I admit it, I'm dumb about alligators.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:16 PM - Edit history (5)

UPDATE: Authorities now say that the family was not wading in the water. They were sitting on the beach by the water, during or right after a Disney "Beach Night."


I wouldn't expect alligators would be living in man-made lagoons in a Disney resort. (Fake alligators maybe -- like everything else in a Disney resort.)

I didn't know that in warm weather, alligators feed mostly at night.

And I didn't know that their jaws could exert thousands of pounds of force -- so there was no way even a quick-acting dad could have pulled his child out of the alligator's mouth.

So I understand why that Nebraska family, attending a Disney-organized "Beach night" didn't understand the risk they were taking. Didn't understand that the "no swimming" sign really meant "stay off the beach or an alligator might eat you."

But how can the people in charge of the $75 billion corporation that owns the resort have been that dumb?

Surely they had to have known about the risk. Did they just count the occasional alligator-caused-death as a cost of doing business? But why didn't they have signs warning of the danger from alligators? And why the heck did they plan a "Beach night" that lured the dumb tourists to the water's edge at feeding time?

Why didn't they post one of these:

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=752&q=warning+alligator&oq=warning+alligator&gs_l=img.12..0j0i8i30.1390.5827.0.8154.17.15.0.2.2.0.71.729.14.14.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.16.734.zu65UIPBZ40


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-child-dragged-alligator-disney-20160614-story.html

In response to reports the family was watching a hotel-sponsored movie near the shore, Disney said it hosts such events but believed the film ended before the attack. The family was sitting near the shore, not swimming or wading in the water, officials said.

[liberal N proud]

1. Rule 1 in Florida - where there is water, there can be alligators

Rule 2 in Florida - there is water everywhere.

[TBA]

11. And they move from one body of water to another

and they are very hard to spot.

Floridians know you always assume any body of water has gators.... snakes too.

[GeorgeGist]

17. I didn't see those rules posted when I entered Florida.

[liberal N proud]

56. Ignorance is no excuse

If one does not know Florida is full of alligators then maybe theyou should stay indoors. Wildlife is wild!


Did you know there are bears in Florida too?

[pnwmom]

93. When a business invites families onto its property and fails to warn

the families of a major hazard, then the business may be liable for any injuries that occur.

It was Disney's obligation to INFORM their guests so the guests wouldn't be ignorant of the risk. But not only did Disney not have signs warning of alligators, they purposely held entertainment events near the shores -- at night, when the alligators like to feed.

[liberal N proud]

115. Signs saying no swimming

You stay out of the water.

People have to start being responsible for themselves and not someone else's fault!

And if you have ever been there, you might have noticed that Disney is a wildlife refuge. I am sure that was noted in the hotel literature. I know it wss.

So if I go to Yellowstone is the park service responsible if I get eaten by a grizzly?

[pnwmom]

119. No, not in other states. It means you don't swim. If they wanted guests to stay out

of the water, that's what the sign should have said. But they also could have simply posted a picture of an alligator, which is what many places in Florida do.

But officials have now acknowledged that the family was on the beach, NOT in the water. And the resort was holding a "Beach Night."

[Rosa Luxemburg]

127. Alligators

alligators can come out of the water very quickly and grab their prey. They certainly should have had warning signs.

[RKP5637]

185. Definitely warning signs about alligators should have been posted. Also on the canals/inlets, just

about any water, alligators sometimes flip out of the water and snatch a dog. They are very fast when they flip and snatch. Most people living in Florida know that. Tourists need to be warned. Also, there are bears in Florida. It's a beautiful state with an abundance of wildlife. Even some birds will attack someone is fooling with them. Some aim for the eyes. And, there are snakes. ... but usually critters leave one alone. Some huge alligators roam golf courses and the locals just live with them, generally not a problem. Alligators, for example, generally do not search for humans as a food source.

There is one problem, apparently crocodiles have invaded parts of the Everglades and they are dangerous. ... watched a program on it the other night. The authorities suspect someone brought one in as a pet or whatever and it got released into the wild, and the crocodiles feed on the alligators. It's a potential for a bad situation. Crocodiles will often search out humans for food.

[brush]

158. The problem is the sign didn't say "No swimming because alligators maybe nearby".

Disney is going to get sued and will lose and cough up millions, and deservedly so.

That's about the dumbest thing going — holding a movie night on a beach at night with the possibility of alligators being nearby.

Even one of the workers there was quoted as saying he told managers there should have been fences put up (he's probably out of a job now).

[RedFury]

162. Who was swimming when the attack happened? N/T

[liberal N proud]

167. Swimming/Wading is there really much difference?

You are in the water.

I guess they need to put up a great big chain link fence at the water line to keep people from touching the water.


If I see a sign that says no swimming, I am thinking that I don't want to be in the water. But these days Signs don't mean anything to the Stop signs are optional generation.

[pnwmom]

214. In a later report officials were quoted as saying the child was sitting

on the beach with his family -- not in the water.

But let's say the first reports were correct. There is a huge difference. "No swimming" signs are a common way for resorts to disclaim any responsibility for drowning -- a knowable risk to anyone, whether or not they were from Florida. The boy was, at the most, wading, under the supervision of his father. His father was making sure he wouldn't drown.

His father couldn't prevent him from a risk the father wasn't aware of -- of an alligator lurking silently in the dark, ready to lunge at them and snatch his son.

Other non-Disney resorts in the area and state park do have alligator warning signs. The state is littered with them. But people choose to go to Disney because it is supposed to be a fun, but safe and virtually risk-free environment. Few visitors would have guessed that those man-made lagoons would -- like wild waterways in Florida -- also be harboring dangerous alligators. Or that the resort would purposely host a nighttime social event on the beach during prime alligator feeding time.

[adigal]

196. I don't understand this thinking...if I saw a No Swimming sign, I would ask Why?

Before I let my kids even put a toe into it?

What if it is polluted with dangerous bacteria? Or if there is a steep drop-off, as there was in this lagoon. Unless you are right there with that 2 year old and he steps off, you will never find him in the dark.

My point is that I don't know why there is a No Swimming sign, but rather than ignore it (which, in all honesty, my husband would do) I would want to know what the danger is.

But I'm a bit neurotic, so maybe that's why.

And Disney is culpable for NOT being more specific with their signage. There were several alligator sightings right there that week that were reported to management!!!

[csziggy]

225. Yes - there have been brain eating amoeba in Florida waters

Florida issues warning about rare, brain-eating amoeba
By Jen Christensen and Jacque Wilson, CNN
Updated 6:59 PM ET, Thu August 15, 2013

<SNIP>

While 12-year-old Zachary Reyna fights for his life against a brain-eating parasite, the Florida Department of Health has issued a warning for swimmers.

High water temperatures and low water levels provide the perfect breeding ground for this rare amoeba, called Naegleria fowleri, officials said. They warned the public "to be wary when swimming, jumping or diving in freshwater" with these conditions.

<SNIP>

Naegleria fowleri is found in hot springs and warm freshwater, most often in the Southeastern United States. The amoeba enters the body through the nose and travels to the brain. There is no danger of infection from drinking contaminated water, the CDC said.
"This infection is one of the most severe infections that we know of," Dr. Dirk Haselow of the Arkansas Department of Health told CNN affiliate WMC-TV about Kali's case. "Ninety-nine percent of people who get it die."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/health/amoeba-case-florida-warning/

And there are types that live in salt water, too:

Unseen killer lurking in Florida waters takes Lake County man's life
Christal Hayes, Orlando Sentinel
June 29, 2015

<SNIP>

Cason Yeager died after contracting Vibrio vulnificus, a bacteria lurking in warmer waters that creeps into a person's system through open wounds — an unsuspecting menace that has long threatened Florida swimmers. His death is the fourth this year statewide attributed to the bacterial menace — and it isn't the only one swimmers should be know about.

The saltwater threat has caused the deaths of more than 50 swimmers since 2010, including one last year in each of Orange and Brevard counties. But even people enjoying a day on a freshwater lake or river could be in harm's way.

<SNIP>

Florida Department of Health spokeswoman Mara Burger said the department has had one confirmed case of Vibrio vulnificus this year. Yeager's death certificate states Vibrio as the cause of death.

She said the bacteria lives in salt water and enters the body through an open wound.

More: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-cason-yeager-water-bacteria-death-20150627-story.html

[Aerows]

184. Or if you jump the fence

walk 200 yards and fall into a geyser?

Oh yes, that is totally Yellowstone National Parks fault that you are evading safety precautions.

