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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen it comes to what's best for Black People, it's time for White People to mind their business
The rise of Donald Trump represents an unapologetic white supremacist response to movements like #BlackLivesMatter and the presidency of Barack Obama. The frustration that many white men and women feel with the declining significance of whiteness is what compels so many to subscribe to his brand of nationalism. Yet that is not the only place where white supremacy rears its ugly head. Even in progressive circles, the specter of white supremacy is present.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2016/06/when-it-comes-to-whats-best-for-black-folk-its-time-for-white-people-to-mind-their-business/
Tarheel_Dem
(31,220 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)One of which I will no longer read after the things I saw written there. Omg.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)on a site that allows females to be called the c-word.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I saw one person try to ask for civility and they were castigated thoroughly.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)Response to bravenak (Reply #4)
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KMOD
(7,906 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)yuuuuge, my friend.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Kidding, of course. I hear you loud and clear. The best help non-blacks can provide is to offer support and to vote. Anything else depends on the situation, of course.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)As if the entire fricking world revolves around their hurt feelings and no one else is involved.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Response to bravenak (Reply #14)
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LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You will of course, provide us with an accurate example of such, yes? Otherwise, your supposition is merely that...
Response to LanternWaste (Reply #160)
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bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)We can fight the long, hard fight to the nomination, but Trump in the WH would make 2001-2009 seem like a golden age of enlightenment.
Also, any vote against the GOP at any level is a good vote.
Response to bigbrother05 (Reply #173)
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1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)allowing the our (mis)treatment by some supporters of a candidate affect whether we could support that candidate was stupid and emotional and illogical (to cite a few descriptors) ... I would think allowing the (mis)treatment by some supporters of a different candidate affect whether you vote, at all, is equally stupid/emotional/illogical.
What changed?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Especially :
That is coupled with a declining income and economic insecurity.
White people, including many Trump supporters, are experiencing (economically) what non-whites have always experienced.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The leveling of the playing field has caused their advantages to stagnate or dissappear in many ways. They want that advantage back.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)that is directed about the voting for certain candidates. That does nothing, I think, to bring us together as citizens. In many way, your OP argument is much like that of the gay community, in that, how can someone unfamiliar with the territory tell those who are and who are affected by it, what they should do and think? Better to sit back and listen and grow in knowledge. A thumbs up!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hard to explain somebody else's experience to them.
William769
(55,142 posts)Keep it going!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)surrealAmerican
(11,357 posts)... just like Black People don't like White People telling them what they feel - it isn't much better the other way around.
I don't know any white people who care about "the significance of whiteness". What I do know are white people frightened that they might be treated as unfairly as minorities have been treated in this country.
We are all our own best advocates, but we might just accomplish more by working together to make sure everybody is treated with respect and dignity.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)what is best for you. It is paternalistic to decide what is best for those you have privilege over. It is also rude and overbearing bordering on obnoxious and infantalizing when it is done. How can people work together if one side is deciding everything for the rest of us, even down to how we should feel about being controlled?
surrealAmerican
(11,357 posts)Each person (or group) can only really be an expert on their own perspective.
Working together is not "being controlled". It requires listening to everybody. At some level, though, we all need to decide what is right for all of us together. The points we can agree on are the basis for a shared culture.
mcar
(42,278 posts)I have not walked in your shoes, you have not walked in mine. Why can't we learn from each other?
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)then spend some time with us and learn to see things from our perspective. As a black man it makes me damn angry when someone tells me that I have no right to offer an opinion on what it means to be black but someone white can get right up in my face, tell me to sit down and shut up. Frustrating the hell out of me when they do that.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I don't see the decline of white power as a negative, I think it will benefit all of us to move towards a society that is equal.
It reminds me of a heated argument among some family members when one was insisting that Spanish not be spoken in government run establishments to force assimilation into a specific culture. One of my nephews said it wasn't a concern of his since he can learn to speak Spanish. A silence fell over the room as people pondered that perhaps we could all learn to speak Spanish. Some of the older people were horrified and predicted the end of the country as we know it and the younger folks thought it was an opportunity to grow as human beings to be able to honor many cultures rather than degrade them.
still_one
(92,060 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)still_one
(92,060 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)still_one
(92,060 posts)they are not part of
Response to still_one (Reply #97)
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Bucky
(53,930 posts)and the third fiction is we can have business or social trends that are separate to either group without affecting the other.
