First U.S. State Flips NRA The Bird, Takes Drastic Step On Gun Control

[babylonsister]

http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/24/just-in-first-u-s-state-flips-nra-the-bird-takes-drastic-step-on-gun-control-details/


JUST IN: First U.S. State Flips NRA The Bird, Takes Drastic Step On Gun Control (DETAILS)
By Eric -
June 24, 2016


Despite efforts by House and Senate Democrats, Congress has made no progress when it comes to gun control. However, one of the benefits of our system of government is that state and local leaders can take action when the federal government does not. Earlier, this week, Hawaii passed three new laws regulating the sale of firearms and ammunition.

The first is Act 108, which gives law enforcement agencies the power to enroll people who purchase firearms or register firearms into an FBI criminal database. The database will allow the FBI to alert Hawaii law enforcement whenever the owner of a gun is arrested anywhere in the country. Hawaii is the first state to make use of this database in such a way. The governor’s office has stated that this law will help the authorities determine “whether the firearm owner may continue to legally possess and own firearms.”

In a press release, Governor David Ige stated that the law would help keep Hawaiians and tourists safe.

‘This is about our community’s safety and responsible gun ownership. This system will better enable our law enforcement agencies to ensure the security of all Hawaii residents and visitors to our islands.

This bill has undergone a rigorous legal review process by our Attorney General’s office and we have determined that it is our responsibility to approve this measure for the sake of our children and families.’

In addition to Act 108, Ige also signed House Bill 625 into law. The new law prohibits anyone who has been convicted of stalking or sexual assault from purchasing firearms. The law was introduced by Democrat Charles Lee, who said that domestic violence has been linked to gun crime. Sadly, violence against women is still a major problem in the United States, but it’s good to see one state taking action to address part of the problem.

The NRA and Hawaii Rifle Association have both come out in opposition to these bills. Fortunately for the people of Hawaii, it appears that the gun lobby doesn’t have quite the influence there that it does on the national stage. After weeks of watching the Republicans do nothing on the issue of gun control, it’s rather refreshing to see someone stand up to the gun lobby.

The third law seeks to address the link between mental illness and gun violence. The law states that those who have been disqualified from owning a gun due to mental disorder must turn guns over to local law enforcement. According to the statute, the new law:

‘Requires firearms owners who have been disqualified from owning a firearm and ammunition due to a diagnosis of significant behavioral, emotional, or mental disorder, or due to emergency or involuntary hospitalization to a psychiatric facility, to immediately surrender their firearms and ammunition to the Chief of Police.’

It’s great to see a state take a serious look at gun violence in this country and finally do something to address it. We can only hope that the federal government will eventually do the right thing and take a look at gun control legislation as well.

[Faux pas]

1. K N R-ed

[mwrguy]

2. Good!

Gun owners should be under a high level of scrutiny.

[Press Virginia]

3. significant behavioral, emotional, or mental disorder,

Does this include Depression and Bi Polar disorders that are controlled by medications?

[orwell]

4. I guess this means...

...Trump can't own a gun in Hawaii.

[Press Virginia]

7. The rich hire security

but the bill doesn't spell out the emotional and behavioral disorders.

adhd is a behavioral disorder
bi polar anxiety and depression are both emotional

Many Americans take medications to control it but it isn't a cure and they have to be constantly monitored by a doctor. Many are in therapy.
There's already a database that tracks prescriptions for people, so it wouldn't be difficult for the state to compile a list of these people and then use it to deny gun purchases

[Sancho]

9. Hopefully yes!!!

You really don't need a "diagnosis" to keep potentially dangerous people from easy access to guns. If you fail a vision test, then the DMV does not be an optometrist to send you to one for clearance and correction.

If you report to taking medications, then you should have a report from a professional that you are not a danger before having access to guns!! That would prevent many, many deaths. If you are OK and don't get your gun while participating in the process - too bad if it prevents the dangerous from killing themselves or others!

Same thing with a self-report application, reference from an agency or school, report from a family member, etc. If there's a suspicion, then get cleared BEFORE you get the gun.

Simple.

[Press Virginia]

14. Since you don't have a right to drive a car, the state can impose a vision standard

I have a right to privacy, especially, when it comes in a voluntary relation with my doctor and treatment of my condition.

If I were involuntarily committed or hospitalized because of my illness, that's one thing, but I shouldn't have to disclose a medical condition that is being successfully managed.

This might lead to people stopping medications or not seeking help at all

[Marengo]

16. Anyone who takes psychoactive medication should be presumed dangerous?

[Press Virginia]

17. Evidently

maybe we should wear some sort of marking so that people are aware we're dangerous

[Marengo]

19. Perhaps a patch in the shape of a capsule on the clothing, with some sort of code...

Identifying the dangerous disorder.

[Press Virginia]

20. And maybe special license plates along with a state registration system

so kids know to stay off my lawn and people get out of my way on the roads

[Sophiegirl]

25. I guess you aren't aware...

...that caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol fall under the umbrella definition of psychotropic drugs.

