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malaise

(271,688 posts)
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 07:26 AM Jul 2016

MUST READ - The war in Iraq was not a blunder or a mistake. It was a crime

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/blair-chilcot-war-in-iraq-not-blunder-crime
<snip>
Tony Blair is damned. We have seen establishment whitewashes in the past: from Bloody Sunday to Hillsborough, officialdom has repeatedly conspired to smother truth in the interests of the powerful. But not this time. The Chilcot inquiry was becoming a satirical byword for taking farcically long to execute a task; but Sir John will surely go down in history for delivering the most comprehensively devastating verdict on any modern prime minister.

Those of us who marched against the Iraq calamity can feel no vindication, only misery that we failed to prevent a disaster that robbed hundreds of thousands of lives – those of 179 British soldiers among them – and which injured, traumatised and displaced millions of people: a disaster that bred extremism on a catastrophic scale.

One legacy of Chilcot should be to encourage us to be bolder in challenging authority, in being sceptical of official claims, in standing firm against an aggressive agenda spun by the media. Lessons must be learned, the war’s supporters will now declare. Don’t let them get away with it. The lessons were obvious to many of us before the bombs started falling.

For what Chilcot has done is illustrate that assertions from the anti-war movement were not conspiracy theories, or far-fetched, wild-eyed claims. “Increasingly, we appear to have a government who are looking for a pretext for war rather than its avoidance,” declared the anti-war Labour MP Alan Simpson weeks before the invasion. And indeed, as Chilcot revealed, Blair had told George W Bush in July 2002: “I will be with you, whatever.”
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MUST READ - The war in Iraq was not a blunder or a mistake. It was a crime (Original Post) malaise Jul 2016 OP
This is not news to most. peace13 Jul 2016 #1
+1,000 malaise Jul 2016 #3
What? Can't hear you! chapdrum Jul 2016 #50
I remember about six years ago watching Rachel Maddow, when Akamai Jul 2016 #54
Are we really supposed to believe that governments, media corps, etc., Frank Cannon Jul 2016 #5
+1,000 malaise Jul 2016 #11
the truth is heaven05 Jul 2016 #34
Gee, they ban you here if the important folk deem anything "consiracy theory" n/t Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #36
Blair was Bush/Cheney's poodle Martin Eden Jul 2016 #2
But there's no discussion in the US malaise Jul 2016 #4
Exactly Martin Eden Jul 2016 #12
The US is behaving like an empire malaise Jul 2016 #13
I don't know what we can do yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #18
way more important for Repugs to investigate the investigations NoMoreRepugs Jul 2016 #28
Bush and Cheney had a kennel of poodles beating the drums for their war. All deserve our contempt. Scuba Jul 2016 #15
I hope none of them were Democrats Martin Eden Jul 2016 #24
Resistance if future and the past does not matter. Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #37
Not in my morning paper at all. Octafish Jul 2016 #6
Of course not malaise Jul 2016 #10
My mistake! Freep buried story at bottom of ''U.S./World'' column on page 2 of print edition... Octafish Jul 2016 #16
Folks are only just now finding this out? Blue_Tires Jul 2016 #7
Of course the Iraq war was a crime. joshdawg Jul 2016 #8
Along with everyone who enabled them n/t arcane1 Jul 2016 #27
Are there enough prisons? We could cast a wide net and create a ruckus here for doing so. n/t Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #38
K&R... spanone Jul 2016 #9
935 lies by w bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and so on Botany Jul 2016 #14
935 lies by w bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and so on AlbertCat Jul 2016 #17
But OMG let's make sure we draw and quarter Hillary for some stupid emails... calimary Jul 2016 #19
+1,000! maddiemom Jul 2016 #23
What justice could we have reached if THIS level of inquisition had been applied to kkkarl rove, calimary Jul 2016 #25
Hillary Schmillary AlbertCat Jul 2016 #26
Actually, I did have a problem with her vote. I supported Barack Obama in 2008 calimary Jul 2016 #31
If I had been her I still would have voted against. chknltl Jul 2016 #46
So the emails can be played into a useful distraction by those with different agendas? n/t Wisc Progressive Jul 2016 #39
"How could anyone have voted to let such a obvious scam proceed?" Botany Jul 2016 #22
How?? $$$. They were paid; they profited. lastlib Jul 2016 #52
The word is obfuscation malaise Jul 2016 #20
Lying About WMD's Was A Crime - Will Never Be Prosecuted Yallow Jul 2016 #21
You're right malaise Jul 2016 #30
I think that "looking for a pretext for war" is evil. Electric Monk Jul 2016 #29
You see shadowmayor Jul 2016 #32
You know what's tragic about this? matt819 Jul 2016 #33
Been thinking about the two SAS captured in Basra and how the mask slipped suffragette Jul 2016 #35
BBC kept changing the story. OnyxCollie Jul 2016 #41
Yep. DU is a great source for that history, since people here posted the evolving suffragette Jul 2016 #45
Nothing will convince me that it wasn't men like these who blew up that malaise Jul 2016 #51
The Iraq War paved the way for the humanitarian tragedy that is present in that region today IgelJames4 Jul 2016 #40
The Democratic Party Honor Roll: bvar22 Jul 2016 #42
The remaining cowards pretended "Oh, that clever Bush fooled me with his guile!" arcane1 Jul 2016 #43
+155 Martin Eden Jul 2016 #53
I believe this story has been stored since 2003 in the file marked "N S, S." WinkyDink Jul 2016 #44
Yup. The one person I would vote for in an instant sangfroid Jul 2016 #47
The bush cartel The Wizard Jul 2016 #48
There are still Republicans in office today who claim Iraq was behind 9/11. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2016 #49
Now we are on the verge of Invading Libya and Syria, and who's cheering that on? Ford_Prefect Jul 2016 #55
 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
1. This is not news to most.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 07:36 AM
Jul 2016

