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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:29 AM Jun 2016

A lot of people here experienced the Good Old Days very differently than my family did, I guess

In the 1970s, when I was a kid, both of my parents had Masters degrees. My dad worked (when he could find it) as a janitor and my mom (when she could find it) as a secretary. I didn't realize it at the time, but the "park the car" game my dad would force a smile while "playing" with me was to keep the repo man from finding it, and the whole thing about "lending my friend our TV for a week" was so the bankruptcy assessor wouldn't see it.

The South was a fucking pit of despair back then. No jobs. No economic activity. Half of the stores on main street were boarded up, and the other half were only open because their owners would be bored sitting at home all day. My mom had a teaching certificate but the public schools had a decade-long hiring freeze, and the private schools reserved their teaching slots for country club wives.

Starting in the mid 1990s (pretty much right after I bailed out of that place) things started to turn around. A car factory opened two towns over. The clothing factory that had sputtered through the 70s and 80s started increasing shifts for the first time in 20 years, and even hiring new hands. Caterpillar increased shifts (I think this had something to do with the car factory; they were making parts with the spare production or something). My parents could get jobs that actually required their Masters degrees.

When I came back in the 2000s, the town was barely recognizable. Every store on main street was open. The old art deco hotel that had boarded up in the 60s was back open. Businesses were hiring. People were making money and spending it.

I absolutely do not have the positive memories of the "old economy" that a lot of people here do, and I bristle when I hear nostalgia for a time that, at least from my perspective, was absolutely horrible.

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A lot of people here experienced the Good Old Days very differently than my family did, I guess (Original Post) Recursion Jun 2016 OP
Thank you for sharing this ... NanceGreggs Jun 2016 #1
If you were a child in the seventies (I was a starving adult) you were in the throes of MADem Jun 2016 #2
Oh I remember it very well, but I stayed here in the US. tonyt53 Jun 2016 #77
They're looking at the past through privilege-colored glasses YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #3
and watching reruns of 50-70's TV... Wounded Bear Jun 2016 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #105
Union Busting alain2112 Jun 2016 #4
So, what, were we just supposed to wait around with no jobs forever? Recursion Jun 2016 #5
For starters, you could understand what happened alain2112 Jun 2016 #7
You said exactly what I was thinking when I read the OP. Brickbat Jun 2016 #24
Thanks alain2112 Jun 2016 #74
Again, well said -- and welcome to DU. Brickbat Jun 2016 #78
You're pushing the old Socialist bugaboo MohRokTah Jun 2016 #34
I think they were talking about unions, not socialism. John Poet Jun 2016 #45
For the most part, Unions are becoming a failed system as well. MohRokTah Jun 2016 #49
AFL-CIO’s Trumka: USTR Told Us Murder Isn’t A Violation Under U.S. Trade Deals think Jun 2016 #54
Your repsonse has precisely nothing to do with my post. eom MohRokTah Jun 2016 #57
Ya. Right.... think Jun 2016 #60
I'm glad we now agree, your post had nothing to do with mine. Thank you. eom MohRokTah Jun 2016 #65
Keep telling yourself that... think Jun 2016 #67
Since you told me that, there is no need for me to tell me that. eom MohRokTah Jun 2016 #72
You blame the unions and ignore the murder just like the trade deals do. How quaint.... think Jun 2016 #64
I did nothing of the sort... MohRokTah Jun 2016 #66
The unions are failing because we send our jobs to countries where union leaders are murdered. think Jun 2016 #68
Now that is complete baloney. eom MohRokTah Jun 2016 #73
Sounds like guilds. Igel Jun 2016 #75
"unions kept their localized focus"? OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #99
Figure out how to create jobs, rather than take them from the North? SMC22307 Jun 2016 #89
Of course not kcr Jun 2016 #100
Never had that problem in my father's Union... they busted up the 'busters' at Turkey Point Nuclear Ghost in the Machine Jun 2016 #44
I very much hope those responsible spent the rest of their lives in prison. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #91
These are stories that I heard when I was growing up. I neither condoned, nor condemned them, Ghost in the Machine Jun 2016 #106
Interesting Scootaloo Jun 2016 #6
Thanks for the story alain2112 Jun 2016 #71
Well said. Posts like the OP do nothing but advertise ignorance of others' experiences. nt vintx Jun 2016 #86
I have heard no one say they want to go back to the 1970's. No one! yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #8
Of course you do. That's the "neoliberalism" talk Recursion Jun 2016 #12
No. Nobody thinks that. Igel Jun 2016 #76
You're literally describing the opposite of neo-liberalism Recursion Jun 2016 #79
Only on the count of inflation Scootaloo Jun 2016 #84
No I'm pretty explicitly saying the Clinton era was, followed by today (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #101
The 70's was a great time, in entertainment. Archae Jun 2016 #32
Norfolk Va did that 1939 Jun 2016 #36
Seems like everybody did it. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2016 #94
Graphic and eloquent testimony to the dubious value of "back in the day" nostalgia. Thanks for this. Surya Gayatri Jun 2016 #9
Jerome K Jerome--The Idle Thoughts Of An Idle Fellow griloco Jun 2016 #10
So true treestar Jun 2016 #17
It's an astounding coincidence that the apogee of popular music was my senior year in college Recursion Jun 2016 #23
Wow jberryhill Jun 2016 #35
Similar story--I got ITOAIF from my uncle griloco Jun 2016 #87
Also true for me. Nt BainsBane Jun 2016 #11
The "GOD" Never Existed Night Watchman Jun 2016 #13
Sorry to hear that. Socal31 Jun 2016 #14
I have plenty of good feelings about my childhood in the 70's bhikkhu Jun 2016 #15
That's one of the reasons JustAnotherGen Jun 2016 #16
My mom lost two jobs in the 70's and we ended up with a diesel VW. ileus Jun 2016 #19
I don't think people are referring to the 70's as the "good ol' days" FLPanhandle Jun 2016 #20
OK, but the 50s and 60s economy was entirely based on keeping non-white non-male labor cheap Recursion Jun 2016 #21
That never went away. FLPanhandle Jun 2016 #22
Not to mention the U.S. Benefiting form much of the industrilaized world.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #25
Me too, and I think they'd all depress wages Recursion Jun 2016 #26
They'd depress wages in certain kinds of jobs.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #27
Sure but you can say that about everything. Recursion Jun 2016 #29
I do agree with that.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #30
Oh, hugely small-c "conservative", and I get that that's their job Recursion Jun 2016 #37
Agreed, comrade. forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #48
Anything other than a guaranteed income is just arranging deck chairs Recursion Jun 2016 #53
Let me add onto that forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #58
That's definitely a thought. I also like Germany's method Recursion Jun 2016 #59
Well my method is *specifically* a way to implement socialism forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #63
public investment doesn't depress wages OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #40
Depends. It certainly can. Recursion Jun 2016 #42
anecdotal. OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #46
For the 50% of the population that was alive 3 years later, they'd be up Recursion Jun 2016 #47
so all's well that ends well? OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #50
No, I'm saying raising wages isn't worth that Recursion Jun 2016 #52
I think I may understand where you are coming from. OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #93
No, you're still getting this backwards Recursion Jun 2016 #96
I don't think the OP knows what the Good Old Days means at all. Rex Jun 2016 #82
I remember the 50s and 60s, they weren't Happy Days for everyone doc03 Jun 2016 #28
The meme that really irks me is "a high school graduate could support a family of four" Recursion Jun 2016 #38
Irks me too. nt raccoon Jun 2016 #70
That was true here for the lucky ones that had family either in management or union positions doc03 Jun 2016 #80
When I see stories like this the first question I want to ask SheilaT Jun 2016 #31
And that was the lesson I took from my parent's decisions too Recursion Jun 2016 #33
So the issue isn't so much the '70s, but living in an area (the South)... SMC22307 Jun 2016 #85
I find it hard to work up a great deal of sympathy for people SheilaT Jun 2016 #107
Growing up in Dertoit (1940-1957) 1939 Jun 2016 #39
My mom talked about the family vacations they took in the 1950s Recursion Jun 2016 #41
Please note: piling in the car. Driving somewhere (to a National Park) and SheilaT Jun 2016 #98
thank you for posting that, one who was there. raccoon Jun 2016 #69
It was before they passed the Constitutional Amendment 1939 Jun 2016 #88
yeah, I grew up before that Constitutional Amendment too. nt raccoon Jun 2016 #90
I think that's the secret behind the paradox that real wages are much higher now Recursion Jun 2016 #104
I can't speak for everyone, nor would I try to. I also can't speak to your own situation. But silvershadow Jun 2016 #43
And this is what I'm trying to remember Recursion Jun 2016 #56
I grew up poor back in the '60's. Today is much better then back then. Kaleva Jun 2016 #51
As one who came out of active 4yr duty in the Navy in '64, I had a choice of three places to work... dmosh42 Jun 2016 #55
Maybe it IS the Good Old Days? yallerdawg Jun 2016 #61
that map does not bode well. Hiraeth Jun 2016 #97
Nixon and Ford were both hamfisted Republicans who thought 4% inflation was a holocaust Warpy Jun 2016 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author Rex Jun 2016 #81
My job was to answer the phone and lie to bill collectors REP Jun 2016 #83
For the first world, the good old days ended 8 years ago. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #92
A lot of people are suffering today, and a lot of people suffered then. DemocraticWing Jun 2016 #95
I see a lot of progress in this thread. nt fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #102
I never heard of the 70's referred to marybourg Jun 2016 #103
It depended on where you lived too. If you lived in some areas in FL there were no real jobs Seeinghope Jun 2016 #108

