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Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:01 AM Jul 2016

America's gun culture, ladies and gentlemen....

There's a reason why this country is a worldwide laughingstock when it comes to gun control.

Do you actually think the GOP or the NRA will want to pass gun control legislation now that cops were killed?

Unlikely.

Although the GOP and the NRA care more about police officers than black people, I don't think any kind of new gun control legislation will pass Congress even after the events in Dallas.

If anything, gun sales will soar and gun control laws will become even less stringent.

And America will continue to be a worldwide laughingstock.

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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America's gun culture, ladies and gentlemen.... (Original Post) Cali_Democrat Jul 2016 OP
Sad but True. ciaobaby Jul 2016 #1
Agreed on all counts... SDJay Jul 2016 #2
You're right. This won't lead to more restrictions. Might even lead to less. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #3
We need to pass laws because our citizens are dying by the thousands every year, Cali_Democrat Jul 2016 #4
Even if every civilian had been armed, it wouldn't have prevented this. GaYellowDawg Jul 2016 #5
Indeed. Just what we need. More guns. calimary Jul 2016 #14
oh well.. HipChick Jul 2016 #6
If only the officers were armed this wouldn't have happened Hokie Jul 2016 #7
Disgusting of you to use this tragedy to promote your political agenda (nt) ansible Jul 2016 #8
... Cali_Democrat Jul 2016 #9
Welcome To DU! SoCalMusicLover Jul 2016 #11
Well, at least until after the next shooting incident... Wounded Bear Jul 2016 #12
But I see you had no problem using this tragedy to promote your political agenda. eom MohRokTah Jul 2016 #13
LOL Skittles Jul 2016 #16
I'm curious, do you consider Sterling and Castile gun humping cowards? Marengo Jul 2016 #30
Those comments are cock-strut about how much one can Still get away with on the NewDU. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #32
Yep. Think I'll get a coherent response? Marengo Jul 2016 #34
They have an enemy and a withering hatred for it. So, no. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #37
It was a political event. It should be used to pass serious gun reform. Enough. morningfog Jul 2016 #23
My neighbors, landlord, friends, etc. are all die-hard Alaskans. raven mad Jul 2016 #10
How about we confiscate all the guns? SheilaT Jul 2016 #15
It would be bad for the Gun and Ammunition business to do that. Ford_Prefect Jul 2016 #18
Hmm. I've never really considered all those who would be SheilaT Jul 2016 #21
Just Imagine all the spare time folks would have if only it wasn't taken up that way. Ford_Prefect Jul 2016 #38
Think we could start a new political party around this? SheilaT Jul 2016 #41
That's some pretty totalitarian shit, there. Odin2005 Jul 2016 #20
So step 1 is repealing the second amendment. Statistical Jul 2016 #22
Oh, I know it won't happen. SheilaT Jul 2016 #24
Why stop with the 2A? Imagine how much more safe we would be if the BOR was scrapped in entirety. Marengo Jul 2016 #31
I'm simply not okay with the level of gun violence in this country. SheilaT Jul 2016 #36
I can only assume you have no real interest in public safety in that case. Marengo Jul 2016 #39
Public safety? SheilaT Jul 2016 #40
So who's going to do that? Lizzie Poppet Jul 2016 #25
Read my response #24. SheilaT Jul 2016 #26
It clarifies some of your thinking. Intention, not so much. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2016 #29
I just had a facebook "conversation" ut oh Jul 2016 #17
Sorry, but we are not allowed to talk about the Culture of Death in this country. Rex Jul 2016 #19
No, I disagree etherealtruth Jul 2016 #27
I hope you are right. Rex Jul 2016 #28
That's the problem with it treestar Jul 2016 #33
Perhaps, Cali, you should reassess your positions completely... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #35
 

ciaobaby

(1,000 posts)
1. Sad but True.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:06 AM
Jul 2016

so many ingredients to this mess of a situation.
Overload of guns
Societal racism
Financial inequality
Do nothing government

I could go on.......

