Gay cop worries first Pride could be his last after Black Lives Matter calls for ban

[oberliner]

It was a day of extreme emotions for Const. Chuck Krangle, a Toronto police officer and a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces.

Despite working in the city for eight years, Krangle, who is openly gay, had never been to Toronto’s Pride parade. But this year brought his chance to attend when he was assigned to work Sunday’s parade.

Krangle was blown away — by the spectacle, by the fun, and by the number of fellow officers taking part.

“I was like ‘woah, what a coming together,’ ” Krangle, 30, said in an interview. “I had no idea that there were that many cops that march in this, from all different agencies,” he said, adding that one of the highlights was speaking with Toronto police chief and parade-goer Mark Saunders.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/07/04/gay-toronto-cop-objects-to-black-lives-matters-call-for-ban.html

[King_David]

1. Pride Toronto backtracks from Black Lives Matter promises

Pride Toronto is backing away from the promises made to Black Lives Matter Toronto during a protest that temporarily shut down the Pride Parade.

“My priority yesterday was to make the parade move,” Mathieu Chantelois, the executive director of Pride Toronto, told CP24 the following day on July 4, 2016. “Frankly, Black Lives Matter is not going to tell us that there are no more floats anymore in the parade.”

Instead, Chantelois said it is up to the community and the membership of Pride Toronto to determine whether or not the police should march in Pride.


http://www.dailyxtra.com/toronto/news-and-ideas/news/pride-toronto-backtracks-from-black-lives-matter-promises-196966

[romanic]

11. Good.

BLM Toronto's demands don't have much weight and they don't represent every single black LGBT person anyway. Pride Toronto can be inclusive (I haven't seen any evidence that they weren't) without their help. Frankly if BLM Toronto kicks a fit and decides to target the LGBT community in Toronto, then we will see where their intentions really lie.

[King_David]

2. Pride Toronto

Pride Toronto
5 hrs ·
Pride Toronto would like to thank everyone for participating in our history-making, first-ever, Pride Month. Thank you for coming to sit with us and taking part in a safe and successful Pride.
We are committed to creating a safe and inclusive festival for everyone and hearing from our whole community and stakeholders, including the most marginalized voices, on how to do so.
Pride Toronto never agreed to exclude police services from the Pride parade. Law enforcement are critical to ensuring a safe festival and parade. Toronto Police will continue to lead security planning for future parades and we thank them for their efforts. We have had, and will continue to have, discussions with the police about the nature of their involvement as parade participants.
This August, Pride Toronto will host a public Townhall to gather feedback about the 2016 festival. In advance of the meeting, we invite you to share your thoughts by contacting: [e-mail]
We look forward to hearing from you,
Pride Toronto
539 Likes102 Comments93 Shares

https://www.facebook.com/PrideToronto/posts/10154254208122037

[Skittles]

3. stereotyping is OK, unless it is LEO

WTF is wrong with BLM?

[KMOD]

7. Some LEO get it, some don't.

Much like the public.

[Skittles]

9. and excluding them would accomplish.....exactly WHAT?

totally ridiculous

[KMOD]

13. No one is asking for them to completed excluded.

The only exclusion asked for is that there not be armed, uniformed officers on parade floats in the Pride parade.

That really is not a lot to ask for, and it certainly will open dialogue over the next year as to how to address the issues of the black LGBT members.

[Skittles]

14. really?

[KMOD]

16. Yes, really.

No. 8 - no police floats.

What's the tragedy here? They have a whole year to talk this out.

[Skittles]

17. is that REALLY what No. 8 says?

ALRIGHTY THEN

[KMOD]

20. What do you think it says?

[hack89]

33. What about police booths in spaces other than the parade?

do you agree with BLM on that as well?

[oberliner]

39. Why do there need to be more Black deaf and hearing ASL interpreters?

Why would race be relevant in this area?

[pnwmom]

4. It seems to me that letting the police have a float would promote unity.

Isn't that the aim?

[KMOD]

8. A two way street would be better.

[pnwmom]

10. I'm not sure what you're getting at. n/t

[KMOD]

12. The police are not the ones who

have had their rights violated.

[pnwmom]

15. Gay police have also been discriminated against. There are probably many

who feel they have to be in the closet.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/MemphisGaydar/archives/2016/05/20/gay-memphis-police-officer-sues-the-city-for-discrimination

MPD's LGBTQ liaison role was re-started in 2014 after a lull in participation, and Clemons was the first MPD officer named to the role after its re-launch. In that role, he's responsible for helping to build trust between the LGBTQ community and the police department. But Clemons alleges that role has backfired, causing some superior officers to discriminate against him because he is gay.

