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Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:02 PM

Hillary: "I believe law abiding, responsible Americans have a right to own guns"

This was in answer to the CNN reporter asking about what she thought regarding the Second Amendment. So, looks like that is settled.

She went on to say she would like to see an assault weapon ban re-instituted, and other "common sense" reforms.


77 replies, 3818 views

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Reply Hillary: "I believe law abiding, responsible Americans have a right to own guns" (Original post)
One Black Sheep Jun 2016 OP
tonyt53 Jun 2016 #1
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #3
tonyt53 Jun 2016 #4
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #5
LonePirate Jun 2016 #33
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #38
sarisataka Jun 2016 #2
Hoyt Jun 2016 #9
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #12
Hoyt Jun 2016 #16
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #18
Hoyt Jun 2016 #71
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #72
Marengo Jun 2016 #21
Hoyt Jun 2016 #35
Marengo Jun 2016 #41
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #39
sarisataka Jun 2016 #29
Kentonio Jun 2016 #31
sarisataka Jun 2016 #37
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #42
sarisataka Jun 2016 #44
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #49
HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #6
Shemp Howard Jun 2016 #58
DashOneBravo Jun 2016 #61
Release The Hounds Jun 2016 #77
Name removed Jun 2016 #7
Hoyt Jun 2016 #11
Warpy Jun 2016 #8
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #10
Hoyt Jun 2016 #13
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #14
hunter Jun 2016 #65
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #66
hunter Jun 2016 #69
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #70
hunter Jun 2016 #73
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #75
hunter Jun 2016 #76
GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #15
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #17
GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #20
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #25
Warpy Jun 2016 #19
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #27
scscholar Jun 2016 #52
Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #46
frazzled Jun 2016 #22
rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #23
One Black Sheep Jun 2016 #24
rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #26
Matrosov Jun 2016 #28
Dem2 Jun 2016 #30
One Black Sheep Jun 2016 #32
Kentonio Jun 2016 #34
One Black Sheep Jun 2016 #40
liberal N proud Jun 2016 #36
TeddyR Jun 2016 #43
liberal N proud Jun 2016 #45
TeddyR Jun 2016 #48
Just reading posts Jun 2016 #50
TeddyR Jun 2016 #53
gwheezie Jun 2016 #47
TransitJohn Jun 2016 #51
liberal N proud Jun 2016 #55
TransitJohn Jun 2016 #57
beevul Jun 2016 #63
PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #60
SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2016 #74
Marengo Jun 2016 #59
TransitJohn Jun 2016 #62
Rocknrule Jun 2016 #54
GummyBearz Jun 2016 #56
Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #64
Crunchy Frog Jun 2016 #67
hunter Jun 2016 #68

Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:04 PM

1. Most people agree with that statement as well as the statement about the assault weapons ban

 

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:11 PM

3. Most people don't agree with a ban on assault weapons. A slim majority are against such a ban.

 

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:15 PM

4. Take that poll into context with the question asked. Ask the question with only the last part.

 

Make it illegal for non-law enforcement citizens to possess semi-automatic guns known as assault riffles? You will get a completely different response The way a question is asked does make a difference.

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Response to tonyt53 (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:16 PM

5. Phrasing matters, granted. It's easy to play dueling polls.

 

I think it's fair to say that the country is divided roughly 50/50 on this issue.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:50 PM

33. Instead of using a 2013 poll, how about using this one from today with 57% support for a ban?

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #33)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:53 PM

38. I'm not surprised such support went up a bit after a tragedy.

 

A couple of months support for such a ban will revert to the previous level. It always does.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:05 PM

2. What I would do it like to see stated sometime,

Rather than what should be banned, what is definitely permitted?

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:20 PM

9. Maximum of 2 guns At HOME for hunting and, maybe self-defens. No semi-autos.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:21 PM

12. Try to outlaw semiautos and you're making at least half the guns in this country illegal.

 

Never going to happen.

Maximum of 2 guns At HOME

The average gun owner in this country has 8 guns. What happens to the "extra" guns?

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:24 PM

16. Cry me a river, melt em down or stuff down the throats on white wingers and NRA.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:25 PM

18. How likely do you think it is that your proposal will come to fruition?

 

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:42 PM

71. Tough Australians pulled it off. Just because we've been coddling white wing gunners doesn't mean

we have to in the future.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #71)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:57 PM

72. Without the 2nd Amendment. I repeat: How likely is it that your proposal will come to pass?

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:29 PM

21. "Stuff down the throats" sounds like potentially lethal violence...

