do you think it is that you'll succeed?

[jmg257]

33. I'll pass, thanks...Not very.

[Aerows]

49. No.

There are too many wilderness areas of the US where you need a rifle to protect against wildlife that threatens your family and pets on your land.

That said, you are a rotten shot if you need that many bullets to bring down something feral on your property.

[jmg257]

50. And that relates to militias how?

[Aerows]

51. It relates to common sense

It has nothing to do with militias.

[jmg257]

52. OK - not sure why you replied to my post, but ok. nt

[Aerows]

55. Then why did you reply to mine? n/t

[jmg257]

56. To find out why you replied to mine, of course!

Why this:

"There are too many wilderness areas of the US where you need a rifle to protect against wildlife that threatens your family and pets on your land."

relates to this:

"Let's get on with it and repeal the 2nd (and the militia clauses and US code)"

was confusing to me. Not sure of the connection you intended between a rifle to protect against wildlife and the militia clauses in the constitution. As you explained, "nothing", so...

[Aerows]

57. I have the feeling

that you and I are on two different trains of thought.

Don't have time right now, but I'll try to catch you at the station later

[jmg257]

58. ha no worries! Surely we will be here again! Cheers! nt

[JEB]

31. Firm believer in the single shot. nt

[Laser102]

35. Ah,the good old days. Miss them.

[greiner3]

38. Not sure the length of time required to reload

But I've read prior to cartridges in the Civil War, the average gun fired 3 times a minute; in practice; by a seasoned vet. Maybe 2 shots a minute or less?

[Aerows]

47. My "favorite" today was

"People need them for hunting".

"I don't hunt anymore."

Why in the name of everything does someone need to expend that many rounds for "training", pretend hunting, and then reveal that they don't even hunt?

What in the hell is somebody doing hunting with an AR-15? Is their aim that damn bad that they need to spew that many bullets?

The arguments are getting absolutely absurd.

[burrowowl]

48. K&R

[Gothmog]

53. Great cartoon