Help with some math please. Indian Heritage

[trumad]

OK---so I have a Grandmother I never met who was a full blooded Apache Indian. An Irish guy by the name of Homer McFarland (Not making that name up) ( and I never met him) married her straight off the Flagstaff Arizona reservation. They had my Mother...

My Mother died when I was two---my Dad remarried, and we lost contact with my Mothers relatives---hence me knowing nothing about that side of the family.

No one on my Dad's side is Indian.

OK mathematicians---How much Apache Indian am I?

On edit: What percentage?

[Squinch]

1. A quarter. What am I missing?

One grandparent out of your four.

[Nye Bevan]

2. 25%.

Seems to me that one out of four grandparents was Apache Indian. No advanced math needed.

[trumad]

3. Yeah---but she (my Mother) married a non-Indian.

[leftofcool]

6. 1/16

Although, if you have documents and want to take them to the Tribe for recognition, they may cay it is lower like 1/64 but sound like it is 1/16 to me.

[trumad]

11. No documents.

I think I might do the DNA test.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. How are you arriving at that number?

It sounds like the grandmother was 1/1 Indian, so surely that would make the mother 1/2 and the OP 1/4? Or have I missed something? Is Indianness traditionally quadratic?

[Orangepeel]

16. 1/2 of 1/2 = 1/4

if your mother's mother was 100%, then your mother was 50%. You are 50% your mother and 50% your father. 50% of your mother's 50% is 25%. 0.5 x 0.5 = .25.

[TexasProgresive]

18. Mom is 50% Apache and 50% Irish

Half of 50% is 25 %

[trof]

30. Doesn't matter.

She was one half Apache.
That makes you one quarter.
Doesn't matter what you dad was.
If he had been Apache then you'd be 3/4 Apache.
You are one quarter, period.

[immoderate]

4. One grandparent = one quarter.

--imm

[trumad]

7. But my Dad was not Indian...

Doesn't that dilute the percentage?

[Major Nikon]

17. No, it can only increase it if he were part Native American

If your Grandmother was on any of the federal indian rolls as 100%, and you claimed no other attachments to the rolls, you would be eligible to get a CDIB card which would say 25%.

The following chart can be used to determine degree of Indian blood. In your case, the calculation is very simple. 4/4 + N-1 = 1/2. 1/2 + N-1 = 1/4.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wishawa4/Menominee%20Indians/quantum.htm

[Takket]

23. he did dilute the percentage: to 25%

your mom was 50 and he was 0, so you are 25. if your dad was some non-0 number, you would be greater than 25.

[leftofcool]

8. and one white parent =1/16

[trumad]

10. I thought so.

I mean--I'd love to be 25 percent.

[immoderate]

15. Your mother was half. You're half of that -- a quarter.

--imm

[TexasProgresive]

21. How do you work that out?

Grandmother 100% Apache, Grandfather 100% Irish white makes the mother 50%Apache and 50% Irish white. Mother marries a white man so the offspring genetics come 1/2 from the mother and 1/2 from the father. That makes the offspring 25% Apache and 75% white. If the grandmother was the G-grandmother then you would be correct.

[leftofcool]

28. For tribal recognition it will not be called 1/4

She has a white father so it is more likely she would be called 1/16 if she was seeking tribal recognition. As well, unless the grandmother was on some kind of early tribal roll, 100% Apache is unlikely. Technically, you are correct but tribal recognition is weird, depending on the tribe.

[SheilaT]

31. How in the world does the white father

change the percentages? Does he somehow contribute 15/16 of her DNA?

If the tribe is so math challenged as to think someone with one grandparent who is a full-blooded Apache is less than one quarter Apache, they really need to review basic fractions.

Now if they choose to not enroll someone who is only one quarter Apache, that's their choice. But it does NOT change the math.

[yellerpup]

35. Small point --

The Bureau of Indian Affairs issues a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood, the tribe decides on whether or not you are a part of them. My tribal membership card does not give a blood quantum but my CDIB card does. The blood quantum rule was introduced by the government to keep the government from having to pay reparations to future generations.

[saidsimplesimon]

5. trumad, to establish evidence of your claim

would require a DNA test and a loooong search of public records. Caucasian men sometimes resorted to "common law" back in the day of not so long ago. The "cover-up" was intended to wipe out the "sins of our fathers". Just my opinion, but much evidence exists for those with inquiring minds.

[trumad]

9. Will a DNA tell me the percentage?

[saidsimplesimon]

13. Yes

[Demonaut]

32. it will show the percentage of native american but not the tribe, native american covers south

america too, I'm 21% and my brother shows 26% native american but in older hispanic families it's rare they acknowledge the native american side as native americans were looked down upon

[Demonaut]

34. try the ancestry dna test, it will give you a map of the densities of your dna profile

mine in centered around Taos and Albuquerque

[JoePhilly]

12. My mother told me that one of her grand parents was part ...

... American Indian.

My mother's mother (my grand mother) was raised by her Aunt (my grandmother's mother died shortly after my grandmother was born).

So the woman I knew as my great grandmother (who was actually my grand mother's Aunt), said that her grand mother (and thus my grand mother's grand mother) was an American Indian.

I had no problem telling people that I was "part" American Indian.

