Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 06:29 PM Jun 2016

Oh dear. CIA has not found any link between Orlando killer and Isis, says agency chief

So sorry to rain on the Islamophobe parade. Maybe it'll wash away all the egg they accused the left of having stuck all over their faces...

John Brennan told the Senate intelligence committee Thursday that CIA has no evidence of a connection between Omar Mateen and the Islamic State.

The Central Intelligence Agency chief has not been “able to uncover any link” between Orlando killer Omar Mateen and the Islamic State, despite Mateen’s stated allegiance to the jihadist group during Sunday’s LGBT nightclub massacre.


Reinforcing four days of internal government assessments across multiple agencies and a Federal Bureau of Investigation inquiry, the CIA director, John Brennan, contrasted “lone wolf” killers in Orlando and San Bernardino last December with recent terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, which he told the Senate intelligence committee were “directed” by Isis leadership in Syria and Iraq.

Brennan described a spread-bet strategy by Isis as it loses territory in Iraq and Syria. The group’s “terrorist capacity or global reach” remain undiminished by US-led advances on Isis-held cities like Manbij and Fallujah, the latest developments in a war nearing its third year, and Brennan said the US should expect Isis to launch accelerating terrorist attacks worldwide, a reversion to its pre-2014 status quo.

“As the pressure mounts on Isil, we judge that it will intensify its global terror campaign to maintain its dominance of the global terrorism agenda,” Brennan said, using the administration’s preferred acronym for Isis.

But Brennan indicated that the shape of those attacks will vary. Isis is consolidating and “interconnecting” its foreign branches, he said, particularly its “most dangerous” branch in Libya, and also placing operatives in western countries, chiefly in Europe. It will also “inspire attacks by sympathizers with no ties to the group”, which Brennan said taxes security agencies’ ability to notice ahead of an attack.

More: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/16/cia-orlando-shooter-omar-mateen-isis-pulse-nightclub-attack?CMP=share_btn_fb

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Oh dear. CIA has not found any link between Orlando killer and Isis, says agency chief (Original Post) tenderfoot Jun 2016 OP
Though, I'm sure there are plenty of links between the CIA and ISIS tenderfoot Jun 2016 #1
but, but, but -- killings like this mean expanding the 2nd Amendment, while demolishing the 4th! villager Jun 2016 #2
He didn't want his Father to Know he was Gay Night Watchman Jun 2016 #3
"Hey, if I were gay, I wouldn't want MY dad to know about it, either!" melman Jun 2016 #4
You Haven't Met My Dad! Night Watchman Jun 2016 #7
"if I were gay, I wouldn't want MY dad to know about it, either!" tenderfoot Jun 2016 #6
what an insensitive thing to say. Remarkable, really. cali Jun 2016 #21
But you're fine with the homophobic dad... tenderfoot Jun 2016 #26
And for second place, this post n/t arcane1 Jun 2016 #35
I wish I had a parent that heartless. tenderfoot Jun 2016 #38
I don't think they are fine with the homophobia Arneoker Jun 2016 #66
And they're too "sensitive" to reply in the thread too. Just got a private message: arcane1 Jun 2016 #37
Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT. Autumn Jun 2016 #40
Winner of "most ignorant post of the day" arcane1 Jun 2016 #33
Except he wasn't Gay King_David Jun 2016 #43
I'd like to see the note he left for his father. GeorgeGist Jun 2016 #55
He swore allegiance to ISIS and they claimed him Ex Lurker Jun 2016 #5
So you dispute what the director of the CIA says? tenderfoot Jun 2016 #8
I dispute your interpretation of it nt Ex Lurker Jun 2016 #9
same here. Throd Jun 2016 #10
Me too King_David Jun 2016 #44
A story with implications like this can get played either way unfortunately newthinking Jun 2016 #47
CIA director is always right.... 840high Jun 2016 #12
only when it fits your worldview. tenderfoot Jun 2016 #20
Unbelievable King_David Jun 2016 #45
+1 840high Jun 2016 #11
Considering what information has come out about his behavior, ohnoyoudidnt Jun 2016 #15
In my view, it's not either/or. They were both factors nt Ex Lurker Jun 2016 #16
.+1 840high Jun 2016 #30
His sexuality and his fundamentalist upbringing are definitely factors. ohnoyoudidnt Jun 2016 #50
His father supported the Taliban, and posted about it on-line. passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #51
There's a big difference between using something for justification and actually coordinating. nt Gore1FL Jun 2016 #24
ISIS propaganda encourages radicals in the west to act on their own Ex Lurker Jun 2016 #29
I suspect the shooter in FL was going to commit the act either way. Gore1FL Jun 2016 #42
I'm sure ISIL was thrilled to claim him after the fact. Ilsa Jun 2016 #31
That's wht they tell people Warpy Jun 2016 #39
Yep King_David Jun 2016 #46
I agree Cresent City Kid Jun 2016 #54
Who hacked the killer's face book page malaise Jun 2016 #13
No they didn't melman Jun 2016 #14
Then the report on GEM$NBComcast is wrong malaise Jun 2016 #18
The FBI found 5 facebook 840high Jun 2016 #32
"In each one he pledged to Islam." Holy Freudian slip, Batman. LeftyMom Jun 2016 #41
Well buck up Director Brennan............. socialist_n_TN Jun 2016 #17
Haters are still going to hate though IronLionZion Jun 2016 #19
There are reasons to hate ISIS not related to this case. ohnoyoudidnt Jun 2016 #52
You do realize what he's referring to when it comes to a "link", right? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2016 #22
ZERO link to groups outside the US tenderfoot Jun 2016 #28
You're really not making sense melman Jun 2016 #34
Glad you agree with what I said. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jun 2016 #60
For those, here and elsewhere, who think hate is the solution, not the problem, that won't make jtuck004 Jun 2016 #23
I think he used the ISIS references to divert attention away from the fact that he was gay world wide wally Jun 2016 #25
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #27
You have proof he was Gay? King_David Jun 2016 #48
Purely circumstantial but he was seen at that club a dozen times and was registered to a gay dating world wide wally Jun 2016 #53
Not really, King_David Jun 2016 #58
I would think that "casing the joint" once or twice would suffice for his intentions, but who knows? world wide wally Jun 2016 #59
Lots unknown here ,The dude seemed totally fucked up King_David Jun 2016 #61
I'm Not Positing A Theory ProfessorGAC Jun 2016 #64
Hold up The2ndWheel Jun 2016 #36
see #12 840high Jun 2016 #49
If you are implying this means that Mateen's motives were not religious, IMO you are wrong. Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #56
Shooter claimed allegiance to two competing groups at the last minute. He was just shitting us. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #57
K&R.... spanone Jun 2016 #62
It's truly bizarre to call it Islamophobia when a terrorist is linked to a terror group melman Jun 2016 #63
Oh, thank god ISIS isn't directly involved. pintobean Jun 2016 #65
I said that already. He was a bi-polar, suppressed homosexual who was probably underahedgerow Jun 2016 #67
That means they didn't directly talk. ISIS sends one-way recruiting messaging all over Lee-Lee Jun 2016 #68
Ah, so the truth comes out... Wednesdays Jun 2016 #69
 

