The Game Metaphor: How to Teach Racists That There is no Such Thing as Reverse Racism

[bravenak]

Saying that there is reverse racism is like saying that the loss the one who always wins experiences that one time is the same thing as the loss that the one who always loses has experienced for ten years. They are very different losses, almost to the point where we cannot use the same word to describe them.

Even though the person who always wins loses, that loss is very different than the loss the loser has experienced for ten years. What it means for the person who always wins to 'lose' is a categorically different kind of 'loss' then the 'loss' which the one who always lost experiences. A perpetual winner's loss is a different kind of loss than the perpetual loser's loss. The loser's loss is Loss whereas the winner's loss is just loss. Why? Because of history. The loser has lost systematically, by virtue of who they are, not the rules of the game they're playing, for years and years.

This is why people of color cannot be racist against white people: whites have historically been the winners of social distribution--independently of the "rules" of society--whereas people of color have not, just by virtue of who they are. If people of color make particular gains on whites (like during Reconstruction or Civil Rights or affirmative action or the increasingly powerful Black Lives Matter critiques), this is not a "reversal." A reversal would require generations of white loss, trauma, and frustration from a systematic discrimination. For the same reasons, if people of color say something offensive about white people it cannot be racist. We have to use another word.

http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/game-theory-reverse-racism.html#.V225EJA76rV

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. Institutional and personally mediated racism are two very different things.

It's true that institutional racism happens to ethnic minorities. It is not true that all racists are white.

[bravenak]

2. Have to find a different word than racist

Maybe bigot?

[puffy socks]

82. no, still racist.

If a person doesn't like someone due solely to their race it is racism.

That doesn't mean there hasn't been rampant racism against the AA community in comparison, so why redefine it?

[metroins]

3. I strongly disagree with this

Anybody can be a target of racism.

The author of this article needs to learn the correct definition of racism. They try to discuss reverse racism but then get it confused with traditional racism. Very poorly written.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. Then, just about all post-20th century social scientists ...

that write peer-reviewed works about their study of racism "need to learn", too.

[metroins]

13. You said it, not me

If you feel that whites cannot be victims of racism, as the author wrote then you are correct, they do need to learn the definition of racism, I'll send them a dictionary link for free.

And to be frank, that is utter bullshit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. I'm saying that better than 2 decades of social scientists agree with the author ...

as these academics distinguish between bigotry, which anyone can be because it requires no institutional or cultural power to affect others, and racism/sexism/heterosexism, which requires institutional support to affect others.

And, what is utter bullshit is substituting, "I think ..." for, "the weight of the peer-reviewed academic literature concludes ..." and pretending that the conclusions are of equal value.

[metroins]

50. Brb

I'm going to go find all the RW articles that are peer reviewed on the heritage foundation showing how RW policies are the best.

I guess you'll have to agree with them because they're peer reviewed.

I'm not in academia, but I'm in research. There's bullshit everywhere and this is bullshit some on the left are pushing. You can't change the definition of racism.

Any race can have racism against them.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. Okay ... Not going to argue with someone that is convinced by ...

their whiteness ... er, rightness.

Note to the offended: This comment plays off the concept of white privilege ... which includes, the ability to define words words and concepts, away from those holding the privilege.

[melman]

96. lol

translation: you have no way to respond because that poster destroyed your argument.

[kcr]

122. They sure did, with all those peer reviewed RW articles they came back with

Oh. They must be invisible.