/s

[EX500rider]

134. "and fails to warn the families of a major hazard"

Florida has about 1.3M alligators... thousand of people swim in our rivers and springs and lakes everyday with no attacks.

In 2015, Floridians were rocked when the first fatal alligator attack since 2007, was reported to the wildlife officials.
According to state records on fatalities and injuries caused by alligator attacks, there have been multiple years-long stretches in Florida where there were no fatal attacks.
The statistics, which go back to 1948, show that the deadliest years for fatalities caused by alligator attacks were 2001 and 2006. Three people were killed each of those years.

[pnwmom]

135. There are two aspects that can make a hazard "major."

One is the likelihood, which in this case was small. And the other is the degree of possible risk, which in this case involved a fatality.

This was a major hazard in the second category. And worse, the resort had had ample warning -- and instead viewed the alligators as "resident pets."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027920273

[Aerows]

144. I'm going to call bs on that.

There isn't a person with a grain of sense that regards alligators as resident pets.

Okay, maybe some idiot wants to pet an alligator, but those of a sound mind are duly cautious around them.

I'll make fun of myself - we all know I got mixed up with a large troop of raccoons and that was disastrous.

Certain wild beings are beings that are under the heading of: do not want to fuck with. [font size=2 At all[/font].

If you do not have contact with such beings, you may think it's cute, cruel or pick an adjective.

My particular phrase is "that is deadly leave it the hell alone."

[adigal]

197. From one of the newspapers, a father who grabbed his kid as an alligator headed toward him

at the same resort reported it and was told it was a "resident pet."

I think it was in yesterday's article in the Orlando Sentinel.

[liberal N proud]

168. If I see a sign that says no swimming, I am staying out of the water

Don't care why they don't want me swimming, but I see it as there is something dangerous about being in the water.

[melman]

178. Yes

'No Swimming' means stay out of the water. Anyone should know that.

[rjsquirrel]

182. Note "first fatal attack since 2007"

and don't demonize wild animals. Human attacks are very rare. Pit bulls kill more Floridians than gators.

Accidents happen. Life entails risk. Nature cannot be rendered perfectly safe. People need to be responsible.

Already they are stupidly killing gators in the area. That's messed up. We have taken their habitat and moved in around them.

I've been within a foot of hundreds of gators on land and never fear them. (I'm a wildlife biologist!)?Respect them, be careful, but on land you can always outrun them as an adult they are very unlikely to attack you.

I have no opinion on Disneys liability here. I'm sure a jury will ding them good, and maybe it's deserved. But gators themselves are magnificent animals.

That's all, I just want to defend the animals. As a parent my heart breaks for the family, but as usual America overreacts. I'll bet a dog killed someone somewhere in the US in the last month. Does that mean we demonize all dogs?

[liberal N proud]

189. The demonizing goes beyond the gator.

I think they are really trying to demonize Disney

[truebluegreen]

234. This isn't Walt Disney we are talking about.

This is a big multi-national corporation that is in it for the money, period.

[cwydro]

69. Wherever I go, I check out what kind of wildlife might be around.

I spend a lot of time outside.

We're adults and should look out for ourselves (and our children.)

[liberal N proud]

169. Exactly

Go to Yellowstone, you know before you go there are bears
Go to Florida or any of the deep southern states, alligators and snakes.

Go to Main, Moose.

Know before you go. But it is so much easier to expect others to do that for you.

[Scootaloo]

102. You know how other states have raccoons?

Florida has archosaurs.

Plan accordingly.

[Aerows]

175. My state has plenty of all of the above.

I had to get burned on the raccoon thing to get a dose of "Oh, they are destructive leave them the hell alone".

Now our neighborhood doesn't feed them, thankfully, and they have moved on to greener pastures.

[Lochloosa]

25. Rule 1A in Florida...where there is water, there ARE alligators.

[deaniac21]

38. The Great Lakes must be covered in them

[GoCubsGo]

45. I didn't realize the Great Lakes were in Florida.

[liberal N proud]

57. Huh?

[Eleanors38]

66. That's a croc.

[kwassa]

202. ba da BOOM!

[bvar22]

72. There is one huge carniverous reptile near Lake Michigan,

Rahm.

[Scootaloo]

103. Actually, toads are amphibians. But there's still Walker and Snyder n/t

[Aerows]

187. I see what you did there :) n/t

[Atman]

154. I played golf recently in Florida.

Last edited Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Hit one close to a water hazard. My host said. "Don't bother, take a drop." I was like, hey it's not IN the water! Just near the edge. We approached the hazard and sure enough, a big-ass gator was sunning himself at the waters edge. I took the drop.

[liberal N proud]

155. Exactly

Not sure how that is scored though

[brush]

159. Two club length drop, no penalty. Check that — as many club lengths as needed to avoid being eaten.

[Aerows]

183. I'll take a mulligan! n/t

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

161. Including people's pools

snakes also ended up on people's pools. I've had snakes, but no gators yet.

[Ash_F]

215. Also golf courses

[Blue_Tires]

2. Yeah, I've had to learn a lot today as well

These two pieces answered all my questions, and hopefully they'll do the same for you:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/14/reports-alligator-drags-child-into-water-fla/85905266/

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-child-dragged-alligator-disney-20160614-story.html

[GumboYaYa]

3. I grew up in the parish in Louisisana that has the largest alligator population of any parish.

Where I grew up, if there was water, you almost automatically assumed that there were gators too. It would seem to be almost impossible to keep them out of most bodies of water even on Disney grounds. Even if Disney did not put the gators in the water, being in that part of Florida it does not surprise me that the gators found their way into the water.

Almost every gator attack I have ever heard of happened the same way this one happened....young child playing at water's edge near dusk.

[Ex Lurker]

18. Louisiana has more alligators than Florida, yet attacks on humans in Louisiana are a rarity

in fact, they almost never occur. They happen regularly in Florida. I wonder why that is?

[pnwmom]

20. Could one reason be that there are so many more tourists in Florida?

And tourists are more likely to run into trouble than locals?

[ManiacJoe]

43. yes, that is a correct answer.

[GumboYaYa]

70. If you grow up around gators you have a healthy respect for them.

I was always taught to stay away from the water's edge and be aware that any water could have a gator in it. Also, if a gator chases you run away in circles rather than in a straight line.

I never got very attached to my dogs as a kid. They tended to disapear with no explanation. I lived on a bayou and the gators would sun themselves in our front yard.

They are surprisingly fast in short spurts for such a large powerful animal. This is particularly true when they are coming out of the shallow water.

[bvar22]

99. South Louisiana is not exactly a Tourist Mecca.

I've spent a lot of time working and playing in South Louisiana, and am glad it is off the tourist circuit.
I hope it stays that way. Its beauty and culture is unique, the resources bountiful....and best of all, some of the best food in the World. It is a place to be careful, and not just of the gators. The locals can be suspicious and hostile to outsiders.

Gators generally hunt at night, and sleep on land during the day, but that isn't hard and fast.
They can be attracted by movement on the shore, like a fisherman casting.
A gator big enough to hurt you is usually pretty easy to spot. It is the Cotton Mouths that are more difficult to see.

In my years there, I can't recall anyone sitting on the bank of a bayou or canal after dark, or fishing from the bank after dark.

Gators can move surprisingly fast on land. The folklore states that if a gator ever chases you, run in a zig-zag because they can't turn corners.
I think this is bunk.
Gators hunt and ambush from the water. I don't know anyone who has been "chased" by a gator, and have never seen a gator chase anything on dry land. Females WILL defend their nests, and that can be scary, but that is limited to a small area, and you will be OK if you back away quickly..... remember to run in a zig-zag.

[GumboYaYa]

133. I love this post.

I can not tell you how many times I was told to run away from gators in circle patterns and by salty old dogs who seemed to know what they were talking about. My uncles, both of whom played linebacker for LSU, were the ultimate pranksters and that was always their story. I am not sure what is true, but if a gator ever chases me, I am running away in a zig-zag.

[bvar22]

138. And I LOVE South Lousiana Seafood Gumbo...

the kind that stays hot on the stove and has all kinds of things floating in it.... bones, scales, crab claws & shells, crawfish, shrimp, chunks of fish, okra ......
The kind that you have to eat half of it with your hands.
The kind where when you ask the cook, "Hey, whats in this?",
the cook replies, "You don't want to know," or "Everything I had left."

