“Gun Didn’t Kill My Boy..I did"

[busterbrown]

I don’t even know where to begin...

Help me..

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/04/us/florida-father-shoots-son/index.html

[Jitter65]

1. Really sad. Had there been no gun present, no accident, and no dead son. What is so hard about

understanding that?

[ileus]

21. Going to a gun range without a gun sounds boring.

Lot's of folks get hot brass down the shirt....few people try and retrieve it with the pistol in hand.

[3catwoman3]

2. This statement strikes me as very odd.

"Every round in the gun is your responsibility. When it fires you need to stand to account for it it. That's what I've spent the last two days doing, accounting for my operating error."

Accounting for his operating error"

I guess I'm not much help here.

[Skittles]

5. nothing odd about it

he's NRA-indoctrinated and not even the death of his own son will give him any pause - for people like him, the gun / availability of the gun is NEVER the problem

[3catwoman3]

16. I do get that mechanism. What I don't get...

...is the susceptibility to such indoctrination. I cannot even remotely imagine myself being able to be so brainwashed about something that could kill either of my children. I cannot understand the so-called "honor killings" either.

And don't even get me started on the "thankfully, we will see him again" line of thinking. That always seems to me like a way to not have to fully confront your grief.

[Jerry442]

79. Well, in a less insane world...

...this would be the rambling speech of a man in shock at the center of a horrible tragedy that he hasn't been able to fully process yet. I'd give him the benefit of a doubt.

But yeah, it does sound like he's reading from a script prepared by the NRA.

[Hoyt]

3. Even those who consider themselves "responsible " gun owners are a lapse away from a tragedy.

Yet they continue their bad habit, sick hobby, or whatever they call it. Worse, they introduce their kids into the gun culture with pride to carry on the tradition. This dad's love of guns killed his son.

Know that doesn't help. But coddling or emphatizing with these gun folks won't help the next time, either.

[Drahthaardogs]

4. I grew up on a ranch out west

And guns were part of life, but like a tractor, you gave it all the respect it deserved. Why the hell do people think these are tools for family fun? They are not.

[Eleanors38]

33. "Give guns all the respect they deserved" and "family fun" are not mutually incompatible.

Tens of millions of gun-owners can easioy reconcile the two outlooks, and do so without killing anyone.

[Drahthaardogs]

34. I disagree.

When it quits being a tool and starts being a toy the wrong message is sent. And on edit

I won't hunt with most people who I imagine consider themselves safe and knowledgeable. I for one will not hunt with anyone who insists on cartridge in their rifle chamber. But I will also not hunt we both anyone who uses a semi auto rifle.

[Eleanors38]

42. We learned early on a gun was not a "toy." But still, having fun

within the rubric of the shorting sports is still a safe and enjoyable past time.

I appreciate the precaution of not chambering a round on a hunt until (presumably) you are in a safe and stable stand or on station. It doesn't matter to me if someone is using a semi-auto rifle. My concern is being in the same vicinity the with someone who doesn't know how to use a firearm, most notably the one he/she is carrying.

[Drahthaardogs]

87. I would rather watch golf on tv than hunt from a stand

I grew up out west. We hunted for real. Packed in. Carried animals out on a back pack. Siwashed overnight to get an elk. Why the hell would you need to chamber a round sitting in a tree stand?

[Eleanors38]

91. "stand" can include just standing on the ground...

Much of my hunting is determining wind direction and likely deer routes, then getting into position for an interception, which can be sitting next to cacti and mesquite, or standing in a motte of oaks. More fun and tiring is "still hunting," whereby you walk through moderately brushed/treed land 3 steps at a time, freeze, and take 3+ minutes to turn your head, then proceed another 3 steps. Repeat. Generally, it takes an hour to cover 150 yards. I have gotten both whitetails and axis in this manner. You must have a chambered round when still hunting as you may happen upon an animal quite close to you, and you don't want the noise of chambering to bust you. If you use a tower stand (I have used them only to scout), you access the structure with an unloaded rifle, then load.

On some of our less-than "real hunts," we drag field-dressed deer to a pick-up point, but no one in the Hill Country wants to artificially duplicate the expense of using pack animals and spike camps (maybe a few tourists ).

Have you ever tried still-hunting elk? Is it a oft-used method where you hunt?