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. If you were a child in the seventies (I was a starving adult) you were in the throes of
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:41 AM
Jun 2016

"Whip Inflation Now."

Nixon instituted wage and price controls, which didn't help, and Ford came up with that Dumb Ass "WIN" idea--with buttons and stickers and "logo'd merchandise" and suggestions for growing your own vegetables to stretch your shitty paycheck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_inflation_now

No, I'm not joking.

I left the country so I missed a lot of that stuff, but I was around for the acid rain, the rusty cars, the rent going up and the paycheck not following suit, and I came back for a bit to experience the joys of ODD/EVEN gas rationing, then I left again.

It wasn't a great time back then--it was terrible.



 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
77. Oh I remember it very well, but I stayed here in the US.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:04 PM
Jun 2016

But I sure wish you hadn't brought up the WIN program. That program was about as smart as Gerald Ford was. Even though inflation was high at the end of the decade under Carter, at least wages were doing a pretty good job of keeping up with it.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
3. They're looking at the past through privilege-colored glasses
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:42 AM
Jun 2016

Best to try not to take it personally. That pining for the "Good Ole' Days" says more about them than it does about you.

Wounded Bear

(58,440 posts)
18. and watching reruns of 50-70's TV...
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:42 AM
Jun 2016

Lots of "life is good" TV shows, especially sitcoms in the Father Knows Best variety showing how good life was in the suburbs back then.

Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #3)

 

alain2112

(25 posts)
4. Union Busting
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:00 AM
Jun 2016

One component of the story to which you point us has to do with crushing the unions by shutting down the unionized factories in the North and sending the jobs to the anti-union South - as the first leg on the journey to ship them overseas in the search for absolute bottom dollare wages and utterly subservient workers.

After a lot of people were thrown out on the streets with no work, a lot of the remaining workers made the hard choice that it's better to have a crappy low wage unprotected non-union job than to have no job at all so they gave in and surrendered concessions to management - only to have the jobs yanked away anyhow after the last nickel had been squeezed out of the contract.

So there is a lot of anger and a lot of resentment over the great betrayal. Some of it gets directed and foreigners and some of it gets directed at immigrants, but it really needs to be directed upwards at the people who made the decisions and stole all the money.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
5. So, what, were we just supposed to wait around with no jobs forever?
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:07 AM
Jun 2016

What exactly were those of us in the South supposed to do? Picket the factories that were opening?

 

alain2112

(25 posts)
7. For starters, you could understand what happened
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:57 AM
Jun 2016

None of this was an accident and it didn't just happen. As you well know, Southerners did not magically become smarter and harder working - for no reason at all - at some random moment in the nineties. People are people, everywhere, and circumstances change for reasons that we can analyze.

If we are good and smart and lucky, we can work together to stymie the people who are trying to play the American workers - one off the other - and stop their plans to pick the pockets of us all.

Personally, that's what I want.