MY wife makes a great Chicken Andouille Gumbo. She would make more Seafood Gumbo, but it is difficult to get fresh Louisiana seafood here in Arkansas.

Justin Wilson:
"If you want to make gumbo, first you got to make the roux!"

[nolabear]

140. You're killin' me here. I need to go make some.

My granddaddy called it slumgullion when you just threw in whatever you had or could catch.

[GumboYaYa]

141. My gumbo takes two days to make.

The first day I make the broth...shrimp heads, chicken bones, pork necks etc. cooking so slowly it almost hurts. The next day I do the roux, add the okra and the onions, peppers, celery and spices. You can pretty much add any meat you want after that.

Some crispy french bread and a dash of hot sauce....does it get any better than that?

[brush]

163. Don't forget the filet.

[wheniwasincongress]

151. I've read

that the zig-zag running suggestion is no good, as you are much more likely to trip yourself up doing that. Running away in a straight line is safer and the alligator usually loses interest quickly, "they" say

[raccoon]

160. Tell you one thing, I'd set a record if I was running from a gator. nt

[Cal Carpenter]

28. Population density is more than 3X higher in Florida

I dunno, that was my first thought so I checked wiki. May have something to do with it. Plus the tourist thing. I would imagine the vast majority of tourists in Louisiana are going to New Orleans which probably doesn't have a lot of gators.

[Eleanors38]

32. 3rd largest state in union.

[Aerows]

40. Florida has a greater population density

and people that grow up in Louisiana know to stay the hell away from them.

Well, unless we are planning on eating one of them.

[Scootaloo]

105. Humans are also much closer to gators in Florida

Louisiana gators are statewide, but are most dense in marshes, estuaries and such where people just tend not to go, much less life. Florida though, they drained all those, and the gators were like "Fuck it, a golf course is fine too."

[Aerows]

106. They are pretty excellent

at adapting to any place with fresh water, and are pretty belligerent about not moving on once they have settled.

[brush]

164. Don't they call them bayous in Louisiana?

[Aerows]

177. Or coolies. Like a stream or a canal.

That is a word they use for small flowing waterways in South Louisiana. People do still speak French.

[Hortensis]

59. Regularly? No. Overall quite rare given how

many alligators and people there are. I'm not any kind of Floridian, though, and right now this dreadful tragedy is making this grandmother feel nervous several hundred miles away. It was apparently just a small gator...

Our old vacation mobile home on 1/3 acre down there has wild pond and marsh on two sides, three if you count the far side of our next-door-neighbor, and there are mature alligators out there. No one's ever been killed in our neighborhood or I think even that anyone we know has ever heard of, but a neighbor once saw the woman who lived before us in our trailer being paced by a large gator as she strolled along the shoreline that runs parallel to our trailer and patio--only 20 feet away from them for their entire length, much closer still to the old well and shed.

I walk down to the water whenever I feel like it, but I never hang at or walk along it for any length of time--or sit on the little old dock with any regularity, and, laughably snowbirdish or not (and our neighbors think it is), I always check the patio before going out onto it at night. And now I'll be even more careful when our grandchildren visit. This is the kind of thing I won't be able to forget.

[Ex Lurker]

63. A place where I fish has some goats that hang out on a hillside near the water

and the gators definitely are aware of them when they are in the area.

[Eleanors38]

65. Any viewing area is likely to draw gators, as some dumb asses feed them...

If you have a baby or small dog with you, the gators inevitably migrate closer to them, waiting.

[Hortensis]

82. I certainly believe it about the goats. Friends

sometimes bring dogs to visit and some are way too casual about it imo. We love our beautiful marsh because it is wild, but we are all in the food chain.

[1939]

128. Fluffy is a gator snack NT

[Eleanors38]

204. In te Pan Hndle, hunters had their dogs go missing near a pond. Fnally, someone

figured out one particular gator waited there on a regular basis whenever he heard the dogs baying during hunting season. The Holy Thunderer was said to push 16 feet, and capable of abstract thought.

[Eleanors38]

64. Attacks are very rare. I worry more about moccasins and yellowjackets (yuck!).

[Hortensis]

71. My husband killed a moccasin last spring.

Yellowjackets...yes.

We can shine a flashlight out at night, though, and often see widely spaced eyes shining back closer than we usually see anything in the daytime. Gators are very shy, of course, and the 10' one that used to sun right across the water from our patio when we first bought apparently now spends his days farther out. Many good fish are in the deep water close by, though.

I think it'd be helpful if, instead of people advising not to teach gators to associate people with food, they instead told them gators are born associating us with food and it's very wise not to teach them to come for it...

[GumboYaYa]

96. The eyes at night are just freaky.

We would gig frogs at night. It was always so scary. At times it is difficult to tell a gator's eyes from a frogs eyes when you are using a spotlight.

[Hortensis]

130. Yes to freaky. But fascinating, too--

from the safety of our lawn chairs. None of this actually getting out there.

[Aerows]

79. Feral hogs.

That's something nobody wants to deal with.

Lock all of the alligators up with all of the feral hogs, and I'm not sure what would be the result of that.

I suspect that it would end up being an even-sided engagement.

[Eleanors38]

118. Another dubious gift from DeSoto.

[Aerows]

146. The false "fountain of youth" Ponce de Leon

was more dubious and yet they lauded him p

[Eleanors38]

201. He spent too much time looking into his own cistern.

[Raissa]

208. The hogs scare me more!

I've been chased by the demons. Gators I can predict pretty well. Hogs, not so much.

[Aerows]

219. One you *might* be able to outrun (gators)

The other you are praying for somebody slower than you running behind.

[Raissa]

220. I've thankfully never had to run from one!

That's not a fight I'd likely win. I've worked with plenty of gators without that experience and am totally good with it. Lol. But to be fair I almost didn't outrun the hogs either. Got back to the car just in time.

[Aerows]

75. Yep, at dusk

that is a typical time for them to strike. During they day, they bask to digest their food because they are cold-blooded. When dusk arrives, they get active to hunt.

They can snatch a cat, a dog or worse, a child in a second. They *look* slow, but when they are motivated, they can move like lightning.

[liberal N proud]

170. Exactly - you expect to find them in the water

And you respect their space.

I have heard of a lot of people losing dogs this way. When in Florida with our dog, we always check the yard before taking her out. And never go near the water.

[Gothmog]

4. I have stayed at the Grand before and had dinner there a month or so ago

The Grand is the last hotel on the monorail before the Magic Kingdom and there is some undeveloped land and a canal where they store the boats for the light show on the water. The main beach is away from this area but the family could have been at the area near the boat docks which is closer to the undeveloped area. There is a little island that is not too far from the beach which could be a resting place for alligators.

Disney captures any alligators or other fauna that gets too close to the resort areas. You hear reports of this from time to time.

The Grand is the most expensive hotel on property and I am shocked that this happened.

I live in Texas and we see gators all of the time. There is a state park about 15 miles from my house that has a ton of gators and both my son's boy scout troop and my daughter's girl scout troop have camped there. You do not want to be camping there in May because that is the mating season and the gators are really noisy during this period.

We had a gator in one of the nearby subdivisions a month or so ago and another gator was captured in the parking lot of a shopping center. The recent floods no doubt cause some of this.

You can not bring dogs to this park except on a leash and they can not stay out overnight if you camp. A gator can out run a man for about ten to 25 feet and so you keep your distance.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. I've seen one gator in my life ...

he/she was close to my golf ball ... I decided she/he could have it, and went back to the tee-box to hit a second ball; but, my playing partner went and got the ball ... seeing the gator is more afraid of you than you are of it.

I laughed and said, "No, he's not."

[Gothmog]

74. The rule of thumb is that a gator can out run a man for ten to 25 feet on land

So long as you maintain a safe distance on land you are okay. It is not a good idea to swim with gators which is one reason why tubing does not appeal to me

[1StrongBlackMan]

80. I was happy, opting for staying in the cart and driving down the other side of the fairway. ...

May Titleist cost about $3.00, which is far less than the cost of laundering my pants because I'm sure, if the gator even looked like he was going to come after me, I would have soiled myself.

[aikoaiko]

5. Gators grabbing children is really very rare considering how many kids and gators there are

I don't think Disney nor the parents are to blame. We can't live life in a protective bubble. There are dangers everywhere

[pnwmom]

6. I think Disney was at fault for not posting the same kind of sign they have at

State Parks in Florida.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=752&q=warning+alligator&oq=warning+alligator&gs_l=img.12..0j0i8i30.1390.5827.0.8154.17.15.0.2.2.0.71.729.14.14.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.16.734.zu65UIPBZ40

[adigal]

207. That one sign with the German on it too says to keep away from water's edge in addition

to the warnings about swimming But that is for saltwater crocodiles, which I have read will come roaring out of the ocean on many Australian beaches and pull people in.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. I thought Disneyworld WAS a protective bubble.