SDJay

(1,089 posts)
2. Agreed on all counts...
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:13 AM
Jul 2016

If anything, the police will now be even more armed and more likely to act in a "proactive manner" than they have been. Scary thought.

The dystopian wet dream of the NRA continues, as does the unraveling of our culture.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
3. You're right. This won't lead to more restrictions. Might even lead to less.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:14 AM
Jul 2016




Whether or not other nations laugh at us is really bad reason to make laws.
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
4. We need to pass laws because our citizens are dying by the thousands every year,
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:16 AM
Jul 2016

not because other countries are laughing at us.

The laughter is a byproduct of our stupidity.

Well...mostly it's the stupidity of the GOP, the NRA, and their supporters.

GaYellowDawg

(4,443 posts)
5. Even if every civilian had been armed, it wouldn't have prevented this.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:17 AM
Jul 2016

So much for the "good guys with guns" argument for gun ownership.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
14. Indeed. Just what we need. More guns.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:35 AM
Jul 2016

It would only have compounded the carnage. MORE gore, not less.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
6. oh well..
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:19 AM
Jul 2016

I tried to post about this before, fascination with American Gun culture is coming home to roost, but my post was instantly removed...

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
11. Welcome To DU!
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:29 AM
Jul 2016

YEAH!! It's too soon!

How many days do we need to wait before promoting a political agenda. And on a political discussion board, no less.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
32. Those comments are cock-strut about how much one can Still get away with on the NewDU.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:25 PM
Jul 2016

As long as some are labeled "The Other."

raven mad

(4,940 posts)
10. My neighbors, landlord, friends, etc. are all die-hard Alaskans.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:24 AM
Jul 2016

Own guns (hunting, mostly, or target shooting, or running the moose out of the garden when banging pots and pans and yelling don't work). None is an NRA member, and all vote Dem.

I guess I'll get in trouble for this, but NO ONE here would ever think of doing what the cops did in LA and MN. And yeah, my buddies run the gamut from black, to Native Alaskan, to Filipino, to Mexican.............

We're lucky way up here, Cali_Dem - when you live in an environment that can kill you just by walking to the outhouse, you really do learn that everyone is a brother or sister. And you love 'em even more when they run the bear out of your back yard.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
15. How about we confiscate all the guns?
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:46 AM
Jul 2016

Hunters get to keep their guns in a safe place, check them out during hunting season. Anyone caught with an unregistered/unsanctioned gun has it taken away, and all future gun owning privileges are cancelled.

Others have brought up the problem of such things as feral pigs. The guns to shoot them need to be checked out of a sanctioned place for a specific period of time. In places where such things as feral pigs are a problem, the guns can be re-checked out. But the very vast majority of people who think they need guns are neither hunters, nor dealing with feral pigs.

Take the guns away.

Oh, and as an aside, if IKEA could recall a whole bunch of shelves because six kids died over several years, why do we allow guns to not be recalled when several people per day die? Just wondering.

And to all of you who defend the status quo, assure me that if your child or grandchild is murdered by a gun, you're perfectly fine with that.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
18. It would be bad for the Gun and Ammunition business to do that.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:08 AM
Jul 2016

We don't want to put a wildly successful American industry out of work, do we? That would not be Patriotic, would it?

What should we do for those people who just don't feel quite safe about their neighbors without the hands-on, confidence building ownership of at least several firearms?

This is not to mention those who feel the urgent need to hunt down members of other social, political and cultural groups out of fear that they will be overpowered at the laundromat or the mall, or possibly out-gunned at Burger King.

What about the market place of gun life-style accessories. All that camo and clip-on displayed at your local Walmart or Food Lion really does wonders for the bottom line at Cabela's and Bob's Gun World, or Carolina Gunrunners. Who's going to pay their salaries and stock holder dividends?

And just think of all those emergency service providers, hospital staff, insurance agents and attorneys who would have so much less to do and be paid for. Don't they deserve a little consideration too? How would TV news get people to watch if the couldn't lead off with at least 2 or 3 murders at the top of the hour? Not a good plan to put them off the job either.