[1StrongBlackMan]

131. LOL ... And thus, you demonstrate the problem with relying on "dictionaries."

[heaven05]

115. wrong

Last edited Wed Jun 29, 2016, 11:47 AM - Edit history (2)

institutional, power driven racism is a white construct. Has been from the beginning. Eveerything in OP is truth. I know it hurts you to think you can be the object of bigotry and maybe you just don't want to admit an historical truth because racism is a purely white american construct in this context. I can be bigoted toward you, yet I have not the means to segregate your race along economic, educational and civil/voting rights lines. I do not have the ability to stop your right to vote as many black people are being denied even in our 'free' democracy in many states in this 21st century. No your objections lack merit because they are based on an emotional response with NOTHING to prove that black people are playing on a level field and therefore have the power to back up and even kill based on race as many whites have and are doing under the authority of the state and it's institutions. Everthing in this country has provided the white race with all the opportunies to succeed, all they have to do is claim their due based on white privilege. There is no black privilege in america. American institutions both educational and civil have ALWAYS been able and still are able to deny a black family that can afford it housing in white neighborhoods with group racism. Some states are denying affirmative action as a redress of generations long racism in the educational area that only impacts worthy and striving POC. Black people don't have white privilege, you do based on the institutional and civil racism that is as american as apple pie and still quite a tool always handy to the white race in america.

I can be a bigot but since I cannot apply any institution against you to deny your dreams as white privilege allows you, white racial policies have done to AA for many generations everything I used as examples to deny equal footing in america. I cannot be a racist. This bullshit about black people practicing reverse racism is just that, bullshit.

[tblue37]

133. The problem is that the technical use of "racism" by social scientists is not the same

as the popular use of the same word.

This is the same problem we run into when trying to discuss evolution with creationists. To a scientist, the word "theory" refers to the best explanation they have for all the currently known facts. The theory of gravity, for example, is not just someone's opinion:



But in popular parlance people commonly use "theory" to mean "opinion," so the phrase "theory of evolution" leads them to disingenuously claim that since even scientists admit that evolution is just a "theory," that means it is mere speculation, resting on the flimsy ground of a few atheists' anti-religious opinions.

[1StrongBlackMan]

137. Thank you ... this really is a "popular parlance"/"technical definition" argument ...

however, the former is just that a definition of a word; whereas, the latter is a tool to address the problem of reason ... before a problem can be solved, it must, first, be accurately described/defined.

But I suspect those arguing for the popular usage are less concerned with finding a solution for a problem that does not affect them as the are, making it about them.

[AllTooEasy]

39. Yeah, they do.

I've worked in academia. There's a lot of bullshit in there, especially in the social sciences. I taught electrical engineering at the University of MD before I decided to make some real money. Our papers were peer reviewed by the laws of physics. Social Science papers were peer reviewed by on-campus political affiliations. Don't kiss the correct professor's ring long enough, and your paper was doomed no matter how accurate it was. Shit, some of their papers absolutely contradicted each other on the same campus.

The Science disciplines, you say " E=mc squared Bitches" and no one could deny or argue with it. Loved it.

[cloudbase]

70. Indeed.

I asked a friend who is a geology professor about peer review. She said that you get to pick your reviewers. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

We tend to place peer review on some altar of infallibility. That's not the case in the real world.

[bravenak]

8. The author teaches racism and intersectionality

I think they have the accreditation to know how to define racism properly. You may disagree but it is the reality.

[metroins]

17. No, it is not

No accreditation can change the literal definition of racism.

Many Fox News reporters have accreditation, I'm sure you don't accept what they say as fact.

The statement that whites cannot be victims of racism is bullshit and I'll send them a dictionary definition of it if they'd like.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

[bravenak]

19. Merriam Webster does not define racism for sociologists.

Or for me.

[metroins]

26. Then feel free

To make up your own definition, because I could point out over 9000 instances in current and past history where whites were victims of racism.

You can't change the definition of a word and you can't exclude a race from being oppressed because they've all been there at some point.

Anybody can make anything stand for whatever they wish when we start ignoring the true meaning of words.

[bravenak]

28. Point them out then

I'll wait.

[metroins]

42. I'll do micro and macro

And I'll leave out the black/brown race to make it even more apparent.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior and that race has the power to oppress.

Micro: Asians superior to whites
http://m.topix.com/forum/afam/TS631UC7NLBQG9JHM

This man feels that asians are the superior race, throughout the thread, multiple people espouse racist hate towards whites.