[Drahthaardogs]

95. No, this is not whitetail hunting.

You get up high, spot, and stalk them. You can also try to ambush in a meadow. Elk cover a lot of ground. They are migratory animals. They don't have a home territory and move with the seasons and weather. I suppose if it is a really hot fall and they are still way up in the black timber you could try that method.

I am the pack animal most of the time. A good frame pack is worth its weight in gold.

[thesquanderer]

6. Clinging to religion to make it easier to cling to his guns.

The incident has not changed his views of guns..."It's just a great loss but thankfully we'll see him someday."

Speechless.

[kimbutgar]

32. I think their gun worship is their religion

[3catwoman3]

37. I commented upthread a bit that, IMO, the...

"...thankfully we'll see him someday" line of thinking is a mechanism for not having to fully deal with one's grief. I cannot think of any spiritual outlook I could rationally hold that would keep me from feeling absolutely shredded if one of my sons died.

[REP]

7. They were at a range and the father did something extremely stupid

This wasn't a kid getting at an unsecured gun; this was an adult disobeying every safety rule at a gun range. A casing flew up and down the back of his shirt, and he reached for it with the hand holding a loaded gun and pulled the trigger. He could have killed himself or another shooter at the range, and he did manage to kill his child. At a range, all guns are to be kept pointing downrange; this incident illustrates why. The gun didn't malfunction and it was out at an appropriate place but it was being handled by an absolute moron. His son is dead, leaving his family with a lifetime of grief and has subjected other people at the range not only to danger but to a horrible incident. He should be charged with manslaughter or reckless endangerment at the minimum.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Uh, right.

The guy had burning brass caught in his shirt. Under the circumstances, it would have taken an enormous force of will to set the weapon to safe, place it on the ground facing downrange, and then proceed to remove the scalding metal from his blistering skin.

Plenty of not-absolute-morons make stupid decisions every day.

[louis-t]

29. Did he have a gun in both hands?

Sounds like you are making excuses for him.

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. And it looks like you're ascribing intent instead of reading.

To address your first point: The body's response to pain is rapid and largely autonomic. The primary concern is removing the aversive stimuli as quickly as possible, not necessarily what one is holding in one's hands.

To address your second point: no, I am not making excuses for him. I am debunking the myth that there are "responsible gun owners" who always follow the rules and "morons" who accidentally shoot people. Everyone makes mistakes. Every gun owner is "responsible"... until they're not.

[Jerry442]

81. We're all sinners.

If you don't have that mindset while dealing with stuff that can bite you, it's inevitable that it will.

[Chan790]

86. I see nothing in either of your posts in this subthread...

to justify not charging the father with manslaughter...that is, preventable accidental homicide. He accidentally killed someone while engaged in unsafe conduct with a dangerous tool.

Plenty of drivers are responsible too until they accidentally drop their cell phone while driving and run over a 4th grader. Nobody disputes that's vehicular manslaughter.

[obamanut2012]

47. I've had hot casings go down my shirt front and get stuck in my bra

NO WAY did I reach in with my gun hand, or any hand, until the gun was set down pointing down range.

If you can't handle hot casings popping off your face or down your shirt without killing someone, stay the hell off my range.

[Act_of_Reparation]

59. Yes, yes, yes, very fascinating.

Something happened to you one time and you zigged instead of zagged. Congratulations.

Seeing as, however, that on a long enough timeline, mistakes are bound to happen no matter who we are talking about, you'll have to excuse me if I have about as much faith in you as a gun owner as the guy in the OP. As I said, everyone is responsible until they're not.

[obamanut2012]

89. lololololololololololololol

[REP]

60. Anyone who lacks that minimal self control should not shoot

Ever had a hot casing go down your shirt? I have. It takes a second to put the pistol down. The pain from the hot casing is nothing compared to the pain of a gun shot or killing someone due to idiocy. Anyone unwilling to put up with a moment's discomfort (hot brass doesn't even really hurt that much in the scheme of things) to put down a pistol to prevent a shooting accident or death has NO business shooting.

[sarisataka]

69. Oh hot brass can hurt

A lot. I am told the scars are still visible on the back of my neck. It is quite difficult to grab a hot shell casing that is underneath the body armor.