[Marengo]

44. And I guess you can pretend to not understand my point.

[tblue37]

27. Caffeine is an addictive psychoactive drug, as is nicotine. nt

[Grins]

28. You flipped the question!

You flipped the question missing the point.

The question is "Should those who take psychoactive medications (medically or not) be allowed guns?"

And the answer is no. Psychoactive drugs are consciousnesses altering medications that can produce a profound or significant effect on mental processes, and anyone who has family members suffering from clinical depression, anxiety, personality disorders, schizophrenia or bipolar disorders - that's a big deal. The threat of suicide for them is high as is that threat being turned on others.

[Press Virginia]

33. So, when people are stigmatized and denied rights because of their controlled

medical condition, how many will stop taking their meds or not seek help at all?

I'm bi-polar. My condition is controlled, meds monitored and I check in with a therapist every couple of months. I've always owned guns...never attempted suicide, never threatened to shoot anyone and never fired my guns anywhere but at a shooting range. If my illness were included under this law, I would lose a right based on nothing more than the government, not my doctor, determining I am a threat. And they don't even have to talk to me to make that determination.

[stone space]

46. There is no "right" to a gun. Guns don't have "rights". (nt)

[Press Virginia]

52. Ummm you should look up the use of the word "to"

[Sanity Claws]

51. Stigmatized?

How is not possessing a firearm stigmatizing? Whether a person applied for a firearms license and was denied is not public record.
People with limited vision or who suffer epilepsy are not allowed to drive. Would you consider that stigmatizing?

[Marengo]

45. In other words, you want them presumed dangerous.

[NutmegYankee]

29. No.

The law has a provision for treatment: unless the person has been medically documented to be no longer adversely affected by the addiction, abuse, dependence, mental disease, disorder, or defect.

Also, the guns are not taken permanently - the police are required to store them until the person either meets the medical clause above, transfers them to someone else, or sells them to a gun dealer.

[Press Virginia]

32. But what disorders or diseases are they talking about

Schizophrenia would be obvious as would autism or forms of mental retardation.

But what about anxiety, depression and bi-polar disorders?

[NutmegYankee]

34. It's undefined.

It's probably left up to a psychiatrist to make the call. Most disorders in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder would likely not be considered significant. It's probably an area that will be decided by courts one day.

The law seems to skirt the edge of what is Constitutional, but does have a clear way to get the guns back when a medical professional issues you documentation and hence due process. I suspect the definition of "significant" might be held as unconstitutionally vague but the basic concept of handing guns to police for storage until treated and cleared by a doctor would be upheld as a compelling government interest justifying the infringement.

[YOHABLO]

49. You can't hold a psychiatrist responsible for a mass shooting.

[Thinkingabout]

5. This needs to start somewhere, 80% of Americans wants sensible gun laws, it

Should not be hard for Congressional members to tell NRA they don't care how much money the NRA contributes, 80% voting against them will cause them to lose elections.

[Press Virginia]

8. Yeah. We saw how that turned out in 2014 after they refused to act

following Sandy Hook

[Stallion]

6. Recent 9th Circuit Court of Appeal Decision Gave Hawaii Room to Run with This

without much fear of it being overturned.

[Straw Man]

10. Umm ...

It’s great to see a state take a serious look at gun violence in this country and finally do something to address it. We can only hope that the federal government will eventually do the right thing and take a look at gun control legislation as well.

They're mostly duplicating existing federal legislation -- except for the enrollment in the database, which essentially streamlines the NICS process, but does so at the expense of further empowerment of government tracking of the populace.

Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving

A delay response from the NICS Section indicates the subject of the background check has been matched with either a state or federal potentially prohibiting record containing a similar name and/or similar descriptive features (name, sex, race, date of birth, state of residence, social security number, height, weight, or place of birth). The federally prohibiting criteria are as follows:

A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.
Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.
An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.
A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial.
A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.
A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.
A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.
The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.
A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

-- https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet

[ProudProgressiveNow]

11. +1000 nt

[Wounded Bear]

12. Nice to see...

and as an island, they might just be able to enforce it meaningfully.

Mainland states can pass the laws, but if their neighbor state is on the other side of the issue, there will be massive loopholes in what they do. It's what is happening now. Local laws don't mean much when basically unregulated purchases are only hours away.

I applaud Hawai'i and hope this works out, but we still need national action IMHO.

[white_wolf]

15. I didn't mention it in the article, but

I had similar thoughts. I do think state and local action is a good thing, but national action is really needed on an issue like this. Maybe if several connecting states voted for similar measures, local action could have more of an impact. I really haven't studied the issue and I can't think of any similar examples to draw from. I'm sure they're out there though.

[Wounded Bear]

24. Here's an article that kind of portrays that problem...

in what we think of as relatively progressive states (although, technically VT is not THAT liberal ).

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18168/guns-heroin-vermont-new-york

Pssst. Want an unregistered semi-automatic handgun, some heroin and a way to make a 1,400 percent profit?