Macro: Barbary slave trade
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

There's instances of Arabs oppressing whites, asians oppressing whites, whites oppressing other whites, blacks oppressing whites.

History sucks for everybody, and there's hatred and bigotry all around. I'm Irish and it's not like we had it easy, we got beat to shit by people.

[bravenak]

44. Ok. But this discussion is about racism in America.

[metroins]

52. Reread your article

It briefly mentions American eras at the end but doesn't mention America at all.

The article is horribly written, as I pointed out in my initial reply.

I have to go to the gym now, I'll make sure to put on my flame suit when I come back.

[7962]

106. So were you alive 70 yrs ago, you would've agreed with THOSE sociologists too?

The ones who thought that blacks & other races were just a little inferior? No, of course not. And rightfully so.
Anyone can be a racist. Just feel, do or say racist things and YOU ARE A RACIST.
I dont know why there seems to be a constant need to excuse or explain away bad behavior with some nonsense such as this.

[mcar]

30. I don't agree that anyone can be the target of racism

[gollygee]

37. Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive

And they are a part of our white supremacist society as well.

[ZombieHorde]

49. Racism is systematic while bigotry is individualistic.

The colloquial use of racism is simply racial prejudice, but the sociological use, which the author is using, is about how racial social constructs affect people of different perceived races in a perceived society.

[scscholar]

93. I disagree

So when my company decided we would only hire Asian women, you think that was racist? No, it was balancing the scales.

[7962]

104. Of course a member of any race can be racist towards another race.

Your comment is exactly right. And will be roundly disputed by those who wish to perpetuate this racial divide.
But the definition of the word seems to be fluid; meaning only what the person using it WANTS it to mean; regardless of reality.
The constant need to stretch and distort it is bordering on ridiculous. I wonder just what nonsense we'll be hearing 40 yrs from now.

The bottom line is: if you dislike or discriminate against someone based on the color of their skin, you are a RACIST. Regardless of YOUR color.
Treat everyone equally and you'll never have to worry about the accusation.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. I'll post a prescient ... "But. But. But. Whoosh" here. n/t

[bravenak]

10. I know

[cpwm17]

5. I grew up in an area where everyone was a minority.

I learned quickly that whites don't have a monopoloy on racism.

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/Submit
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

[bravenak]

9. And the dictionary is not the place to find sociological definitions.

[cpwm17]

20. A dictionary is where to find the meaning of words, which is, how words are used.

Racism means what speakers of the English language intend it to mean.

Nobody owns the English language. English belongs to all of us, and not to people with an agenda.

[bravenak]

23. And if you want a fuller meaning that is relevant today

IT's best not to rely on a defintion that was written when black people were still property.

[gollygee]

38. Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive

And they are also part of our white supremacist society.

[Travis_0004]

40. And Im not a sociologist

Most people would argue that minorities can be racist and I agree. Ok maybe biggot is the correct phrase, but ai don't really care. The term racist fits just as well.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. Racism = bigotry + institutional/cultural power ... Welcome to the 21st Century.

[cpwm17]

34. Another dictionary:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

Simple Definition of racism
: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race
: the belief that some races of people are better than others
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
Examples: racism in a sentence


Full Definition of racism
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

Welcome to the English language, and language in general. Words mean what the speakers of the language intend them to mean. Dictionaries document the meanings.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. Merriam-Websters Learner's Dictionary hasn't studies the phenomena of racism.

[cpwm17]

74. That's irrelevant.

Dictionaries only document a word's usage, which establishes a word's meaning.

[romanic]

123. Too true.

I learned quickly that whites don't have a monopoloy on racism.

Growing up in a mostly black suburb of Detroit where nearly all the liquor/party stores, gas stations, check cashing places and coney islands (restaurants) were owned by Arabs or Chaldeans; I saw first hand the racist back and forth between them and the black/latino residents they served.

[linuxman]

6. I'm not under the illusion

That institutional racism is the only kind of racism there is. It can be personal as well. Stating otherwise is just a cheap way to insulate select groups from criticism of their own hateful expressions.