[pnwmom]

16. Exactly. And the risks are supposed to be "just-pretend." n/t

[yardwork]

31. Agreed. This is similar to shark attacks.

All the warnings in the world won't prevent an occasional shark attack off the beaches of North Carolina. There's no way to stop them. You go in the water you take your chances with nature.

This is very sad but unpreventable. People were killed in car accidents traveling to Florida for vacation this year. They don't make headlines.

There are alligators in Florida. They occasionally attack people. There's nothing we can do about that.

[RAFisher]

101. Exactly. The reason this is news is because it rarely ever happens

Alligators are everywhere on the campus of University of Florida and you never hear about attacks.

[csziggy]

231. Disney has allowed feeding of gators for years even though it is illegal

Just check YouTube videos for people feeding them and the recent interviews with Disney employees who warned management how dangerous that can be. Disney did not discourage this ILLEGAL activity.

Feeding alligators removes their fear of humans and conditions them to expect food where there are people. Combine that with having small children or pets close to the alligator habitat and you get tragedies. Thirty years ago a child was seriously injured by a gator at Disney World (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2016/06/16/30-years-ago-another-boy-was-attacked-by-an-alligator-at-disney-here-is-his-story/) but any lesson that might have been learned has been forgotten over the decades.

Disney has a wildlife management employee but he was NOT doing his job. He should have insisted that Disney prevent guests from violating the feeding ban and that Disney post adequate warnings about the dangers of alligators.

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission information
http://myfwc.com/media/310176/Alligator-BiteFacts.pdf

Regulations:
http://www.myfwc.com/media/1531908/alligator-rules-booklet.pdf

How To Handle Alligator Encounters
What To Do -- And NOT

Alligators in Florida are still a protected species, despite their huge numbers. The old saying is that the smallest Florida lake holds at least one alligator.

<SNIP>

What Not To Do

Don't swim outside of posted swimming areas or in waters that might contain large alligators. Swim only during daylight hours. Alligators most actively feed at dusk, dawn or at night.

<SNIP>

Never feed or entice alligators - it's dangerous and illegal. Alligators overcome their natural shyness and become accustomed or attracted to humans when fed.

Inform others that feeding alligators is a violation of state law and that by feeding alligators, people create problems for others who want to use the water for recreational purposes.
http://www.floridawildlifeviewing.com/florida_travel_tips/gatorEncoun1.htm

Don't Feed the Alligators

Feeding of Alligators and Crocodiles in Florida is illegal. Statute 372.667 makes it a misdemeanor to feed Alligators or Crocodiles.

Feeding of alligators causes them to lose their natural fear of humans. They associate humans with food, and if another human comes along and doesn't have food, they may attack that person (especially if it is a little person).
http://www.sno-bird.com/dontfeed.htm

I don't blame the parents - they were ignorant because Disney did not inform them of the risks in any way. I expect Disney will settle with a non-disclosure clause. I hope the parents insist that Disney post signs warning of the dangers and that Disney enforce the law about no feeding alligators.

[aikoaiko]

233. Having read and learned more, I think you are correct. Disney should have done more.

[geomon666]

7. Aligators have been found swimming in swimming pools.

They will go where there is water. You find them everywhere. Drainage canals, swimming pools, water hazards on golf courses, etc.

That being said, there should've been warning signs posted all over that place.

[Fuddnik]

34. We have a 10 footer in a drainage pond next to a bar we frequent.

The pond is enclosed with a 6 foot concrete wall, topped by a 6 foot chain link fence. He must have gotten in through a drainage pipe as a baby, and he can't get out now. He's been in there at least 4 years, that I know of.

Since he's not "in the wild", but captive, people toss him food. During football season, people stop at Publix and buy him chickens, and feed him leftovers. Gators will eat french fries.

But, that's the reason it's against the law to feed them in the wild. They quickly associate humans with food, and whenever someone walks up to the fence, he swims over and waits for his snack.

[JanMichael]

124. There was one in the pool at the house next to my parents house 1 week after moving in.

Ugh. The pond behind their house wound through several neighborhoods and was teeming with gators.

[cwydro]

8. Alligators are just modern day dinosaurs.

I loved seeing them when I lived in Florida.

In the Everglades, we used to go to Five Mile Pond, and shine flashlights around.

Their eyes glow ruby red at night. Rubies everywhere.

Very cool sight, until we realized one pair of eyes was between us and the car.

[ksoze]

12. Actually birds evolved from a group of dinosaurs

[cwydro]

51. Very true.

[FSogol]

13. Did you run across their backs like Indiana Jones?

[cwydro]

53. Lol, no. But we went canoeing at that same Five Mile pond.

Huge gators all around. One came right toward us ( a very large one) and we froze.

She submerged the second she reached our boat, and we could hear and feel her back rumbling against the bottom as she swum under.

It was a homemade wooden canoe, very stable, but I was still a bit freaked.

[JHB]

77. Did Indy do at too?

Or are you thinking of Bond in "Live and Let Die"?

[Travis_0004]

120. I don't think indy did that

Some people in Temple of doom fell off a bridge that was cut in two and were alligaor dinner, but I think Indy was at lest 50' away at all times.

[nolabear]

9. Gators are all over in those parts. They are getting crowded out too.

I'm a fan of alligators. I grew up where they're a part of the landscape and culture. They're surprisingly intelligent, they care for their young, they get far too accustomed to people and they'll grab your pet in a heartbeat.

I'm not surprised the gator got into the lagoon. This is a godawful, tragic accident and I feel for those poor parents. Jesus...

[TBA]

14. Lost my poodle to a gator when I was 13

So sad what happened to this child.

[nolabear]

15. They're like coyotes and bears in other areas.

I'm sorry about your dog.

[Eleanors38]

19. There are twice as many alligators than deer in Florida...

If there are no alligators in a water body, don't swim in it -- the water is bad. Always approach a shoreline carefully. Any gator or croc can lay just below the surface without moving in hopes a small animal will come near enough. Swimming in lakes, rivers during late spring (hello!) is dangerous because female gators are on nest, which can be a hollowed out space at and below the -- yep -- shore of a water body.

In the middle of the U of F. Campus (50k students), gators occupy tiny ponds in the core of the arts & sciences area, and move back & forth when they feel like it. Lake Alice (a fair sized one) is full of ruby lights st night, and during chiily days gators will sun themselves on spits where tourists come to view wildlife. On the edge of the Col. of Ag is an even larger lake (Bivens Arm) where at one time there were more gators per acre than anywhere else in the state.

But the biggest are a few miles away on Payne's Prairie State Park. You can see some leviathans in the 13-14' range. The ranger there said there are likely some 16'-footers in the mix. These approach the legendary monsters written about when Florida was a frontier. Here, you can walk among them along an old 19th century dyke at your own risk. If a gator is hanging out there, don't get near. When they move, it is special effects speed.

[pnwmom]

23. And when I googled, I found many "Danger: alligator" signs.

But there were none around the Disney lagoons -- where many tourists come from far away and have no knowledge about alligators.

How come state parks in Florida have alligator warning signs, but they're not required at Disney lagoons?

[Eleanors38]

39. Disney is the prototype corporate city state, and has enjoyed virtual independence from any gov.

[jberryhill]

229. It's like North Korea, but has a friendlier despot

[Aerows]

27. "When they move, it is special effects speed."

That is what makes them so deadly. They can be so slow, but then snap at 35mph.

Most of the time they are just basking in the sun because they have eaten and need sun to help digest their meal. The second they decide they are hungry ... they are nothing to play around with, so assume they can grab you or your pet in a heartbeat.

[Eleanors38]

62. That fixed, mouth-open position is for heat regulation, not threat.

[Aerows]

76. They are cold-blooded

and like all reptiles, must bask to aid digestion. It's just so damn hot down here at times that even the alligators need air conditioning.

[Eleanors38]

205. When sunnng on land in winter, they clock their bodies to follow the sun.

[edhopper]

42. you are bringing back memories

of my college days in the 70s.