I don't believe anyone in Congress would want to have the reputation of having closed down successful American enterprise with such a wide ranging impact on our daily lives and economy...After all someone has to fund for their election campaigns, advertising costs and staffing fees.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
21. Hmm. I've never really considered all those who would be
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:31 PM
Jul 2016

out of work if my suggestion to confiscate and lock up all guns were to be implemented. Clearly we would need some sort of work/jobs program put in place. How about all of them get to work cleaning up National Parks? I'm sure others would have even better suggestions.

And campaign contributions might be a bit of a problem, although surely there are office holders who don't take money from the NRA, so we could see how they finance their campaigns.

Gosh, so many things I hadn't thought about.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
38. Just Imagine all the spare time folks would have if only it wasn't taken up that way.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:53 PM
Jul 2016

All those little domestic activities we never quite seem to have time for: washing the cat, getting rid of all those Tupperware containers you only have 1/2 of that fill every nook in the kitchen, getting that last row of really old clothes out of the closet or attic (the ones you swore you'd get to last year and the year before that).

Suppose we had that time for more civic minded purposes like rebuilding the local park or playground? I often hear people say how much they'd love to clean up city hall, or the legislature, or the Pentagon (just for instance). Now they'd have plenty of free time to take care of that and just think how much nicer those institutions will look and how much better they'll run once they've been junked out and the old trash stored there is cleared away.

You know this is starting to sound like one of those good civic growth ideas that made up some of the programs which put people to work during the New Deal. You may have something there! I bet if we all got together next Monday we could persuade Congress to fund a campaign along these very lines. I mean they do keep on saying they want to restore America one way or another, and I know both parties are anxious to show their patriotic concern for we fellow Americans.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
41. Think we could start a new political party around this?
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 04:25 PM
Jul 2016

The Civic Party would be a good name. Start by getting people to run for city council seats, move up to mayor, country commission, state legislatures. In a few years we could be running for Congress, and by 2028 at the latest could credibly have a candidate for President.

Or maybe just organize roving gangs to help people clear out those old Tupperware containers.

Statistical

(19,264 posts)
22. So step 1 is repealing the second amendment.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:38 PM
Jul 2016

What is your plan to accomplish that?

These kind of bold proclamations which ignore the legal reality that exist are just feel good fantasies.

The second amendment exists so you can either craft legislation which doesn't violate it OR you could repeal the second but just pretending it doesn't exist will never accomplish anything.

So which route do you recommend?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
24. Oh, I know it won't happen.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:44 PM
Jul 2016

But I'm well beyond the "moments of silence" for the victims, I've seen way too many stories of the toddler who shoots his mother or older brother, the parent who shoots and kills his kid coming home late at night, the enraged spouse who murders the ex and the kids. For me, the actual lives matter a lot more than anyone's right to own a gun. Or to kill humans.

So far as I'm concerned all who piously say, "Oh we can't possibly take away the guns or even effectively limit their ownership" is morally complicit in all the murders that occur with those guns.

Right now this debate is being muddied by the two most recent murders of civilians by cops, as well as the cop killings in Dallas. But it's just so bizarre to me that other countries tend to severely limit gun ownership and -- get this, it's so strange it's almost unbelievable -- those countries don't have thousands of people killed every year by guns. I know, hard to wrap your head around it.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
31. Why stop with the 2A? Imagine how much more safe we would be if the BOR was scrapped in entirety.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:16 PM
Jul 2016
 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
36. I'm simply not okay with the level of gun violence in this country.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:41 PM
Jul 2016

A lot of people are apparently content to wring their hands, participate in a moment of silence, throw around mental illness as if that's an excuse, but are unwilling to do anything meaningful about reducing that gun violence. To all of those people I say, fine. Just don't complain when it's your daughter, grandmother, cousin, best friend, anyone at all close to you who dies from a gun. All of these deaths are assumed to be normal, just a part of daily life here in the United States because the second amendment matters more than any individual person's right to stay alive.