Is that what you are advocating?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:51 PM

35. So does strapping on a gun to go to Chuck E Cheese, or patrolling the neighborhood like George Zman.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:54 PM

41. That isn't an answer, try again.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:53 PM

39. Sounds like a threat to me.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:45 PM

29. That at least is a proposal

However for someone who hunts small game, deer and ducks 2 guns would not be sufficient and we haven't even considered home defense

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:49 PM

31. Amazing how in the past people used to just manage with 1..

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:52 PM

37. There still are

General purpose calibers. For instance you could use a 12 gauge for any of those activities. It is not optimum and you are risking wounding animals and letting them get away or perhaps you kill the animal but it is so badly damaged that the meat is no longer edible.

I was considering that you would most appropriately use a small caliber rifle for the small game a mid caliber for deer and then a shotgun for birds. Those are typically the type of people would hunt with to ensure clean and humane kills while Hunting.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #37)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:56 PM

42. My grandfather, I'm told, used to say he only needed three guns for hunting:

 

A .22, a 12 Gauge, and a .30-06. That's enough to hunt anything in North America.

Of course, just because something is "enough" is no reason to mandate such a limit. And that "three gun solution" doesn't address self defense.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #42)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:02 PM

44. A wise man, your grandfather.

On the rare occasions I hunt it is usually one of those three that I select to go out with. I have however acquired a couple of other options over the years.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #44)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:10 PM

49. I hunt very little, and I've still managed to accumulate a number of "traditional" hunting rifles.

 

In addition to various .22s, a Browning BAR in .300 Magnum, a Marlin .45-70, a Swedish Mauser sporterized with a Mannlicher-style stock.

Right now I'd probably choose my AR-10 in .308 to hunt big game.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:17 PM

6. The problem with 'common sense' reform...

 

...is that neither side is using common sense. One side wants to ban everything except 16th century blunderbuss. The other side has no problem allowing fully automatic weapons and grenade launchers. The common sense answer lies in the middle, but anyone taking a position in the middle is viciously attacked by the extremists on both sides. So nothing gets done. Nothing will get done. Too much $ to be made in donations by advocating extremist positions...compromise dries up the donation pipeline.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:49 PM

58. Excellent post!

I'd add one more thing to your excellent comments. Neither side here is capable of making an argument without insulting anyone who disagrees with them.

Gun control extremists call gun owners "gun humpers" who don't care who lives and who dies. NRA extremists call the gun control people fascists who want to turn the US into North Korea.

It's like two nasty children screaming at each other on a playground. And that's no way to make friends and influence people.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:04 PM

61. You nailed that.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:37 PM

77. Well said.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:21 PM

11. Takes guts to do the right thing and stand up to white wing and NRA.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:18 PM

8. Legitimate hunting rifles and shotguns, you bet

Maybe even non auto pistols.

Semi auto weapons and military style long guns? No.

The price for the ability of the average schmuck to own these things is just too high.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:20 PM

10. Try to outlaw semiautos and you're making at least half the guns in this country illegal.

 

Never going to happen.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:22 PM

13. Similar crud was predicted on public smoking and Australian gun laws.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:23 PM

14. Public smoking isn't a Constitutional right, and Australia doesn't have a 2nd Amendment.

 

Not the best analogy, there.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:01 PM

65. Fuck the second amendment. It's bullshit just as slavery was bullshit.

Guns are disgusting.

Smoking is disgusting too.

Both are a public health hazard.

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Response to hunter (Reply #65)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:16 PM

66. Feel free to try to repeal it, then. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Until then, you're stuck with it.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #66)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:32 PM

69. I don't have to tolerate gun loving yahoos in my discussions.

Gun love is disgusting.



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Response to hunter (Reply #69)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:52 PM

70. So don't participate in such discussions. Problem solved.

 

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #70)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:19 PM

73. This discussion is about our presidential candidate and her position on guns.

I think there's no reason for Clinton to appease the radical gun crowd. They're not going to vote for her anyways, and it might be for the best if those gun lovers who can't stomach Clinton or Trump sat out this election.

Living in a community where guns are a very serious problem (cops and other "law abiding" citizens included, not just the gangsters) I have no tolerance for gun love. I can't imagine using a gun for "self protection" either. Fact is, the bad guy shoots first, and by the time more guns come out everything is FUBAR anyways. Guns escalate the disagreements we humans have among ourselves, and in the case of suicides, the arguments we have within ourselves.