As to your specific question, I am happy for your town's good fortune but please remember that my town paid a price for your good fortune and my town carries a warning by example for what might happen to your town in its turn unless we are all very careful.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
24. You said exactly what I was thinking when I read the OP.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:16 AM
Jun 2016

Thanks for responding so well. The game is currently set up as a zero-sum game, even though it doesn't have to be. One group can't win without another group losing.

 

alain2112

(25 posts)
74. Thanks
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:46 PM
Jun 2016

In my understanding the economy is not zero sum, the GDP of America has doubled since 1970. The difficulty that makes it look like a zero sum game is that while the pie has become twice as large the working class pie slice remains exactly the same size - some are better off, most are worse off, and everyone is under tremendous pressure. "The Wealthy," however you define that category, has everything they had half a century ago - when they were already pretty damned wealthy - plus literally all the wealth that has been created since then.

That state of affairs is morally repugnant and it is economically inefficient, but the wealthy have been highly intelligent in the way that they hoovered up all the money and that makes it difficult for us to fight back. As we are seeing right here in this thread, it's not hard to set people at each others' throats.

Personally, yes, I think unions are an important part of the solution. I lived Scandinavia for many years, and when I tell Americans how well those people live - how freely, in terms of politics and in terms of economics - no one wants to believe me. As I see it the economies rest on a stable triad of interventionist government, activists unions, and efficient well regulated private sectors. Getting a reasonable facsimile for America will be quite difficult - I suspect that we will start with regions like New England that are already amenable, and spread out in something like an oil drop strategy - but it's absolutely worth doing.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
34. You're pushing the old Socialist bugaboo
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:46 AM
Jun 2016

"Workers of the world unite!"

It failed to take hold in the 30s and never got any closer since then.

Socialism is a globally failed ideology. It's time to move on. We live in a globalized world now and that is never going away.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
49. For the most part, Unions are becoming a failed system as well.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:31 AM
Jun 2016

The reason is fairly simple, Unions have kept their localized focus and have failed to adapt with the times as well. Like old brick and mortar book stores, if the unions continue down the path of a model set decades ago, they will all die out.

I am not against unions, but they must adapt or they will all die out.

Unions are uniquely capable of adapting to the gig economy as locals for labororers, electricians, carpenters, plumbers and pipefitters, and on and on, have always operated in localized gig economies. They just need to alter the capabilities to a more globalized fashion to provide human resources on demand as needed. In this way, Unions could both provide a highly skilled workforce on demand as needed anywhere in the world while providing nearly full time employment for all their members.

Instead, what you have are capitalistic based temporary agencies pulling in the slack. Instead of much of the money spent for on demand resources going to the workers, the owners are the ones profiting from this changing workplace dynamic. Unions are uniquely capable of competing against these agencies to provide lower costs to the companies seeking on demand resources while at the same time being capable of insuring higher pay to the workers they provide than the private agencies would ever be capable of doing.

So again, I am not opposed to unions. Unions are becoming responsible for their own failures, though, because they are not adapting to the ever changing workplace dynamics in a globalized economy.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
54. AFL-CIO’s Trumka: USTR Told Us Murder Isn’t A Violation Under U.S. Trade Deals
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jun 2016
AFL-CIO’s Trumka: USTR Told Us Murder Isn’t A Violation Under U.S. Trade Deals

By Michael McAuliff - 04/22/2015 07:32 am ET | Updated Apr 22, 2015

WASHINGTON — Defenders of the White House push for sweeping trade deals argue they include tough enforcement of labor standards. But a top union leader scoffed at such claims Tuesday, revealing that administration officials have said privately that they don’t consider even the killings of labor organizers to be violations of those pacts.

Richard Trumka, the president of the AFL-CIO, testified to that claim at a Senate Finance Committee hearing on legislation to grant President Barack Obama so-called fast-track authority to cut at least two new enormous trade agreements with Pacific Rim nations and the European Union. It appears to be the first time anyone has revealed such a stance on the part of a U.S. government that has been touting its efforts to improve wages and working conditions among its trading partners, relying in part on trade agreements.

But Trumka charged that the labor standards included in those trade deals are poorly enforced, and that before he would back the White House’s push for the Trans-Pacific Partnership or the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, he wanted to see tougher labor provisions that could be enforced...

Read more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/22/fast-track-trade_n_7113412.html


Guatemala: 68 Union Leaders Murdered before a Single Arrest

MARCELA ESTRADA JUNE 3, 2014 AT 2:19 PM

On Saturday, Guatemala’s Ministry of Justice announced the capture of three individuals responsible for the murder of trade unionist Carlos Hernández. Hernández was secretary of culture on the executive committee of the National Union of Health Workers, and one of many in the long list of trade unionists murdered each year in Guatemala.

The murder or disappearance of workers and trade union leaders in large numbers as a method of intimidation is ordinary in countries like Guatemala. Beyond the criminal act itself, it is the impunity that has become the most sensitive topic for the government, and particularly for President Otto Pérez Molina’s administration...

https://panampost.com/marcela-estrada/2014/06/03/guatemala-68-union-leaders-murdered-before-a-single-arrest/


Twenty trade union leaders murdered in the Philippines over the last decade

This latest murder follows that of Romy Almacin last month, who like Antonio Petalcorin – was executed in broad daylight by a masked individual on a motorbike.

A spokesperson for the trade union federation (ITF) said that:

Quote:
“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this cowardly slaughter of a man representing his members. We further condemn the continuing murders of other trade unionists, and the climate of impunity which is allowed to exist by the Philippines government. We offer our sincere condolences to the grieving family”.


There have been over 140 reported political killings in the Philippines under the presidency of Benigno Aquino – including a group of 30 journalists who were slaughtered by a group of masked gunmen. Other sources claim the real number of ‘political’ killings or disappearances to be around the 1,000 mark.

A list of trade unionists murdered in the Philippines since 2002:...

Read more:
https://libcom.org/blog/twenty-trade-union-leaders-murdered-philippines-over-last-decade-15072013


Death Stalks Colombia's Unions

Launched July 14, 2013

As Colombia struggles to free itself from a vortex of violence, union members, human rights activists and others still feel threatened by criminal elements––and their own government.

Since 1986, more than 2,800 labor leaders and union members have been killed in Colombia. In recent years this South American nation has led the world in this grim statistic. And more than 9 out of 10 of these cases remain unsolved.