[bravenak]

11. This has been discussed for years

The dictionary was not written by the victims of racism. We had no say in the defintions back then but we certainly do now.

[linuxman]

21. Neat. So do I.

I say it's an attempt to absolve certain groups of their own racist (yes) behavior. A person doesn't need the backing of a societal system in order to be s racist. To think otherwise assumes that racism can't be an individual act.

That's the great thing about playing semantics. It's a two way street, much like racism.

[bravenak]

27. That's nice

[linuxman]

31. Isn't it just?

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. +1 ... But now, we have the better than 2 decades of peer-reviewed works ...

of academics to better describe the phenomena of racism ... though, like the geocentric philosophers of old, some non-victims will resist.

[bravenak]

25. I think just discussing it makes some feel oppressed

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. Fragility!

[bravenak]

55. We better be nice

We know whose ice is colder.

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. I fear I may be seen as having crossed a line in a thread response...

So, I'm out of here ... Off to the Casino for an evening of Hold-em, slots, and stiff drinks!

Peace!

[bravenak]

66. Have a good time! Drink one for me!

[gollygee]

43. Put a group made up all, or almost all, of white men in a room

And have them decide definitions for all the words.

And then pretend that those definitions are some kind of intrinsic truths rather than just what a group of white men decided.

[bravenak]

48. That's how I see it

[Marr]

80. +1

[Cha]

14. Thank you for this, brave.. it certainly makes sense to me.. it's not the same.

[bravenak]

16. Thank you!!

Love ya!

[Cha]

24. Thank you, Sweetheart!

Love you

P.S. Keep up the great work, I know you will!

[Taitertots]

15. Nope, you don't get to newspeak "racism"

Anyone with racial animus (regardless of their race) is racist. The definition is unambiguous.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism", it's just regular old racism.

[bravenak]

18. I can discuss the effects of long term racism and it's effect on us as a nation

This definition has been around for years.

[Taitertots]

33. Of course you can discuss the history of racist behavior/ideas in America

That does nothing to change the definition of racism. It's unambiguous.

The definition didn't change. Even if a tiny group of people wishes it would change to protect their ideology of racial animus and racial collective guilt.

[bravenak]

35. This is about reverse racism not being a thing.

This is not a new definition. It has been around my entire life.

[Taitertots]

41. If you hold any animus against another race, you're racist (regardless of your own race)

"Reverse racism" is just racism.

You don't get to twist the definition of "racism" to shield racists from their animus against other races. It's a definition that is held by ideologues and racists to attempt to avoid criticism for their disgusting racist views.

[bravenak]

45. I have no idea what you are talking about at this point

[Taitertots]

56. It's unambiguous. Anyone with racial animus is a racist

Your OP claims that people can have animus against other races without being racist. This is a disgusting lie to avoid criticism for having racist views and exhibiting racist behavior.

[bravenak]

59. This paragraph explains that:

This is why people of color cannot be racist against white people: whites have historically been the winners of social distribution--independently of the "rules" of society--whereas people of color have not, just by virtue of who they are. If people of color make particular gains on whites (like during Reconstruction or Civil Rights or affirmative action or the increasingly powerful Black Lives Matter critiques), this is not a "reversal." A reversal would require generations of white loss, trauma, and frustration from a systematic discrimination. For the same reasons, if people of color say something offensive about white people it cannot be racist. We have to use another word.

[Taitertots]

67. No it doesn't. It's an offensive attempt to shield racists from criticism

Anyone with racial animus (regardless of their race) is a racist. There is no ambiguity.

[bravenak]

68. It was a good explanation

That is all

[Taitertots]

73. LOL. It's trash defending racist scum.

Anyone with racial animus is a racist. Your defense of racism is offensive.

[7962]

109. You're right of course, but here its "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"

I just dont get it either. Why not try to get everyone to treat each other equally instead of this BS?