I've been in many rough situations, worse than more sensible people ever expose themselves to. I've stumbled upon strangers in my home, and people breaking into my cars. I've confronted armed people. A gun wouldn't have made me feel better in any of these situations. I don't need a gun to feel secure. I feel more secure without one. Guns are not a good solution to any problem, except maybe hunting for food or putting down literally rabid wildlife. Nothing you'd need more than one or two bullets for, unless you are an idiot.

The second amendment is bullshit, a relic from a time guns were primitive and owning slaves was legal.

The defenders of it are relics too, and rarely progressive in any way.



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Response to hunter (Reply #73)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:36 PM

75. Therefore whether or not such a postion is wise or politically astute is wholly on topic, yes.

 

I can't imagine using a gun for "self protection" either.

Then you're very much out of step with the American people as a whole. From Gallup:
'


I don't need a gun to feel secure. I feel more secure without one.

So don't get one. It's your choice, after all....and being pro-choice is a good thing, last I checked.

The second amendment is bullshit, a relic from a time guns were primitive and owning slaves was legal.

And it's the law of the land. Since you don't like it, you can start working on repealing it. Get back with me in a few decades and let me know how the struggle is going.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #75)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:17 PM

76. Regulation of guns and smoking makes California a better place.

If you want charts and stuff, try this:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027919642

Your chart tells me most Americans are wrong. But that's always been the case about so many things.

Hell, U.S. American chose Reagan over Carter. The "average" U.S. American isn't too bright, and frequently votes against their own best interest.

Am I an arrogant SOB? Yes I am.

A good leader tells people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:23 PM

15. All 4 of my shotguns are semi-auto.

I think magazine size is the key.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:24 PM

17. A lot of people here seem to think you need to turn them in to be destroyed.

 

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:26 PM

20. Yep

Fortunately, neither our candidate nor party platform agree.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:39 PM

25. Agreed. All the cries here to ban semautos aside, it's not happening. Period.

 

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:26 PM

19. With the price already to high and going up every single day

don't bet the rent on that.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:41 PM

27. I only wish I could bet my rent money that all semiiautos in this country will not be outlawed in,

 

say, the next 5 years.

It would be the easiest money I'd ever made.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:20 PM

52. Because it's too hard, we shouldn't try?

 

Your defeatist kind is why so many of us are constantly dying in the streets. Dying in the streets.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:02 PM

46. So all of my bolt action rifles are not

 

authorized? They are military long guns. One dates to 1926

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:34 PM

22. But she wants to ban assault rifles

Her position is identical to Obama's.

Whatever we think (and I hate guns of any type, truly madly deeply), the Supreme Court, for whatever it's worth, already decided that individuals have the right to own guns (but left stand that restrictions could apply). It's incumbent upon the president or potential president to follow decided Constitutional law, whether it was decided wrongly in their opinion or not.

There is zero wrong with Clinton's statement, so I don't know what this OP is about.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:34 PM

23. Is there something wrong with that?

 

A vast majority of Americans support that position. Just not crazy or criminal people owning deadly assault weapons.

I'm a hunter and I hold her exact views. Semi-auto guns need to be tightly restricted indeed. But not all guns for most people.

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Response to rjsquirrel (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:39 PM

24. Not in my view, this post is meant for anyone who may have missed Hillary's recent interview re:

the gun control debate.

It has been a hot topic lately.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:40 PM

26. Ok thanks just checking eom

 

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:42 PM

28. Ban semi-automatic rifles completely

 

That's the only way to ban assault rifles. The AWB from 1994 was a complete joke.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:47 PM

30. I agree with her.

We need to find a way to restrict weapons of mass slaughter from those who would chose to use them for what they are designed for.

The best solution is to simply severely restrict the sale of war weapons similar to how we did back in the 40's for fully automatic weapons.

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:49 PM

32. Yep, Hillary has got this one right, IMHO.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:51 PM

34. So just to clarify..

She wants law abiding citizens to be able to own them, but also wants law abiding gun manufacturers to be able to be sued, if anyone goes crazy and uses one of their weapons to commit a crime?

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:53 PM

40. That was not covered in the interview. So, not sure about that.

That is something specific that you would have to google about, I don't know the answer.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:52 PM

36. That is what we have been trying to say

But the gun nuts are all twisting everything that is said getting all convoluted about terminology to distract from the problem.