Even so I was still able to maintain control of my gun and handle it safely.

[REP]

80. I wasn't wearing body armor

which I'm sure prolongs the contact and ouch. And while my pain scale has been moved up a few notches, I wouldn't describe it as enjoyable but as you said, it's quite possible to take the short moment to act with safety and responsibility for your sake and the sake of everyone around you. Hot brass hurts less than a gun shot wound and far, far less than taking someone's life through stupidity.

Tailgating and stupidity at the range are two things that really piss me off.

[Separation]

68. Ive had brass(hundreds) rain down on me

It is not a pleasant experience. Having a LMG, an automatic rifle, hell any rifle going off just to the left of you and you are the guaranteed recipiant of a hot brass shower. It all comes down to mind over matter (more importantly training) not to go waving your rifle/pistol around grabbing for it.

You own every round that comes out of that firearm. He broke Rule #1 of firearm safety. Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Should he be charged? Not up to me, but Im a little bit harsh on people who break those rules.

[SheilaT]

8. Why I'm in favor of total confiscation of guns,

which is oddly unpopular in many places.

If this man had not had a gun his son would still be alive. Is that so hard to understand? The real tragedy here is that the son was killed, not the father.

Every time we have another mass shooting in this country it's still not enough to come to genuine gun control. I do think that if every single day, every single gun death were front page news, within a few months even the most die-hard gun apologists would finally get it.

It would also help if each and every gun injury and maiming were also front page news, because those numbers are even greater than the gun deaths. I'd also encourage graphic photographs, so that people would understand just how devastating guns are to the human body. I honestly think that if we'd have seen the victims of Sandy Hook, we'd have had genuinely effective gun control by now.

But instead we have wishy-washy apologies for guns, no real presentation of the actual damage that guns do, and almost no showing of the human cost.

I've had it with the defense of the current state of gun ownership. I just want to say to each and every gun owner, as well as each and every person who defends the status quo, that you are saying you are perfectly okay with your child, your spouse, your parent, your best friend being murdered or permanently disabled by a gun. Because if we do not take away all the guns this toll will continue.

[Vinca]

9. Well said.

[Odin2005]

10. It's "oddly unpopular" because that would be effectively a ban on hunting.

The idea of which I am sure makes all the big city people who look down on us "dumb hicks" here in Flyover Country absolutely giddy.

[madokie]

11. Yup

my brothers 400 plus acres that are run over with feral hogs wouldn't be worth two shits if all the hunting was stopped. right now no one is hunting them there but there sure is a need for someone to start. They are simply tearing up the place.

[Hoyt]

12. Fine, let people keep one or two guns -- lever or bolt action -- AT HOME for hunting. Thing is,

most guns sold/acquired today are not used for hunting (game anyway).

[Odin2005]

64. Your crass condecension is noted.

[Hoyt]

66. I bet you have guns for more than hunting. Most gunners do not

hunt except once every couple of years. Yet, they have a gun safe, sometimes two, sometimes more full of the dang things. I think the record admitted by gunners on this site is 5, but I suspect some have more, especially those who profit from lethal weapons.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

13. Idiot.

"The incident has not changed his views of guns, he said. He still intends to keep them in the home and use them for self-defense of his home and family"


Yeah, keep "defending" your family.

[louis-t]

31. The guy that shot his daughter through the closet door

said the same thing. He killed her. Thought she was a burglar. The last thing she said was "Daddy, I love you". Then she died. He still claims he's gonna keep his guns cuz he has to perteck his family. In either case, the gun will probably never 'perteck' anyone. It has already fulfilled its purpose. It has killed someone innocent.

[mountain grammy]

14. A dead child due to an "operating error?"

and he takes total responsibility, so it's all good.

[Brickbat]

15. He's taking responsibility for shooting his son, and people are mad about his wording?

[ileus]

22. You're always supposed to blame the gun.

[Brickbat]

23. Some people are never satisfied, I guess.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. Well, since he's absolving the role of the gun in the accident, it's more than just "wording"

It's good that he accepts responsibility for his son's death, peculiar that he felt the need to dismiss the role of place and tool used. Had he killed his son while he was driving drunk, would he be so quick to state that alcohol had nothing to do with it?