The press has simply decided to print it now. Conspiracy theory is a word used by cruel, thieving people to cover up their own misdeeds. So tired of the term and the label....

 

Akamai

(1,779 posts)
54. I remember about six years ago watching Rachel Maddow, when
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:50 AM
Jul 2016

she asked Frank Rich of the NY Times why he didn't cover the release of the Downing Street Memos (showing that the Brits and Blair were happy to make up facts to support the Iraq War), Frank effing Rich smilingly said, "Well everyone already knew Bush was a liar."

And I had previously thought that Frank Rich was one of the good guys.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
5. Are we really supposed to believe that governments, media corps, etc.,
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:33 AM
Jul 2016

give a rat's ass whether a few thousand Americans die or are maimed if it means BILLIONS in additional revenue for the corporations they serve? Are we really supposed to believe that Dick Cheney has such love for his fellow American in his heart? Because that's a wacky theory, right there.


No conspiracy or collusion needed to take place among all the players. They ALL had the same agenda: to make as much money as possible. The rest was just peddling the same line of bullshit and pretending that any of it made any sense to a rational person.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
34. the truth is
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:10 PM
Jul 2016

money and power rules......the rest of us are not significant in their sphere of existence. We are cannon fodder for them, consumers to drive their obscene profit acquisition and people to be manipulated by their media conglomerates to do their bidding.

Martin Eden

(13,016 posts)
2. Blair was Bush/Cheney's poodle
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:15 AM
Jul 2016

If Blair is damned, multiply that x10 for the US Vice President and Dim Son.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
18. I don't know what we can do
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:09 AM
Jul 2016

We are not part of The Hague. Does congress investigate? Justice department? AG? Our system is a bit more difficult then Europe.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,795 posts)
28. way more important for Repugs to investigate the investigations
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:48 PM
Jul 2016

into the investigations of HRC's server - cuz it's all about impressions ya know - facts be damned

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
15. Bush and Cheney had a kennel of poodles beating the drums for their war. All deserve our contempt.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:29 AM
Jul 2016
 

Wisc Progressive

(51 posts)
37. Resistance if future and the past does not matter.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:51 PM
Jul 2016

The collective good and unity is more important than pesky facts that dirty our beautiful minds.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
6. Not in my morning paper at all.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:37 AM
Jul 2016

The Detroit Free Press had zero coverage.