[Eleanors38]

61. As a kid, my Mom & Dad took us to Lake Wauburg for fishing, swimming and picnics in the 50s.

Very beautiful. We hunted the shorelines of the prairies and lakes (can't anymore). But wild horses, bison and other wildlife still hang out in Payne's. And the Sandhill cranes still swarm onto IFAS land on the southside of G'ville.

Class of 70.

[edhopper]

180. Wow

they were long gone by the time I got there. Payne's was were we got the mushrooms.

There were some gators around, but they were still an endangered species. They are everywhere now.

[Eleanors38]

200. In the mid-70s, I picked blackberries on Payne's. The bushes were so thick and big...

I placed a bg sheet of card board on the bushes and layed out on it to safely pick the higher branches. There are now heavy wire fences alongside the two multi-lane highways which cross the prairie to keep gators from ot of the road. There are culverts to allow them passage. There were notable numbers of bald eagles there, even when they were endangered. Even more now.

[Corgigal]

46. Great info

Another thing that people don't think about, is that they jump using the power of their tail. You think with those tiny legs they are small and can't jump. They can, and do when you least expected it cause they are ambush predators.

Never be near a fresh water shoreline, walk a jump distance away. They can take your doggie right off the leash in your hands before your even aware. Poor Dad, he reacted so fast, still so sad.

[Eleanors38]

60. U of F owns part of Lake Wauburg's shoreline for a swimming area. Lifeguards have to check..

..the shoreline, barges, nearby foliated areas before opening to recreators each season, because of nesting dangers. One person ignored the warnings, and was grabbed by a gator and pulled to an area where it stood guard over the victim. The motivation was protecting young, and not eating.

[Hortensis]

86. I had no idea about Payne's Prairie. We've only driven

past on 75, never stopped, and it looks like prairie, mostly grassy and treeless. We'll definitely pass on the dyke, but otherwise thanks. There's a much smaller prairie not far from us, and of course since it's Florida there're bound to be swamp, marsh, pond, or river, etc., around there too. Next time we're down I'll stop and ask what's there.

[Eleanors38]

112. Payne's State Park is on the SE side of Gainesville, but there are other entries...

on the south side of 441 after crossing the Prairie. Fairly long walks out into the prairie, and a viewing tower about a mile in from the parking lot.

One overlooked experience: In late afternoon, early eve when T-storms start marching through, it is nice to take a rain chance, and watch the clouds march by, and egrets fly Feels like a 360° virtual experience, but real.

The prairie was a huge lake for many years after the Civil War when Alachua Sink plugged up with debris. Many sailboats plied the water, and small kit steam boats picked up and delivered ag products and people who had to get to the rail system through Gainesville. The "plug" uncorked, and by the late 1890s the lake resumed its prairie status.

[Hortensis]

129. Thank you, Eleanors. I just googled the area you

talked about. We are going to have to take at least one of those walks near 441. It looks lovely. It's farther on, but a visit up there would be most of the way to oysters for lunch at Randy's Rib Shack in Waldo.

We've walked a couple of short paths at the little prairie near us but didn't happen to see anyone to ask if there were better ones.

[Eleanors38]

203. Well back on the 441 trail to the overlook tower, you can see (feel?) the faint opening...

in the trees where once a stage coach route from Ocala to Samson was used. Near Waldo was a 19th century canal cut to Lake Alto, which connected to the beautful Santa Fe Lakes. Goods were poled or moved by mini steam boats from the lakes to the railroad in Waldo.

I'll try Randy's Rib Shack in Waldo!

[Hortensis]

216. I love connections to a past that's not

100% memory only. I suspect you'd like Randy's. Simple food particularly well prepared.

[adigal]

209. I just googled Payne's State Park and there are wild horsed there, too

Do gators ever go after the horses?

[MH1]

21. I was in Orlando several times years ago, and went to nature areas.

(I am not a fan of Disney attractions ... will only go if dragged kicking and screaming and in exchange for a promise that we'll go to a park or nature area of some sort of my choice for the next day's activities)

There were signs EVERYWHERE about alligators. I'm sure I was also briefed by whoever planned the trip. Anyway it was very clear to me that being anywhere near water was a risk for alligators, so have to be alert and ready to get the heck out of there.

It really does bother me that Disney wasn't clear about the alligator danger, if that is true. This is why I don't even like Disney stuff. They try to be some trumped up fantasy crap when the real world is incredibly beautiful, fascinating, and amazing on its own. Why can't we teach kids to be as interested in nature as they are in fake crap? Not that that would have made the child safe ... but the parents would have seen warning signs to tell them of the danger.

[pnwmom]

26. I've only been to the Disney park in California, and there was nothing real there.

Fake pirates and fake everything else. If they had had alligators, they would have been fake, too.

So I don't blame these Nebraska parents for being unaware of the REAL danger in these man-made Disney lagoons.

[Aerows]

33. You advertize as "PNW"

Are you unaware of coyotes? Are you unaware of cougars?

There is deadly wildlife everywhere and to pretend that people shouldn't have situational awareness is plain idiocy.

Care about your kids? Watch them and keep them from harm. Care about your pets? Watch them and keep them from harm.

The laws of nature are a bit stronger in certain areas than the "laws" we attempt to impose.

[cwydro]

67. When I first moved to Florida, the first thing I did was to ask about gators.

Worried about my dogs, I asked my Florida friends where gators were likely to be.

Everyone of them looked at me and said, anywhere you see fresh water in central Florida, there's gators.

I ended up seeing them everywhere, and my water loving dogs had to do without swimming until we moved to the Keys.

[Aerows]

73. Exactly

You have to pay attention because they can snatch a dog or a cat (or even worse unfortunately, in this instance a child) in a heartbeat. They tend to hunt at dusk and dawn but that is by no means the only time. Around freshwater, you have GOT to be aware.

Which Key are you on?

[cwydro]

85. Ah, sadly, Aerows, I'm no longer on a Key lol.

I lived in Key West though for over 20 years, with a couple years on Big Coppitt Key and Big Pine Key.

Loved it.

[Aerows]

88. I went a couple of times when I lived in Florida.

Do you remember the man with all of the trained cats on the boardwalk?

That was a sight to see!

[cwydro]

117. Absolutely! At sunset celebration.

And Will Soto, the tightrope guy.

I actually picked up the cat guy (can't remember his name now) at the airport in my taxi back in the day. He had some cats with him.

Lots of memories from those days.

[adigal]

210. We were looking at real estate in St. Petersburg and there is a small lake in one nice neighborhood

I think it was Crescent Lake. I asked if there were gators in there and the realtor was hedging - but finally said that anywhere there is water in Florida, assume gators. Even if it's the middle of a city. I was amazed!!!!

[Shrike47]

211. Coyotes don't go after humans, as far as I know. I would love to see a cougar. Oregon.

Most of our critters are shy, shy, shy. Of course, if encountered they must be respected, but you can walk around in the woods and brush fairly safe from animals.

[Eleanors38]

41. Best "tourism" in FL.: Cheap motel in G'ville or High Springs, within 2 hrs of either coast...

....getting to them is still tolerable traffic-wise. Jaunts to Augustine, crystal-clear rivers with canoe rentals, fishing, parks, and all the arts/cultural events of the University, and pretty good scene in Gainesville without many tourists. The area is called "The Other Florida."

[KamaAina]

47. Good luck with that on game weekends

[Eleanors38]

58. That's why god made calendars!

[csziggy]

92. The best time of year to come to Florida is after football season, anyway

Temperatures are cooler and the birding is much better in December and January.

But I'd stay further south, the better to get to Merritt Island and all the state parks downstate, though there are plenty all over the state: https://www.floridastateparks.org/ . The Lakeland area is decent though more right wing politically than Gainesville.

Of course, I have an advantage - I can drive a few miles further south and stay with my Mom.

[Aerows]

181. Never, ever

go camping in Florida in July.

Please don't ask me to go into detail.

[csziggy]

190. LOL! I can imagine.

Friends of my husband from his college years gave a party on the beach of St. George Island as a celebration of the end of the year. They bought a keg and had a barbeque. One guy had an huge army surplus tent so they set that up for shade.

About fifty people showed up for the free beer; some provided chips and other snacks but no one had water, sunscreen, or camping gear. On the beach, in Florida, in mid June.

I went Saturday afternoon and took two huge fish shipping crates made of styrofoam, filled them with watermelons, then packed ice around them. When I got to the party some of the people had been there since Friday morning with only beer to drink. They mobbed my car - ALL the ice and water that had melted from it was gone before they stared in on the watermelons.

While the party was a success, the attendees all had serious sunburn and many, many bites from sand fleas and mosquitoes.