Sadly, his statement comes across as valuing his weapons more than the life of his child. Even though I find it sad that he's ignoring the elephant in the room, people who are grieving often are irrational. I don't think he deserves to have this media attention with his name attached.

[LanternWaste]

28. I'd pretend it's about the wording too.

I'd pretend it's about the wording too, as it better suits the narrative. Not that anyone gets upset with the wording in regards to parents who leave their infants in the car for hours, or fail to prevent alligators from doing what alligators do. In those specific cases, we're upset about the carelessness... in this case, it's the merely the wording.

[Skittles]

65. well done, LanternWaste

some of us are able to see the bigger picture

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. I'm sure Wayne salutes him for defending the gun at all costs.

Maybe he'll even send him a check for burial expenses, or some flowers.

[busterbrown]

18. Perfectly stated..

So true and frightening..

[Matrosov]

20. He is not incorrect

If he had backed over his son with his car, it would still be his carelessness to blame.

The exception would be if he had backed over his son because the car malfunctioned somehow. However, in this case the gun didn't malfunction, the father was careless with it to the extreme.

[stage left]

24. If it were me

I would get rid of every gun in my house.

[obamanut2012]

48. Me too

And, I'm a gun owner, although every day that goes by now, I question why I still am.

[Iggo]

26. Shoulda said: "Gun didn't kill my boy. My love affair with guns killed my boy."

[Kang Colby]

27. Carelessness leads to accidental death.

Yet, no emotional posts calling for a banning of swimming pools, because gunz.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/ohio-authorities-say-child-drowns-in-pool/40342586

[Eleanors38]

38. The CompassionCrowd suddenly isn't so compassionate.

[Kang Colby]

39. I've noticed.

Yet, according to the CDC more young children die in non-boating drowning accidents than accidental shootings.

Yet for some only emotion prevails, not logic.

[Logical]

93. You continue to compare guns to swimming. How silly is that? nt

[Kang Colby]

94. I'm just using logic. n/t

[Logical]

92. The gun lovers are fine with it. A normal day. nt

[Sancho]

30. People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

[sarisataka]

40. How would this incident

Have had a different outcome with your propsals?

[Sancho]

46. Do you mean would accidents ever happen?

Maybe.

Chances are that better training, better safety systems, and fewer distractions would make a difference.

All we have is the article's description of the incident. In my experience, for many years we taught children and teenagers gun safety at shooting ranges. Typically with those shooters, we used single-shot, short 22s. Nothing more distracting than kids. For that reason, you supervise kids - then do your own shooting separately. Don't mix the two. My license requires children to be supervised, not co-shooters.

If you are practicing with a semi-auto (particularly pistols), you are taught to expect cartridge ejections. That's likely a training issue. We don't know the details, but chances are very great that the shooter(s) were under-trained and over-armed. I'm sure I would never "reach" with a gun in hand, but I'd have put it down on the bench pointing out before adjusting my glasses or anything else. Training should be part of a license.

Insurance companies might have had something to say about the construction of the range. I don't live all that far from that range, and you can see all sorts of dangerous range practices here. A better one may have had one shooter per station for exactly those accident reasons. Insurance should be part of a license.

Without more details, it's hard to say.

My license is to prevent dangerous people (and situations) from easy or casual possession of guns. The higher the bar, the fewer number of deaths and shootings. Nothing is foolproof, but right now it's crazy out there.

[Eleanors38]

36. Help, if you wish: The poor father is right. He engaged in unsafe actions...

...the death of his son is the result. If you want prosecution, then advance that as a course of action.

But in the end it was the Father's actions which resulted in his son's death.

I hope this helped.

[sarisataka]

41. I am confused by the opposition

To his admission. He was indeed responsible. Do people actually want him to say "it wasn't my fault, it was the gun" (or maybe that the gun 'went off')
Imagine the outrage if a driver killed someone and said 'not my fault. I was not looking with I ran the person over so it's the car to blame'

[Eleanors38]

43. I am not. Compassion is measured by their vitriole. Some deaths are more equal than others.

[randome]

45. The primary purpose of a gun is to kill. The primary purpose of a car is not.

There are more than two possible statements to come from the father: one is "I was stupid in keeping a gun near the people I love the most because they are more often used to kill innocent people instead of imaginary villains. I know that now."
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[stage left]

61. + 1

and it's not the primary purpose of a swimming pool either.