Seems to be some kind of news blackout, like a co...co...coincidence.

malaise

(271,688 posts)
10. Of course not
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:44 AM
Jul 2016

Bush's response is that the world is better without Saddam. M$Greedia is fine with that - and so are many others.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
16. My mistake! Freep buried story at bottom of ''U.S./World'' column on page 2 of print edition...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:45 AM
Jul 2016

...nothing about war crimes. Nothing about lying the USA and UK into war. Much about no letters from Bush to Blair.

Online, nothing at all.

joshdawg

(2,679 posts)
8. Of course the Iraq war was a crime.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:41 AM
Jul 2016

Anyone with an IQ above 10 would know that.

Blair, bush, the DICK, rummy and the rest of that gang of thugs need to be locked up for a very, very long time.

Botany

(71,062 posts)
14. 935 lies by w bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and so on
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:25 AM
Jul 2016
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/01/23/BL2008012301758.html

We have 10,000 + dead US troops (4,862 KIAs & God knows how many brain cancers from
KBR's burn pits, and suicides)

ISIS

millions of refugees

car bombings

God knows how many dead Iraqis

trillions of $s wasted

as a result of that war but what we really need to do is look @ HRC's emails.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
17. 935 lies by w bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, and so on
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:06 AM
Jul 2016

Even the proles and middle-class knew it was bunk.

How could anyone have voted to let such a obvious scam proceed?

calimary

(82,444 posts)
19. But OMG let's make sure we draw and quarter Hillary for some stupid emails...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:12 AM
Jul 2016

And let's be sure we've investigated all the way into her underwear drawer and down all her plumbing pipes because surely we MUST have missed something last time...

There MUST be a pony! Under all that horse shit, there simply MUST be a pony...

calimary

(82,444 posts)
31. Actually, I did have a problem with her vote. I supported Barack Obama in 2008
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:25 PM
Jul 2016

much as I was as big a fan of Hillary's back then as I am now. That vote was the ONLY thing that separated them in my mind, and the ONLY thing that pushed me into the Obama column.

But since then, I have heard her explain why. And I can fully understand, accept, and sympathize with her reasoning - why she trusted dubya on this. She was misled, FOR SURE, on the Iraq War vote. But she gave him the benefit of the doubt based on previous personal experience, and it sounded completely valid to me.

Here's what she explained:
After 9/11, she, as a Senator representing New York (coincidence! That's where 9/11 hit!) went to the White House for funding for the first responders OF 9/11 - that they get the health care and all the assistance they needed, fully-funded, no questions asked.
Guess what happened? dubya was pResident at the time she made her request for that additional funding for the 9/11 responders.
He promised her personally that she'd get that funding.
Guess what happened after that? That same george w. bush, the asshole squatter in Al Gore's White House and future war criminal (whom we all despise for multiple good reasons, myself VERY much included) made good on his promise. She GOT that additional funding that she'd asked for, for this key group of her constituents and fellow New Yorkers. And right away, too, as she recalled.
She then concluded he had passed some sort of test - that if he said something, she could count on it - and in this case almost literally take it to the bank. Frankly, knowing how I personally feel about that bastard, I was surprised to hear this. I'd never heard it before. He kept his promise? He was true to his word and backed it up and delivered on it as he said? SERIOUSLY??? That doesn't sound like the dry-drunk I know. But that's what he did.
Hillary then explained that, based on this template, this experience she'd just had with him, she therefore had no reason NOT to believe him on other things. After all, he sure came through for her on this matter. Surprising, I know.
So when he presented his case for the Iraq War vote, she took him at his word, and gave him the benefit of the doubt.

She, and the rest of us, couldn't foresee that he would use that vote in bad faith, to go ahead with his already pre-decided plans to go straight to war.

All she had was first-hand experience where she asked for something and trusted him, and he came through for her.

Under THOSE circumstances, I would have to give HER the benefit of the doubt. She trusted him based on direct past personal experience of him having proven to be worthy of that trust. How could she know he'd do an about-face and pull a fast one - on her and on everyone else? WE certainly didn't trust him but then again, don't forget, WE'RE partisans. We're wired not to trust him. She had to work with him and he'd passed the test with her.