Forty years later they still give those parties - but every one since has been in December. While it can get chilly, it is much less life threatening!

[GulfCoast66]

193. Cool story

SGI is my favorite place in this amazing. Have been spending weeks there for over 20 years including a week planned this August...

[csziggy]

195. Frankly St. George Island has gotten too built up

The party I was talking about was about 1975. It was much less commercialized back then. Oh well, that was true of most of the state compared to now. And my family goes back to 1925 in the state - talk about less developed!

[GulfCoast66]

198. That is true

I started going in the mid-90's and there was little development compared to now.

But when compared to any other beach town in the state it is still magical.

Would love to have seen it in the 70's. We're there even any businesses on the island then?

[csziggy]

237. St. George Island had a few businesses - mostly catered to fishing and locals

Hippy type college students were no real welcome.

I really only went there a few times in the 1970s. I was a college student working part time and the money for gas to drive there and back was a significant bite into my budget and time. Plus I never looked good in a swim suit so going to the beach was not high on my list of things to do.

Back then my group mostly went to the sinkholes to swim - even after we'd been to the beach they were a good place to wash off the salt water. The sinks were mostly shaded, and the water was cool since the sinks connect to the underground water system. Now most of those are in the Leon Sinks Geological Area in the Apalachicola National Forest and no swimming is allowed. The rest are privately owned and monitored more closely than they used to be.

[GulfCoast66]

199. And back to the this thread

I have seen gators swimming in the bay around SGI and photos of them sunning on the beach at Dog Island. So they can handle a good bit of salt water.

[csziggy]

238. They certainklly can handle salt water

Last year just before we went to a seminar in Myrtle Beach an alligator was surfing along the beach just south of there!
http://abcnews.go.com/US/foot-alligator-washes-ashore-south-carolina-beach/story?id=32849156

[csziggy]

84. I've lived in Florida all my life and have never been to Disney World

Absolutely I never will.

I remember driving up I-4 in 1965 and seeing the sign posted in the middle of a palmetto scrub cow pasture - "Future Site of Walt Disney World!" I thought someone was making a joke.

My sister, brother in law and most of their kids worked at Disney over the years. I could have gotten free passes to go at any time and never accepted them. Too many people, to much plastic, WAY too fake. I went to a seminar at a Disney Hotel in Lake Buena Vista (not the one where the kid was taken, the smaller, older one. I stayed down the road at a Day's Inn rather than give Disney any more money than I had to. That's as close to Disney as I will be!

I'd prefer hiking through that old palmetto scrub pasture and look for scrub jays and other wildlife but much of that habitat has been destroyed. Lake Kissimmee State Park preserves some of it and of the history of the area - https://www.floridastateparks.org/park/Lake-Kissimmee

Here is a picture from their gallery of what the land Disney World used to look like:
?itok=Yi2jAQYo

Rather than go to Orlando I spent a week at Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge - and enjoyed the time more than I ever could a theme park. My husband I plan trips and vacations by locating birding sites. For instance, one sight seeing location I will go to is Bok Tower in Lake Wales. Not only was the original natural location a birding site, since the tower was built the gardens have been developed to attract birds.

Florida has a lot to offer that does not involve the tourist traps. People ought to check it out!

[TuxedoKat]

171. Thanks

for posting this info. Will add them to my list of places to visit!

[adigal]

212. Recommended 1000 time!!!! Fake Disney - never took my kids there, hated the idea.

We went to the ocean, where there are sharks and we look out for them, and the mountains, where there are bear and coyote. The real world, not some fake, sanitized version. Ugh. No appeal for me at all.

[Aerows]

22. They are everywhere

including on golf courses. It's an awareness that you have to have.

Don't confront them, get the heck away from them, and call wildlife control. There is a reason why it is a major agency along the coast.

They can dart at up to 35mph. They seem slow, and are, but if they are in a mood they can snap in a heartbeat.

[maryellen99]

24. I honeymooned at WDW in 1999 and stayed at one of the resorts on property and knew there were gators

[pnwmom]

30. I think that Disney should post the same signs at its man-made lagoons

that are posted in the State Parks. If there are alligators, warnings should be posted.

[maryellen99]

55. We stayed at the Wilderness Lodge which is on Bay Lake

Bay Lake is a natural lake but is connected to Seven Seas Lagoon.

[peace13]

29. In FL always assume that there are alligators in any body of water.

As evidenced here, it's not like a shark at the beach where you might wade along the shore and still be safe. These things walk up and grab anything they want. I feel sorry for the family. I guess Disney should add a graphic of an alligator to their 'no swimming' signs. That might be a reminder to visitors.

[Adrahil]

35. My heart goes out to the family....

My Dad is from Florida and from a young age, I learned that if attacked by a gator, or if someone else is attacked by a gator, press on their eyes. You can't force their jaws open, but you can squeeze their eyes which gets their attention, and will often cause them to let go.

[Aerows]

36. Yes, that is a tactic.

Whacking them across their forehead and eyes can get them to release their jaws, but I'm a big fan of not letting them get near enough to put their jaws anywhere.

[Adrahil]

37. Me neither! NT

[csziggy]

87. On TV today they said punch it on the nose

If the gator has chomped down on something. Hitting the nose will cause it to open its jaws while attempting to pry the jaws apart just get it to bite down harder.

I do agree the best tactic is simply to never get close enough for it to grab you!

[Aerows]

89. Whacking it in the eyes and forehead is more effective

but extremely less effective than not getting near one unless it is battered, fried and on a plate.

[obamanut2012]

44. No way is it Disney's fault gators are in the water

It's Florida. If there's water, even brackish water, they are there. I see them every day by the canal when I go running. It is impossible for Disney to keep them off of WDW property -- which is huge btw.

WDW has been open since the early 70s, and this is the first time this has happened, so whatever they have been doing has worked REALLY well.

Having said that, Disney will be signing a very large settlement for this family.

[pnwmom]

49. Don't you think they should have signs warning of the alligator danger?

Like they do around bodies of water at the State Parks?

So that no more unsuspecting tourists think it's safe to sit close to shore or go wading?

[obamanut2012]

52. They warn guests about alligators and not to go near the shoreline

Even during the day.

It's Florida. It is rare to see signs along waterways -- none of the lakes or canals by me have signs, except about whether or not they can fish there. I won't egt within 50+ feet of water around here at night.

I am sure they will now change the signs.

[pnwmom]

54. They do have signs about not swimming. The signs should have warned about

the alligator risk, like signs around the state parks.

[csziggy]

90. They could claim the "no swimming" signs are for brain eating amoebas

Unseen killer lurking in Florida waters takes Lake County man's life
Christal Hayes
June 29, 2015

<SNIP>

Cason Yeager died after contracting Vibrio vulnificus, a bacteria lurking in warmer waters that creeps into a person's system through open wounds — an unsuspecting menace that has long threatened Florida swimmers. His death is the fourth this year statewide attributed to the bacterial menace — and it isn't the only one swimmers should be know about.

The saltwater threat has caused the deaths of more than 50 swimmers since 2010, including one last year in each of Orange and Brevard counties. But even people enjoying a day on a freshwater lake or river could be in harm's way.

Naegleria fowleri, a freshwater brain-eating amoeba, has killed more than 30 people since 1962 in Florida. The rare amoeba lives in lakes, rivers and poorly maintained pools and is almost always fatal. Then there's necrotizing fasciitis, a deadly flesh-eating disease that can be contracted through bacteria in waters if a wound is present.

"I don't want people to avoid the water, but I just want them to know there's a risk involved," said Karen Yeager Mercer, 58. "I didn't know this could happen, so others probably don't know either. It's not only what killed Cason, either. People need to be more informed about what is out there."

More: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-cason-yeager-water-bacteria-death-20150627-story.html

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/naegleria/infection-sources.html

[Travis_0004]

123. I believe this is the exact sign

[pnwmom]

126. That's interesting, because all the accounts I've read say that the signs

only said no swimming, and didn't mention alligators.

For example:


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-alligator-history-20160615-story.html

Grand Floridian custodian Mike Hamilton was so concerned by alligators occasionally swimming up close to the shore of Walt Disney World's Seven Seas Lagoon, he said he warned managers they should fence off the area.

"There are signs that say, 'No swimming,' but no signs that say gators and everything else in this lake," he said.

