ONE LAST TIME: Brexit, for the VAST MAJORITY of Leave voters, was about xenophobia

[auntpurl]

For all of you who don't LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY, have no idea what it's like, and think most Leave voters are deep progressive thinkers who are making a statement about EU interference, trade, economic policy, or even their own jobs and futures, I cannot argue anymore, so I will let these examples speak for me:

Newcastle town center, today. Not in 1980. TODAY.




Many many many many many many many examples of pure racism and xenophobia from social media. These are just a few.




And for sheer stupidity, these comments on a Daily Mail article about how Brexit will affect your holiday money, mortgages, passports, health cover, etc:

Anne, East Midlands: Never saw any of this kind of informative article before the vote, just scaremongering! We wanted everything spelt out exactly like this so we knew the pros and cons......to [sic] late now publishing this!

Libby88, Cheshire: Why were things not outlined this clearly BEFORE we had to vote..

allygbxl: I would never have voted leave had I know [sic] all of this. Why weren't we told?

Victor, Leeds: So the Remain campaign were telling the truth.

MAYBE STOP GETTING ALL YOUR NEWS FROM THE DAILY FUCKING MAIL.



Actual Nazi propaganda film image on left, Nigel Farage today on right:





Racism on rise in UK after Brexit campaign, Labor warns:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-25/racism-on-rise-in-u-k-after-brexit-campaign-labour-warns

Communities are “divided and bruised” after Britain’s vote to leave the European Union and racism is on the rise, a senior Labour lawmaker warned.

Schoolchildren were racially abused in a west London district this week and many in her constituency feel “vulnerable” after the Brexit referendum, Seema Malhotra, one of the main opposition party’s team of Treasury spokespeople said at an event in the capital on Saturday.

“Someone shouted: ‘Why are there only 10 white faces in this class? Why aren’t we educating the English?’” she said, citing a letter from a teacher in her electoral district about an incident on Wednesday. “Another went close up to the children and said: ‘You lot are taking all our jobs. You’re the problem. You’re taking our jobs, you’re taking our land.”’

Malhotra represents the district of Feltham and Heston in the London borough of Hounslow, which voted by 51.1% to remain in the EU. She said the teacher hadn’t heard a comment like it “in three years.” Children age six were “crying and saying they would have to leave this country,” she said.

Vote Leave, the official group that backed Brexit, explicitly targeted concerns over immigration in the referendum campaign that saw Britain vote to quit the 28-nation bloc. Boris Johnson, their leading spokesman and the favorite to succeed David Cameron as prime minister, began backing away from that message the morning after the vote.

Reports of "No more Polish vermin" signs left outside primary schools in Huntingdon:
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/reports-of-no-more-polish-vermin-signs-distributed-in-huntingdon/story-29443411-detail/story.html




Leave voter admits he voted to "stop Muslims coming into the UK" (video at link):
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-muslims_uk_576e558ce4b08d2c563937ff


Hope that helps clarify things.

[Hoyt]

1. Not much doubt in my mind. There are plenty of folks like that in USA.

[cigsandcoffee]

5. Plenty of folks like that in every country on Earth. n/t

[auntpurl]

10. And this is why we don't put complicated economic policy up for a general population referendum

and then build it to a big bubbling froth by demonising immigrants in the media at every opportunity.

All to settle a spat in the Tory party.

[leveymg]

70. Your post doesn't prove your point. I see four nutter Brits with a banner and cherry-picked images.

Last edited Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Interlaced with snippets of reported xenophobic nastiness, I see RW propaganda images of refugees that have a striking parallel across eight decades. I see a photo of pathetic acts of private pamphleteering and threats in Polish, "No more Polish vermin!"

A montage, and it captures part of the truth, but only a corner. Xenophobic hysteria becomes a successful mass political movement only when a large portion of the population becomes aware that their economic livelihoods have eroded, and RW scapegoating of domestic minorities and the poor are no longer enough to placate their fears.

It's not just about immigrants. Here's the dividing line that captures the bigger economic picture that divides decaying post-indistrial Britain from the City of London, Scotland and Northern Ireland, where many still believe they personally benefit from globalization or from direct trade with Europe.

That is the primary reason the Industrial South and Midlands voted to Leave. There are lots of causes for Brexit, but loss of industrial, unionized jobs with decent pay and benefits in areas that voted to Leave has to be at or near the very top to explain the geographic breakdown shown below.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

[auntpurl]

74. Ok.

I see your infographic and counter it with another:



This will HURT the very people you're talking about. Cornwall voted to leave by 57% and is immediately demanded the government match their EU contribution:



These are under-educated people who've been duped by a double whammy of insidious media coverage demonising immigrants and the EU, and politicians blatantly lying to the degree that they've already reneged on their promises on TV by 8:00am this MORNING.

[leveymg]

79. If you want to get really granular, FDI from the EU did not stop the loss of real income

It merely accelerated it as wages in the British post-industrial economy, that has also become increasingly a foreign-owned globalized economy, have declined.

Again, I don't believe your post proves your point. This is a case of what happens when union welders become Whimpy* burger flippers, and Whimpy becomes part of a global chain.

*Wimpy is the brand name of a multinational chain of fast food restaurants that is currently headquartered in Johannesburg, South Africa.

[AntiBank]

93. +100

Many many reasons from a pure left wing analysis to help clarify why it passes, why many in the left were for it passing, and why the EU overall is simply not a good thing from a multitude of left wing, democratic and socialist rationales.

But hey! simplistic, overstated scapegoating (ironic as people who want to prop up the EU use people who scapegoat as the be-all and end-all reason Brexit passed as their main weapon du jour) makes for nice little bow to wrap up the sour grapes.

[clarice]

200. What?????!!!! Are you serious????!!!!! nt

[auntpurl]

201. ...about?

[clarice]

203. That issues of this sort involving National issues should not be left up to the electorate??? nt

[auntpurl]

207. Uh, no, I'm not kidding.

Would you like to put the trade agreement with Mexico up for a straight up-down referendum with Trump voters?

This is why we have representative democracy.

[clarice]

210. ummmm. So If this issue is "beyond the scope" of the average British voter...

What government lackey would you "select" to make the decision for the British people?

[MADem]

2. Most millenials voted against it. The angry old people voted in favor.

I am in the "old" category, but I agree with the millenials.

'This vote doesn't represent the younger generation who will have to live with the consequences': Millennials vent fury at baby boomers for voting Britain OUT of the EU

Young Britons voted in droves for Remain with 72 per cent against Brexit
Leave campaign won, with 56 per cent of 50 to 64-year-olds backing Brexit
Young people protested by Parliament and vented anger on social media

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658671/This-vote-doesn-t-represent-younger-generation-live-consequences-Millennials-fury-baby-boomers-voting-Britain-EU.html#ixzz4CcWP6b71

[auntpurl]

53. There was a very clear correlation with education level as well nt

[MADem]

141. Yes, indeed.

Quite obvious simply from listening to the interviews of the LEAVE lot.