I agree that it's bad for anyone, white or black, to treat white norms as All American norms. the social reality is that our culture is shaped by both. And by all groups who add to the cultural blend that is America.
but I also recognize that there are perverse groups in the country who want black Americans to act more white. And there's a general lack of empathy particularly among whites. that doesn't mean everybody. It just means we all need to do a better job being Americans
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Look at Stacey Dash, she does not mind white people speaking for her or making all the decisions. She seems to feel that complaining implies weakness. But, yes, what affects one affects the other but... Sometimes what affects one negatively is a net positive for the other group.
Take wage stagnation, we blacks have not experienced the level of wage stagnation that white people complain about happening in the last forty years. We actually have experience growth while whites have flatlined. Keeping our wages low and keeping us out of many unions had the affect of allowing white males to be paid more. Without that boot on our neck, we have higher wages than 40 years ago comparatively. And without that boot on our neck white wages are flatlined. Not saying this is the only cause of wage stagnation, or division but it is one.
Therefore, the rhetoric of America sucking now compared to the days of FDR or Kennedy falls on deaf ears. White populism passes us by because we do not live the white experience. Which is one reason the appeals to us that we were voting against our best interests because we could go BACK to better times did not work. We are not nostalgic like our white counterparts. There is no better time to be a black person in america than this day. I think that white people just do not realize that.
JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)Keep your eyes on the green light. There is nothing of value behind us.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)susanr516
(1,425 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I want to listen, learn and support.
I figure if I am giving someone something I think they need vs what they tell me they (or what they truly) need .... I am "helping' myself and not the or anyone else.
.... but, I am a work in progress and I get it wrong sometimes
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think that's the best we can do.
MFM008
(19,803 posts)Daily. Chin up!
ismnotwasm
(41,956 posts)K&R
bravenak
(34,648 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,956 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)These desperate troglodytes (white) who think Trump is going to bring back the 50s or whatever they deem the time America was "great." They are pathetic.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Response to bravenak (Original post)
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Response to bravenak (Original post)
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bravenak
(34,648 posts)nolabear
(41,930 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)malaise
(268,664 posts)If we don't - that's fine too. I don't have to see things from anyone's perspective but mine.
Thanks to my very anti-colonial aunt, I've always been that way.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)Thank you so much for posting this
bravenak
(34,648 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)more than men do with women's issues. Each have their own hurdles and they are best to determine how to deal with them. But the black population has never had a close to fair shake in the history of this country. How sad.
Today I was heart broken when I heard the latest verdict in Freddie Gray's case. The list of injustices continues to grow and our leaders must find an effective way to address it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We have overcome many obstacles and I think we will figure out how to grow as a nation. We are immature. We are selfish. But we care, even the worst of us have something that we love. I think we have to start loving other people and checking ourselves. Learn from our mistakes and listen to each other. I see a lot of our issues as fear based. Fear of rejection. Fear of loss. Fear of change. Fear of the unknown. We have to find courage.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Sometimes the answers come when you least expect them. Hope and determination go hand in hand.
brer cat
(24,513 posts)A lot of those fears would disappear if we took the time to get to know one another. Fear of the unknown is powerful, and easily stoked.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Humans are quite clannish. We group up and probably have since the caves.
mia
(8,358 posts)Fear comes from the first instance that we realize that we are mortal. From then on we continually seek comfort from those who are like us and from others we have come to know and trust.
stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)cheapdate
(3,811 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)You should do what is in your best interest.
You should not tell others what is in their best interest.
whathehell
(29,026 posts)same space and have to share it, along with it's governance, resources, etc.