SNIP

San Diego attorney David Hiden told the Orlando Sentinel on Wednesday that last year he whisked his son to safety at Disney's Coronado Springs after a gator approached the boy playing in calf-deep water. Then Hiden saw a second gator nearby. Hiden said a hotel manager called one of them a "resident pet" and seemed unconcerned.

SNIP

Alfred Smith of Charleston, S.C., said he alerted a Grand Floridian employee Tuesday night after seeing a gator in the lagoon. He thinks it's the same one that attacked the boy less an hour later.

"I did warn another family of three that had small kids too close to the water and they along with another family took their children and left," Smith said via email.

[laundry_queen]

148. That's not the sign they showed on the news tonight

It was a lot older, smaller and there was no alligator warning. And it was white and blue. Maybe not the same man made lagoon?

[csziggy]

227. According to TMZ that sign is at the Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress

The picture you posted is from this article:

Disney Attack Neighboring Resort Warned of Alligators
6/15/2016 7:13 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

A resort just a few miles from Disney's Seven Seas Lagoon where a 2-year-old was attacked by an alligator had a clear warning sign -- BEWARE OF ALLIGATORS.

The Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress has a lagoon similar to the one at the Disney Grand Floridian Resort. As we reported, the Disney resort has a sign saying NO SWIMMING, but no mention of alligators. The Hyatt went the extra step and warned of gators.
http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/15/disney-alligator-attack-signs-warning-hyatt/

[steve2470]

232. This is precisely what Disney should have done

Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress has NO shortage of business. It's a lovely place, pricey of course.

[csziggy]

235. Disney should also stop illegal feeding of the alligators

I posted a lengthy message with links to the regulations about alligators: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7926264

They have known for DECADES that this is a problem and did nothing about it. They had a thirty year old incident that should have informed them, plus more recent complaints from guests and staff.

I grew up next to a small lake with alligators in a neighborhood full of Baby Boomer kids. No child was ever harmed by a gator. A few pets disappeared, by the kids knew to keep our pets away from the lake, especially from dusk to dawn. We KNEW not to feed the gators and the gators never associated people with food in that neighborhood.

[steve2470]

236. totally agree! nt

[hobbit709]

48. I wouldn't jump into a chlorinated swimming pool in FL without looking first.

A gator considers anything within about 10 feet of the shoreline lunch.

[ancianita]

68. Gators are pretty much the opposite of crocodiles.

Crocodiles, besides having a thin, pointy snout, are active swimmers, aggressive eaters, rarely ever resting. Busy dinosaurs. More aggressive than gators. Crocs love running water, so you'll see them in rivers but not much anywhere in the U.S.

Gators don't do running water. They love murky, hot, mucky, stinky, still water. They can be fast when hungry but prefer to lie still. They'll choose swamp over pool any day. They dominate U.S. waters.

Crocs hunt day and night. Gators tend to hunt at a leisurely pace at night, unless something just happens by their mouth that they can easily reach. Crocs eat often. Gators only eat when they're hungry, which isn't necessarily every day.

Wrestlers prefer gators to crocs because gators are more pliant when sated. Though neither is completely safe, compared to gators, crocs are never safe.

Interesting factoid from a biology teacher in FL -- you estimate the length from the eyes to the tip of the snout in inches, and that's how long the gator's body is in feet.

[Hortensis]

91. Well, I wanted to know the sex of the 10-footer

that used to sun nearby. Apparently it's pretty simple. You turn 'em over and stick your finger in the orifice near the base of the tail. If you feel something, it's a male.

[ancianita]

95. Haha...

[randome]

78. Shit, if those parents had simply been armed with an AR-15 or two...

Sorry, this, like Orlando, was preventable, imo. Big-ass signs like those in your link would have been a start.

[JonathanRackham]

81. They're a major pain in the ass near Florida golf courses.

Water hazards are extra dangerous. They have million year old predatory brains.

Sorry, those are republicans.

[csziggy]

94. Yes, they are...

"I think it's two guys in an alligator suit!" No, it's way too big for that.

[kwassa]

206. Did you let him play through?

[csziggy]

213. I expect it's like the old joke with the 800 pound gorilla

"Where does an 800-lb. gorilla sit?"

The answer:

"Anywhere it wants to."

On a different note I didn't realize that the phrase has become code for an overwhelming force:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/800-pound_gorilla

But yeah - that gator can do whatever the heck he wants to. Nobody is going to stop him! I just some old lady does start feeding him cows.

There is a town and a lake named Lake Placid in Florida, too. In Lake Placid is a business called Florida Alligator Empire that leads alligator hunts - they say "We supply everything except your camera!"

[kwassa]

222. I'm only familiar with the famous Olympic Lake Placid.

nearby is this bizarre juxtaposition: the farm of abolitionist John Brown, where he lies a-moldering in his grave with the other conspirators hung by the US government. Right next to it is the Olympic ski jump. Out in the middle of nowhere.

[csziggy]

223. I grew up near Lake Placid, Florida

I was very surprised that the movie was not set in the Florida town. New York state is not a good place to grow giant alligators. Lake Placid, Florida is a wonderful place for great big gators.

[kwassa]

224. Alligators are not native to Maine? who knew?

Maybe it should have been about a giant lobster instead!

as to where it was filmed:

Almost the entire film was shot on location in remote locations in Lincoln, Maine, which stood in for the fictional locations of the film in the American state of Maine. Some scenes were shot in Vancouver and Surrey, British Columbia. Three different lakes in British Columbia stood in for the fictional "Black Lake": Shawnigan Lake, Buntzen Lake, and Hayward Lake.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Placid_(film)

[Aerows]

83. Gator tail fried in batter

is a rather tasty treat - they usually call them gator bites. They taste somewhere between fried frog legs and chicken.

It's a common appetizer in the cajun belt.

[GumboYaYa]

97. Alligator Sauce Piquant....one of the best things you will ever eat.

My people know how to make just about anything taste awesome.

[Aerows]

98. Alligator is pretty damn tasty

[azmom]

107. Is that you Troy? Nt

[Aerows]

108. No I'm Aerows

and if I didn't get a reference that I should have, please enlighten me.

Otherwise, I hope you find your Troy.

[azmom]

109. Swamp people. Used to watch it often.

About gator hunters.

[Aerows]

116. No, I'm more likely to wear loafers by day

fluffy socks by night, but do not get between me and my cowboy or combat boots when needed, or I'll thrust a high heeled shoe at you.

[GumboYaYa]

122. The parish I grew up in was one of the first to get tags to hunt gators.

Swamp people is shot where I grew up. I know some of the folks on that show. We would get 5-7 gator tags a year. My uncles and I hunted them together. I was about 12 when we started hunting gators. We would let chickens rot for a few days and then put them on big hooks in the swamp. When a gator got hooked, my uncles would pull it in out on the chain and my job was to shoot it through the back of the head. Before Swamp People came on TV, I told that story and no one believed me.

[azmom]

143. Very, very cool.

I'm a big fan of the show.

[geomon666]

110. I had some amazing gator bites when I was up in Palatka.

Unfortunately I had to wade through Trump territory to get them.

[Aerows]

114. Plain delicious, aren't they? n/t

[geomon666]

139. Indeed

I need to find a place closer to Homestead that makes them.

[Fumesucker]

113. Alligator Etouffee

Great stuff!

[Freddie]

100. They only like fresh water right?

My son lives 10 min. from Boynton Beach and I absolutely loved the warm water (after years of the ice water at the Jersey shore). Saw no signs about gators.

[Aerows]

104. They only do fresh or brackish water.

If it has the capacity to get muddy, gooey or cloudy, they like it better.

Salt water isn't their habitat.

[HooptieWagon]

186. There are saltwater crocs, but fortunately somewhat rare.

[Aerows]

188. The only crocs we see on the Gulf Coast

is the unfortunate number of people that wear them.

I'm pretty sure that the Gulf Coast has the hideous shoe market sewn up.

[Phentex]

121. I would not expect you to...

I am afraid of all sorts of wildlife so I like to find out what's common in the area when I visit. I grew up in South GA where gators could be in the ditch on the way to the swamp. And when the guy in the boat said don't stick your hand in the water, we didn't!

I think Disney should prepare visitors better than this. Especially when they may be completely unfamiliar with how common gators are.

I did see a mountain lion in California IN A PARKING LOT! Scared the bejeezus out of me and I got as far away as possible even though it was minding its own business.

P.S. I would not call you dumb, ever, about anything.

[pnwmom]

125. Well, I've never been in the southeast and

I've never been very interested in alligators before. We have our own hazards up here, and they're enough for me.