After being appointed as liaison in August 2014, Clemons claims he was harassed, reprimanded, and humiliated by other officers.

Much of the discrimination came from an officer named as Lt. Hulsey in the lawsuit. One incident says Hulsey approached Clemons on Beale on July 4th, 2014, and "yelled and degraded Officer Clemons in front of thousands of citizens at a Fourth of July event. ... Officer Clemons believes that Lt. Hulsey engaged in this behavior due to sexual stereotypes and, in particular, a belief that Officer Clemons was not sufficiently masculine, was too feminine, or due to a belief that men should only date women, not other men."

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/04/20/gay-d-c-cop-alleges-harassment-in-lawsuit/

Former MPD Officer Christopher Lilly charges in his lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia that he was subjected to repeated anti-gay name-calling and other forms of harassment, including the placement of AIDS stickers on his locker.

The lawsuit names the city and the MPD as defendants. It accuses the MPD, among other things, of discriminating against him on the basis of his sexual orientation and gender.

It says the harassment and discrimination against Lilly began in December 2010 when “without Plaintiff Lilly’s knowledge or consent, his sexual orientation, homosexual, was publicized, maliciously and intentionally” at the Fourth District.

“Following Plaintiff Lilly’s ‘outing,’ any officer to come into contact with Plaintiff Lilly subjected him to scrutiny, retaliation and ridicule by means of vulgar language, slandering his name and abilities to function as a police officer and questioning his abilities to serve due to his sexual orientation,” the lawsuit says.

It says the alleged harassment escalated in January 2011 when after returning from duty Lilly “found his locker plastered with Blair Underwood posters, forty (40) District of Columbia HIV magnets stuck to his locker and a large ‘spurt’ looking puddle of unknown white liquid meant to simulate ejaculation.”

[KMOD]

18. of course they have.

Look, I'm not anti-police. I have three close friends who are current serving officers and five friends who are retired from service.

And we all agree. It isn't the police who are being discriminated against.

[pnwmom]

22. But gay policeman are discriminated against, just like gay people in other fields. n/t

[KMOD]

24. Of course they are.

We are not in disagreement here.

[loyalsister]

52. A float is a way of honoring and celebrating LOE

The fact that so many have killed people of color is considered a problem - at least by BLM. It makes giving police a spot where people are celebrating PRIDE in themselves as they are reasonably objectionable.

[Behind the Aegis]

5. That is a shame.

Seems if you are gay and cop, some seem to think you shouldn't be allowed to consider yourself part of the LGBT community. Shame.

[KMOD]

6. That is not the situation at all.

Of course LGBT police officers will be included.

And of course police officers in general are included.

What the black LGBT members asked for is that armed and uniformed police officers not be included on parade floats.

This brouhaha is way overkill and clearly shows that we are still a long way from understanding race relations.

Thankfully, the folks involved do get it, and dialogue has been opened.

Almost all members of the Canadian Pride group, the Canadian Police Departments, and the Canadian public view this as helpful progress.

Some DUers seem angry, but I don't put much salt into their feelings, since most of them are not Canadian, LGBT, or black.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. I am gay.

What I don't need is the privileged, heterosexuals, dictating how my community should or shouldn't handle itself. You are also wrong in saying "What the black LGBT members asked for is that armed and uniformed police officers not be included on parade floats. "





There it is, number 8, they aren't asking for removal of "armed and uniformed police officers not be included on parade floats".

What this shows we are still a long way from understanding issues of sexual orientation.

[KMOD]

23. No. 8 - Removal of Police floats?

May I ask why that angers you so very much?

I always try to learn by listening. But I truly don't understand the ire here.

I'm not hearing the same ire from my real life gay friends, or police friends.

But I truly would like to listen and learn as to where your anger is coming from.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Because GAY cops are part of the GAY community.

It is very simple. And, so we are perfectly clear, it isn't the single issue of the police floats, it is the condescending attitude from privileged persons telling us how our community shouldn't and should be.

[Aerows]

26. And to not only bolster

and reiterate your point, the attitude we are receiving after we've already been slapped in the face is adding insult to injury.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Yes it is!

That's why we are hearing about "some of my best friends" and other trite expressions, which when used against our community, are often excused and dismissed as us being "too sensitive and angry."

[KMOD]

58. My cousin received an award

for exemplary service in his handling of a case involving a male domestic abuse victim. I would be more than happy to provide a link to you, as I am very proud of him.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. And?

