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gollygee

(22,336 posts)
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:33 AM Jul 2016

The GOP's war on voting is working

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-gops-war-on-voting-is-working/

took Johnson six months to get Hatten a state photo ID because, like many African Americans born in the Jim Crow South, he didn’t have a birth certificate, and the DMV rejected his initial application. He took his new ID to the polls, but the address on it didn’t match his new address, which the poll workers needed to register him at the site (Wisconsin is one of 14 states with Election Day registration). While Hatten conferred with the poll worker, another man who tried to register with his veterans’ ID was turned away.

After a lengthy conversation with election officials, Hatten went back to his apartment and retrieved a utility bill with his new address. After waiting patiently in line while Johnson looked on nervously, he was finally able to cast a ballot. “I’ve never had any problems voting until I came to Wisconsin,” Hatten said, holding up his “I Voted” sticker. “If someone didn’t know the law like I did, they would’ve walked away from the voting booth.”

In fact, many Wisconsinites who didn’t have Johnson’s help or Hatten’s perseverance were blocked from the polls. Their experiences offered a striking rejoinder to Governor Scott Walker’s contention that the state’s voter-ID law “works just fine.” Eddie Lee Holloway Jr., a 58-year-old African American who had moved from Illinois to Milwaukee, brought his expired Illinois photo ID, birth certificate, and Social Security card to get a photo ID for voting, but the DMV rejected his application because his birth certificate read “Eddie Junior Holloway,” the result of a clerical error. Holloway spent $200 on a bus ticket to Illinois to try to amend his birth certificate and made seven trips to government agencies in two different states, but he still couldn’t vote in the Wisconsin primary. To date, the state’s DMV has rejected nearly a fifth of all applicants for a voter ID, 85 percent of whom were African American, Latino, or Native American.

“This is the worst election I’ve ever seen in Wisconsin,” said Johnson, who’s lived in Milwaukee her whole life. “I go to bed thinking we’ve settled something, and I wake up and there’s something else.”
The GOP's war on voting is working (Original Post) gollygee Jul 2016 OP
Of course it works, it works to keep Democrats and liberals from voting. fasttense Jul 2016 #1
Wisconsin Republicans say one must have an ID, which can be obtained at any DMV office. Scuba Jul 2016 #2
If you don't have a car, the 30 minutes between Fort and Watertown may as well be a 1000 miles HereSince1628 Jul 2016 #3
I do not understand this. Indydem Jul 2016 #4
Every person born in America should be automatically mountain grammy Jul 2016 #5
Ok. Indydem Jul 2016 #6
I'm 68 and have moved more than a dozen times mountain grammy Jul 2016 #14
See what you did there? Indydem Jul 2016 #20
nope, never.. just handed over my old driver's license, mountain grammy Jul 2016 #25
Secure from what? elljay Jul 2016 #7
If the government wants us to have id to vote gollygee Jul 2016 #12
In most cases they do. Indydem Jul 2016 #19
"Getting the paperwork" is where the expense and inconvenience happen gollygee Jul 2016 #21
So let's address THAT! Indydem Jul 2016 #23
The people who want voter ID can fix it, or we can not require voter ID gollygee Jul 2016 #24
What a cop out. Indydem Jul 2016 #26
Because human beings gollygee Jul 2016 #27
It's hard to have anything against voter ID -- per se -- ananda Jul 2016 #13
So back to the question: Indydem Jul 2016 #18
Of course it is. DocJ Jul 2016 #8
Democrats have to win state Legislatures. This is THE year, with Trump suppressing Repub vote. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #9
DE-pressing the Republican vote. NT Jerry442 Jul 2016 #10
True. He's not blocking them, just alienating some of them. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #11
I'm retired and have lived in at least 6 different states, some twice. Stonepounder Jul 2016 #15
My mom had trouble in Florida gollygee Jul 2016 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #16
WE have to become active at the State and Local Level Cryptoad Jul 2016 #17
The GOP is the party of voter suppression Gothmog Jul 2016 #28
Should the same requirements be in place for the draft? LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jul 2016 #29
 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
1. Of course it works, it works to keep Democrats and liberals from voting.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 06:59 AM
Jul 2016

That wa the plan man. How come it took liberals and Democrats so long to fight back?

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
2. Wisconsin Republicans say one must have an ID, which can be obtained at any DMV office.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 07:02 AM
Jul 2016

Then they went to work closing DMV offices in Milwaukee and other poor/minority areas of the state.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/07/25/277592/walker-closes-dmvs/

Gov. Scott Walker’s administration is working on finalizing a plan to close as many as 10 offices where people can obtain driver’s licenses in order to expand hours elsewhere and come into compliance with new requirements that voters show photo IDs at the polls.