DustyJoe
(849 posts)What ever happened to the -i'll keep out of our face if you keep out of my face and if we do meet there's nothing wrong with civility- ? Has worked for me for over 60 years. There is nothing to be gained but distrust and disdain acting and speaking as you have any idea what another persons life and trials are when you have absuletely no idea.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You're again conflating "imply" and "infer"; whether consciously or not I cannot say...
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)One can't express inferences.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And I am so DAMN glad to see this.
K&R
bravenak
(34,648 posts)sheshe2
(83,635 posts)Thanks bravenak.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)I learned that while living in Alabama for many years. Thanks for this post, bravnak - I'm bookmarking it.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Excellent article and thread. Thank you for sharing it, bravenak!
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Taitertots
(7,745 posts)Oh yeah. You'd get your post hidden if you made the claims in the article. An article that claims sanders supporters are white supremacists and Hillary Clinton is centerd in white priviledge.
I will not ask you to be silent and its offensive for you to suggest that I should be silent based solely on my race.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Anyone can click the link to read the rest.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)You don't get to insult Hillary and claim Bernie supporters are white supremisists on DU. The TOS is pretty clear.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have no idea where you got that.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)Did you read the whole article?
"Bernie Sanders supporters engage in behavior rooted in white supremacy when black folks do not vote the way they would prefer, and Hillary Clintons dismissal of BLM protesters, her record in Haiti and her support for the death penalty show that she is firmly centered in white privilege."
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was not bashing, just stating the facts of the nation we live in and the history we live with.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)Bernie supporters as white supremacists. Or insulting Hillary Clinton as being centered in white Priviledge (white racism/discrimination).
Go bashing democratic candidates and their supporters somewhere else.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)can't understand that point. Too hurt by truth that strikes home. Keep up your good work. Critiques and all.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)I'm white. I recognize that the problem many white people have, is that they see words like "white supremacy" and they react immediately, and negatively, without reading deeper into it what is being said.
It is absolutely true that there were many Bernie Sanders supporters who were upset that Bernie was not gaining more traction with black voters. Many tried to explain to black voters why Bernie was in their best interest. Think about that. Do you not see how that is demeaning and ridiculous?
Hillary herself admitted that she has benefited from white privilege and it's something that all white people need to recognize and take a deeper look at.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)Calling Bernie supporters white supremacists is offensive.
I'll never stop speaking my mind to other people just because of the color of their skin. It's far more demeaning and offensive to suggest that white people shouldn't try to convince black people of the merits of their favored candidates. Just like it would be offensive if white people told black people that they don't get to tell white people about the merits of their favored candidate.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)And of course you should talk to all people about the merits of your favored candidate.
But what shouldn't happen, yet sadly did, it to suggest that black voters who did not prefer Bernie Sanders were ignorant to their own best interests. One supporter went so far as to suggest that black voters who did not prefer Sanders, have Stockholm syndrome.
That was, at best, extremely arrogant and tone deaf.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Sadly though, these incidents did happen.
Do you understand why it was offensive though? Maybe the article in the OP will make more sense to you if you can at least get that.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)I don't think that's a good generalization to make.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)since absolutely no one is being racist against white people.
Don't tell black people what is in their best interest.
Why is that so hard to understand? You have not walked in their shoes, you do not face their battles, and you most likely do not know what is in their best interest. Black people, just like white people, can make up their own minds. They are not monolithic. The fact that many white people seem to be ignorant of this is not racist, it's just ignorance.
Ligyron
(7,615 posts)whereas most people knew little of Sanders and his long record of support for civil rights. People just didn't know him and others were trying to err, educate?
I guess a lot of that came off as "whitesplainin'".
what some people were trying to point out was the Clinton's get tough on crime legislation did more to hurt black folks than almost anything since Jim Crow uo to the time when the a big part of the voting rights act got torpedoed by the Supremes.
Also, Bernie probably had a bad day and was in no mood when the Black Lives Matter folks showed up so that didn't help either.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bernie voted in favor of that same legislation. Once we knew that, it was a wash. We go with what we know.
Ligyron
(7,615 posts)Gothmog
(144,884 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Igel
(35,270 posts)Redux.
That is missing the american racial dynamic and it's not really about self reliance. More along the lines of self discovery.