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

[KMOD]

27. black people are not

condescending privileged people. That's just ridiculous.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. I didn't say they were.

The "condescending privileged people" aren't African-American. You do realize there are more issues of diversity than ethnicity and race, right?

[Aerows]

31. Notice that this person

is decrying things that they are espousing in their own posts.

They elected themselves "Speaker of all black people".

[Aerows]

30. You speak for all black people suddenly?

That isn't condescending at *all*. /s

[KMOD]

57. I am not the only person of this opinion.

http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/update-pride-action-by-black-lives-matter-important-for-lgbtq-communities-fred-hahn-2139575.htm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/black-lives-matter-is-dramatic-unsettling-and-inconvenient-thats-the-point/article30758467/

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/05/single-float-for-police-might-be-compromise-teitel.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/black-lives-pride-1.3665955

[kevinbgoode1]

35. And this doesn't bring up the rather obvious notion that there are very likely BLACK gay cops too

so the exclusion demand isn't just about cops in general, or even gay cops, but black cops too.

[yardwork]

45. Well, I'm gay and I'm very angry.

It is very, very important that uniformed police officers march openly in gay pride parades. Their doing so was an incredible step forward.

I won't go into all the reasons for this. If you are interested, please do some reading.

[JanMichael]

56. What about the armed bodies that were in Little Rock?

"In the following weeks, Judge Davies began legal proceedings against Governor Faubus, and President Dwight D. Eisenhower attempted to persuade Faubus to remove the National Guard and let the Little Rock Nine enter the school.

Davies ordered the Guard removed on September 20, and the Little Rock Police Department took over to maintain order.

The police escorted the nine African-American students into the school on September 23, through an angry mob of some 1,000 white protesters gathered outside.

Amidst ensuing rioting, the police removed the nine students.

On September 24, President Eisenhower sent in 1,200 members of the U.S. Army’s 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and placed them in charge of the 10,000 National Guardsmen on duty. Escorted by the troops, the Little Rock Nine attended their first full day of classes on September 25."

I'd rather have the 101st, or those Little Rock cops, in any parade that supported basic human rights. Of course once the melee was over the racist asshats got their way again. But man it was awesome seeing those 101st airborne soldiers back down the nasty pieces of shit. They weren't about to do shit with those guys there.

An interesting bit about Eisenhower:

"Eisenhower’s decision surprised many Americans. He did not favor integration. Born in 1890, he grew up in a segregated society and served for more than 30 years in a segregated army. Not long after the Brown decision, he remarked, “You can’t change people’s hearts merely by laws.” He also told reporters that he could not imagine a situation in which he would use federal troops to enforce integration. Yet after watching events in Little Rock, he ordered federal troops to the city to enforce the law. He told the American people: “Our personal opinions about the [Brown] decision have no bearing on the matter of enforcement. . . . Mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.”[7]

The editors of the New York Amsterdam News, a newspaper geared toward the African American community, said of the President’s decision:

It is not too difficult for a man to stand up and fight for a cause with which he himself believes to be right. But it is quite another thing for a man to stand up and fight for a cause with which he himself does not agree but which he feels it is his duty to uphold. President Eisenhower is a battle-scarred veteran of many a campaign who has been hailed from one end of the world to the other. But we submit that his victory over himself at Little Rock was indeed his finest hour.[8]"

[cwydro]

34. I agree.

BLM has overreached on this one.

[Democat]

21. Why not demand that all gay people be banned from the parade?

They could demand that it becomes a BLM parade instead.

[oberliner]

38. Or at least all white gay people

It it fascinating to see the targets that BLM chooses.

[LostOne4Ever]

32. I support the ENTIRE LGBTQIA+ community

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=3 color=#009999]Whether they be black, white, brown, or any other skin color.

I also support the ALL the community regardless of whether they be civilian, law enforcement, or military.

And I believe they should ALL be represented, and that there should be room for a law-enforcement float if LGBTQ Law enforcement want one.

Finally, I believe this divisiveness is harmful. I fully understand that BLM is speaking out for people who have been mistreated by the police constantly, and I appreciate their commitment for standing up for them. However, I feel this particular demand (#8) is mistaken. and only helps those who want to pit one LGBTQ person against one and another.

I believe the ultimate goals of both pride and BLM would better be served through inclusion. LGBTQ police are still LGBTQ and are important for full LGBTQ acceptance. Further, having voices in law enforcement helps create the reforms needed to end the violence against the black community. Rather than exclude, it seems to me banding together would help everyone.