Read more:
http://pulitzercenter.org/projects/south-america-colombia-labor-union-human-rights-judicial-government-corruption-paramilitary-drug-violence-education


 

think

(11,641 posts)
68. The unions are failing because we send our jobs to countries where union leaders are murdered.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jun 2016

You're not willing to see or admit it. Sad...

Igel

(35,197 posts)
75. Sounds like guilds.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:37 PM
Jun 2016

The problem with guilds, like with unions, is that they protect their own and only their own. They build fences, and fences mean gates.

There are ways into the guild, and there are gatekeepers. Every gatekeeper is a potential enemy to the outsider.

OrwellwasRight

(5,170 posts)
99. "unions kept their localized focus"?
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:22 PM
Jun 2016

This is just made up. Try doing research on regional, hemispheric, and international federations, international departments in national level unions.

Try looking at international conferences hosted and attended by unions.

Try looking at cross border cooperation to defend labor rights, raise wages, and support human rights.



You have no idea what you're talking about. But sure, feel free to bash unions. It makes you smart and cool.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
89. Figure out how to create jobs, rather than take them from the North?
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:10 PM
Jun 2016

You seem awfully cavalier about the demise of Rust Belt cities, kind of that "there are winners and losers in globalization" Nigel Farage mindset. I'm going to borrow the Mad Max reference from elsewhere in this thread -- that's what a good part of my hometown looks like now. Crime. Stately old homes crumbling and selling for $20K. A new pastor at my beautiful old church was told it's not safe to be out at night in that neighborhood, which makes me ill. It's obscene.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
100. Of course not
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:42 PM
Jun 2016

But, ass someone else already pointed out, this isn't a case of people fondly remembering a time that never was. I am also a child of the 70's/ early 80's and my experience of my hometown is the exact opposite of yours. I grew up in Flint, Michigan. Its fate and the fate of an entire region had consequences that rippled out and affected the entire country. It still does. I'm sure that southerners appreciated enjoyed those factory jobs while they had them, before continuing on their way to Mexico and I certainly don't blame them for what happened in Flint.

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
44. Never had that problem in my father's Union... they busted up the 'busters' at Turkey Point Nuclear
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:14 AM
Jun 2016

Plant, and many other Trade Union jobs around South Florida. The 'busters' got shown the door quickly... even though there were times that the elevator doors were opened, but no elevator there ( watch that first step!!!), or they 'fell' down the emergency stairwells, not to mention the clumsy ones who 'fell' from the Mezzanine Deck to the Lobby floor below...

Oh, I forgot, though... I have been told on here before that South Florida, and Miami in particular, weren't part of "The South".. carry on....

Peace,

Ghost

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
91. I very much hope those responsible spent the rest of their lives in prison.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:50 PM
Jun 2016

And I think the implicit approval you present it with is disgusting and shameful.

Ghost in the Machine

(14,912 posts)
106. These are stories that I heard when I was growing up. I neither condoned, nor condemned them,
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 04:30 AM
Jun 2016

I just related what I heard. Back in those days, I was in 2nd, 3rd or 4th grades so I was not personally involved. Back in those days, ALL of the Trade Unions stuck together, and nobody saw anything. The common answer was "hey, it's a construction site, people 'trip and fall' every day!" Bad things can happen when someone comes in and tries to take away your livelihood and/or reduce the standard of living in which you have become accustomed to

I've SEEN some things that happened to 'scabs' trying to cross picket lines, and it wasn't pretty, either. I got paid to stand on the picket line, but it wasn't near enough to pay my bills and feed my family. I never participated in any of the violent actions against the 'scabs' either, though.

In 1999, I was a foreman of a commercial roofing crew. We were doing a big 3 story building in Aiken, SC. As we were pulling into the jobsite one morning, I could plainly see ice on the metal decking that we had to work on. I told my crew that we were going to wait about an hour, since the sun was hitting it, and then it should be safe to go up. About 15 minutes after we got there, the jobsite superintendent came up to my work van and asked "why aren't you guys on the roof working yet?" I told him "there's too much ice right now, and it's unsafe. I will tell my crew when it's safe to get up there because their safety is MY responsibility."

He began threatening to throw us off of the job and was going to call our main office. I told him "I'll save you the trouble" and called the office myself & explained the situation. My boss supported MY decision 100%. Meanwhile, the jackass had gone up on the roof, cell phone in hand, talking to someone else in our office. The last thing my office heard was "there's no ice up heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrreeeeee.... THUD!" Dude fell 3 stories, broke both legs, both arms, several ribs and split his melon open pretty bad. I told my boss that I had to go, and we all ran over to check on him, with me calling 9-1-1 in the process. We finished the job long before he was ever healed. We did a LOT of jobs for the General Contractor on that site, and I later heard that the jackass was let go, and had never gotten more than the initial emergency care from Worker's Comp because I had warned him several times NOT to get on the roof, plus he broke safety rules by not being in a body harness and tied off as was required for ANY roof with more than a 3 on 12 pitch. The State Board of Worker's Comp ruled that he was injured due to his own negligence and disregard for safety practices.

Did I feel bad for him?? NOPE!, even though I hate to see ANYONE get hurt like that, some people have to learn things the hard way... and your own stupidity can be a very painful lesson to learn. I DID feel bad for his family, though, because they were facing some very rough times ahead due to HIS stupidity and loss of income.

Peace,

Ghost

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
6. Interesting
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:52 AM
Jun 2016

Your experience is totally different than mine. What part of the Deep South were you at? I was living in West Mobile during the 1990's. it actually inspired a fascination with urban decay and the ties between ecological and economic degradation that's stuck with me all these years. I left in 1999, but from what I can see, the trend hasn't really reversed. While the nucleus of the city seems to be alive, its outlying regions - including my old neighborhood -look more like a sandy version of the Rust Belt. The Elementary schools I attended look like they fell into the set of the next Mad Max movie.

The economic hub of my neighborhood was the intersection of two major roads. There we had a Home Depot that became a pottery barn, two submarine sandwich shops (Blimpies on one corner, Subway on the next), one mega-grocery (Delchamps), two drug stores, a marine supply store, a sewing and fabric store, a mardi gras and holiday supplier, three lounges, two Chinese restaurants, a computer store, two book stores (one new, one used), a car wash, a Harley Davidson outlet, a tractor repair shop, two gas stations, a burger king, a Blockbuster video, a jewelry and coin shop, a hobby store, Sonic, a catfish place, and a tractor retailer - plus several other businesses I can't remember off the top of my head.