Let's have an honest conversation and I want to see the gun advocates propose something solid instead of defeating everything that is said.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:59 PM

43. Ok

 

Instead of banning the weapon impose magazine capacity limits of 20 rounds. Semi-auto rifles don't fire any faster than semi-auto pistols and certainly aren't "weapons of war," at least in the sense that they aren't used by any military in the world.

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Response to TeddyR (Reply #43)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:02 PM

45. Personally, I think you are on the right track but maybe smaller magazine

20 rounds could still do some considerable damage. You need something that limits the duration that one can shoot continuously so that maybe they could be jumped.

If you can't kill what ever you are hunting with 5 shots, then you need to go the firing range.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:10 PM

48. This might be easier to implement than an AWB

 

And certainly easier than banning semi-automatic weapons altogether (which I don't think will ever happen). But at some point I believe the magazine limit becomes too small (5 is too small IMO). A handful of states have 10 round limits and those have held up to legal challenges so far. NY had a 7 round limit and that was struck down, in part because nobody currently produces a 7-round magazine. But there are plenty of stories about people needing significantly more than 5 rounds to protect themselves, either because they missed a bunch of times or because the times they hit did not stop an attacker. I suspect you MIGHT get a 20 round limit passed but anything less than that would be difficult, and I don't think there's any way that a law restricting you to less than 10 rounds would pass.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #45)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:13 PM

50. What do you do about the billion+ normal capacity magazines already in circulation?

 

If you can't kill what ever you are hunting with 5 shots, then you need to go the firing range.

Most states already restrict magazines capacity while hunting....and in any case, hunting isn't the issue at hand. The right to keep and bear arms is.

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Response to Just reading posts (Reply #50)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:21 PM

53. I'm a pro-Second Amendment type

 

But the argument regarding the magazines already in circulation applies to just about any gun control proposition that would result in a ban. For example, with an AWB you still have millions of those weapons in circulation that simply aren't going to be turned in by their owners. I'm not sure that doesn't mean you don't implement some sort of restriction on future sales. As I mentioned, Maryland and California, and maybe a few other states, already have some sort of limit in place.

And to be clear, in my opinion AR-15-type weapons aren't "weapons of war" or "machine guns" or "weapons of mass destruction" and are subject to Second Amendment protections. But if you are using them for hunting then you don't need a 30 round magazine, and I personally think that a sidearm is a much better home defense weapon (or even a shotgun). I also don't own one, though I probably would if the one I was interested in didn't cost $1000+. So I could live with (not necessarily be hugely in favor of) a law that limited magazine capacity. That said, doubt it would pass in the current climate.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:06 PM

47. I agree with hillary

Seems reasonable.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:14 PM

51. All gun owners are responsible and law-abiding, until they're not.

duh

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:23 PM

55. The Orlando shooter was on a watch list and still purchased a gun

Should he have had access?

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:33 PM

57. No. Most people shouldn't

because most people won't always remain responsible and law-abiding. That was supposed to be the point of my TIC post. Cheers.

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #57)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:41 PM

63. Except that where guns are concerned, most people DO remain responsible...

 

Except that where guns are concerned, most people DO remain responsible and law abiding.

That isn't opinion, that's fact. Problems with guns are caused by less than 1 percent of all who own them.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:01 PM

60. He was removed from the watch list after the FBI closed their investigation. n/t

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #55)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:25 PM

74. Anyone on a watch list shouldn't be able to buy a gun

Of course, the Orlando shooter wasn't on a watch list...

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #51)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:55 PM

59. Would that also be true for anyone who possesses an object or device...

Capable of inflicting harm on another person?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #59)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:07 PM

62. Duh

All Cadillac owners are responsible and law-abiding, until they're not.

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:21 PM

54. "If you don't love guns more than your own children,

you're not a real Murikan"

- Republicans

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:32 PM

56. Why does what she say even matter?

 

Her opinion changes all the time. She says what her pollsters say is more popular. Apparently now that Bernie has been dispatched, shifting to the right is the correct move to increase the odds of her winning. So what?

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:01 PM

64. How do you determine who is law abiding and responsible? n/t

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:20 PM

67. It's all in the definition of "commonsense reforms".

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Response to One Black Sheep (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:29 PM

68. I don't. I think we should stop coddling gun lovers.

Guns are a public health menace, like cigarettes.

People should be encouraged to quit guns.

Cigarettes killed the Marlboro Man, and likewise, many gun owners and their family members are killed and maimed by guns.



Second hand smoke is dangerous, so are second hand bullets...





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