[melman]

90. Not surprising

[gollygee]

47. You think every anti-racist activist is actually a racist

For not agreeing with you about this?

[Taitertots]

63. Do you believe people can have racial animus without being racist?

Anyone with racial animus isn't an "anti-racism activist". They're just regular old racists.

[gollygee]

76. I hope someday

You're able to grow in understanding, for yourself and your community. Peace to you.

[Marr]

79. +1, that about sums it up.

It couldn't be much more transparent.

[Nye Bevan]

29. I find the term "reverse racism" ridiculous and have never used it.

Either someone is a racist, or they are not.

rac·ism
ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-
noun
: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race
: the belief that some races of people are better than others

http://i.word.com/idictionary/racism

[bravenak]

32. I agree that it is ridiculous

[AllTooEasy]

46. Bullshit. My Dad hated White people

Wouldn't hire them. Wouldn't let me play with them. I could go on and on. Said "No White man can be a Muslim", except he didn't say White man.

He hated gays and Asians too. Got along very well with Latinos though.

[bravenak]

51. I call that a bigot

[jack_krass]

134. Nope doesnt sould like a racist to me

[Rex]

57. As a white man, I grew up learning that Reverse Racism is what the South wanted to exist so badly.

So that somehow, the magic of blaming someone else for all their woes is okay and there is even a term for it!

[bravenak]

62. Such a strange coping mechanism....

[Rex]

125. I've never understood it.

Down is up etc..

[One_Life_To_Give]

58. Courts ruled differently in several cases

Nine Firefighters Awarded $3.2 Million in Reverse-Discrimination Case (Apr. 12, 2002)

Excerpted from the Hartford Courant story by Matt Burgard and Mark Pazniokas 4-12-02, and from the Hartford Advocate story by By Colleen Van Tassell and Edward Ericson, Jr. 4-11-02

"A federal jury returned a $3.2 million verdict Thursday against the city of Hartford in a reverse-discrimination case ..."

U.S. Supreme Court Rules That City Discriminated Against White Firefighters In Landmark Reverse Discrimination Case

There are multiple cases listed in a quick google search.

[bravenak]

60. The US courts are notoriously biased against blacks.

[One_Life_To_Give]

72. The Hartford case was pretty clear

The chief officers intentionally and with glee inflicted the same actions they believed were done against them by whites previously. Their comments brought up in court about the white guys crying to their wives was pretty damning. The white guys crime was to be the same race as the people whom the chief officers believed had previously discriminated against them. And according to reports at the time the Chiefs felt they could get away with it because Whites were not protected against it. Only POC could be victimized and receive remedy from the courts.

[bravenak]

88. That is called discrimination

[One_Life_To_Give]

92. Discrimination based upon the victims Race

[bravenak]

94. Right. Still not racism.

[Raster]

64. You are referring to "reverse discrimination" NOT reverse racism...

...racism IS or ISN'T... there is no reverse racism.

[hunter]

69. I'm both amused and horrified by some of the responses in this thread.

I'm a white guy. If someone tells me I'm behaving in some racist way, I listen. I grew up in a 99% white community, a community originally and explicitly designed as a white community and kept that way by the overt and covert actions of racists, even today. I left for good and wouldn't go back.

I've lived in communities where I'm a minority white guy for most of my life now and I still screw up sometimes, acting like a clueless white guy.



The opposite happens too, I'll sometimes encounter non-white people, generally older than me, who'll treat me in the automatic "respectful manner" that I don't deserve, the habitual "Yes, sirs" and all the other mannerisms that were beaten into them as children, and as employees, and as people being stopped by the police, etc., in a world where white men were always the bosses.

Arguing that I'm somehow colorblind, or about dictionary definitions of racism, doesn't get me anywhere. It just makes me look like a clueless white guy.