Today, the pottery barn remains. The computer store was briefly a whole foods or something, and the nail salon is apparently eternal. Everything else is shuttered. it's an asphalt strip mall wasteland there. The surrounding neighborhoods don't seem to have changed much, except for all the realtor signs I see in google street view.

So. Your town got a car plant nearby. Mine didn't. You are admonishing everyone because of your very narrow perspective of one spot, at one time, a situation which is very far from universal.

 

alain2112

(25 posts)
71. Thanks for the story
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:31 PM
Jun 2016

This has absolutely nothing to do with you, you are great, but I am actually shocked by the people around here who are more interested in arguing with the monsters that live in their own heads than they are interested in reasoning together with a person of broadly leftist views who might (might) hold slightly different opinions on some matter.

Is everyone really this quick on the draw around here? A habit of launching pre-emptive scorched earth counter offensives does does not bode well for advancing the Left agenda.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
12. Of course you do. That's the "neoliberalism" talk
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:17 AM
Jun 2016

The 1970s were the golden Old Economy before it was ruined by neoliberalism and free trade.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
76. No. Nobody thinks that.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:43 PM
Jun 2016

Perhaps the very early '70s, but quickly there was a lot of inflation, unemployment, stagflation. Price controls. Energy crisis. De-industrialization. Those nice round numbers that mark the year-based decades don't always line up with the trends that define a decade. So the '70s started in perhaps '73 and ended in perhaps '83. Just like the '50s ended in '63 and the '60s ended in the early '70s.

The '70s were not a happy time to be other than a kid, and even then that might not have worked out. It was a good time to tune out from reality and watch tv, listen to music, that sort of thing. Star Wars and the mainstreaming of sci-fi/fantasy. Punk. Heavy metal. Start of New Wave. Progressive politics.

But the economy? Nuh-uh. And it continued to suck until perhaps '84.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
79. You're literally describing the opposite of neo-liberalism
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:07 PM
Jun 2016

Like, those are literally the things neoliberalism was developed to address.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
84. Only on the count of inflation
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:51 PM
Jun 2016

Are you really going to argue that the Reagan Era was the best of American economic times? 'Cause that's where your argument is going.

Archae

(46,262 posts)
32. The 70's was a great time, in entertainment.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:42 AM
Jun 2016

Music, TV, movies, and books.

Here in Sheboygan, our *BRILLIANT* city government in the late 70's came up with a wonderful idea of how to compete with the Memorial Mall, on the west side of town.

"Plaza Eight."

Eighth street downtown closed to traffic, and bricked over.
A pedestrian "paradise," right?
Wrong.
During winters, the bricks would heave up under the snow, causing unseen walking hazards.

And stores closed up.
Including Walgreen's and Prange's.

Nowadays, eighth street is open to traffic again.

The Memorial Mall is less than half-occupied, and "big box plazas" dominate, led by 2 Wal-Marts and a Shopko.

The former "Plaza Eight" is now mostly specialty shops.

1939

(1,683 posts)
36. Norfolk Va did that
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:49 AM
Jun 2016

Turned Granby Street into a walking mall. Big mistake and they have now reopened the street.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
94. Seems like everybody did it.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 05:14 PM
Jun 2016

Where I grew up - LaGarnge did it. Oak park il did it. State Street Chicago did it.

It was definitely the trendy thing. Flop.

griloco

(832 posts)
10. Jerome K Jerome--The Idle Thoughts Of An Idle Fellow
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 03:45 AM
Jun 2016

It is this glamour of the past, I suppose, that makes old folk talk so
much nonsense about the days when they were young. The world appears to
have been a very superior sort of place then, and things were more
like what they ought to be. Boys were boys then, and girls were very
different. Also winters were something like winters, and summers not
at all the wretched-things we get put off with nowadays. As for the
wonderful deeds people did in those times and the extraordinary events
that happened, it takes three strong men to believe half of them.

I like to hear one of the old boys telling all about it to a party
of youngsters who he knows cannot contradict him. It is odd if, after
awhile, he doesn't swear that the moon shone every night when he was a
boy, and that tossing mad bulls in a blanket was the favorite sport at
his school.

It always has been and always will be the same. The old folk of our
grandfathers' young days sang a song bearing exactly the same burden;
and the young folk of to-day will drone out precisely similar nonsense
for the aggravation of the next generation. "Oh, give me back the
good old days of fifty years ago," has been the cry ever since Adam's
fifty-first birthday. Take up the literature of 1835, and you will find
the poets and novelists asking for the same impossible gift as did the
German Minnesingers long before them and the old Norse Saga writers long
before that. And for the same thing sighed the early prophets and the
philosophers of ancient Greece. From all accounts, the world has been
getting worse and worse ever since it was created. All I can say is that
it must have been a remarkably delightful place when it was first opened
to the public, for it is very pleasant even now if you only keep as much
as possible in the sunshine and take the rain good-temperedly.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
17. So true
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:34 AM
Jun 2016

Something I am realizing - it wasn't that the world was any better then - they are mixing it up with something else. It was when they were young. Every generation has nostalgia for the era in which they were young.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
23. It's an astounding coincidence that the apogee of popular music was my senior year in college
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:04 AM
Jun 2016

And yet I find that's true for everyone I meet...

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
35. Wow
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:47 AM
Jun 2016

I ran across the sequel, Second Thoughts of an Idle Fellow, as a teenager among some books that had apparently been given to my father when my grandfather had passed away. I've never seen anyone quote Jerome K. Jerome in 40 years.

Good stuff.

Socal31

(2,484 posts)
14. Sorry to hear that.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:57 AM
Jun 2016

Posts like yours remind me that I am very lucky to have the career I do as someone born in the 80s with a GED.

bhikkhu

(10,708 posts)
15. I have plenty of good feelings about my childhood in the 70's
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:58 AM
Jun 2016

...but looking back, I realize we were an extended family of 8 in a small 3 bedroom house, struggling to survive. My single mom working to support 4 kids, our grandparents lived with us to help, while also raising their youngest daughter (my aunt, just a little older than us). Back in those days big families were the norm, as were small houses. I recall having just one pair of shoes at a time and trying to make them last because I didn't like to have to ask for new ones. And having two school shirts for the week so being careful not to get them dirty, as saturday was laundry day...lots of other things about not having much. I grew up middle class in a middle class suburb, most of my friends grew up about the same, and things got much better for everybody as the years went by. My own kids have no conception what "not having much" is like, in spite of having some fairly poor years.