villager

(26,001 posts)
2. but, but, but -- killings like this mean expanding the 2nd Amendment, while demolishing the 4th!
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 06:33 PM
Jun 2016

That's what the "terrorism" narrative is useful for. Turning workplace shootings and homophobic slaughter into "terra! terra! terra!" works so well for certain special interests....

 

Night Watchman

(743 posts)
3. He didn't want his Father to Know he was Gay
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 06:36 PM
Jun 2016
That's why he made all those "pledges" to ISIS. Hey, if I were gay, I wouldn't want MY dad to know about it, either!
 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
37. And they're too "sensitive" to reply in the thread too. Just got a private message:
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:59 PM
Jun 2016

"I'm responding someone who claims his father is homophobic with 8 guns

and I'm the problem.

If you insist.

Ignoramus. "


Autumn

(44,762 posts)
40. Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:14 PM
Jun 2016

On Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:01 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And they're too "sensitive" to reply in the thread too. Just got a private message:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7924559

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack and bullying.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:12 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes...you probably shouldn't have sent that mail with a personal attack in it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Posting PMs crosses a line.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Where is the Personal attack? I don't see a personal attack here. I don't see any bullying either. Poster got a PM and posted what it says to a friend os theirs. If you sent the PM and feel attacked and bullied because it was posted you should say so, otherwise a response to a friend is not a bullying personal attack
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This whole thread should be yanked immediately, but since it's not going to be, this one might as well stay with the rest of the comments.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Ex Lurker

(3,808 posts)
5. He swore allegiance to ISIS and they claimed him
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 06:38 PM
Jun 2016

Self-radicalization and lone wolf jihad are a tactic ISIS is not shy about promoting. So whether he had any direct contact with them or not, they influenced him. You're straining at gnats to try to prove this wasn't about radical Islam.

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
8. So you dispute what the director of the CIA says?
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 06:41 PM
Jun 2016

Good luck with that.