Orrex
(63,169 posts)Let me know what I can do to help, and otherwise I'll try to keep out of the way.
k/r
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Orrex
(63,169 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)"When it comes to what's best for White People, it's time for Black People to mind their business"
That would be an extremely racist thing for someone to say, yes or no?
Democat
(11,617 posts)You can criticize others, but others aren't allowed to criticize you.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)Also recced this thread.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Unlike many others here.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Flipping those would take everything out of historical context.
Whites had all the power, blacks had none. There is no equivalency here. Let us move right along.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)If only race X treated race Y differently...
That's racism. You're blaming a race comprised of many individuals for the actions and beliefs of some.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The great difference in the historical experience:
All racism isn't equal. The current definition of racism includes the concept of power, which black Americans never had.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)None of my ancestors owned plantations, or were even very wealthy. One grandfather was an officer in the Navy in WW II, but that's about it for my "entitlement" due to my melatonin. I come from a family of farmers and social workers and teachers, who worked hard for their living, and I'm actually rather offended by your post.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)And me too, for that matter.
You have white privilege, as do I.
The concept of white privilege is this: if a white person, and a black person, are in identical economic situations, the white person has an advantage, based on our historical racial history.
If you don't think this is true, I can drops of lot of explanation on you.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)betsuni
(25,368 posts)Louis CK: "I''m a white man, how many advantages can one person have? You can't even hurt my feeling. What can you really call a white man? 'Hey, cracker.' 'Uh, ruined my day. ... Bringing me back to owning land and people, what a drag.'"
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Many white people are indeed trying to tell black people how they should act, how they should vote, how they should speak, etc.
Meanwhile, black people are not telling me or other white people any of these things.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)It appears that the irony is lost on Some People.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)It's telling you, to stop telling them, what is good for them.
It was summarized perfectly in the last line
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)nt
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Why do you think it's any of your business to tell black people what is best for them?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)Why do you think it's your business to tell black people what is best for them?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Why do you think it's your business to tell white people what is best for them to do or say?
People share opinions about things with each other. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't. Posts like the OP are trying to stifle discussion, plain and simple.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)It's asking them to stop telling black people what is best for them.
So once again, why do you think it's your business to tell black people what is best for them? Because that is what you are arguing. You seem to think you should be allowed to do so. You don't see how that is paternalistic?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)for people and our world on a variety of subjects, from global warming to music to economics, etc. That's what discussion forums are for, right?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)and listening to other opinions is also important.
But no adult should be telling any other adult what is best for them. That would be paternalistic.
That was the whole point of the article. Stop telling black people what is best for them. Somehow you found that offensive.
Response to KMOD (Reply #149)
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KMOD
(7,906 posts)to open their minds and eyes.
Again, nobody ever said Bernie Sanders was racist. But yes, he, Hillary and many white people are indeed tone deaf to racial issues.
Look at how many people to offense to this article, without thinking about what it was saying. The saw the words "white people", freaked out and stopped reading.
No she hasn't.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,938 posts)Bullying needs to stop.
Bullying is against the DU Terms of Service.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Harriet Beecher Stowe had just "minded their own business"?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)still missing the main point.
Don't tell black people what is best for them.
Is this really that hard?
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)You believe this is "race baiting". I am asking you to read it, without becoming defensive over seeing the words "white people", and then jumping to a conclusion that the author is calling people racist, and try to see it for what it really is. All the author was suggesting was that white people should stop telling black people what is in their best interest. And I agree with that whole heartedly.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)"Latino people" should behave thusly, it'd be obviously racist, right? That you fail to see that here says a lot.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Again, you are focusing on brief parts. Clearly you are offended by the "mind your own business" line.
But why? Why do you feel it would be your business to tell black people what is in their best interest?
It addresses "white people" because it is "white people" who have been telling black people what is in their best interest.
Were you around last winter when Bernie Sanders supporters were tracking down black people on twitter, and facebook, and explaining to them how Bernie was best for them? It was bizarre to say the least.