So, my friend, I have to accept that. I STILL disagree with her vote. I HAD, in the past, felt that she should have known enough not to trust him, and vote against it. But I have since learned that she DID know - enough, anyway, to give him the benefit of the doubt after that. I'm sure when it all started to shake out, she probably felt betrayed - that this wasn't the same seemingly sympathetic and even-handed dude she'd asked for - AND QUICKLY RECEIVED - funding assistance for her state's 9/11 first responders.

Knowing that context, if I were her, I might actually have done something similar.

I feel differently about her Iraq War vote now, having learned the context in which she decided to vote the way she did, and to trust that he'd do the right thing, considering those details of her direct experience with him, surrounding and leading up to it. When I learned what went into it, and WHY she voted the way she did, I changed my mind about it.

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
46. If I had been her I still would have voted against.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:09 PM
Jul 2016

It was obvious back then that GW was trying to gin up reasons to go back to war with Iraq. Hindsight tells us that we were right.

We knew Saddam was not about to use WMD against anyone... even if he still had some stashed away somewhere hidden. We were right.

We knew back then that Cheney was looking to profit from Iraqi oil in some way shape or form, again history proves us right.

I am no genius political wonk, I'm just an average DUer...Did Senator Clinton make a trade with the devil? I guess it all comes down to a matter of who you choose to trust. Had I been in her shoes I would not have trusted President Bush. History proves that those who did not trust him were right.

Botany

(71,062 posts)
22. "How could anyone have voted to let such a obvious scam proceed?"
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:25 AM
Jul 2016

We didn't. Please see Florida 2000 and bush v Gore and Ohio 2004.

For w to have won in 2004 everybody who voted for him in 2000 had to have voted
for him in 2004 so nonoe of those voters could have died, not voted, or voted for Kerry
in 2004. Along with that >80% of all newly registered voters had to have voted for
w if the final vote count was correct.

On election day 2004 Karen Hughes went to w bush and told him he had lost and w
just laughed. The fix was in.

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
21. Lying About WMD's Was A Crime - Will Never Be Prosecuted
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:19 AM
Jul 2016

If there is money to be made by our owners, delivering it in any way will never be punished, regardless how many laws are broken.

Deal with it.

shadowmayor

(1,325 posts)
32. You see
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:11 PM
Jul 2016

We gotta fight 'em over there, so we don't fight 'em over here! We call that strategery here in Texas. And how's that workin' out for you lil' Shrub?

matt819

(10,749 posts)
33. You know what's tragic about this?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 02:13 PM
Jul 2016

President Obama chose to "look forward" when he came to office and not revisit the 9/11 attacks and investigate a former administration's mistakes. You really can't look forward when you don't fully understand what happened. Sad to say, this report will change nothing, except perhaps how history views this travesty. Bush, Blair et al are not going to be tried for anything. No one at that level is going to jail.

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
35. Been thinking about the two SAS captured in Basra and how the mask slipped
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:48 PM
Jul 2016

Remember when the two disguised and heavily armed SAS men were captured, then were busted out of Iraqi jail using tanks? Only it turned out they weren't even in the jail, but were in a building nearby and apparently were then freed through negotiation. In the course of this, both Iraqis and British were killed and injured, including the Iraqi police officer they shot and a British soldier who was pictured on fire as he tried to escape his tank.




What were they doing in the marketplace, disguised, heavily armed and carrying a bomb or incendiary devices? Layers upon layers of obfuscation followed the incident.

Lie upon lie clouded by misdirection and obfuscation and backed up with violence.
All while some people died and others lined their pockets in any and every way they could.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
41. BBC kept changing the story.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jul 2016

At one point they were reported to be in negotiations, after an earlier story reported the tank being driven through the wall.

I regret not saving the stories as PDF's.

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
45. Yep. DU is a great source for that history, since people here posted the evolving
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jul 2016

stories as they happened, along with links.

Some links are broken now, but we still have the actual history of much of what was written at the time due to the threads here. And the links that still work lead back to articles.

The DU archive is incredibly deep in that way. I hope it never disappears.