[clarice]

206. How elitist is that???? I'm glad that I don't live in your world... shameful.nt

[kiva]

139. Unfortunately the young voters didn't come out

in enough numbers. 72% of the youth vote plus 44% of the older vote would have stopped the Brexit. And no, not snark, I just don't understand how so many could ignore something this important to their future.

[MADem]

140. I think that no one actually thought this thing would pass.

I think they thought it would be close, but everyone would come to their senses.

Turns out, a lot of 'em didn't. And a LOT of people who voted LEAVE actually were voting for those "non-local" neighbors they have to LEAVE--the racism behind the vote is disturbing.

I was watching the BBC today, and there were a couple of old ladies cheering on the decision, who pretty much were happy that their neighbors who couldn't speak proper English would soon be on their bikes, as it were.

And funny how all the LEAVE enthusiasts -- at least those in public life -- have very little to say. They're thinking "Shit, this might not work out as well as we think--the EU isn't going to be giving us "Most Favored Nation" status anytime soon...." All those trade agreements...gone. All those favorable financial interactions...POOF. London as a centre for European commerce? Buh-bye! Jobs will be flowing to Germany and Paris...and the English-speaking jobs? Dublin will benefit ENORMOUSLY.

I wonder how many Englishmen will LOSE their jobs as a result of this dreadful, xenophobic election?

It's a sad day for UK.

[auntpurl]

164. On Twitter last night: "Boris Johnson sacrificed a million jobs to get one". nt

[MADem]

217. That's it, in a nutshell. nt

[clarice]

204. With all respect "Angry Old people".....really? nt

[MADem]

216. Yes, really--read the coverage, that IS how the vote broke down.

Old people who are angry at all the "foreigners" in their "green and pleasant land" were the ones who voted LEAVE. When interviewed on the street, they were saying things like

"Good-I'm tired of people who can't even say HELLO in English come here and taking all our services" and "We are tired of being pushed round by the foreigners," and "Well, they're not like us, are they? They simply can't get along here, they need to go..." I was watching the BBC for aftermath coverage, and that is how it played out.

The Millenials voted overwhelmingly to stay the course--in essence, their gripe is that the OLD people made a decision that the YOUNG people are going to have to live with forever. That's why there's such a push for a do-over.

Here: http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12025954/brexit-young-voters-remain

Brexit is a middle finger from the baby boomers to young people like me
by Jack Lennard on June 24, 2016

Let’s look at the voter demographics. The "Leave" vote was overwhelmingly carried by those over the age of 65, whereas according to pre-vote polling, 72 percent of those who were aged 18 to 24 favored "Remain." Why does this matter? Surely, in a referendum, every vote is equal, and the will of the people carries regardless of the demographic?

Well, there is some truth to that. But that doesn’t mean every UK voter will suffer the same consequences.

The process of the UK leaving the European Union would not be complete until late 2018 at the very earliest, assuming Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is triggered when a new prime minister is appointed in the autumn of this year. Even then, that’s just the basic settlement — trade deals and movement regulations could take decades to hammer out.

My generation will not enjoy the free movement to 27 different countries and the workers’ rights that rescued Britain from the "sick man of Europe" era of the 1970s
Despite young people having to live with the decision of the referendum for an average of 69 years, it has been decided for them by people who will only have to live with it for an average of 16 years. Put simply: The long-term effects of Brexit will not be felt by those who overwhelmingly voted for it. Because they will be dead...

http://time.com/4381878/brexit-generation-gap-older-younger-voters/


The U.K.’s Old Decided for the Young in the Brexit Vote
Simon Shuster / Margate @shustry June 24, 2016
Polls showed that British pensioners were about three times more likely than the youngest voters to want a permanent break with the E.U.

It took Gus Sharpe about two seconds to make up his mind on the question that tortured his country for months: Should the U.K. remain a member of the European Union or not? “To people my age it’s pretty obvious,” says the 19-year-old, whose mop of curly hair makes him look even younger. “We stay.”

What bothered him about the question was the government’s decision to put it to a vote in the first place—not just a survey to assess the public mood but an all but binding referendum to decide whether all British citizens would be E.U. citizens or not. “That’s such a personal decision,” says Sharpe.

Growing up in the seaside town of Margate, his identity as an Englishman was always intertwined with his sense of being a European. Besides, his E.U. passport has been incredibly valuable to him. It ensures a lifetime of freedom to travel and work in any of the union’s 28 member states, each with its own culture to explore, its own charms and opportunities. “So my generation has the most at stake in losing that,” he says.

But it wasn’t Sharpe’s generation that decided. Across the U.K., polls showed that only about 19% of people between the ages of 18 and 24 supported a British exit—the Brexit—from the E.U. Among pensioners, who came of age before the E.U. was created, a staggering 59% wanted their country to leave. And when all of the roughly 33 million ballots were counted on Friday morning, the position favored by most pensioners won out by a margin of around 1.3 million votes.

See? I am not talking out of turn, here--this IS how it went down. It's very unfortunate.

[sufrommich]

3. This just blows my mind:

Holy shit.

[auntpurl]

59. Charming, isn't it.

Cameron, who normally is less of a fascist and more of a plain old arrogant Conservative, called migrants a "swarm" last year. A SWARM.

[ReRe]

86. Then, he has no one to blame...

... but himself. That is definitely more than a "gaffe." Holy Moley.
"Loose lips, sink ships!" Guess he never heard of that old American idiom.

[auntpurl]

172. Here's the link, just in case anyone wanted to see it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33716501

Whether it was his normal arrogance and idiocy or deliberate dogwhistling, it was incredibly telling.

[ReRe]

173. Thanks, auntpurl

Will run over and add this link to the other. It is getting allot of attention, thanks to you. Guess they didn't have a sock handy to stuff down his throat when he was about to comment on the subject. Someone should have leaned over and reminded him to watch what he said, or told him what to say.

[MADem]

219. He was on the REMAIN crew, too...!

His words egged on the LEAVE lot.

[jonno99]

4. Seems to me that one could appear to prove almost anything by merely presenting anecdotes.

[auntpurl]

7. I don't have to prove anything to you.

I live here. I know what this is. You don't.

[JonLeibowitz]

11. That doesn't really address the substance of the point made.

[auntpurl]

16. Oh, sorry, did you not think my answer was substantive enough?

I feel terrible.

[JonLeibowitz]

18. I'm simply commenting on your lack of refutation. My feelings don't enter into the matter

[auntpurl]

20. And here you are, still commenting.

[melman]

31. So hostile

[auntpurl]

37. Do you think so?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

138. Without a doubt.

[840high]

108. Yes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

132. Hostile and condescending. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

150. I know. How dare someone living in the UK tell Americans what the campaign was about!

It's almost as though they think that because they live there and saw the campaign firsthand they know better than someone who doesn't and is disagreeing that it was about xenophobia. The absolute nerve!!

On a serious note, I admire the patience UK DUers have shown over the past two days. I know from experience when an American DUer took it upon themselves to 'educate' me about Australian politics how tiresome and irksome it is.