Did you even read the article in its entirety?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)Seriously.
pnwmom
(108,954 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I like a good back and forth.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)People (white and.black) will tell other people (white and black)what to do, both on a individual and group basis, despite idiotic articles and groveling idiots say.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)aikoaiko
(34,161 posts)I struggle with trying to engage in discussion versus going over the line.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)...
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)The author's own example required that he find out through asking questions where the boundary was. So it will be with cultural issues. And given we live in a highly segregated society, those questions will continue because there is real ignorance bred by lack of contact. Do you blame the child for not knowing better? Does telling a child to shut up do anything? And it certainly isn't just an issue between blacks and whites. Cultural ignorance runs wide and deep, and the author's call for people to "shut up" doesn't seem like it will work. Only through asking questions do people figure stuff out.
Also, I don't think the author understands whiteness right now. Whiteness isn't becoming less significant, it's the exact opposite. Whiteness is becoming ever more significant, especially to people like Trump's supporters.
The author's tone and position seems to only reinforce people who feel racial separation and greater affinity for white identity are the way to go. Don't ask questions or interact at all with other races, because it's impossible to be a part of any conversation, and asking questions is wrong.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)betsuni
(25,368 posts)Good one!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... their standard bearer.
The left is what I'm ... not pleased with... a lot more of them than I thought... don't want to have this discussion.
I'm seeing the responses on your OP... too many reflexive retorts of non support.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)... and then act indignant when called out on it.
People need to become more integrated into society and quit trying to self segregate.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)if it was applied to the many white people who just don't get it.
Ironic, huh?
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)and not be called out on it. That is the point; self determination and all that.
As far as integration into society, also not sure into whose society people should "become" integrated. America is vast and diverse and respecting our differences is a good place to unite.
Some Americans:
?1454612318
TipTok
(2,474 posts)In short, the same way that I treat everyone.
If I think you are doing something wrong, I reserve the right to speak my mind. You have the right to ignore it.
All those folks you had pictures of are open to the same standards and have the same ability to speak their mind with no expectation that they are exempt from criticism.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)When the OP says, "when it comes to what is best for black people, white people should mind their business", for you:
"that sounds like an attempt for them to have carte blanche to [behave] outside of acceptable social norms... and then act indignant when called out on it".
I don't see where that is implied by the OP or the article at all. I see people not wanting their culture to be defined by someone else's or a white version of "norm". Expecting everyone to integrate or wholesale assimilate into a white, christian, heterosexual, northern European, middle class average is not just unreasonable, it ruins what makes our country interesting and exceptional.We are not a homogenous country and attempts to make everyone conform to a standard defined by some is unfair.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)A good read.
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Please consider how offensive it is to invoke white supremacy in the context of a man who lost family in the Holocaust.
I'm not saying you did this on purpose, but please be aware of how this can be perceived.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Isnt it great that some have figured out a creative way to continue to bash Bernie and his supporters? Isnt it though?
But its ok. Upthread th OP explains its simply a "critique".
KMOD
(7,906 posts)What is offensive, is that their are still too many white people who want to tell black people what is in their best interest. And that is what the author is saying.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)Anyone with half a brain knows that's exactly why the OP posted the article.
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)has to go. We need economic empowerment and you can't get that in the system as it stands which is why you may see black people begin to split their vote between dems and republicans. We're clearly being taken for granted while other groups are getting catered to.
betsuni
(25,368 posts)lostnfound
(16,161 posts)Some women don't support Trump because he is sexist, some don't support Trump because he is racist, some don't support him because he is both. Not sure what that says about racism in white women.
