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snot

(10,515 posts)
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:52 AM Jun 2016

Brexit, Sanders, Trump: Votes Against Austerity

and excessive concentrations of power at a federal level, to the detriment of the 99%?

Governmental policies by neoliberals et al. world-wide have enriched the 1%, to no good end, while the rest of us suffer.

The 1%-owned media spin has worked hard to tie Brexit, the Sanders revolution, and anything else the 1% finds inconvenient to racism. Even on NPR, the slant all day long was how no one wants Brexit; not one voice mentioned any possible contrary view, other than one xenophobe who'd doubtless vote for Trump were he in the US. NO discussion of the more or less recent experiences of Ireland and Greece v. Iceland.

But as a non-"mainstream" commentator has put it:

The ruling class across Europe has been dealt a massive blow by the vote of the UK to leave the European Union.

This was a working class revolt against the establishment. . . . Jeremy Corbyn and the trade union movement should demand a general election is held immediately, and take up the frustrations felt by ordinary people at insecure work, zero hour contracts, job losses, cuts and austerity. Corbyn should cut across the racism of the Tories and UKIP by standing on socialist policies and renationalising rail, electricity, gas, post and other key industries.

https://coventrysocialists.com/2016/...at-referendum/

We're all part of a larger system, but subsystems with semi-autonomy may be another kind of helpful check-and-balance. There needs to be a degree of local flexibility and accountability. Once any organization (a corporation, nation, union, etc.) becomes too large, the top and bottom of the decisional trees lose contact; there's less transparency and accountability and, as Assange might put it, the organization's computational I.Q. is degraded. And the organization becomes more susceptible to hijacking by sociopaths.

C.f. Greece, Iceland, et al.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Brexit, Sanders, Trump: Votes Against Austerity (Original Post) snot Jun 2016 OP
? how come Fox news and the Republicans love it too OKNancy Jun 2016 #1
Tom Cotton(R-nutcase) happy OKNancy Jun 2016 #3
Sanders and Corbyn opposed Brexit. Trump and Farage think it is a 'great thing'. pampango Jun 2016 #2
The 1%, partly via their control over the EU, have imposed severe austerity, snot Jun 2016 #5
Oh I think the 1% will be quite happy with this result. Sanders and Corbyn understand this. pampango Jun 2016 #7
I think you are 100%.... sendero Jun 2016 #23
Perhaps. But I trust Sanders and Corbyn more than I do Trump and Farage. n/t pampango Jun 2016 #24
People have had it RelativelyJones Jun 2016 #4
True.... but impossible for many on this on this site to accept: Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #13
"The Left on both sides of the Atlantic has to look hard at this." And become more like the right? pampango Jun 2016 #14
It is not about becoming more right wing at all RelativelyJones Jun 2016 #18
And you think that UKIP and the far-right will bring about "more control over one's economic future" pampango Jun 2016 #25
Obviously not RelativelyJones Jun 2016 #29
Brexit is about not letting brown foreigners in. sufrommich Jun 2016 #6
"Make the UK white again". n/t pampango Jun 2016 #8
And deporting the ones that are already in, legally. joshcryer Jun 2016 #10
There ya' go. nt Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #15
That is not really true RelativelyJones Jun 2016 #17
Please don't tie Sanders to Brexit. joshcryer Jun 2016 #9
Particularly since he was against it, to his credit. Metric System Jun 2016 #20
Of course he was against it. joshcryer Jun 2016 #21
The EU also enforced lots of worker protection regulations... Helen Borg Jun 2016 #11
They're framing it as a working class/99% vote .. ananda Jun 2016 #12
Disagree. I've heard not one commentator discuss the economics; it's been all about xenophobia. snot Jun 2016 #16
God forbid.. sendero Jun 2016 #19
But that's how Democracy works -by electing representatives who make the decisions. randome Jun 2016 #26
Because that's what it was. joshcryer Jun 2016 #22
Well, all that, and xenophobia and racism, actually. HERVEPA Jun 2016 #27
ummmm Cryptoad Jun 2016 #28

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
1. ? how come Fox news and the Republicans love it too
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:54 AM
Jun 2016

It's anti-immigrant is one reason. Any other reasons?