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
16. That's one of the reasons
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:27 AM
Jun 2016

My parents opted to not go back to my dad's hometown in Alabama when my dad left the military.

A lot more opportunity in Rochester NY in the 1970's.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
19. My mom lost two jobs in the 70's and we ended up with a diesel VW.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:58 AM
Jun 2016

Other than that the 70's weren't that bad. Mom finally landed at her retirement job in 1978 (retired in 2002) and most our food was grown on our 80 acre farm.

The 80's, 90's, 00's and past 10 years have been normal rural South, until the past 3 or 4 as the coal industry has died so has our area. It'll be okay...pills have taken the place of jobs. My wife and I both work healthcare.

What I need most now is a 4th vehicle, I've got 2 invoices out now, and will soon have a third out that should allow us to pick up a new beater truck.

The lesson of my 46 years so far is, if you're willing you don't have to struggle.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
20. I don't think people are referring to the 70's as the "good ol' days"
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:00 AM
Jun 2016

Oil Crisis, inflation, recession after recession, US manufacturing at it's lowest quality point ever, shit cars,...

The "Good Ol' Days" they refer to are the 50's - 60's manufacturing days of union jobs, pensions, growing middle class, US as a world leader, space race, etc.

FWIW, I was a southern child of the 70's and white. We were also dirt poor. I didn't even have a bedroom. I slept on the porch Summer and Winter. I watched a lot businesses die during the 70's economic upheaval.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
21. OK, but the 50s and 60s economy was entirely based on keeping non-white non-male labor cheap
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:02 AM
Jun 2016

People can't actually be nostalgic for that, can they?

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
22. That never went away.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:11 AM
Jun 2016

Companies figured out that labor in Mexico and the Far East is even cheaper than the lowest wages they could pay in the U.S.



 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
25. Not to mention the U.S. Benefiting form much of the industrilaized world....
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:20 AM
Jun 2016

Having been dvastated from a World War.

There ARE some things I want to replicate from that era.... Massive pu
Buc investment in public works projects. Roads, Bridges, damns, space exploration, basic science....

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
26. Me too, and I think they'd all depress wages
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:29 AM
Jun 2016

Cheaper cleaner energy, better transportation, better communications; these are all intrinsic goods but in that they would make automation and labor mobility easier they would depress wages. They'd still be worth it.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
27. They'd depress wages in certain kinds of jobs....
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jun 2016

But other jobs would open up. Wind turbines, for example, require skilled maintenance.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
29. Sure but you can say that about everything.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:32 AM
Jun 2016

The bigger problem is that wages are a concept whose time is coming to an end. We need a better way for people to get stuff than trading labor for it.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
30. I do agree with that....
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:35 AM
Jun 2016

But I think many people, especially many labor advocates are more little "c" comservative than they admit. They want to oreserve this artificail past, just like you mentioned in your OP. They want to maintainedisting jobs and structures. That won't happen. We do need to be thinking about what's next.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
37. Oh, hugely small-c "conservative", and I get that that's their job
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:56 AM
Jun 2016

The entire point of unions is to protect incumbent employees, and when I was a longshoreman I definitely appreciated them. But they can only stick thumbs in the dam for so long.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
53. Anything other than a guaranteed income is just arranging deck chairs
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:48 AM
Jun 2016

And the sooner we face this the less painful it will be.

I even have a great mechanism: make the public default 1.5% owners of all joint stock corporations, receiving preferred dividends. Hell, end all other corporate taxes at that point.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
58. Let me add onto that
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jun 2016

Have all employees of those corporations have an ownership stake in those corporations that collectively adds up to 51%, with an elected rep of the employees as acting CEO (or at least COO), and similar representatives making up 51% of the corporate board, rounded up. So in a 12 person board, the public would get 1 member, the employees would get 6, other shareholders get 5.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
59. That's definitely a thought. I also like Germany's method
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:09 PM
Jun 2016

Labor has a IIRC 20% position on the board of every company, and debt holders have 10%.

In the US, the only legally recognized stakeholders are holders of equity (until everything goes pear-shaped, and then holders of debt have 100% say). But there's absolutely no reason it has to be like this, as Germany shows.

Korea requires the supply chain to have a voice on the board; Japan actually requires competitors to have a voice (in the form of the industry trade association; I also think that's kind of a good idea since somebody should look after the interests of the industry as a whole).

Businesses are complex things with multiple stakeholders, and our legal system is awful about recognizing that.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
63. Well my method is *specifically* a way to implement socialism
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:14 PM
Jun 2016

By giving the labor of each firm a controlling stake in that firm. Aka the workers owning the means of production, albeit barely. I think more national and international business issues could be handled by larger unions, industry associations, and the like.

OrwellwasRight

(5,170 posts)
40. public investment doesn't depress wages
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jun 2016

It raises wages by creating jobs and tightening the labor market.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
42. Depends. It certainly can.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:12 AM
Jun 2016

The Internet was a public investment and it sure as hell lowered a whole lot of wages.

OrwellwasRight

(5,170 posts)
46. anecdotal.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:22 AM
Jun 2016

Let's fire every public worker and end every government contract and see what happens to wages.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
47. For the 50% of the population that was alive 3 years later, they'd be up
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:27 AM
Jun 2016

We saw that in Europe after the black plague, which that would probably be about as disruptive as. Wages skyrocketed for the survivors. Enough to pay for the Renaissance, in fact.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
52. No, I'm saying raising wages isn't worth that
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:46 AM
Jun 2016

And public investment is worth it even when it lowers wages.

OrwellwasRight

(5,170 posts)
93. I think I may understand where you are coming from.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 05:01 PM
Jun 2016

And I still disagree. Public disinvestment has never worked. Wage suppression is not a policy for sustainable growth.

http://themarketmogul.com/austerity-european-union-history-repeats/

It always hurts the poorest. I stand with the poor.



Recursion

(56,582 posts)
96. No, you're still getting this backwards
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:45 PM
Jun 2016

Public investment is good.

In some cases it lowers wages, but it's still good even when it does. In other cases it raises them. Also good then.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
82. I don't think the OP knows what the Good Old Days means at all.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:16 PM
Jun 2016

Two parents with masters degrees that could not hold even entry level positions? Cool story...no really...