[sheshe2]

71. From your link

How do you explain to people who think there is reverse racism that reverse racism does not exist? Tim Wise has an essay about this, and you can find resources in The Daily Dot, Everyday Feminism, The Daily Kos, and Huffington Post to explain why a person of color cannot be racist towards a white person.[1]

This semester some of my students had difficulty understanding this, however. Many of the above resources (and the explanations I tried to give) rely on concepts like structure, oppression, and systematic inequality. These ideas are unfamiliar to those who have grown up with modern forms of racism, particularly colorblindness. It is difficult to guide the racially unknowing, ignorant, and fragile (read: most white people) to an understanding of these ideas, so explanations rejecting reverse racism fall short.
http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/game-theory-reverse-racism.html#.V23JB2wlt-G

As Tim Wise shows, Racism is far more than a definition in the dictionary.

Good post brave, thanks.

[Marr]

75. If someone tries to convince you they *cannot*, by definition, be racist...

...they're probably a racist.

Sorry, but this whole 'blacks can't be racist' thing is just stupid. No one buys it outside of a tiny group of people pushing racist ideologies.

[cpwm17]

84. Exactly.

It's not surprising that someone that has a racist agenda has no idea how language works.

Religious fundies also like to change the meaning of words for their own agenda.

The meaning of words is democratic, not authoritarian. No authority can just change the meaning of words. Usage establishes meaning which is documented in dictionaries.

[ismnotwasm]

101. We are talking within a paradigm of dominant whiteness

There is no aw shucks down home wisdom about that dominance, it is historical fact. Within that paradigm, reverse racism not only doesn't exist, it cannot exist. Not unless the word "racism" is redefined in such a way it loses meaning

Human beings are not perfect and I think every damn one of us is bigoted or prejudiced about something we shouldn't be. That isn't the point. There is no need to water down what racism is by saying "they"--who ever "they" may be, "do it too" there is also no need to play definition games or word games when discussing racism, predjudice and bigotry. We know, or should know, what these words mean.
Human beings won't overcome the disease of racism unless it is owned and acknowledged in all its ugliness.

Straight from the heart.

[ismnotwasm]

108. Oh.

It's you.

[Marr]

113. You're the one redefining the word 'racist'.

It has nothing to do with what race holds sway in society, as any dictionary will tell you. The concept you're referring to is called 'institutional racism', and we've had that phrase for a very long time now for a reason.

No one outside of a few small, campus-based echo chambers uses the word 'racism' to mean exclusively 'institutional racism'.

[ismnotwasm]

121. No

I am most certainly not referring only to institutional racism. What small campus based echo chambers are you referring too?

[7962]

110. You are correct. nt

[Starry Messenger]

78. I missed what prompted this, but cosign.

[treestar]

83. White people going on about reverse racism

are either really ignorant of history or more likely, just making excuses. I don't know how many times these dunderheads have complained about any Black Pageant, Entertainment channel, college etc as if the black people had never been excluded from the pre-existing institution, which was and still can be effectively the "white" one.

[bravenak]

87. I had a friend complain to me about BET once. I laughed my ass off.

[rhett o rick]

85. I agree that there is no such thing as "reverse" racism, but that's all I agree with.

To say that AA are free to be racist toward the white community because of the generations of the racism the AA suffered at the hands of the white community is ridiculous. That's the same as saying it would be ok if AA had white Americans as slaves because we would re-define slavery to mean it can't apply to the white community in order to make up for the years of AA slavery.

Or telling the American Indians they can kill white Americans because of the genocide of earlier generations.

The younger generations shouldn't be punished for the evils of older generations. It will only create new hatred.

[immoderate]

86. Isn't reverse racism being especially *nice* to an, uhm, 'adversarial'(?) race of a different color?

--imm

[betsuni]

89. What's with all the dictionary worship in this thread?

Thesauruses are better. I find dictionaries vague and yet bossy at the same time. I often ignore Dry Clean Only tags. Yesterday I made some soup and on the can it said DO NOT BOIL but I BOILED IT.