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
3. Tom Cotton(R-nutcase) happy
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:05 AM
Jun 2016

Tom Cotton ?@TomCottonAR 6m6 minutes ago
The British people exercised their sovereign right of self-government to leave EU. The U.S. stands with them, now more than ever.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
2. Sanders and Corbyn opposed Brexit. Trump and Farage think it is a 'great thing'.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:04 AM
Jun 2016

Not sure what the point is here.

snot

(10,515 posts)
5. The 1%, partly via their control over the EU, have imposed severe austerity,
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:17 AM
Jun 2016

with disastrous consequences to everyone except the 1%; among other things.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
7. Oh I think the 1% will be quite happy with this result. Sanders and Corbyn understand this.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:21 AM
Jun 2016

Trump and Farage do not.

RelativelyJones

(898 posts)
4. People have had it
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:15 AM
Jun 2016

People have had it with huge "meta" bureaucracies that don't obviously make their lives better. And it must be obvious. People outside of London did not see the upside of EU membership. The Left on both sides of the Atlantic has to look hard at this. It is pure idiocy, and intellectually lazy, to say it is all about racism. It isn't (even if loons like Farage might make you think so).

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
13. True.... but impossible for many on this on this site to accept:
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:41 AM
Jun 2016

>>>>It is pure idiocy, and intellectually lazy, to say it is all about racism.>>>>>

There's an emotional over-investment in the R word that crowds out the capacity for critical thinking.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
14. "The Left on both sides of the Atlantic has to look hard at this." And become more like the right?
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:45 AM
Jun 2016

Isn't that called "triangulation" when we don't like it? "Smart politics" when we do like it?

RelativelyJones

(898 posts)
18. It is not about becoming more right wing at all
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:51 AM
Jun 2016

The desire to have more control over one's economic future is only owned by the right-wing if we allow it.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
25. And you think that UKIP and the far-right will bring about "more control over one's economic future"
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:36 AM
Jun 2016

Trump hopes that many Americans agree with you in November.

RelativelyJones

(898 posts)
29. Obviously not
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:59 AM
Jun 2016

But if we let UKIP and Trump frame the economic argument against globalization then we have failed. This is still a battlefield.

RelativelyJones

(898 posts)
17. That is not really true
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:49 AM
Jun 2016

The UK has a very large population from SE Asia and the West Indies. And, for the most part, an integrated one.

Helen Borg

(3,963 posts)
11. The EU also enforced lots of worker protection regulations...
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:37 AM
Jun 2016

The view that the EU is bad workers is oversimplistic and wrong.
On a larger scale, there are issues that need to be tackled by a supranational entity. Imagine the US without the Federal government, for example.

ananda

(28,854 posts)
12. They're framing it as a working class/99% vote ..
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:38 AM
Jun 2016

.. but the far right anti-immigrant, anti-multicultural groups
were pushing for leave.

That is what worries me the most.

I don't see how any of this has a good outcome.

snot

(10,515 posts)
16. Disagree. I've heard not one commentator discuss the economics; it's been all about xenophobia.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:48 AM
Jun 2016

I.e., the only "framing" has been in terms of xenophobia.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
19. God forbid..
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 06:55 AM
Jun 2016

.. the co-opted media tell you the truth, EVER.

They're not going to start now. This was obviously SOME about immigration but like most issues it was mostly about "it's the economy , stupid".

And being tired of tossing Democracy out the window in favor of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
26. But that's how Democracy works -by electing representatives who make the decisions.
Fri Jun 24, 2016, 07:39 AM
Jun 2016

Putting something this complex up to a vote was an immense blunder. People tend to vote for their own interests, without seeing the larger picture.

And now "the economy, stupid" is going to be worse for some time to come. So how does Brexit make things better? It doesn't.

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