Simply put, I feel we are all stronger together than we ever will be apart.

These are my own opinions, and I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself.[/font]

[Proud Liberal Dem]

51. Well spoken! Captured my thoughts perfectly!

Love your anime avatar too (anime fan here)!

[LostOne4Ever]

53. Thank you!!!

Last edited Wed Jul 6, 2016, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999][center]Otaku Pride![/font]

[/center]

[Chemisse]

36. Why has communication and cooperation been replaced with bullying?

Toronto had one group holding another group's event hostage and making demands to release it.

Did BLM even talk to the Pride organizers about its concerns? Can't they find a different way to get publicity about the plight of black LGTB?

I just don't like these strong-arm tactics that BLM has been engaging in. They had a huge groundswell of support following the shootings in Ferguson and elsewhere. But their leaders have brought them down a path that marginalizes the group, turns off many supporters, and provides more fuel for racists.

[oberliner]

37. BLM specifically stated that they did not talk to the Pride organizers ahead of time

So that they could have this action.

Remember, they were asked to be one of the honored guests of the parade.

[romanic]

48. It makes me wonder what their grievances are then.

If BLM weren't invited to the Pride parade then I would give them that and understand why they demanded inclusivity.

But since they were invited as honorary guests, I take thier demands less seriously since being invited to the parade showed the event was being inclusive to black LGBTers. IMO they just wanted to halt the parade for attention and to take a swipe at police publicly.

[oberliner]

50. My take is that they saw the invitation as an opportunity to bring attention to specific issues

It seems like the law enforcement one in particular was the most controversial of those. The other demands would probably have been agreed to easily in a meeting ahead of time.

[JonathanRackham]

40. Turnabout is fair play.

Let the LBGT community halt the next BLM protest.

[oberliner]

41. Maybe they can demand that BLM address homophobia among African-Americans

Certainly an issue that needs addressing.

[JonathanRackham]

49. Yes.

[Odin2005]

42. BLM has officially jumped the shark.

Apparently they have descended to the "every cop is an evil oppressor pig who should be shot" level.

[anoNY42]

43. No word on whether

BLM will allow gay native americans, gay construction workers, gay bikers, or any other members of the Village People from bring on floats as well.

[yardwork]

44. As a gay person, this makes me very angry.

[Yo_Mama]

46. These BLMers really do not have a clue. This is worrisome, because

the problem of police violence/corruption/mistreatment is very serious.

[Marr]

47. BLM seems a lot more interested in making enemies than allies. /nt

[Kang Colby]

54. Just pay BLM no mind.

They think *only* heterosexual black lives matter. Truth is, all lives matter.

[ashtonelijah]

55. Police came to the rescue at Pulse after 49 people did. How dare BLM....

Waltz in and try to tell LGBT people how to do things. Black Lives Matter protesters decided, that mere weeks after 49 gay people and their friends were shot dead in a club, and after which dozens were saved by law enforcement, that they would use their invitation to a gay pride parade to stage a hissy fit in the midst of it, shut down the parade, and give a list of demands to LGBT people -- part of which was that law enforcement (the guys who came to our rescue just weeks ago, some of whom are LGBT) not be allowed a float in the parade.

And BLM decided to do this, after having done nothing substantive for the cause of gay rights. They weren't even wearing any rainbows or anything to show support of pride. All they cared about was their own agenda, the memory of dead LGBT people in Orlando and the pride which their lives stood for be damned. Intersectionality? That was the moment you were invited as honored guests to take part in a pride parade, despite having really done nothing to deserve the honor. And you used it to insult and attempt to hold hostage those who extended that to you.

And you say, oh, LGBT law enforcement can be there -- just not as law enforcement. You still have to keep that part of yourself closeted at gay pride events, because BLM demands it.

Quite frankly, this group of BLM folks can go to hell. Screw them and their arrogant, homophobic, authoritarian attempt to take over OUR pride event.

I have defended BLM for years. And I'm done with it. And I'm done with them. Between this and their repeated insults hurled at civil rights heroes like John Lewis, I'm just done.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

62. And don't forget 90% of the Orlando victims

were Latinos. This is not something I've been seeing BLM bring up either, except in the context of white supremacy or some nonsense that is inapplicable and inappropriate to what happened.

[Oneironaut]

60. BLM - 'Stop telling us what to do,' tells another oppressed group what to do.

[X_Digger]

61. And the irony goes right over their head, even when you try to explain. *sigh* n/t