[auntpurl]

154. Thank you.

[TubbersUK]

177. + 100000000

[Denzil_DC]

180. Yeah. We need to learn our place.

Only US members are allowed to make unsubstantiated claims, apparently!

Folks can either listen to what we who actually just lived through this horrible campaign firsthand have to report, or keep on thinking they know best and dismiss us.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't suppose it makes much difference.

[NastyRiffraff]

209. I wish I could rec a post

You are so right, Violet.

[JustAnotherGen]

227. +1000 n/t

[pkdu]

153. Please stop refuting the "Pitchfork and Torches brigade" theories..facts and realities upset them.nt

[modem77]

233. Yet 52% of the UK disagrees with you.

The majority of your people said you are wrong.

[OnDoutside]

8. Well said. There were many reasons, and that was certainly one of them, but it was far from the main

reason. In my 30 years of working & interacting with British people, I have found the vast majority to be fair and open.

[auntpurl]

14. I LIVE here. Why would you think I was making this up?

There are literally people chanting "Paki's go home" at schoolchildren. You think this was a calm reasoned decision? The media made this, corrupt evil politicians made this. They preyed on people's base fears of "the other" and this is the result.

[auntpurl]

28. Refugees do not get jobs or housing ahead of British citizens

That is rubbish.

Every Syrian refugee trying to get into the UK from France would fit on ONE Tube train.

The fears are overblown and frothed into rage by the media.

[swhisper1]

32. probably, but it is human nature, and some are more radical than others

Brexit is far more loss of sovereignty and identity than refugees

[auntpurl]

39. See OP.

[Jim Beard]

131. From the Guardian

[link:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/02/refugees-welcome-uk-germany-compare-migration|Between June 2014 and June 2015, the UK took 166 Syrian refugees. They were resettled from camps in Jordan and other neighbouring countries under a new government scheme. The “vulnerable persons” relocation initiative began in March 2014. Under it, the UK has taken 216 people. In June David Cameron said the scheme would be “modestly expanded”.

The Home Office says that since 2011 almost 5,000 Syrians including family members have been given asylum under normal procedures. However, the figure includes many Syrians who were already living in the UK, and who were unable to return home because of war. Britain is the second biggest bilateral donor of humanitarian aid. It has pledged £900m, the Home Office says.]

[auntpurl]

152. And?

5000 people is so minuscule as to be a rounding error.

And we give aid because we're a rich country, as it should be.

Not sure the point of your post?

[Jim Beard]

247. The point

very few immigrants to the UK. Thought it might be self explanatory.

[Hoyt]

38. Sorry, I totally disagree.

[Agnosticsherbet]

72. So how do you feel about undocumented workers in the US, (economic refugees) or

the 2 million boat people who fled Indochina between 75 and 95? Most of them came here and stayed here?

[swhisper1]

88. if they entered legally, its fine

undocumented workers should have a work visa. those are us laws.

[840high]

109. +10

[OnDoutside]

107. No, I'm sure that's happening but I wouldn't tar all English people with that brush, just as I

wouldn't tar all Muslims as terrorists. I've met many English people over the last 30 years who have been thoroughly decent. In fact two of my best friends are English and voted Leave.

[840high]

110. I have friends in London

that I met here. They voted Leave.

[OnDoutside]

115. Yes, I was really surprised with my friends as they were both well educated and well travelled

within Europe over the last 20 years. I just think they hadn't thought it through fully.

[larkrake]

170. no, I think you really believe it, but it rings hollow to us,brexit isnt a one issue conflict

and the many times I spent time in england, I found brits to be very educated and informed, open to others. Class is an issue, but I did not see racial or religious probléms.
I know you are upset and rightfully so,but I cannot buy it. England is going to be fine,she has been a survivor for centuries and will not suffer this over-reaction for long.

[swhisper1]

23. agreed

[PaulaFarrell]

230. I've lived here 25 years

Believe me when I tell you that xenophobia is a common trait. Americans are especially disliked - those guys you think are so open and fair probably call you a wanker behind your back.

[OnDoutside]

238. Maybe it's just you ? ;)

[PaulaFarrell]

239. no they like me

Its because apparently I'm 'not like other Americans'

[JonLeibowitz]

13. More innuendo about the American left. Sigh.

It gets old, and isn't convincing anyone.

[auntpurl]

17. Oh, isn't it? I am more than convinced. The poster stated fact, not innuendo.

[JonLeibowitz]

19. The post was deliciously fact-free.

[auntpurl]

21. You are wasting your time.

But keep kicking the thread.

[swhisper1]

27. cherry picked photos do not reflect the feelings of the majority

[auntpurl]

44. Ha ha, you replied to me. We're on the same side. :)

[auntpurl]

67. In all seriousness

I am shocked at how many people who say they are progressives here on DU are in favour of Brexit. They genuinely have no idea what's happened or why.

[mcar]

123. It is so discouraging

I cannot believe what I've read here the last few days. Wait, scratch that. I can believe it, but I makes me so sad and worried.

[NastyRiffraff]

211. It is unbelievable!

I'm not sure why they're in favor; it makes no sense for a liberal (a term I prefer to "progressive&quot to support a far right agenda. They're like the Daily Mail readers in the UK. Daily Mail; might as well get your news from the National Enquirer.

[MADem]

220. A weird thing is happening on the far left, I fear.

Not the moderate left, but that tip of the left wing.

It's flapping so hard it's touching the tip of the right wing...!

I cannot imagine a genuine "leftist" being in favor of Brexit. A vote for Brexit is a vote for FEAR.

Of course, I can remember when people felt terrible on this very board for the dreadful pay and working conditions of the "foreigners" making Kathy Lee's line of clothing. They had empathy for these people and felt they should be paid a decent wage for the work they did. Nowadays, it seems that some take the attitude that "Those bums are taking JOBS that could be OURS!" Like Americans 'aspire' to be hunched over a sewing machine for ten hours a day....

I just don't understand some of these shifts and twists in POV, lately--they're troubling. When a tribal/clannish/protectionist attitude comes into the equation, there's cause for concern, I think.

I watch Trump with the sound down, and he looks so much like Mussolini (save that Mussolini was a more attractive man--not that he was any world beater) that it's scary.

I guess it's plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...but then, all those LEAVE voters won't have to worry about translating any of that French stuff anymore, now, will they (LOL).

[NuclearDem]

47. The far right has "they terk er jerbs"

and the far left has "immigrants are depressing our wages."

Same racist bullshit, just worded slightly differently.

[swhisper1]

33. it is very old

[Marr]

50. You're right, it's tired and was never very convincing.

I mean, really...? The left is against free trade because they're racist? Only an idiot could take that seriously.

It's basically like saying, 'give me a dollar or you hate puppies'.

[whathehell]

128. +:10 n/t

[YoungDemCA]

143. Nah, more like the left is against free trade because many of them are economically illiterate

If you want an easy laugh, tell anyone who actually studies economics that you oppose free trade.

[fleabiscuit]

122. It's built right into our system and displayed everyday. nt

[Hoyt]

40. Exactly.

[niyad]

9. k and r

[Surya Gayatri]

12. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting. So spot on.