First, the gun. In Vermont, you can legally buy it through a “private” sale at a gun show, yard sale, online or from a dealer. Doesn’t matter if you’re a convicted murderer with a history of mental illness and a restraining order for domestic abuse. Anyone 16 or older with $600 can, for example, go to Armslist.com and arrange with a “private party” in Arlington, Vt., to pick up a “Zastava M92 PV 7.62 x 39 cal. semi auto pistol that has a 10 inch barrel, comes with 2 each 30 round clips.” The Serbian assault weapon is, the ad notes, the “very cool … pistol version of the AK-47.”

Then, if you are willing to break the law, you can drive the weapon to New York, where semi-automatic handguns are banned, and sell it for triple the Vermont price. You can invest the $1,800 in heroin. Back in Vermont, where heroin is in relatively short supply, you can resell it for five times the New York cost and garner $9,000—a quick 1,400 percent profit.

[beevul]

37. No.

First, the gun. In Vermont, you can legally buy it through a “private” sale at a gun show, yard sale, online or from a dealer. Doesn’t matter if you’re a convicted murderer with a history of mental illness and a restraining order for domestic abuse.

False. Remove the word 'legal' and its closer to true.

[Indydem]

47. And that's the whole point.

This whole scenario is based on someone who has no regard for the law. They have committed multiple felonies in this hypothetical. Too many people think that if there were just one more law it would stop terrible things from happening.

[white_wolf]

13. I don't normally do stuff like this, but I wrote this one

So I hope you all enjoyed it. I was glad to see the news even if I'm frustrated with D.C.'s lack of progress on the issue.

[pinboy3niner]

18. Nice article, white_wolf!

[babylonsister]

36. Thank you! nt

[forest444]

21. I hope President Obama is taking notes.

Let'em say you're "trampling over the Constitution" Mr. President! They constantly do anyway, after all.

[Initech]

22. Fuck. The. NRA.

And this is great news!

[Grins]

23. Good, but it could go a bit further.

House Bill 625 says no guns to those convicted of stalking or sexual assault.

The third law said "that those who have been disqualified from owning a gun due to mental disorder must turn guns over to local law enforcement".

That's really good but it should also have also been part of House Bill 625. And not just those convicted of stalking or sexual harassment, but also spousal or child abuse, and not just those convicted, but even those who have been charged with those offenses should also turn in their guns, at least until their cases are adjudicated.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

30. Do they really put you in a criminal database?

That seems dirty to me.

[Major Nikon]

40. It's not a database of criminals, it's an FBI monitoring service

People like school teachers are routinely included because school districts generally like to know if one of their employees is arrested in another state for things like child molestation.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

42. Gotcha.

Do you know what they call the database/registry?

[OneCrazyDiamond]

43. I think it is this:

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-announces-full-operational-capability-of-the-next-generation-identification-system

[Major Nikon]

50. FBI Rap Back service

Rap Back
The Rap Back service allows authorized agencies to receive notification of activity on individuals who hold positions of trust (e.g. school teachers, daycare workers) or who are under criminal justice supervision or investigation, thus eliminating the need for repeated background checks on a person from the same applicant agency. Prior to the deployment of Rap Back, the national criminal history background check system provided a one-time snapshot view of an individual’s criminal history status. With Rap Back, authorized agencies can receive on-going status notifications of any criminal history reported to the FBI after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. By using fingerprint identification to identify persons arrested and prosecuted for crimes, Rap Back provides a nationwide notice to both criminal justice and noncriminal justice authorities regarding subsequent actions.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/fingerprints_biometrics/ngi

[TeddyR]

31. Second Amendment

Rights are subject to local regulation, just like abortion or voting rights. So long as the law is constitutional.

[red dog 1]

35. K&R!

"Hawaii just put gun owners on database & the NRA is freaking out"
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/hawaii-just-put-gun-owners-on-an-fbi-database-and-the-nra-is-freaking-out/

[beevul]

38. That database may be a problem.

The first is Act 108, which gives law enforcement agencies the power to enroll people who purchase firearms or register firearms into an FBI criminal database. The database will allow the FBI to alert Hawaii law enforcement whenever the owner of a gun is arrested anywhere in the country.

No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926

[Major Nikon]

41. Lots of states already require firearm registries

The law in question isn't transferring firearm information to the FBI. It's putting owners' names on a watch list so the state will know if they are being investigated for certain crimes.

[pansypoo53219]

39. OH NOES!!! SLIPPERY SLOPES!!!

[hueymahl]

48. I am sadly kicking and recc'ing this post

Kicking for getting something done. Kicking Sadly because it is such common sense, MINOR gun control legislation in one very liberal state. Hopefully it can be the seed for real gun reform.

[The Animator]

53. this sounds pretty good a few questions though ..

regarding turning over of firearms. could someone under the right circumstances somebody who has been relieved of their weapons earn the right to get them back? what happens to the ones that have been taken? would they be resold stored, destroy would they be resold stored destroyed?

would someone relinquishing their guns receive a receipt? would they be reimbursed ? some of these weapons represent a significant financial investment.

I'm not a gun person, but my Dad inherited an 1873 Springfield from my grandfather. Eventually it will pass to me. I'd hate to think circumstances could arise where I'd never see it again.. Again, these laws don't affect me, but I'm wondering about the logisitcs.

[Hekate]

54. Alooooooha. KnR