[sarisataka]

67. The purpose of the object

Is totally irrelevant. It does not matter if the object was built to kill, trim trees, transport people or decorate birthday cakes, if the negligence of the user results in a person's death, they are dead.

It is the user's negligence that causes the death and the victim is not less because the object was designed for anything else.

[randome]

73. But the odds of that negligence rise enormously when a gun is anywhere near a loved one.

Just as the odds rise when using a chainsaw in proximity to a loved one. There is a reason people stand BEHIND the person using the chainsaw. You can say that the son should have been standing BEHIND his father and that's a fair point. But that is not how people act around guns. It's not reality.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[sarisataka]

75. He was standing behind his dad

It was the father's negligence and violating every rule of safety and common sense with a dangerous item that caused the death.

If the chainsaw operator turned and thrust the saw at a companion in horseplay, would anyy resulting injury be blamed on the saw, as a dangerous item, or the operator who handled it carelessly.

[randome]

76. That doesn't change the fact that 'operating' a gun increases the odds of an accidental shooting.

A gun cannot be controlled simply because it is so easy to set off. A chainsaw has built-in safety features to prevent accidents, such as loosening the trigger to immediately stop it.

You can't do anything to stop a bullet from its path. What you just described about 'thrusting' a chainsaw at someone sounds more like attempted murder.

Guns don't kill people. I agree with that. But they make it much easier for someone to do that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[sarisataka]

78. operating' a gun increases the odds of an accidental shooting.

Is like saying operating a stove increases the chance of being burned. It is a simple identification of risk. Once a risk is identified then behaviors must follow to reduce the risk. In this case such behaviors were not followed.

There is one, and only one, way to set off a gun.
Pull the trigger.
If that is done the gun will fire. As you correctly note the bullet cannot be recalled there for the behaviour must be in place prior to pulling the trigger.

:uns per se do not kill people. However it is almost a 100% certainty of serious injury or death from a gunshot wound. Therefore it is necessary to have some of the strictest safety procedures when handling a gun and appropriate severe penalties for those who violate such procedures. As I said elsewhere I believe the father should be charged and his admission of fault entered into evidence.

[beevul]

71. Bah.

The primary purpose of a gun is to kill.

So tired of this. The primary purpose of a civilian legal firearm in America, is to accurately propel a projectile at a a target of the users choosing.


No more, no less.

[randome]

74. You can parse the language all you want but you cannot stop accidental shootings.

That's reality. There is a reason we have safety laws, as with seat belts, child-safety seats, etc. Fatalities rose until the government was forced to step in and mandate safety conditions.

The only reason that doesn't occur with gun ownership is our country's sick fascination with them.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[REP]

63. I do think it was criminally unsafe

Range 101 is keep all weapons pointed downrange at all times. Anyone who has been at a range has had hot brass go where it shouldn't; it takes a second to set the gun down. His actions endangered everyone at the range and killed his son.

Dangerous and reckless behavior at a range really pisses me off; this horrible story is a worst-case scenario of why.

[Catherine Vincent]

44. Sad for his family

Poor kid. Once the shock wears off, his father will need some serious meds to help him sleep.

[Lee-Lee]

49. If a drunk driver said "Beer didn't kill my son, I did"

In a situation where a drunk driving accident killed his son would anyone dispute that.

[Kaleva]

50. A major danger to a family is an adult member who owns a gun

[benld74]

51. When is the trial?

[no_hypocrisy]

52. Both killed the unfortunate boy.

Weapons are inherently dangerous. In the same league as dynamite.

Weapons are dangerous on an elevated level when mishandled.

Even with gun safety and in the protection of a shooting range, the weapon remained dangerous to human safety and/or life.

[ghostsinthemachine]

53. Gofundme campaign

https://www.gofundme.com/stephenbrumby

[Iggo]

55. After he sells his guns.

[stage left]

62. I imagine

he loves his guns too much to sell them to raise the money.

[Iggo]

70. Guns are more important than people.

America! Fuck yeah!

[TexasBushwhacker]

57. Their goal was $10K

which seems reasonable for funeral expenses. However, they have collected almost $25K.

[busterbrown]

58. Yep... probably a lot came directly

from the NRA...He took one for the boys with his statement..