[Straw Man]

22. Xenophobia and racism are the dark side of populism.

They are also a symptom of the status quo being sick. The Nazi Party could never have risen to power in Weimar Germany if the economy had been hunky-dory.

I'm not saying that Brexit was a solution, but it's clear that there is a problem.

[YoungDemCA]

146. Good post.

nt

[Straw Man]

149. Thank you. nt

[pampango]

24. True. And the U.K. has much less immigration than Ireland which is content with EU

membership. Interesting to speculate on why so many Brits fixate on immigrants as the cause of their problems when the Irish, who are certainly no better off, don't do the same.

[Rex]

26. David Cameron is an idiot, this should have never left committee.

I can't believe this came up for a vote.

[auntpurl]

30. He had to.

He made a promise to do it during the GE in 2015. It was to shut up the Euro-phobes in his own party. He was arrogant enough to think it would go like the Scottish Independence referendum.

And now his career is over and he will go down as probably the most disgraced politician in UK history.

[Rex]

35. I am sorry you have-had a Trump like idiot as PM.

Maybe they can walk back the vote, it was such a stupid thing to do.

[auntpurl]

41. He's not Trump-like

He's not a fascist, like Farage, Trump, Putin, or Le Pen. He's a regular old Conservative with a superiority complex. But he's just realised that the fascists have played him like a f*cking fiddle.

[Rex]

49. Hoisted by his own petard.

I hope your Labour Party roasts the Tories over this. Never let them forget they sided with fascists.

[auntpurl]

52. It would be brilliant if we had an opposition party to speak of

Unfortunately, the Labour leader Corbyn is about to face a vote of no confidence over his really quite tepid and ineffectual opposition to Brexit, and there's nobody else with any presence to lead. Be grateful you have so many good Democrats, seriously. An embarassment of riches.

[Rex]

56. That shocks me, I've always thought of British Parliament as having better common sense

then our American Congress. I did not know things have gotten so bad in the UK, but I do now and will pay more attention.

[MADem]

222. I have to say, from a distance, mind you, I've been less than impressed with him.

Far too quirky, and seemingly lazy. Personality seemed to loom larger than policy, and that's never a good look.

Let's hope some young firebrand comes to the fore, and soon, too.

[NuclearDem]

42. You're just shitposting now.

[auntpurl]

46. Yes. So tiresome.

[JonLeibowitz]

48. Thanks, I appreciate it.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

98. I think it's too soon to say Cameron will be the most disgraced politician in UK history

Boris Johnson hasn't had his chance yet.

[auntpurl]

99. Ah. Yes. Well played.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

100. When Boris is done he is probably going to end up in exile

Fortunately for him he is a US Citizen.

[Odin2005]

129. At this rate he'll be seen as the PM who destroyed the UK.

The Scots are likely to demand independence, now.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. I don't doubt this for a minute.

It's not that different from Trump and various white supremacist groups here trying to scare people - the Mexicans are going to take their jobs and the Muslims are all terrorist members of ISIS. That's what demagogues do - they acquire power by frightening the ignorant.

If I understand correctly, people from EU countries can enter other EU countries and live and work there legally. But very few Muslim immigrants are from EU countries - the EU immigrants into Britain are mostly from Poland, Portugal and Croatia. So why are the Leave supporters blaming the EU for the presence of Muslim immigrants? Was that just more fearmongering?

[auntpurl]

34. Because as a member of the EU, we are required to take a certain number of migrants.

But in a delicious irony, Brexit is very unlikely to reduce immigration:

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2016/05/18/think-brexit-would-mean-lower-immigration-think-again

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Thanks. So they really were fearmongering, then.

Here, the conservatives are in a rather similar bind: the nativists, like Trump and his minions, want to eliminate most immigration, especially from Mexico and Central America (and, of course, all Muslims). They also advocate deporting the approximately 12 million undocumented immigrants that are already here. But the capitalists don't want that because they'd lose the benefit of all that cheap labor - undocumented immigrants are essential to the agriculture, hospitality and construction industries; employers can get away with underpaying and exploiting them. Without them we'd have to pay more for food, restaurants and hotels and construction. Sounds like something like that is going on in Britain, too.

People suck everywhere...

[auntpurl]

55. Oh yes.

In Britain, it's care work. One in 5 care workers are from the EU, with an increasingly aging population. And that aging population who will need care, in ANOTHER delicious irony, have just voted against EU workers coming into the country. It defies belief, really.

[alarimer]

103. That is far too simplistic an answer

Blame it all on racism and you don't actually have to do anything about the very real conditions out there that are ruining lives: the job losses, the lack of decent benefits for such jobs as exist, the endless dog-whistles. There has been a concerted effort to pit people against one another. It was the Republicans' Southern Solution. It is too simple to say "Well, these people are just racist assholes, we don't need them." In fact that is incredibly dangerous.

How do you think the fascists ever got a foothold? People were fucking starving.

I really can't stand all these so-called progressives' willingness to write off millions of people.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

104. Thatcherism and the austerity measures of Britain and other EU countries

set the stage. People wouldn't be so outraged about immigration if the economy were more stable and there were plenty of jobs for everyone, but the politicians have demagogued the problem so as to blame the immigrants (just as the right wing blames immigrants here). They encourage xenophobia and racism to get the results they want.

Nobody is writing off millions of people, but racism easily takes hold in situations where scapegoats are needed.

[840high]

111. Thank you +100

[fleabiscuit]

125. So you're saying they never had to compete with people who weren't like them before. nt

[alarimer]

213. Well, at least here in the US, there was a concerted effort to pit people against one another

And I would imagine it happened elsewhere as well.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket." Lyndon Baines Johnson.

So racist dog-whistle politics are all about distracting people from the main culprit- the powers that be. Poorly educated and ill-informed people are unfortunately easy to manipulate.

[larkrake]

171. thank you for reason, there is a hysteria trumpeted by corporate news

[guillaumeb]

45. Gladly recommended.

And that xenophobia is echoed in the US by many, if not most, Trump supporters. And that xenophobia is matched by the ignorance of issues common to Trump and Brexit supporters. They are angry and ignorant, and their ignorance makes them easy to manipulate by fascists like Trump and Johnson.

[auntpurl]

57. Let us now take a moment to appreciate representative government

Imagine putting every economic policy the US faced up for a general population referendum. How knowledgable and informed do you think the average voter is about economics?

[guillaumeb]

60. Agreed.

How knowledgeable do you think the average Republican Congressperson is about economics?

But they are aware of who their major contributors are.

[auntpurl]

61. You got me there.

[fleabiscuit]

126. Non sequitur. They are still responsible for voting. And they face reelection. eom

[roamer65]

54. I wouldn't worry too much, auntpurl.

No UK politician has the guts to invoke the Lisbon Treaty's Article 50. I think you folks are in for lengthy and painful negotiations surrounding Britain's redefined role in the EU. Then you will get stuck with another referendum.

Before long you will be calling it the Neverendum.

Things are going to get even more fun with the 3rd Greek bailout, which will be coming very soon.