President Obama rocks. Wish we could keep him for another 8 years. In spite of his support for neoliberalism / TPP, his grace, intelligence, dignity, wisdom, grounded was, and sense of history make me proud and happy to have voted for him three times.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)the opinions of white people, don't listen. Isn't that what you're saying, "Just mind your own business?" It goes both ways, kind of like constructive communication. You see, if you tell some poor white man, who lives from hand to mouth, who can't feed his family or get a job, that he's part of a system of privilege, he's going to laugh at you. When he replies that you're better off than he is, and you tell him that's none of his business, he will take offense. Since he is most likely poorly educated and probably not too bright, he's going to be all ears when someone who is privileged says that what you want is to horn in on the crumbs that fall from his master's table. When you tell progressive whites, especially those who have fought for civil rights most of lives, that they are just a bunch of privileged racist, they might just tell you to shove it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This nation was built on blacks being subjugated and whites being free and Natives being treated like shit. This nation was not built on black supermacy. You are talking hurt feelings, I am talking paternalism and oppression.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)The "all whites benefit from their whiteness" narrative doesn't hold water anymore than "all Jews are rich." Nor, does an appeal to history make either of these sweeping generalizations true.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This nation was built on White supremacy not Jewish Supremacy. They are still an oppressed minority in many ways. I can make a sweeping generalization because the laws were made to benefit white's and oppress everyone else since the inception of this nation. Jim Crow affected blacks for decades, and Jews were also subject to many cruelties and in places were subjected to Jim Crow right along with us.
This idea that Jews have all the money is nonsense and I have no clue where you came up with that idea.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)to see whites who are not now and never have been privileged, come on down to rural Appalachia. I'll show you some hollers full of poor whites that will make you think inner cities look like country clubs. The canard about the rich Jew is centuries old. It's no idea of mine. Can't believe you never heard it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Not all privilege relates to money. And I have no idea why I should know about every racist trope. It would take a lifetime to learn them all.
Btw, my grandad was from there. Compared to the blacks, I can tell you that blacks and browns living there were treated like shit by those poor whites who you say have no privilege over them. Jim Crow existed even there, and it was their privilege to use Jim Crow against their fellow poverty stricked citizens of color.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)or 1956. The population I told you about lives in an area that is 99% white and has been since the first settlers stole the land from the Indians. Most of them would think Jim Crow is someone's name. They didn't own slaves, didn't fight for the Confederacy. Their land was stolen by coal companies at the turn of the century and they worked the coal mines that were once on their land to keep from starving. When it became unbearable, they struck. When the coal companies brought in blacks and Eastern Europeans to break the strike, they united with them and formed one of the first integrated labor unions in America. When the companies sent in gun thugs and the national guard to suppress them, they fought the biggest battle on American soil since the Civil War. Most of them never saw a privileged day in their lives and neither have a lot of their descendants right up to today.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)to allow them full access and ownership.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)since any people migrated to a place not already occupied by others. Conquest is not a behavior peculiar to white people. Also, the inhabitants were not removed as in the passive voice. The settlers drove them out themselves and intermarried with the rest. What any of that has to do with white privilege escapes me.
I am perfectly aware that a white power structure rules this country. It always has, and it has been very hard on POC. That needs to change. My objection is in the indefensible argument that by definition the term white privilege includes all whites. I hear that a lot. That kind of thinking is not only unsound and untrue but is also intellectually lazy and divisive. It does not serve to move this multi-racial and ethnic society a place where there is finally liberty and justice for all.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I am discussing american issues not Anthropology.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)to make way for their conquerors. In America, the conquered people were non-whites. When the Saxons invaded Britain, both groups were white. That did not stop the Saxons from enslaving, absorbing or driving out the native Britons.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)the dark folks. And it was done based simply on the color of their skin. No need for anybody to defend the evil that we did as a nation to people of color. We never did right the wrongs and so yes, those white are racially privileged in that they were the ones that the others were oppressed to benefit. Slavery did not benefit blacks very much in this nation. Manifest Destiny did not benefit Native Americans. Jim Crow did not benefit colored people or Jews. Redlining did not benefit anybody but Whites. Segregation only benefitted whites. Literacy tests did not benefit blacks. The entire system of this nation was designed to benefit whites, even today the way food stamps and other services are distributed benefit rurla areas more in many places, because rural areas are white areas. The presense of poverty among some segments of white people does not mean that white skin privilege does not exist. It does. Just like the presence of wealthy blacks does not mean black poverty is over.