[BeyondGeography]

54. Shows you how easy things can go wrong

Basically a reflex action by the father and he accidentally kills his son. I feel for the guy, even if I think his idea of family bonding is nuts. Good argument for me next time my Florida-man brother tries to get me to the shooting range.

[BlueStater]

56. Yes, you did. And you killed him using a gun.

He didn't die from nothing.

[JanMichael]

72. He is also a gun nut newbie. Three years? Really?

He is 60 something and now he gets into guns and kills his son.

Good job douchebag.

[spirald]

77. "The casing bounced off a wall and fell into the back of his shirt, the sheriff's office said."

Yes, semi-automatics eject extremely hot shell casings at a high velocity, because the ejection and reload is powered by the recoil of the shot. The brass can cause 2nd degree blistering burns if it gets lodged somewhere. Occasionally, the ejection velocity is fast enough to break the skin and cause a bleeding injury.

This is not an issue with bolt-action rifles, where shell casing ejection and reload is powered by hand. The casing pretty much drops to the ground and has time to transfer heat to the barrel before getting ejected.

Since semi-automatics reload automatically after each shot, it is almost certain that you will be holding a loaded, ready-to-fire weapon while your burning hot shell casing is flying through the air. When at a gun range firing semi-automatic weapons, anyone within several feet to your right will be dealing with your hot brass projectiles, while likely operating a tool that can allow a distracted individual to kill someone.

Many gun aficionados do in fact relish the rain of hot brass at the gun range as an integral part of the sport, presumably because that kind of thing is what happens on a military battlefield. Those folks can handle the distraction and the risk of burns and other injuries, and may even brag about their scars as badges of honor. There are lots of arguments out there as to the etiquette surrounding givers and receivers of hot brass at the range, but this is not the kind of environment that is consistent with "a culture of safety".

Semi-automatic weapons have distinct functional elements that greatly increase their risk of causing unintentional injury or death over manual-reloading weapons. The presence of hot brass flying around is sufficient to turn a relatively safe recreational shooting environment into a high risk zone, not to mention that you usually need to be diligent enough to -unload- the gun (by clearing the chamber) after firing it vs. taking action to load it before you use it.

It is understandable for families to want to teach their children how to safely use firearms. This is very doable.

Teaching people how to maintain line-of-fire and finger-on-trigger discipline when a hot piece of metal gets lodged next to their skin and they are undergoing a second degree burn is another story. Teaching them how to do this when they are operating a semi-auto (which is by definition always loaded and ready to fire when in active use) is insane.

This is yet another reason why semi-autos need to be more strictly regulated that manual-reloading firearms. We don't let people with a regular driver's license drive an 18-wheeler, because there are aspects of the vehicle that bring much higher risk. We don't let them drive kids in a school bus because of the risk.

Users of semi-autos need to be licensed to a higher standard. Untrained people may be able to follow basic rules applicable to all guns such as don't ever point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy, and keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to destroy something. On the other hand, they do not have the discipline to react calmly when being actively burned. They do not have the foresight to ensure that their ejected casings are not endangering themselves or anyone. They do not have the diligence to wear appropriate clothing in a hot brass zone- things that are basic standards for a metal shop to keep people safe. They do not have the diligence to make sure that they remove the automatically-loaded cartridge from the chamber when they are done using it, and store the weapon in a hardened location.

If you don't secure your 18 wheeler properly and it rolls down the hill and takes out someone's house you will lose your commercial license. If you slack on semi-automatic safety or you aren't aware enough to avoid risky situations where you kill people you shouldn't be allowed to use one.

[MariaThinks]

82. this man loves his guns more than his kids or the son he killed with a gun

his words are horrible and the irony that the guns keep his family safe are completely lost on this killer.

[Iggo]

84. He still thinks guns keep his family safe. (n/t)

[jpak]

83. Douchebag to the end - even after he killed his son

Gun Kulture uber alles

yup

[Generic Brad]

85. So...how would his son have accidentally died if he hadn't had the gun?

His statement defies logic.

[busterbrown]

88. Best comment award...On my thread.

Tell me the bar you drink at and I’ll call with my credit card...and I tip!

[baldguy]

90. Eagar & willing to sacrifice both his son & himself to the gun gods.