[auntpurl]

58. I do hope you are right.

We could approach it with the quintessential British response of "faff around until no one remembers what we were on about in the first place".

The EU, though, has just about had it with the UK and is pushing for resolution.

On the other hand, the actual Leave campaign are actually backing away from all of this ALREADY. Of course the market's still in freefall so that helps.

We shall see.

But I will put your post under my pillow and pray to it every night.

[roamer65]

68. In a few months with the next Greek bailout and European banking crisis...

this chapter of the "EU death watch" will be into the history books, auntpurl.

As much as you may dislike Farage, he is right on one point. The Euro is a "straightjacket" that is killing the PIIGS. Those 5 countries need to come out of the Eurozone, re-establish their national currencies and devalue them to become competitive. If they do not, violent revolution will become inevitable. I predict either Portugal or Spain will soon join Greece in the "unstable" column.

The Euro will go down into future history books as a case study of why political union needs to happen before currency union. The United States did not have a single currency until the Currency Act of 1857. That is when we decreed the dollar to be sole legal tender.

As John F Kennedy said, "Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."

[jack_krass]

62. Nope, it wasnt. The fact that a few xenophobic yahoos exists does not

Support your premise.

[auntpurl]

64. Oh, a few?

Do you live here? Do you think I am lying about what I see and feel and hear, in this country?

[jack_krass]

120. No, but I travel there frequently, and have daily contact with many people there. I dont doubt

Anything about your circumstances, but I do question whether your dataset is large and/or diverse enough to be statistically significant .

I know enough english people, and know them well enough to say that labeling half the population as racist xenophobes is absurd.

[auntpurl]

151. There are English people ON THIS VERY THREAD telling you you're wrong.

Also, GOOD MORNING! Here's some piping hot xenophobia, fresh off the presses!


West Midlands, yesterday Banner says "Rapefugees not welcome."

[jack_krass]

178. Look, I dont doubt that the UK ultra right has attached itself to the "leave" movement.

That means you'd be able to show me pictures of hundreds of thousands of individual yahoos if you wanted (no need, please dont bother), but they are NOT the majority, or the driving force behind it.

I simply refuse to believe that tens of millions of the English are racist xenophobes.. Nor do I buy that they are :
-stupid
-ignorant
-undereducated
-hypmotized
-being fooled by the media

[auntpurl]

179. Okey doke! nt

[drray23]

95. A few ?? Are you european or British ?

I was born in France, I am a dual citizen (american-french) and now live in the US. I have observed the same phenomenon in France over the past decade or so. The rise of the right wing. In France, its the le pen 's (was jean-marie, now his daughter marine).
It has slowly seeped into the society. Even some of my own family members have disgusting xenophobic rants on facebook.
I have zero doubts that what auntpurl is saying is correct. I have visited the UK more than once, have friends living there and am following the politics by reading their newspapers online quite often.

This brexit was fueled by Xenophobia. Farage UKIP's party and Johnson (mainly Farage) have managed to blame the economic woes on immigrants and it worked.

The consequences of the brexit will be huge. One simple example that I know very well:

The UK is a member state of the CERN (the research center in france/switzerland). As such, they contribute to its budget. In return they carry out experiments and have scientists posted there. A full 25 % of the entire physics research budget in the UK comes from EU subsidies to the UK research. They can now kiss goodbye to this. There are also significant EU contributions for young british researchers (postdoctoral positions and such) which are going to disappear. The day after the election, I got a phone call from one of my former student, now a postdoc at cambridge asking me if I had a position back in the US for him..

Here is an article in Physics today which summarizes that situation:

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/news/10.1063/PT.5.1078;jsessionid=F5P-iZfDsLZgJcXL0YfndD67.x-aip-live-02

[auntpurl]

101. Medical research will be hard hit as well

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/20/brexit-could-cost-uk-science-millions-in-lost-research-funding-peers-warn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/02/lord-darzi-leaving-the-eu-would-be-disastrous-for-uk-science-and/

Le Pen currently has a union jack as her Twitter avatar.

[runaway hero]

63. So we're against democracy now?

They voted. It's over. Let it go.

[auntpurl]

65. Are we against putting complicated economic policy up for a general population referendum?

WE BLOODY WELL SHOULD BE.

[runaway hero]

69. This is extremly unfair

I don't agree with the result, but I don't agree with your op...


I mean, you're calling people stupid. Should we have a poll tax now for the working class.

We need to get people jobs.

[CountAllVotes]

71. It is unfair

There are many other aspects to this that are not being addressed.

I've got my citizenship papers too btw.

[runaway hero]

78. The achievement gap is getting too big.

[auntpurl]

73. No, I'm talking about uneducated people (that is based on polling, not my opinion)

there was a strong correlation between education level and how people voted.

So, uneducated people who were manipulated by the media and politicians who lied to them so blatantly that they were on TV this MORNING taking back the promises they'd made.

This is EXACTLY why we have representative government. Do you think you know enough about economics to decide how the UK should structure its trade with the EU? Because that, in essence, is what this referendum was about. It was sold to the general population as "GET THE MUSLIMS OUT" but the EU at its essence is about trade and free movement.

Even if you yourself do feel you know enough to make a knowledgable decision, do you think most voters do? Do you want Trump voters deciding in an up-down general referendum how we structure our trade deal with Mexico?

[runaway hero]

77. Of course they were

But this happens all the time. We need to address why the north of england and wales voted for brexit. Those are the areas worst hit by globalization.

[auntpurl]

176. Oh good, you're back.

Enjoy your short stay.

[Denzil_DC]

184. I think we need to set up a DU Group for all the Name Removeds

They seem, for some reason, particularly animated by this issue, and it's a shame they can't just gibber at each other somewhere safe rather than having to slink away butthurt because their freedom of speech has been curtailed by the mean old mods and they can't read forum rules before they click through.

Mind you, it could all just be one very committed Name Removed. I found myself conversing with thin air twice yesterday, and they came out with the same claptrap in practically the same words. I missed another one just now who evidently felt I needed a talking to on another thread but was *poofed* before I could read whatever it was.

[auntpurl]

186. Such a shame; they probably had invaluable words of wisdom

for you.

Seriously, three cheers for MIRT. Their job is thankless and they do it SO well.

[Stinky The Clown]

75. They were FUCKING LIED TO

THEY WERE TOO LAZY TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY WERE VOTING FOR.

THE POLITICIANS (all right wingers) ADMITTED THEY LIED. They fucking AD MIT TED IT.

GeezusFuckingKeristOnAFuckingTrailerHitch. what part of that is unclear to you?

[davidn3600]

76. ALL POLITICIANS LIE!!!

Any experienced voter knows this.

[Stinky The Clown]

97. Serious question: Do YOU know what the lie was that was admitted to the morning after the vote?

Serious question.

And if you don't, we're done and your comment to me was a throwaway. If you DO know and you made that comment, you're pretty tolerant of lies.

[YoungDemCA]

144. If "democracy" equals racist bullshit convincing the public to vote against their own interests

than yes, I suppose we are - or we should be, at the very least.