One Democratic lawmaker said Friday it appeared the decisions were based on politics, with the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts. […] Rep. Andy Jorgensen, D-Fort Atkinson, called on the state Department of Transportation to reconsider its plants to close the Fort Atkinson DMV center. The department plans to expand by four hours a week the hours of a center about 30 minutes away in Watertown. […]


If the Republicans truly believed the US is a center-right country, they'd want everyone to vote.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
3. If you don't have a car, the 30 minutes between Fort and Watertown may as well be a 1000 miles
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 07:20 AM
Jul 2016

There is no public transportation link between the communities along the Rock River, and commuting patterns than might produce opportunities for ride-sharing tend to be east-west rather than north-south.

Interesting that the distance isn't mentioned but the travel time between these towns is. I suppose this obfuscation of the problem works for many people in urban/suburban areas who think 30 minutes is pretty typical for getting any where on a city/county bus.

In the end, I expect the answer for rural WI will be that Photo IDs will be handled with an extra fee by WalMart and Pic-N-Sav supermarkets as is already true for other DOT functions. IMO, the US Post Office, which as part of their business pays a fair amount of attention to where people live, ought to pick up the ability to produce photo-ids that contain addresses and expiration dates. Emailing a digital picture to a distant printing center and mailing it to the person ought to be within the ability of their counter-top computers.


 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
4. I do not understand this.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 07:45 AM
Jul 2016

First off, I am in support of voter ID programs. No one can give me a legitimate argument why I should oppose to making our voting system secure.

With that said, these roadblocks to obtaining IDs are ridiculous. I can understanding expecting people to have the proper paperwork. That's a no brainer. We need these documents to accomplish anything in our society. But when people have the paperwork and a "clerical error" stops the process, it's gone too far.

What I would like to see is Democrats get behind these measures, but start pushing for ALL vital records in all states and localities be issued free of charge. Why I should have to go and pay to get a copy of my birth certificate is beyond me.

For those that need travel or other assistance, I think the party should be working to offer the legal and logistical help necessary to make this happen. Rather than fight this issue in court, and spend millions of dollars on lawyers and lobbyists, why don't we just help people get the documents they need? I'm sure they'd like to get a license, open a checking account, fly on a plane, or apply for public assistance too. Let's give them what they need to be functioning members of society.

It's low hanging fruit for the douchebag republicans to say "see they want illegals / dead people / felons to vote, that's why they oppose voter ID!"

mountain grammy

(26,213 posts)
5. Every person born in America should be automatically
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:03 AM
Jul 2016

registered to vote at age 18. It's a birthright. Voter registration should be as local as possible and as easy as possible.. you know, as easy as buying a killer assault rifle or bringing children into the world.
As a white woman, I've never experienced any problem voting and that's how it should be across the board.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
6. Ok.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:10 AM
Jul 2016

So every 18 year old is "registered to vote."

Where? Where they were born? Where they live? How do we know where they live? What if they move? What is to keep someone from voting twice? How do we know people are who they say they are?

So you want to make it "as easy as buying a killer assault rifle" to vote?

Great! You will need a government issued picture ID. You will need to fill out a form and undergo a background check. In many states you will have to pay a fee, some as high as $15.

Every. Time. You. Vote.

Is that what you want? Because that's a hell of a lot more restrictive than having a photo ID.

mountain grammy

(26,213 posts)
14. I'm 68 and have moved more than a dozen times
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:54 AM
Jul 2016

since I turned 21. Three of those moves across the country. It's always taken me about 5 minutes to register to vote. I've never needed a birth certificate, never more than an ID from my new state. In fact, three times I registered when I got my new driver's license. I've never missed an election, local, state or federal. Should life be voting be easy only for those who drive a car?

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
20. See what you did there?
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:22 AM
Jul 2016

"Never more than an ID from my new state."

To get your ID, you had to provide a birth certificate and a SS card (at least). Those requirements have been in place for decades (at least 40 years). So if you have a state ID, you are fine. You can register, vote, whatever - no problem.

The issue in these cases are for people who never had ID cards, or let them expire. How you function without one is beyond me, but I guess it is possible.

I want to know why the party isn't working to make it easier to get the documents necessary to get the IDs.

You glossed over the whole "killer assault rifle" line you were going down. Guess you didn't like the facts there either?

You are irrationally against voter ID because someone told you it's a republican ploy to stop Democrats from voting, without any further examination of the facts of the matter.

mountain grammy

(26,213 posts)
25. nope, never.. just handed over my old driver's license,
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:52 AM
Jul 2016

took a written test and got a new license. 50 years ago, driver's licenses didn't even have a picture. have never had to show my birth certificate for a driver's license or to buy a gun.

voter id is a republican ploy to stop Democrats from voting.. there are plenty of facts, like the story in the OP and others I've heard first hand.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
7. Secure from what?
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:18 AM
Jul 2016

To me, that is the key question. If I need my home secured, do I need a moat? Yes if I am securing it from a band of knights in armor on horseback, no if I am securing it from termites. An armed response system works great against burglars, not against raccoons in the attic. Study after study has shown there is virtually no voting fraud in the U.S. Most of the examples I'be seen are of registered voters who moved and voted twice and people who voted in place of relatives. The current ALEC laws supposedly remedy the problem of illegal immigrants and non-citizens voting, a non-existent problem. So, exactly what problem in our voting system needs to be solved and what is the appropriate measure to take?