Maybe some day something will happen to validate the conservative world view.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
47. A story with implications like this can get played either way unfortunately
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:38 PM
Jun 2016

This is one of the problems with a dishonest, "narrative" media that is willing to "make" a story even if it means lying and only "investigates" stories until they hit on someone important. And a government willing to lie to it's people.

Not saying either of those are happening in this case. It is a tragedy either way with political implication regardless. Even if it was ISIS for me their is a distinct difference between Wahabism (which is the fundamentalist vision that produced ISIS, and other forms of Islam.

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
20. only when it fits your worldview.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jun 2016

when has that ever come to be?

I wonder if ISIS will attack before trickled down economics gets a chance to work its magic.

ohnoyoudidnt

(1,858 posts)
15. Considering what information has come out about his behavior,
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:05 PM
Jun 2016

it is more likely he made the pledge as a cover. He was going to do what he was going to do and ISIS was not the primary motivator. If he had a nasty bigoted Christian father, he could have just as easily cited any of the Christian preachers in America calling for death to gays.

ohnoyoudidnt

(1,858 posts)
50. His sexuality and his fundamentalist upbringing are definitely factors.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:44 PM
Jun 2016

I'm not so sure about ISIS being a motivating factor as much as an excuse in this case. ISIS propaganda can incite violence, I agree. San Bernardino would be a better case for that.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
51. His father supported the Taliban, and posted about it on-line.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:49 PM
Jun 2016

His father hated gays and passed it on to him.

His father and wife both said he wasn't religious. I suspect his father isn't religious either...he just believes in the things that the Taliban taught and enforced, and that was his upbringing.

ISIS and the Taliban hate each other. I seriously doubt he was into ISIS or being a Muslim. I think he used it to detract from being labeled as gay. I think he hated gays because his family taught him to, and he was a repressed gay who couldn't come out because of his family.

Nobody talks about the Taliban any more...they only talk about ISIS. ISIS was just a way to divert attention from his real issue.

JMHO

Ex Lurker

(3,808 posts)
29. ISIS propaganda encourages radicals in the west to act on their own
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:51 PM
Jun 2016

so there's a difference in that they're not being directed or coordinated, but they are being inspired, and are in some cases learning tactics through the internet. Mateen and others like him may not have traveled to Syria, trained there, and been given direct orders, but to claim there is no link at all, as was the OP's contention, is being disengenous.

Gore1FL

(21,034 posts)
42. I suspect the shooter in FL was going to commit the act either way.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:30 PM
Jun 2016

Suggesting ISIS involvement was an easy way of hiding his self-hatred.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
31. I'm sure ISIL was thrilled to claim him after the fact.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:53 PM
Jun 2016

But this smells a lot like homophobia by a self-loathing gay/bi man who embraced radical dogma because he was socially awkward and rejected and fuggin nuts. It sounded like he couldn't decide between ISIL and Hezbollah.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
39. That's wht they tell people
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:00 PM
Jun 2016

who act out and commit crimes, claim they're a part of ISIL to scare the hell out of everybody else.

That doesn't mean they are.

Cresent City Kid

(1,621 posts)
54. I agree
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:59 PM
Jun 2016

"No direct link" is like saying Bernie Sanders' voters are not part of his movement because they have no official affiliation with the campaign staff.

 

840high

(17,196 posts)
32. The FBI found 5 facebook
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:55 PM
Jun 2016

accounts for the killer. In each one he pledged to Islam. Wish I had bookmarked the source.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
17. Well buck up Director Brennan.............
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:09 PM
Jun 2016

you still have that alligator that you might can connect to ISIS.

IronLionZion

(45,261 posts)
19. Haters are still going to hate though
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jun 2016

they will hate people who have nothing to do with any of this, simply because of how they look.

ohnoyoudidnt

(1,858 posts)
52. There are reasons to hate ISIS not related to this case.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:51 PM
Jun 2016

Of course, hating ISIS and hating Islam are two completely different things.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
22. You do realize what he's referring to when it comes to a "link", right?
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jun 2016

It means did he/didn't he have direct contact with ISIS or any other radical group through clandestine channels or that they knew of his planned attack. It has nothing to do with one showing solidarity for the radical Islamic state in their motive.

Of course, ISIS praised the attack, but their bigoted homophobic asses have shut up about it now for fear they might be linked to a "dirty homosexual". A point you miss.

By the way, Brennan also said this today.....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cia-director-predicts-more-terrorist-attacks-like-those-in-orlando-brussels-and-paris/ar-AAh8X3V?li=BBnb7Kz

WASHINGTON — CIA Director John Brennan warned Thursday that as Islamic State loses ground in Syria and Iraq, it probably will use “guerrilla tactics” to launch more terrorist attacks like those in Orlando, Fla., Brussels and Paris.