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)did it for the land and resources. They didn't come thousands of dangerous miles just to take from POC becasue they were POC. That is indefensible factually. I would very much like for you to provide some evidence to support your allegation that the social services network is biased in favor of poor, rural whites, unless you mean that because most poor people are white that somehow that biases the system in their favor. Indentured servitude wasn't created to benefit poor whites, neither was slavery or any of the other evils you mention. Literacy and aptitude tests were used extensively to keep Eastern Europeans from immigrating to the US as well as keeping blacks from voting. I cannot really grasp your insistence that being dirt poor means you're oppressed if you're black and privileged if your white. Have a nice day. It has been an interesting discussion.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They straight up sailed to Africa to catch my ancestors and force them into slavery because they wanted the workers and decided we were not actual humans because of the color of our skin. Other dark folks were also dehumanized. I have no idea why you think they did not travel thousands of miles to oppress dark people when we had the transatlantic slave trade.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)of Europeans who came to North America.a couldn't have cared less about POC. They came for the land and to get the hell out of Europe where most of them starved most of the time. Most were poor. Nearly half were indentured and 4 out of 10 didn't survive the experience. Those who did moved west. They had little other choice. When the landed aristocracy determined it was cheaper to use slaves, they switched to Africans and participated in the abomination of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade that had already been in existence of more than a century. It was the rich who exploited both black and white then just like now. There is no monolithic racial conspiracy of poor but privileged whites to oppress POC and never has been. That's just another variant on the divide and conquer thinking that's been used to pit poor whites against poor blacks since the day the first slave ship arrived in 1607 and began replacing indentured servitude.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/5b.asp
bravenak
(34,648 posts)dark people who already lived here by force and extermination and forcible removal. It does not change the fact that the institutional racism built into this nation caused others to be oppressed so that they could succed and own that land that was not ever theirs to begin with. It does not change the fact that the status they hold above us is based in this history of white supremacy.
They were able by virtue of the color of their skin to become 'americans' and none of the mechanisms of racial oppression were used AGAINST THEM. When everyone else is oppressed by vortue of the color of their skin except for one group, they are PRIVILEGED not to suffer ANY racial oppression as the rest of us AMERICANS have Experienced.
adigal
(7,581 posts)that black people don't have, they are certainly not "advantaged." They can't feed their kids when food stamps run out, they can't afford oil with 1/2 the winter to go.
And as a white woman to be told to shut up about civil rights - no, I won't. A lot of the wealthier rural whites in the tourist area where I work are racist as hell and I continually call them out on it. I can do that. When the one black student in my school district tries to call them out, he is treated like shit. I can do things BECAUSE of my white person privilege, which I think is terrible in and of itself, that this young man can't do. So I do it, because I feel that if I have an unfair privilege, it is my moral obligation to use it in a way that is helpful, and not harmful.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just to allow others to speak and think for themselves without the oppressive interference. The role you describe is supportive not oppressive. Helping to maginify the voices of the marginalized is what we ask people to do. So, it seems as if you are already helping in your own way, and that is appreciated. It is not telling us what's best for us, What you describe.
adigal
(7,581 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)elljay
(1,178 posts)about being able to walk down the street without being arrested. That is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. Calling a poor white person privileged because they get the rights that EVERYONE should have is wrong and offensive. It may feel good for some to flip the paradigm and say that instead of black people being discriminated against, white people are privileged, but it is not necessarily true.
egduj
(805 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)"The time has come for white folks, ally or not, to understand that some of the conversations happening in the black community, some of the music coming out of the black community and the behavior of black folks are simply not your concern."
"The only way we can 'work together' it is let me decide what's best for me and you to decide
what is best for you."
LOVE that!!
kiva
(4,373 posts)Because I'm thinking that might limit the number of posts about White Tears, White Privilege, White culture and a lot of other posts that have been the staple of DU for several years.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Has nothing to do with this at all. That is not blacks telling you what to do, it is people laughing at how priviliged others acts. Nothing to do with this op.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)If you want us to retreat into our "progressive circles" and not take an interest, we could do that.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)TRUTH with a capital BLM. +1000 Glad to see you.
runaway hero
(835 posts)This should apply to black Bernie Supporters and Black Trumpies (there are some, I'll tell ya.)