Here are two of the many threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4819548

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4825585

Here is one of the BBC evolving stories, full of remarks about "in the right direction," merely "local" and "unfortunate development."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4264614.stm

And here's a brief and blunt Democracy Now synopsis of the UK breaking the SAS men out:
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/9/20/headlines/uk_forces_attack_iraqi_jail_to_free_two_british_troops

UK Forces Attack Iraqi Jail To Free Two British Troops
SEPTEMBER 20, 2005HEADLINES
New questions about Iraq’s sovereignty are being raised after British forces attacked an Iraqi jail on Monday because they believed two detained British commandos were inside. British troops opened fire on the jail in Basra and used six armored vehicles to smash down the jail’s walls as helicopter gunships flew overhead. The provincial governor of Basra described the British assault as "barbaric, savage and irresponsible." The Associated Press reported 150 prisoners escaped during the siege. As the British raided the prison, Iraqis started attacking the British vehicles with firebombs and rockets. One of the British armored fighting vehicles was set ablaze. Photos showed a British soldier on fire climbing out of the hatch and jumping to the ground, as a crowd pelted him. An Iraqi official said that the British soldiers were arrested after they had fired at an Iraqi police officer. At the time the British soldiers were undercover and dressed as Iraqis. After the prison was breached in Basra, the two soldiers were found not to be in the jail but in a nearby house. The British Army attempted to downplay the incident claiming that the men were released after negotiations. The government said it feared for the lives of the British commandos after discovering they had been handed to "militia elements". The British attack on the Iraqi jail came one day after British forces arrested three members of the Shiite Mahdi Army.

malaise

(271,688 posts)
51. Nothing will convince me that it wasn't men like these who blew up that
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:49 PM
Jul 2016

historical mosque. Chaos is what was wanted.

 

IgelJames4

(50 posts)
40. The Iraq War paved the way for the humanitarian tragedy that is present in that region today
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:54 PM
Jul 2016

Such a terrible shame. Bush and his minions deserve to rot in prison for the destruction they caused.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
42. The Democratic Party Honor Roll:
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jul 2016

It should be remembered that the majority of Democrats votes "NO" on the IWR. Only a minority turned their backs on the Democratic Party, crossed the aisle, and helped Bush/Cheney & Co. Get their WAR on. It was only a minority of Democrats, but it was enough for Bush for Bush to smirk into the microphones and say, "The Democrats voted FOR it too. It was a bi-partisan decision!!!" I cringed inside every time I had to hear him say those words.


[font size=5]The Democratic Party Honor Roll[/font]
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled STAND against the rush to WAR in a Politically Hostile environment. These Democrats had the integrity to STAND against what they KNEW at the time was a WAR CRIME.

The Authorization to use Military Force in Iraq (AUMF)
AKA The Iraq War Resolution



In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)



In the United States House of Representatives,

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democrats:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu


(Apologies for the Loss of Data.
I'll have to fix that.)



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
43. The remaining cowards pretended "Oh, that clever Bush fooled me with his guile!"
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:12 PM
Jul 2016

Except Kerry. He continued to say the war was a good idea and that he'd have done it himself if he had been president

Ford_Prefect

(8,092 posts)
55. Now we are on the verge of Invading Libya and Syria, and who's cheering that on?
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 04:27 AM
Jul 2016

Last edited Fri Jul 8, 2016, 11:05 AM - Edit history (1)

The terror flag is waved over the Syrian expedition but why exactly are we going to Libya? Oh Yeah, more terrah, and Oil and...oh yeah, terrah again.

Has anyone been paying attention to who is planting our flag in the middle east and why? Has anyone noticed the same patterns of mis-information and mission creep as occurred with Iraq and Afghanistan? Why does this get so little press?

Have you noticed who is desperate for military adventure and who rattles the sabers down in Foggy Bottom and up on the Hill?

And by the way why do we have 800-odd bases of various kinds and sizes all over Africa? Who's using them and why did the out-going commander of AFRICOM tell Congress that 400+ mission events were not discussable in the committee that oversees that particular aspect of military action and funding? Where were the NYT or the Post reporters when the committee reported out?

Does anyone here have that answer, anyone at all? The players and the song remain the same. It is only the name of the game that has changed.

Has anyone noticed a pattern of commentary on foreign policy which seems to worry about a Trump presidency kicking off more war, but no one discusses what happens if he's not president? It's as if more war could only come about if someone that extreme had the office. And for that matter how is just a bit less war than that an acceptable condition?

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