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
38. The meme that really irks me is "a high school graduate could support a family of four"
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:57 AM
Jun 2016

A white male high school graduate could, in certain parts of the country, yes. A single mother was SOL. So was a black man (not to mention a black woman).

It was a false prosperity, but people seem to fall for it.

doc03

(35,148 posts)
80. That was true here for the lucky ones that had family either in management or union positions
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:11 PM
Jun 2016

in the coal or steel industries. I was one of the lucky ones my dad was in management at the mill. But even so
the standard of living of us middle class in those days can't in any compare with what people consider middle class today.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
31. When I see stories like this the first question I want to ask
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jun 2016

is, what were those Master's degrees in? A public school that didn't hire a single new teacher, or ever need a substitute for ten years straight had a stability of teaching staff that is awe-inspiring. However, I do know that between 1969 and 1970 there was a sudden glut of teachers on the market and those jobs did get a lot harder to find.

Even today young people go for majors and even advanced degrees in fields that have almost no jobs available. Or that pay poorly.

And I somehow find it hard to believe that there were no jobs of any kind during the entire decade of the 1970's over the entire South. Wasn't that when the textile mills all moved south? Of course, not every city had one. I'm reminded of the claim I see over and over here that it is impossible to get hired after the age of 60. Or 50. Or even 40. I know for a fact that's not true, because I have been hired several different times after the age of 60. Okay, so you may not be able to get a career position in the field you love, but there are jobs out there. Just be willing to do them.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
33. And that was the lesson I took from my parent's decisions too
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jun 2016

That said there really was fuck-all job opportunities for about 300 miles, and they needed the support network they had where they were. Looking back I think that was a mistake (I bailed, after all) but I understand where they were.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
85. So the issue isn't so much the '70s, but living in an area (the South)...
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:52 PM
Jun 2016

with no jobs to match your parents' education? I understand not wanting to leave a support network, but it sounds as if there was opportunity in other areas.

I grew up in the Mid-Atlantic region and my experience is vastly different. My father, with his B.S. in Biology and Masters in Education, moved us from PA to the DC 'burbs. I still remember that day -- crying my eyes out at the Jolly Roger saying good-bye to grandparents! His father, an electrician, and mother, a homemaker, paid for all of his higher education. Life in these DC 'burbs was good and affordable. My public school employee father and medical assistant mother sent me to college debt-free. We lived in a Wonder Years-type neighborhood with community pools, tennis courts, soccer fields, and community centers. We enjoyed annual beach vacations and weekend getaways to historic sites. We weren't driving Audis or Jags, but Fords and Chevys, and my father maintained the cars as much as he could himself. And I NEVER heard my parents complain or worry about healthcare costs. And before anyone jump on me re: diversity, my little circle of friends was white, black, Mexican, Chinese, and Indian. The black and Indian women are medical doctors, the Mexican woman a college professor, and the Chinese woman owner of a very successful restaurant. We all attended state colleges. Family and friends lived similarly in PA, with parents working for the phone company, railroad, public school system, or mill (just to name a few). Very few had any college, let alone Masters degrees, and all retired with good pensions.

I wouldn't really refer to any decade as "the good ol' days" -- there's always good and bad. But these days with low wages, insanely priced housing, crushing college debt, and unfunded retirements are not better for most. We need a happy medium.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
107. I find it hard to work up a great deal of sympathy for people
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 07:03 PM
Jun 2016

who aren't willing to relocate to get work. As someone who has moved to different parts of the country at various times for various reasons, perhaps I just lack an understanding of what it is like for someone with strong roots somewhere. But if they aren't willing to go where jobs can be had, they are really forfeiting much right to complain about jobs not being available where they choose to stay.

And in the 1970's 300 miles wasn't so far away they'd never see family and friends again. It is so frustrating when people piously claim that it is impossible to get a job, any job, when there really are jobs. Maybe not the one you'd prefer to do. Maybe not in the place you'd prefer to live. But there are jobs.

1939

(1,683 posts)
39. Growing up in Dertoit (1940-1957)
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:02 AM
Jun 2016

All of the men on the block worked (mostly in the "plants&quot . Only one or two of the wives worked. One income was enough to take care of the family though wants/needs/expectations were fewer. Houses all had three or four tiny bedrooms with tinier closets. There was only one bathroom in each house. No air conditioners so in the heat of the summer, you hung out in the damp basement during the evening till the night had cooled things off. Televisions came in very slowly. No fancy stereos. Most families had only one car. They were still able to live at a level quite a bit above the subsistence level on only one income.

The 1970s were the most dreadful decade of my life with 1978 and 1979 being the worst years of my life.

I really enjoyed the 1980s and 1990s.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
41. My mom talked about the family vacations they took in the 1950s
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:10 AM
Jun 2016

(And she was pretty solidly middle class growing up, which made the 70s that much harder.) They would all pile in the car and drive to a National Park, where they would either sleep in the car or pitch tents at a campground.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
98. Please note: piling in the car. Driving somewhere (to a National Park) and
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:08 PM
Jun 2016

sleeping in the car or pitching tents.

While a wonderful vacation, it was not in the lap of luxury by any means.

In the summer of 1964 my mom packed us five kids up in the car, drove from Tucson to the Grand Canyon where we parked in a campground and slept some of us in a tent, some in the car. I recall quite distinctly that the cost of food at the grocery store in the Grand Canyon was enough greater than what we paid in Tucson to be an issue, meaning we couldn't afford to stay there as long as Mom had hoped. But it was still a fabulous vacation. We got to see the GRAND CANYON!! We didn't feel remotely deprived because we couldn't stay at one of the expensive hotels there, just slightly deprived because of the cost of food there. But had Mom known, she'd have planned ahead.

I think what matters here is the expectations. Back then, our expectations revolved around driving somewhere and camping out. Now, the expectations are vastly different. Which isn't necessarily to say that modern expectations are bad, but they certainly are different.

This applies to lots of things. The sheer cost of what most of us would consider to be basics: Cable, internet, cell phones, smart phones, iPod, iPad, and so on, are costs that add greatly to the bottom line. Fifty years ago a TV and a landline were the basics, and I want to point out that in 1962 we didn't have a telephone (landline) because we could not afford one. When my mom, a nurse, was promoted to a supervisor position where the hospital needed her to be on call, she told them they had to pay for the phone line, and they did. As late as 1962 most Americans took having a phone for granted, but because we did without one for a couple of years, I think that's why to this day I'm willing to do without what may people think are basics. I don't have a TV, nor cable or satellite dish, although I watch plenty of shows over the internet. I have a cell phone, although not a smart phone.