And it's the second amendment that leads to all of the gun deaths. The other nine amendments, the rest of the bill of rights, not so much. So don't say something that stupid.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
40. Public safety?
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 04:21 PM
Jul 2016

Like the members of the public who were safe a couple of weekends ago in Orlando? Or the kids at Sandy Hook?

Not to mention all the random murders and suicides. I'm not sure you and I have the same definition of public safety.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
25. So who's going to do that?
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:49 PM
Jul 2016

Perform the actual confiscations, that is. You do realize voluntary compliance with a "turn 'em all in" gun ban will be lucky to exceed 10%, right?

So who's going to carry out the confiscations?

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
29. It clarifies some of your thinking. Intention, not so much.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:04 PM
Jul 2016

Honestly, that doesn't clarify the intention behind advocating confiscation much at all, save the final goal of reducing gun-related bloodshed, a goal I'd hope everyone here shares. It's hard to see a serious attempt at confiscation of civilian firearms as anything other than something that would lead to significantly greater amounts of bloodshed.

Moreover, it's difficult to see just how such an attempt would be carried out. There are not remotely enough law enforcement personnel in the country to perform this...not even close (c. 800k LEOs with arrest powers nationwide...c. 85 million gun owners). The military is prohibited by law from performing such duties, and even if that law was changed, the military skews sharply right these days and overwhelmingly supports civilian gun ownership...it's likely such orders would produce widespread insubordination.

The gun genie is out of the bottle, and putting it back seems like a literal impossibility. I'd say the focus at this juncture should be to see how we can do a better job of keeping firearms out of the wrong hands (and reducing the number of "wrong hands" via economic justice, dropping the War on Drugs, not ignoring mental healthcare, etc.).

ut oh

(872 posts)
17. I just had a facebook "conversation"
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 04:02 AM
Jul 2016

with an individual that tried to claim that AK-47s and AR-15s were not designed for military use...



Then he tells me to get my facts straight (twice)... OK

Of course I posted a link from wikipedia for both weapons discussing the history of each (including their military design intent)... He claimed wikipedia is not a trustworthy source ("We all know..." logical fallacy (fallacy of authority? - gotta get my fallacy classifications tighter... hehe). Then he asked if I paid attention in school and to lay off the booze (or some such...)

So I went to several other sites and posted those links which match nearly word for word in some points... which I pointed out.

Then I posted a link from a AR-15 fan/hobbyist site with the same history.....

And I figure he'll try to claim those sites aren't valid either

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
19. Sorry, but we are not allowed to talk about the Culture of Death in this country.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:35 AM
Jul 2016

Me personally, I've come to the conclusion there are a lot more folks fixated with death and the power to kill then I could have ever imagined. Some folks are just a step away from being feral animals.



etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
27. No, I disagree
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 01:57 PM
Jul 2016

There are not a lot more ... they are just the loudest, most persistent and haevily armed

treestar

(82,383 posts)
33. That's the problem with it
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:28 PM
Jul 2016

I mean "he's got a gun!" and so they shot the black man because he had one? Cops should expect all of us to have guns, as it is our 2nd Amendment right so they say, so what's the panic of "he's got a gun!" It makes the cops all the more nervous when they know we all have them. Maybe cops in Australia or Canada are not so damned sure they are about to get shot as they can figure most people won't have them.

And a white man with a gun who they'd wrestled to the ground completely - would they be so scared? No, they'd take the gun and handcuff him. What are they patting people down for? If they find a gun they can take it.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
35. Perhaps, Cali, you should reassess your positions completely...
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:37 PM
Jul 2016

If you think gun sales will "soar" and laws "will become even less stringent," then perhaps what you are striving for -- and how you are striving for it -- may be wholely separated from reality; in fact you may be slogging on in a culture war where your efforts only infuriate the "other side" and cause it to dig in and ALWAYS double down. I suggest not only a different approach, but atepping back to see the big picture. You know, guns just may not be the problem. Again, guns just may not be the problem.

I respectfully suggest you clearly define the societal problems which concern you, and as an effective, reasonable progressive, to offer viable plans of action.

Democrats have paid a dear price in terms of relevance when it disavowed the approaches of FDR and LBJ.

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