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
12. If the government wants us to have id to vote
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:50 AM
Jul 2016

Then the government needs to provide it at their inconvenience and expense.

Otherwise, it's a poll tax and a way to keep legitimate people from voting.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
19. In most cases they do.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:16 AM
Jul 2016

But you have to have the paperwork to get the ID.

I am asking why we don't work to address THAT problem and quit working so hard to end the Voter ID laws.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
21. "Getting the paperwork" is where the expense and inconvenience happen
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:29 AM
Jul 2016

Which is why the government should do everything and just issue an id to people. Expecting other people to gather paperwork, which as the article shows often difficult, particularly for people of color, is to make voter id a form of a poll tax.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
23. So let's address THAT!
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:36 AM
Jul 2016

Do you know of any Democrat, in any state, or at the federal level that is trying to actually address this difficulty and not just saying "it's too hard to get documents, we need to just stop voter ID"?

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
24. The people who want voter ID can fix it, or we can not require voter ID
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:37 AM
Jul 2016

There have been almost no instances of voter fraud due to lack of voter ID, but there have been many many people unable to vote due to voter ID. You don't "fix" a non-problem, and create a problem, and then tell other people to fix the problem you caused.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
26. What a cop out.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:52 AM
Jul 2016

This is why people hate politics and politicians.

"You have a popular idea. I'm mad that your idea is popular. Instead of working to fix the flaws in your idea, I will work against your idea based on a perceived flaw, that I won't work to fix. Because politics."

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
27. Because human beings
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:55 AM
Jul 2016

It is a popular idea with people who don't want people to be able to easily vote, and not really with anyone else.

And human beings are being kept from voting.

ananda

(28,514 posts)
13. It's hard to have anything against voter ID -- per se --
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:50 AM
Jul 2016

However ... the only way it would work fairly is for a state
to automatically issue an ID to any citizen when they reach
voting age ... free of charge and easy to access.

But that's not what the Reeps want, and not what they are doing.

They want to keep Dems from voting. Period.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
18. So back to the question:
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:15 AM
Jul 2016

Why aren't Democrats across the country mobilizing to help voters overcome these hurdles? Why aren't Democrats saying "OK, I'll go for Voter ID, but you have to make Vital Records free, and quit being assholes about clerical errors from 60 years ago"?

It seems like a whole lot of effort is being put into stopping the laws (which the public supports) and no effort being made to help people get the things they need to vote.

DocJ

(2 posts)
8. Of course it is.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 08:21 AM
Jul 2016

They have been working on this for years. With every Republican Legislature, Republican Governorship, every census that allowed these crooks to redraw state districts to encompass almost every Republican voter while disenfranchising Democrats and Independents, they have slowly been turning voting into a sham exercise. This is the only way they can win and they know it. They are a dying breed. One only has to look at a states where Democrats won the majority of votes, but only gained a minority in seats allotted. Gerrymandering works. We have learned this lesson the hard way. Time to work to eliminate this power to subvert the will of the people.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
15. I'm retired and have lived in at least 6 different states, some twice.
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:04 AM
Jul 2016

The ONLY time there has ever been a problem registering to vote was in Missouri. My Missouri Driver's Licence, utility bill in my name sent to my address, and U.S. Passport were not enough to allow me to register (even though I had checked the voter registration page on-line to make sure I had the right paperwork). Nope. Not enough. They wanted to see my Social Security Card and wouldn't register me without it. U.S. Passport for cryin out loud was not enough for them. Sheesch.

In KY, on the other hand, when I went down to the DMV to get my driver's licence changed over from Missouri, they gave me a KY licence and registered me to vote. Poof and done. Guess in Missouri they just didn't want a nice liberal Democrat to register.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
22. My mom had trouble in Florida
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jul 2016

Her birth certificate has a different name from her driver's license because, wait for it, she's married and has my dad's last name.

Yes, that slowed things up and created expense for her to be able to vote. She had send to Michigan to get a copy of her marriage license to prove it was her.

Response to gollygee (Original post)

Cryptoad

(8,254 posts)
17. WE have to become active at the State and Local Level
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jul 2016

ONly solution i could see coming from the Fed level would be to re-issue SS cards like Driver license and pass a law that nobody votes without one these new SS cards. It would also stop alot of this multi state voting that the RWNJ like to do.

29. Should the same requirements be in place for the draft?
Fri Jul 1, 2016, 11:20 AM
Jul 2016

It would seem the same argument -- you only want "real" American citizens to register to be eligible to defend their country -- would make sense. That was the logic behind lowering the voting age from 21 to 18 during the Vietnam War. Potential draftees should have the right to choose their representatives.

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