It is so easy to knuckle under to societal expectations, and never once give a thought to what is actually important or needed. Or, as in the example that triggered this response, how different things might have been in the past.

raccoon

(31,091 posts)
69. thank you for posting that, one who was there.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:21 PM
Jun 2016

Last edited Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

One income was enough to take care of the family though wants/needs/expectations were fewer. Houses all had three or four tiny bedrooms with tinier closets. There was only one bathroom in each house.[/div class="excerpt"]


So often people talk about one income supporting a family and conveniently overlook that the family didn't have as big a house, nor nearly as much 'stuff' as now.

1939

(1,683 posts)
88. It was before they passed the Constitutional Amendment
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jun 2016

That guaranteed each child in a family a bedroom of their very own.

One bedroom for Mom and Pop, one bedroom for the two, three, or four boys, and one bedroom for the two, three, or four girls. Double decked bunks were a staple of the furniture industry at the time.

I shared a bedroom with my brother until I got married except while I was away at college (where I always had two or three room mates).

Married men and women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s made a family home in a little bungalow that kids today would find unacceptable as a "starter home".

Once WWII food and gas rationing ended, people thought they were living in a paradise on earth.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
104. I think that's the secret behind the paradox that real wages are much higher now
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 12:24 AM
Jun 2016

Than they were in the 1950s. They are, but nobody is buying a 1950s standard of living any more. (Hell, you often can't: they don't build those small houses anymore.)

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
43. I can't speak for everyone, nor would I try to. I also can't speak to your own situation. But
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:13 AM
Jun 2016

it appears we grew up in different worlds. I wasn't in the South. I was in the North. My Dad had one of those good Union automotive jobs that were abundant here. After Reagan those jobs began being poached by Southern states. My Dad, whom had 45 years of hard work, barely escaped with his promised pension and benefits. Many of his co-workers, with less time on the job, were not so lucky. They had to uproot their families and move South to try to save their jobs, some several times. Others took meager "buy-outs", and now have nothing.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
56. And this is what I'm trying to remember
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:57 AM
Jun 2016

Pennsyltucky right now seems like North Mississippi when I was growing up. I'm trying to keep that in mind.

Kaleva

(36,146 posts)
51. I grew up poor back in the '60's. Today is much better then back then.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:44 AM
Jun 2016

While I have no regrets, ill feelings or wish things would have been different, I wouldn't trade today or tomorrow for yesterday.

dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
55. As one who came out of active 4yr duty in the Navy in '64, I had a choice of three places to work...
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 11:57 AM
Jun 2016

and I was a high school graduate. But the US was still less than 20 yrs since WW2, so we were at the top and even big business favored protecting our American industries. I went with the union jobs, and did have some strikes over the years, but we prevailed so that I retired almost twenty years ago. My opinion is that when Reagan got in, that administration favored doing foreign trade with the aim being to break the unions. The population seemed to like the anti-union attitudes expressed by the media and I think that was the reason we swallowed that NAFTA deal, which really ended what was a very industrial mid west in this country. Then we dumped the Glass-Steagall act, which really set loose the big banks who had big plans for slave labor in Asia. Oh, and both those things happened with a Dem president who was on OUR side!(middle class) I can't say which decades were the 'happiest', but I think during the 50s and 60s this country was more focused on staying 'on top'.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
61. Maybe it IS the Good Old Days?
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:12 PM
Jun 2016

We just have more "stuff."

We are more "comfortably numb."

We need to think about what is "revolutionary" when we think about where we are as a nation.

The results of the 2014 elections:





http://www.ijreview.com/2014/11/198404-ok-enough-house-senate-governors-races-happened-state-legislatures/

Warpy

(110,910 posts)
62. Nixon and Ford were both hamfisted Republicans who thought 4% inflation was a holocaust
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:13 PM
Jun 2016

and obviously had no clue that 2-4% inflation is built into fiat money. They were desperate to fix a problem that existed because the US had gone off commodity based currency (gold and silver) in favor of a fiat currency that could allow the money supply to expand as the economy did, which means inflation. Their ignorance devastated the economy in the early and mid 70s as their idiotic policies stifled "unimportant" things like hiring.

Even Boston got shabby in the 70s, clobbered first by stupid Republican anti inflation policies, then by the OPEC oil shocks sending double digit inflation through the economy, inflation the usual cadre of oinkers in the press blamed on unions.

Your memories of the "good old days" just before Reagan are accurate. The bungling of the end of the New Deal period is what allowed Reagan to happen and the final nail put into the coffin of the working public.

What should be pointed out about the years of Nixonian stupidity is that the people who had jobs were able to live on what they paid, even if they were marginal workers getting minimum wage. While the shops and factories are open again, too many of the people working in them now are not able to survive long term on what they make.

Response to Recursion (Original post)

REP

(21,691 posts)
83. My job was to answer the phone and lie to bill collectors
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:39 PM
Jun 2016

My brother and I went to work at 12 and 13 washing dishes to help keep the house from being foreclosed.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
92. For the first world, the good old days ended 8 years ago.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jun 2016

For the rest of the world, they're probably yet to come.

DemocraticWing

(1,290 posts)
95. A lot of people are suffering today, and a lot of people suffered then.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 06:50 PM
Jun 2016

The past included a flawed version of capitalism where many people suffered. The present includes a flawed version of capitalism where many people suffer.

There's a common denominator.

marybourg

(12,540 posts)
103. I never heard of the 70's referred to
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 12:20 AM
Jun 2016

as the "good old days". Oil crisis, stock market crash, deep recession. Just have to look at the clothing and hair styles of the time to see the dislocation.

I've only ever heard of the 1950's and earlier referred to that way. And even they sure weren't good for everyone.

 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
108. It depended on where you lived too. If you lived in some areas in FL there were no real jobs
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jun 2016

It seemed like places that people would move to because the weather was nice..even Vegas area might not be good for jobs. Other areas were fine for jobs. It is just too bad that you had such a bad time during a time that I believe was better than what we are dealing with today.

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