[LeftyMom]

132. Wow, that's super rare.

Even people who spend tons of time out in the wilds of CA (and people from the rest of the country don't tend to know how back of beyond a lot of CA is) usually have never seen a mountain lion because they're so shy around people.

So much for the idea that they'd lose their fear of humans and become a menace if they were protected.

[YvonneCa]

131. Great post. Floridians may know...

...that alligators are everywhere, but non-locals don't. I didn't. That family from Nebraska probably didn't know.

I fault Disney for the signage. It was completely inadequate to the danger posed by that lagoon. What an awful way to learn that lesson, that anywhere there is water in Florida, one should expect alligators.

[pnwmom]

136. Here's some info about the warnings the resort had already had -- and apparently ignored.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027920273

[ecstatic]

147. +1000. I didn't know either. And I lived I Florida (briefly). nt

[laundry_queen]

149. I agree with you

as a Canadian, I had no idea. Plus, there are a TON of ads in the winter here for Florida tourism and I can say that I've never seen any of them ever mention alligator danger. I have tons of friends that go to Disneyworld and no one has mentioned ever thinking for one second about alligators. I am a paranoid freak, but I probably would have assumed that a nice resort would have tried to keep alligators out or at least warned about them. Call me a stupid tourist I guess.

[uponit7771]

191. I didn't know either, I've been to Disney a couple of times... few if any signs warning of this

[RandySF]

137. Gators can be found golf course water hazards.

[Recursion]

142. There was a documentary a while back on the Alligators of Disneyworld

I think that's the title, even.

They tried to do a census of all the alligators on the property (though keep in mind the campus is huge and includes a lot of wilderness areas). It was pretty creepy.

[Aerows]

145. Situations like this make me wish

that I could be a tour guide/wild life consultant.

I'm pretty sure I've seen everything from gila monsters and hairy wolf spiders in Arizona, moved to New Orleans and saw birds, snakes and even plants you don't want to get near, lived in Florida and collected samples of anoles.

It's kind of my wheelhouse as a hobby.

Don't ask me about documenting mockingbirds, Great Horned Owls, and fuck the raccoons.

Forgot: I studied bugs independently, and well, the only thing in the universe that makes me screech in horror and run away is a cochroach.

If I could even get minimal funding, with a planned target result, specified through peer study papers.

It doesn't matter, I guess. I can look in the back yard, and no one needs analysis of things we've known forever.

[kentauros]

166. Well, then you might consider volunteering at your local state park.

They love people like you, with a strong interest in nature

Also, see if your county/parish extension office has a Master Naturalist program you can take. My father did that in central Texas and it helped him restore their land to a better natural state (such as getting rid of fire ants and re-introducing native grasses.)

[Aerows]

173. Thank you, kentauros

That is a wonderful idea. I love critters, big and small.

They wanted to fail me for a science project that was for pinning bugs because I brought in a small aquarium with grasshoppers. I didn't want to kill them.

[kentauros]

174. Yeah, there's no reason to kill insects to study them.

Plus, you do need to observe their life and habits while they're alive. Sounds like a perfect teaching moment for visitors

[Aerows]

176. I can't help it.

I love critters. Turtles (I think I have a few photos of them on the "turtle march", which not surprisingly takes place in March) are particularly beautiful - the Sliders are green and red.

[kentauros]

179. I love turtles, too.

We had some growing up, box turtles. And I remember saving one on the way to college one day as it was trying to cross a busy divided roadway (3-lanes on each side.) Luckily, it was almost across without getting hit, so all I did was come to a stop with hazards on and then helped it over the curb. I know I hoped it stayed in the wild ditch that separated the roadway.

[Raissa]

217. I'm with you.

I worked as a zookeeper up north and also worked in crocidilian rescue and relocation.

Now I live in Florida and while animals are no longer my main job I continue to work with reptile rehabilitation and venture across the states to see animals in their natural environments.

[wheniwasincongress]

150. The interesting and shocking thing about this attack

as you pointed out, is that a filthy rich company like Disney didn't have their asses covered twenty different ways in this situation. Don't they hire legal teams to pick through their rides and resorts with a fine-tooth comb, looking for any potential problems? I think even Floridians who grew up on a gator farm would be under the impression that a manmade lagoon on Disney property might be gator-free, let alone someone from Nebraska. People from all over the world visit the Disney locations. This was a massive oversight to not have a simple sign, with a picture of an alligator that everyone can understand, perhaps signs in different languages on the lagoon warning of alligators. I would warn of alligators around the entire resort - a sign in a restaurant that people will notice as they wait for their meal, a piece of paper left in hotel rooms advising that there are gators and what to do if encountered by one. It's shocking that Disney appeared to have missed this.

I don't know how this happened with Disney, of all companies. They will be sued and lose.

[pnwmom]

152. Right For example, in the CA Disney there is a lagoon with pirates. But they're not

Last edited Thu Jun 16, 2016, 05:15 AM - Edit history (1)

real pirates, who might kill you.

Just pretend pirates, like everything else at Disney. People go to Disney because they want to PRETEND. Not because they want to risk their lives with real, dangerous animals.

For that, they might venture out into a Florida State Park -- that is loaded with signs warning of dangerous alligators. The kind people think they're avoiding if they go to Disney.

[YvonneCa]

192. I agree they will be sued and will...

...lose. Signs would have created fear and fear goes against their brand. I think they made a choice to not advertise the alligator problem and to just deal with it by monitoring the lagoon. That mostly worked...until now.

[MFM008]

153. they bite

thats about all I know.....I knew more when Steve Irwin was around....he covered reptiles..

[quaker bill]

156. What is very unlikely, is a lawsuit

There have been fatalities at WDW on a number of occasions due to other causes like ride malfunctions and such. I do not recall a lawsuit going to trial over any of them. Disney settles this sort of thing very fast and generously.

I would also bet the signs will not be needed as every gator will be removed, real fast.

[pnwmom]

157. Alligator signs should be required as a part of any settlement because these lagoons

are connected to wild waterways.

So the alligators, even if all removed now, will be coming back.

[Separation]

165. Yep

After being stationed in Florida from r over 8 years, I come to know a few things. If there is water whee you can't see the bottom, there is a good chance there is a gator in there. Also, there is a river called the Hillborough River. If your feeling lucky you can go inter tubing down it, I'd stick to a canoe if even that. You are garunteed to see tons of gators in it.

[GOLGO 13]

172. Shoes & matching belts.

Don't want no big lizard in my back yard. Can't afford to feed it anymore.

[Gothmog]

194. This pisses me off

WDW is one of favorite places to go. I was there in May with my son. I have stayed at all of the deluxe resorts more than once including the Grand Floridian. One of the new additions at WDW are the Polynesian Villas & Bungalows which are on piers at the Poly and look really nice https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/resorts/polynesian-villas-bungalows/ These bungalows are expensive but house 7 people and were on my bucket list to do at some point.

Evidently there are reports of visitors at the Bungalows feeding the alligators from their rooms. http://www.thewrap.com/gator-attack-disney-knew-of-problems-staffer-asked-for-fence-at-lagoon-exclusive/ Disney has to stop this.

I am still a Disney fan but this report irks me.

[Raissa]

218. This is a statewide problem, unfortunately.

If you pull over by the canals and walk to the side to look down a gator will often pop up and head toward you.

I know many are fed by fishermen, both intentionally and not.

When gators display acclimation behavior - where they come toward humans for food - it creates a big problem.

I'm not sure how to best prevent people from doing this. They do it right next to signs warning them not to. It makes for interesting pictures and stories and people just don't think about he long term effect.

[sufrommich]

221. I don't know anything about them either,I just figure once

you're south of Tennessee,it's better to just stay out of the water.

[Silver_Witch]

226. Alligators are mean predators!

They eat small creatures including it seems wee children. My sister was chased by a gator 60 years ago. I see they have not changed. The resort should not have gators I. The waters near people. Silly humans!

[avatar123]

228. Disney is mostly at fault...

There should have been clear signs: "WARNING: Do Not Get Near Water" with a picture of an alligator. These people were from Nebraska - they wouldn't know what Floridians take for granted.

But I wonder if the father could have tried to grab the whole alligator and lifted him out? I assume it happened too fast and alligator was too strong and heavy. The father probably just had time to grab part of the kid, not enough strength to pry the powerful jaws, before the alligator disappeared.

Sad situation....

[pnwmom]

230. Adult alligators weigh several hundred pounds.

As it is, the dad had hand injuries from grappling with the alligator.