[bravenak]

91. I also prefer a nice thesaurus.

[Nye Bevan]

119. Thesauruses are great. "Bigotry" is a synonym for "racism", for example:

Main Entry: racism
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: prejudice against an ethnic group
Synonyms: apartheid, bias, bigotry, discrimination, illiberality, one-sidedness, partiality, racialism, sectarianism, segregation, unfairness

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/racism

[lib87]

95. "but but but Bravenak! I'm White and Black people Made Fun of my whiteness"

And this negatively affects my educational outlook, job prospects, made me get followed in stores, higher interest rates on loans, red lined me from buying/renting in particular neighborhoods, profiled by police just like my parents and their parents and their parents and....wait a minute.

[ismnotwasm]

97. +10^10

[MrScorpio]

98. Excellent explanation

But we both know that racists will do everything to reject it.

[tclambert]

99. Coleman Young said that black people cannot be racist. Oh, how the suburban white politicians howled

They complained that black people can certainly be just as prejudiced as white people. But Coleman Young defined racism as "oppression based on racial prejudice." And black people, no matter how prejudiced they might be, didn't have the power to oppress white people. The white politicians in the suburbs defined the word racism as exactly the same as prejudice.

Sometimes people use the same words, but mean different things. Weird.

[Adrahil]

112. That's very soecific to the US.

Zimbabwe would be a very different case, for example.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

130. As was Rhodesia, in its day.

In which the empowered minority governed the oppressed majority.

[Stellar]

100. First, you've got to convince them to stop watching FOX 'news'...

that probably taught them about reverse racism in the first place.

[w4rma]

102. "Reverse" racism is a dumb term. It's just more racism. (nt)

[Haveadream]

103. I have posted this before but it bears repeating

and is on point for the topic of "reverse racism"!

[athena]

111. That's brilliant!

Thanks for posting this. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand for some people.

[Haveadream]

120. I'm not sure either

How difficult is it to see that the weight of centuries of unrelenting discrimination and abuse factors into the meaning of words used to describe that?

[pansypoo53219]

105. yankees vs cleveland. indeed.

[Uponthegears]

114. Exactly

[heaven05]

116. +1000

thank you for your excellent posts today. The truth is always refreshing and shines the light into very dark corners of american white racism.

[bravenak]

117. I think the more we talk about it the better able we are to find some solutions

[heaven05]

118. hopefully

backatcha

[brer cat]

124. bravenak, do you agree

that racism = prejudice + power or is that too simplistic? My old brain works best these days with fairly simple concepts.

Good OP, bound to make some white folks pissy. K&R

[bravenak]

126. I agree with that, I don't find it too simplistic.

[forjusticethunders]

127. I'm not even going to try with this shit.

It's too late in the day.

But why are you all so invested in "proving" that a minority can be racist against you? We already know minorities can be bigoted and hateful towards non-minorities, nobody is defending or condoning that.

[NobodyHere]

128. There is no reverse racism

But there are racists of all colors

[backscatter712]

129. I tend to frame things a little differently.

I won't say there is no such thing as, say, black-on-white racism.

But it's virtually impossible for reverse-racism to have any sort of teeth.

As a white guy, if I drop the n-bomb on a black person, there's five hundred years of history behind that word and the tone in which it is used. Slavery, Jim Crow, police brutality, five hundred years of "Don't get uppity or we'll kill you!"

By comparison, "honky" or any other racial slur that a black man might use on me, just doesn't have that same ugly history.

There you have it. Privilege and entrenched oppression is a thing, all the way down into language, like it or not, and it's necessary to recognize it in order to fight it.

[LaydeeBug]

132. The reverse of racism is inclusion.

This silly shit with "the oppressed minority can't *possibly* be racist toward the majority" is straight up divisive bullshit.

[jack_krass]

135. Racial identity politics is a pholospphy built on a foundtion of jello

This idiocy, if taken seriously (thank god its it's only done so on message boards and universities) would make "racism" impossible to define (anf therefore fight) because the "dominate power structure" is subjective, and varies by city, county, and country.

[Iggo]

136. The system is racist. People are bigots.