Not everything should be up for a vote.

[runaway hero]

182. That's too bad then

At some point, people are going to realize if you can't sell how the government works for you, then it's your fault. Maybe stop supporting all these neoliberal and third way polices.

[Number23]

225. LOL! Is the Third Way international now?? I guess we should have known, considering that they are

responsible for all the world's other evils!

[runaway hero]

236. I gues you're going to tell me

That the voters are stupid. Do you know every single person to be racist or no?

[Number23]

242. Every bit as reasonable and informed as your post screaming about the Third Way as if it has

anything whatsoever to do with the Brexit.

[runaway hero]

243. really?

You really think every single voter is racist.

[youceyec]

80. This was absolutely about

Xenophobia and racism. Crimes and especially harassment against minorities will now skyrocket. Internment camps are next. And far worse after. The seeds for WWWIII were sown on June 23 2016 and once again it will be because vile nationalism succeeded.

[auntpurl]

82. Probably. And in the meantime

Comment from the Guardian:

[youceyec]

240. It has started, Hate Crimes Spike

http://abcnews.go.com/International/hate-crimes-spike-uk-brexit-vote/story?id=40164257

Terrible.

A neo Nazi party will soon start running candidates in the UK. Mark my words.

[perdita9]

81. High levels of immigration equal political instability

It isn't always about racism. A huge influx of new people into a systems strains services and causes social unrest.

The EU knew this and shouldn't have pushed so hard. That they did so pretty much guaranteed a backlash.

[auntpurl]

84. Oh, rubbish.

The "strain" on services from migrants is a drop in the bucket compared to the strain caused by an aging population, most of whom just voted to Leave.

And London, where most immigrants end up so should be showing signs of the "social unrest" you assert, just voted in huge numbers to Remain.

[perdita9]

112. You think pro Nazi hate groups are rising for no reason?

The high levers of immigration are driving that.

Look, I'm not anti-immigrant, but when the system is perceived as being out-of-control, there are political ramifications.

[auntpurl]

160. Again, rubbish

Places in the UK that voted in highest numbers to Leave have the fewest immigrants. It has nothing to do with immigration itself. It has everything to do with the demonisation and blame for everything wrong of immigrants (and the EU) by the media.

[TubbersUK]

105. There doesn't seem to be any correlation

between the strength of the Brexit vote and the concentration of immigrants.

Areas with relatively few immigrants showed some of the heaviest Brexit support.

ETA: and vice versa

[auntpurl]

166. There is a correlation, just a negative correlation.

Sorry, statistics nerd.

Still waiting for all that "social unrest" to show up in London. We've got the most immigrants, so it should be here any day, right?

[TubbersUK]

167. Ah, yes. Makes for an even stronger rebuttal - Thnx n/t

[840high]

114. Agreed.

[Jim Beard]

142. I approve of your statements!

[YoungDemCA]

147. Thanks for introducing the same talking points that were pioneered by white supremacist groups

We really needed more of that on DU.

[auntpurl]

158. Really.

[marlakay]

83. I didn't understand any of it until

John Oliver talked about it on his show last week.

I bet a bunch of Bush voters felt same way. Politcal trickery.

[auntpurl]

85. Absolute lies from beginning to end.

The backlash has already begun.



The Leave campaign had "£350 million to the NHS instead of the EU every week" on the side of its bus. Farage was on TV at 8:00am this morning saying that wasn't true and shouldn't have been said.

[Native]

197. Oliver's Brexit episode was fucking brilliant!

http://www.highsnobiety.com/2016/06/25/last-week-tonight-john-oliver-brexit/

[ananda]

87. Absolutely!

It was never a doubt in my mind.

[yurbud]

90. to the degree it was about anti-Muslim xenophobia, you would think EU nations...

would rethink supporting US foreign policy in the Middle East and North Africa that more or less guarantees a steady stream of refugees looking to get out of harms way.

Like the rednecks who support Trump, they know something is very wrong, and they can't quite identify the exact culprit, so they lash out at targets that already irritate them in some other way.

[Gumboot]

91. As an ashamed English expat living in Colorado...

... I had to explain the awful truth about this vote to my work colleagues many, many times on Friday.

I was still in shock, and so were they when I told them the 'Leave' voters were mostly racists & xenophobes, rather than people who had carefully weighed up the colossal pros and cons of their vote.

The economic ramifications of this are just staggering. Thinking how much inward investment England will lose, how many millions of foreign tourists will now think twice about visiting England.

But as ever, the elites got exactly what they wanted. A nation divided, and soon to be stripped of those vital EU employment, financial & environmental protections we've had for 40+ years.

[auntpurl]

94. I'm so sorry.

We're in opposite positions - you in the US and me (as an American) in the UK. Yet I share your despair. England (and frankly, it WAS England, in the main) has just become a smaller, sadder, more insular, less welcoming, and ultimately more irrelevant country.

[truebrit71]

116. I was in the same boat. Never been more ashamed of my home country.

The vast majority of the 'Leavers' thought that this would be a simple way to "make Britain great again" (sound familiar?) and the NHS would be saved and immigration would stop, even though BOTH of those issues have been exacerbated by the Tory austerity policies.

None of them figured it would be any more complex than that, they never figured on the impact it would have on the currency, the markets, the economy, trade deals, travel restrictions None of it.

All of this because Cameron couldn't keep his back-benchers in line before last year's election.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

92. K&R nt

[Efilroft Sul]

96. The Brexit fools think "V for Vendetta" was a training manual.

England prevails!

Sorta, kinda, probably not.

[greatauntoftriplets]

102. Excellent post, auntpurl.

[DemonGoddess]

106. This is awful n/t

[Rex]

113. The side by side pics of actual Nazi propaganda film and Nigel Farage standing in front of that bus

sends a chill down my spine.

[truebrit71]

117. It is quite honestly, horrifying....

Millions of Brits sleep-walking into the abyss...

[Person 2713]

118. Yes , Victor, in Leeds: So the Remain campaign were telling the truth.

Oops didn't think so? Trusted UKIP?
Of course plenty in US think trump will make America great again

[auntpurl]

155. "So the Remain campaign were telling the truth" is going to be the tagline

of this whole sorry debacle.

[Odin2005]

119. This is some horrifying shit.

[mcar]

121. Your tutelage on this is invaluable

Thank you auntpurl.

[craigmatic]

124. People don't like trade deals especially if they feel like it costs them jobs. I guarantee you

that if we put NAFTA and the TPP up for national referendum here we'd get the same result.

[fleabiscuit]

127. And with a population about as well informed and with the same kind of racist feelings. eom

[craigmatic]

130. No because racism doesn't explain it all. I'd vote against NAFTA not because I hate Canada or Mexico

but because it took away 2 big local factories from my area and transformed it into a place mostly dependent on welfare. It's sad what's happened to my neighbors here.

[fleabiscuit]

133. What you're saying is that those factories were not dependent on location.

And that if they had not shut down they would not have faced competition?