Or that I am, via other grandparents, also French, Irish, Scottish, German, and English.

I'm, a mutt.

I bet Trump hates that.

[annabanana]

26. "Eight Greats" back, I have a Native American ancestor.

Our old family bible called her "Alice Sessatom of the Pokanauket Tribe of the Algonquin Nation"
(I think it's the Wampanoag)

[JoePhilly]

27. That's neat.

I've done some basic tests that show my paternal ancestors all come from Europe.

My father (who was kind of a jerk) said my mother probably lost all her native American blood, during her first period.

Did I mention he was kind of a jerk?

In my research, I've also found old old relatives from as far west as Texas in the 1800s, although most of my relatives from that same time period were in PA and Ohio, and NJ.

My mother's story was that her American Indian heritage was from a group of Indians from near what is now Doylestown.

[Bad Thoughts]

14. 25% or 0% depending on how you see it

If the purpose is to tell quaint tales about family history, 25% is fine.

If you are looking to gain access to benefits, it is how much you can prove: you need birth records.

If you are looking to be recognized by other Apaches, you might need to show that you are part of the community. Not all tribes look at "nativeness" as something genetic. Some see it as something cultural, required one to live within the community.

You would need to see what Apaches require for recognition.

[trumad]

22. Not really looking for Benefits.

Just curious of what percentage I am and as you can see by this thread ...that ain't easy.

[Bad Thoughts]

24. Do the DNA test. I did.

My sister did the National Geographic test for her daughter, but needed my genetic inputs to get a better picture of the paternal line. It's not cheap. It turned out roughly 40% Jewish, 32% Hispanic, 19% Scandinavian, and 5% Native American.

I have no interest in claiming native descent. Indeed, I had dismissed family stories claiming so. Having deep roots in New Mexico, it makes sense.

[SharonClark]

25. No. It is easy

You are for some reason ignoring simple math.
1 NA grandparent and 3 non-NA grandparents makes you 25% NA.

[leftofcool]

29. Tribal recognition does not use simple math.

It is more complicated than one would think.

[Mariana]

38. But Trumad asked a simple math question

not about tribal recognition. So, lets give the simple math answer, which is 25%.

[pinboy3niner]

20. Growing up in the '50s and '60s...

...I think I have cowboy and indian heritage.

[1939]

36. Very, very politically incorrect

It should be livestock management technicians and indigenous peoples.

[pinboy3niner]

37. I still remember my older brother having the 45rpm record of 'Mr. Custer'

Please Mr. Custer
I don't wanna go
There's a redskin waitin' over there
Pht pht pht.

[kwassa]

40. Happy Trails to You.

Until we meet again.

[lapfog_1]

33. I am 3/8 Native American

My grandfather on my mothers side was a full blood Cherokee

My great grandmother on my fathers side was a full blood Blackfoot.

I do not look or act like any Native American... however I was offered a full Scholarship to Haskell (A Native American University in Kansas). I also had a full Scholarship to the University of Kansas... plus loans and living expenses... so I went to KU. Haskell is in the same city as KU (Lawrence KS).

I have aunts (mothers side) who live on the reservation... and cousins and 2nd cousins.

Anyway, you had 4 grandparents (biological)... 1 of them was a full blooded Native American, that makes you 1/4 Native American.

[denbot]

39. Hey Brother..

I'm Chiricacua Apache, Tamahumara, and French Canadian on my mom's side, Yaqui, an unknown tribe, (my great paternal grandfather kidnapped his wife from another tribe), and Mexican/American from my dad's side.

Like you, my Apache elders are from Arizona, along with New Mexico, is where all my older relatives were from before coming to California.

I also believe you are one quarter Apache, though whether your from the Eastern Apache Nations (Chiricacua, Mescalero, Kiowa, Jicarilla ), or the Western Apache Nations Tonto, White Mountain, Coyotero, San Carlos, Yavapai), would take genetic testing if you don't have any genealogical information to go on.

[kwassa]

41. Racism in claiming Indian heritage.

Modern day twists and turns. True story.

I was in a class with a woman who was terribly proud of her Osage ancestry. To me, she appeared to be Scandinavian, with blond hair down to her waist. She talked about her Indian roots repeatedly.

Just to be conversational, I talked about my wife's Indian heritage, which while visually obvious, had no documentation specifically. The problem was, my wife was also black. The Indian population of the Tidewater area of Virginia and Maryland was absorbed into the black population. Her grandfather looked like a slightly black Indian. Probably Nanticoke, the regional tribe.

My Scandinavian Indian classmate took great offense at being compared to a black Indian woman, and avoided me for the remainder of the semester.

[DonCoquixote]

42. while her taking offense maker her look bad

There is one danger the line of thought in the reply leads to, the fact that people should "look" a certain way. For example, I am Puerto Rican, now my mother looks Irish, my father is about a shade darker than Halle Berry. In the Americas, people of different skin shades did mix, from milk white to bread tan to coffee brown to chocolate black. So all of a sudden people like me (I guess Olive skinned works, as I get mistaken for Greek or Italian a lot) get considered not Puerto Rican. Here I go tracing my parents lineage back to the 1500's, and because someone decides people "look" a certain way, they get to tell me who I am.