The CIA has seen “no sign” that Omar Mateen, who killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, was in contact with Islamic State or any other terrorist group, Brennan told the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Like the married couple who killed 14 people on Dec. 2 in San Bernardino, Mateen appears to have been self-radicalized online, in part by listening to jihadist sermons and watching videos of beheadings by militants.

Online exhortations and blueprints for attacks that are pushed to followers on Twitter and via encrypted apps can inspire individuals to “embark on this path to destruction” while evading a surveillance net that tracks communications and travel for potential signs of terrorist plots, Brennan said.


Now go start another thread calling the CIA director a "bigoted, Islamophobe asshole!" After all, it's the DU way....
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
34. You're really not making sense
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:56 PM
Jun 2016

How is it hating when he linked himself to ISIS? Who's being hated? Mateen? ISIS?

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
60. Glad you agree with what I said.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:41 PM
Jun 2016

Anything else?

Would you like to comment on what else Brennan said?

As far as hating, I'll leave that to the extremist religious groups you are tacitly defending. Hope you're proud.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
23. For those, here and elsewhere, who think hate is the solution, not the problem, that won't make
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jun 2016

a bit of difference.,

world wide wally

(21,719 posts)
25. I think he used the ISIS references to divert attention away from the fact that he was gay
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 07:46 PM
Jun 2016

He probably went to his grave believing he would never be exposed as a gay man. The terrorist angle was a "convenience" to him.

Response to world wide wally (Reply #25)

world wide wally

(21,719 posts)
53. Purely circumstantial but he was seen at that club a dozen times and was registered to a gay dating
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:56 PM
Jun 2016

site. So, it might not hold up in a court of law as "proof", but we can make inferences.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
58. Not really,
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:29 PM
Jun 2016

He had ulterior motives to familiarize himself with the community and to case the joint out while preparing for his suicide.

By now someone would of confirmed sexual relationship if he were gay.

He even took his wife to the club.

world wide wally

(21,719 posts)
59. I would think that "casing the joint" once or twice would suffice for his intentions, but who knows?
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:41 PM
Jun 2016

And what about the gay dating site?

King_David

(14,851 posts)
61. Lots unknown here ,The dude seemed totally fucked up
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 11:51 PM
Jun 2016

The apps he was on are hookup apps, doesn't make sense if he were gay to have them but no hookups.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
64. I'm Not Positing A Theory
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 05:45 AM
Jun 2016

Just throwing out a possibility. Could the gay dating site be stalking by someone who we now know had bad intentions?

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
56. If you are implying this means that Mateen's motives were not religious, IMO you are wrong.
Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:05 PM
Jun 2016

Actually it points to a threat from Islamic terror that's far more difficult to control. From your excerpt above:

It will also “inspire attacks by sympathizers with no ties to the group”, which Brennan said taxes security agencies’ ability to notice ahead of an attack.


In other words, Brennan doesn't think they missed a direct contact - but the Mateen type of attack is impossible for them to foil, because they have nothing indicating just when people with his particular mindset explode into violence, and no way to predict just how serious a dedication to violence any particular person with those leanings has.

If you are truly trying to say that Mateen's attack had nothing to do with Islam, then I think you are so deep in delusion I don't know how to interact with you. The not-so-subtle clues (declaration during attack, calling news station, making bayah to the head of ISIS, the multiple FBI investigations, and the multiple previous informants about his statements).

The only thing that cannot be doubted is that his attack had a religious motivation.
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
63. It's truly bizarre to call it Islamophobia when a terrorist is linked to a terror group
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 03:11 AM
Jun 2016

If it is Islamophobia, who is the aggrieved party?

Is it offensive to Mateen to be linked to ISIS?


Is it offensive to ISIS to be linked to Mateen? Where is this alleged Islamophobia?


By calling it Islamophobia you are the one connecting terrorists and terrorism to normal everyday Muslims.

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
67. I said that already. He was a bi-polar, suppressed homosexual who was probably
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:47 AM
Jun 2016

also a schizophrenic with multiple personality disorder and probably 20 more disorders on top of all that.

Dude was a messed up spree killing-mass murderer. Anything else he identified with was all in his head.

His wife should spend the rest of her life in jail for enabling these crimes.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
68. That means they didn't directly talk. ISIS sends one-way recruiting messaging all over
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:47 AM
Jun 2016

and many of these types only read the stuff and watch the videos and adopt the radical beliefs.

In fact, that's exactly what the smarter ones do to evade detection.

It's actually laid out in some of the Jihadi recruiting and how-to guides to avoid direct contact and just act on your own while making a public declaration of loyalty during or just before so they can stay off authorities radar.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Oh dear. CIA has not foun...