[craigmatic]

134. This is in the south (GA and AL) and it happened in 1990's. NAFTA still hurried the process along.

[fleabiscuit]

136. Well fellow global citizen, we have new challenges. Onward! eom

[YoungDemCA]

145. People don't like trade deals because they are economically illiterate racists

It's telling that Donald Trump doesn't like free trade, and neither do his supporters.

[larkrake]

169. what??? are you insane??? this country is decimated and crippled by nafta

[craigmatic]

181. People can not like free trade and still not be racist. Free trade is just a policy. Now once

you start saying something negative about different races of people then you're racist. Most people are just angry about the loss of jobs that these free trade deals bring.

[runaway hero]

183. Stop promoting neoliberalism/neoconservatism.

not progressive, or even part of the democractic agenda.

[larkrake]

156. absolutely

[Lithos]

135. No, it's not about that

It's about making Britain Great again... yes, there is a huge stain of xenophobia in there, but it's a message designed to play upon the nostalgia of better times that carried this thru. This is a reactionary message which the Pukes play time and time again to bring back some golden time where things "just worked".

The world is complicated and it is an message of demagogues and fascists to push to those who care for a "too simple" explanation.

L-

[auntpurl]

157. You're right, it's that too.

And also the xenophobia. This morning:


West Midlands. Banner says "Rapefugees not welcome".

[Hekate]

137. THANK YOU for your informative posts, Aunt Purl

The baseless opinions here are beyond awful.

[applegrove]

148. The people who voted to leave had been left alone to wither due to austerity.

This was due to the banking crisis. Due to not enough banking regulations. Due to neoliberalism. Of course when the economy collapses for a decade people will suffer, their backs will be against the wall and they'll not want to face massive immigration from the EU. Of course when they are afraid they'll see color. But why didn't they have an iron in the fire? Why didn't they care about being part of the EU? Because of the banking crisis, they saw no prosperity for a decade. If there had been a moderate sized financial bubble, in a few years the economies would have been back on track. But instead the bubble was enormous.

[larkrake]

159. poo, it is not the only reason. Other countries want out too. Control of borders is vital to the

survival of a nation's work force. EU has been a mess accelerating to a disaster. If it isn't reformed, it will break up completely

[auntpurl]

162. Other countries have the same media demonisation of immigrants as the UK

The UK DOES have control of borders. For heaven's sake.

[larkrake]

168. so do we,it's the norm,so we have to look at why so many members want to leave

it is not the immigrant problem, it goes much deeper.

[joshcryer]

161. That this had to be said is depressing.

UKIP used the leave campaign to strip Brits of their labor rights.

[auntpurl]

163. And LOADS of other things too.

[lupinella]

185. K&R

Farage & The Daily Mail ardently backed it - arguing that it was anything other than a vote inspired by xenophobia is naive.

Urban areas outside of London (Manchester, Leeds & Cardiff) voted Remain. The Welsh/English rural/suburban vote went overwhelmingly Leave. (The one area that surprised me was Birmingham)

It feels as if Thatcherite o.a.p.'s are getting one last vitriolic hurrah - at the expense of everyone.

Labour needs to get a figure they can rally behind who is able to communicate their message effectively & passionately. Corbyn is not that person.

This whole mess makes me wish "The Thick of It" was still on, simply to let the black comedy dull the pain.

[OrwellwasRight]

187. Yes, let's call names, insult people, and paint with a broad brush.

Rather than looking at the causes of the dissatisfaction:



If we just blame the ignorant racists, we don't have to examine or change the system. How convenient for those who do well under the current system. How inconvenient for those of us in the trenches actually trying to persuade voters that Clinton's economics will be good for them.

[auntpurl]

190. I don't blame them

They are, by definition, ignorant.

I blame Cameron for being stupid and arrogant enough to put complicated economic policy up for a general population referendum as a form of dick-measuring contest with the Euro-phobes in his own party.

I blame years and years of toxic media blaming immigrants, POC, and the EU for every single thing that is wrong with the UK. I blame the Leave campaign who used the media to whip the xenophobes into a terrorised frenzy that the "others" were coming for their jobs, their services, and probably to make violence.

I blame Thatcher for decimating manufacturing jobs and the unions.

And I blame the Remain campaign for doing a truly shit job of explaining why this result will be catastrophic. As well as Labour for not providing any counterpunch with spine.

None of that changes the point of my OP, which is that xenophobia drove the result and has now given a platform and empowerment to violent racists.

[OrwellwasRight]

193. And yet you still blame the "ignorant."

No.

Many people, of many colors, ethnicities, nationalities, and backgrounds, have seriously, honestly, actually been screwed by a system rigged for the 1%. Until we stop talking down to them, by saying things "I understand you feel left out," and instead say we must reform the system that purposely left you out and redistributed income upward, we won't get anywhere.

But sure, yeah, it's all entirely 100% the fault of the ignorant racists. The system is perfect!!! Yay!!!!

[auntpurl]

194. Take another run at reading my post.

I very clearly stated I don't blame them. I stated exactly who I blame.

[OrwellwasRight]

195. And then you undid it all with yout last line

which stated that reiterate everything in your original post about it all being down to the racist, the xenophobic, the ignorant. I'm not sure you can have it both ways.

If you truly blame Thatcher, then work to undo her horrible economic agenda instead of calling everyone you disagree with xenophobic. I don't think ad hominem is more helpful that trying to change the system, but to each their own.

[auntpurl]

196. Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you still don't understand what I said.

The vote went the way it did because of xenophobia, but it is not the fault of ignorant people who have xenophobia shoved down their throats every day by the media and fascist politicians.

You can try as hard as you can to make this an economic issue, but it wasn't, not in the sense of people voting directly to control their own economic destinies.

But I'm not going to argue with you. I'll let you have the last word.

[OrwellwasRight]

198. Yes, yes, you'll let me have the last word

By posting last. That's an awesome tactic I will learn from!

I just think writing off 51% of Britons as xenophobic is not only incorrect, it's insulting, and more to the point, doesn't advance an positive agenda or fix any problem you give lip service too (like lack of manufacturing base and union busting).

But if you think you can get a better Britain by writing off more than half your neighbors as xenophobes, good luck with that tactic.

[Adrahil]

188. Nah! Neo-liberals! 1%! Elites!

[runaway hero]

244. are you one of them?

[Adrahil]

245. A 1%er? I wish.

AS top neo-liberal? Who knows!? Certain folks seem to apply that label to anyone they want to demonize.

[runaway hero]

246. I like this

great answer man!!

[JudasTheGrass]

189. Britain and the West is fucked anyway......

Whichever way the vote went it doesn't matter Britain and the West is screwed anyway.

[Spazito]

191. Why do you think that? n/t

[uppityperson]

199. Welcome to DU. What do you mean?

[Beacool]

192. Leave voters = Trump voters

Same rhetoric. Fear mongering and blaming immigrants is nothing new in economic downturns when people and politicians need a scapegoat.

The irony in this case, though, is that most of the immigrants they were objecting to were fellow Europeans. Particularly those coming from Eastern Europe.

[clarice]

202. When all of the spin, rhetoric, and hand wringing are done.....

Isn't it a simple matter of majority opinion voicing that they no longer want to be a part of an ineffective
alliance? Why is this issue causing palpitations among many progressives? Someone please connect the dots.

[clarice]

205. And now that I think about your OP.......

How insolent and presupposing is it to throw out the "xenophobia card" , simply because you disagree with the people's vote.

[auntpurl]

208. ok. nt

[clarice]

212. No...not ok.... please explain your reasoning.... you can't just....

throw out a demeaning epithet like "xenophobia" unless you have empirical proof that this was the issue.
I'm sorry, but I am calling you out on this,

[auntpurl]

214. ok. nt

[Denzil_DC]

218. You'll need to call out pretty much every UK DU member as well, then.

We're quaking in fear at the prospect.

We live here. You don't. But you know best. Okeydokey.

[MADem]

221. You might want to tell NPR how much you disapprove, too.

They've got the same POV:

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/06/25/483362200/brexit-whats-race-got-to-do-with-it

The campaign to get the U.K. to leave the EU (also known as the "Leave" campaign) was spearheaded by the right-wing, populist UK Independence Party, or UKIP. The party, led by Member in the European Parliament Nigel Farage, says that the EU "means the end of the UK as an independent, self-governing nation with its own government and its own borders."


For months, UKIP has fought for the United Kingdom's independence from the EU — some say by capitalizing on racially charged animus toward immigrants. In the Washington Post, writer Anyusha Rose points to the Leave campaign as evidence that in the U.K., "racism is no longer racism — it's legitimate opinion."

Areeq Chowdhury, a British writer and the founder of WebRoots Democracy, said last week that it's "important we remember that this is a referendum that has only been made possible due to a long, hard-fought campaign by those on the far-right and political movements ridden with allegations of bigotry, xenophobia, and racism." He continues:

"

Nigel Farage — the UKIP leader who once said that his party 'would never win the n-gger vote,' refers to Chinese takeaways as 'a chinky,' and said people would feel 'concerned' to live next to Romanians — is the man who should take a significant chunk of the credit for us having this referendum. It was his party's success in the European Parliament elections, as well as defections which he brokered from the Conservative Party, which has led us to this point today."

Zack Beauchamp over at Vox writes that the UKIP has spent the past 10 years "focusing, obsessively, on the threat from immigrants, from both inside the EU and out."

Washington Post is saying the same thing:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/the-uncomfortable-question-was-the-brexit-vote-based-on-racism/
The uncomfortable question: Was the Brexit vote based on racism?

...In the run up to the E.U. referendum, the official "leave" campaign initially tried to focus on sovereignty and economic issues. However, polls clearly showed that immigration was one of the most, if not the most, important factor for voters. “Immigration is by far the best issue for the ‘Leave’ campaign,” Freddie Sayers, editor in chief of the polling firm YouGov, wrote. “If the coming referendum were only a decision on immigration, the Leave campaign would win by a landslide.”

So gradually, Boris Johnson and other prominent faces in the campaign began to talk more negatively about immigration.

In the heated atmosphere before the election, the lines between anti-immigration rhetoric and pure racism became blurry. Just a week before the election Farage, who was not a member of the official "leave" campaign but ran his own movement, unveiled an advertising campaign that showed a crowd of refugees and migrants. Many critics noted that it resembled propaganda put out by Nazi Germany. To make matters worse, the very next day British member of Parliament Jo Cox was killed. The man alleged to have shot and stabbed Cox, a pro-"remain" campaigner and supporter of refugees, is said to have shouted "Britain first" and had links to U.S. white-supremacy groups.

Despite a backlash to this rhetoric, when voting day came around, more British citizens chose to leave the E.U. than stay. They did so against the advice of the majority of the country's politicians and many experts from around the world, who said the country's political and economic standing would be deeply hurt. Some experts suggest the explanation for that decision has to at least partly be put down to racism and xenophobia.

“There isn’t anything subtle about this sort of campaigning, it’s comparable to Nazi propaganda and just straightforwardly racist,” David Gillborn, a race relations expert at the British University of Birmingham, told the Associated Press of Farage's campaigning. “The fact that people could have voted for this despite the crudest representations of racism is quite astonishing.”.....

[lib87]

215. Rec'd

I just read there has been an increase in hate crimes in England too.

[Number23]

223. We are SO on the same page! I posted something extremely similar on this in the AA forum

Any "leftist" that thinks that this is a win for progressives or the left needs to be quiet because they TRULY have no damn clue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=54352

[TubbersUK]

228. + 100000000000

[JustAnotherGen]

229. The greater arrogance

Is the idea that it correlates to the U.S. issues - or is a reflection of America. It's not always about us. And, it was neither a win nor a loss for any political party or ideology in the U.S.. I'm just in awe at the number of Americans who also speak over people living in the UK. That's as irritating as someone on the West Coast trying to tell me my little town in Central NJ should be for legalizing marijuana instead of trying to create a new Beer/Wine at table liquor license . . .because they knew someone who lived here once. Same level of arrogance.

[Number23]

241. We got somebody hollering about the Third Way in a thread about Brexit!

These folks go out of their way to prove they have no understanding. About ANYTHING.

[Number23]

224. As one Brit guy so perfectly said, the main folks cheering this are Putin, Trump and ISIS

That should tell everyone all they FUCKING NEED TO KNOW about how "liberal" and "progressive" Brexit and the Leave campaign were.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-27/a-catastrophically-stupid-decision-alistair/7545826

[still_one]

226. but, but, it doesn't fit the glen greenwald and others narrative

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=127191

[modem77]

231. So if people don't support open borders then they are xenophobes and racists?

[auntpurl]

232. I just...can't anymore.

Sure, whatever you say.

[Denzil_DC]

234. There's really no reason you should have to.

This has been addressed over and over and over again for days every time somebody's glibly trotted it out.

If this johnny-come-lately can't be bothered to read up the various threads where that's happened, then why waste energy on it?

[auntpurl]

235. I think it might be time for a little DU break, until the US forgets about Brexit

in like 2 more days. So a total of 4 days spent on it attention-wise from the Americans, and all of us over here can then get on with the business of dealing with this new reality.

As an American in the UK, this has been the clearest example so far about why so much of the rest of the world thinks Americans are clueless and arrogant when it comes to understanding "foreign policy". I'm tired of arguing with people who have no idea what happened here, and want to twist it to make some political point that aligns with their current cause du jour.

I'll see you in a bit, my friend. Think I will stick to the UK forum when I want to discuss this issue going forward. This is exhausting and pointless.

[Denzil_DC]

237. I can completely understand that,

and you've been going well beyond the call of duty. It is exhausting. I find myself having to be really disciplined in what fights I pick! Not to mention teeth-grittingly patient.

Yes, we have a decent haven there at the moment. At least we don't have to keep starting from scratch with some of these arguments over and over again.

We'll still find plenty to disagree about over there, of course! I've made a little start this morning ... Take whatever time out you may need. You'll be missed, and very welcome back whenever.