Right now, police officers are hair-trigger risks.

[MineralMan]

It's something to consider, and will be for some time to come. Some extra measure of caution is probably in order when dealing with them. That is not to say, in any way, that people should not be protesting police brutality and shooting of innocent people. It is only to say that being aware of their current state of fear and apprehension should be taken into consideration whenever there is an interaction, either individually or when in groups.

[gwheezie]

1. I saw it on my way home from work last night

Big police presence, several pull overs with multiple police cars. I got pulled over but I'm a white female so wasn't pulled out of my car at gunpoint.

[MineralMan]

3. Yes. Incidents like Dallas put the "us vs. them" attitude

right up front. Sadly, incidents like the police shootings in Minnesota and Louisiana don't change those attitudes.

Right now, many LEOs are looking for reasons to act out. It's simple psychology. Being aware can be of some help in avoiding dangerous situations. Being right isn't of much use if you're dead.

[oberliner]

16. You would have been pulled out of your car at gunpoint if you were not a white female?

Is this really what you believe?

[uppityperson]

18. There is less chance of being so if you are a white female. Do you really not understand that?

[oberliner]

20. Obviously

But the vast majority of encounters between the police and a non-white, non-female do not result in the person being pulled out of the car at gunpoint.

[uppityperson]

21. no one is saying that. nt

[oberliner]

29. The post to which I responded was saying exactly that

Read it again, if you care to.

[rock]

23. What an enormous breach of logic

That is all.

[oberliner]

30. The logic is solid

Here's the comment to which I responded:

"I'm a white female so wasn't pulled out of my car at gunpoint."

Logical conclusion: "If I wasn't a white female, I would've been pulled out of my car at gunpoint"

[rock]

31. That's a non-sequitur

It is bad logic. White females are not pulled out of their cars at gunpoint does not tell me a thing about other colors or males. If the statement were re-written to have an "only" in it, you might have something. Sorry.

[oberliner]

32. Definitely not

"I got pulled over but I'm a white female so wasn't pulled out of my car at gunpoint."

You don't think that statement implies that the person believes if they were not a white female that they would've been pulled out of their car at gunpoint?

If not, what do you think was meant by the statement? Why bring up race and gender at all?

[rock]

36. "I'm a white male who is the chief of police"

"Guess how I was stopped." -- Please cease your faulty logic.

[uponit7771]

2. For a good portion of my life its always been hair trigger, some PDs aren't willing or able to

... to train their force on de-escalation.

[MineralMan]

4. That's certainly true, but after incidents like Dallas,

it gets much worse and spreads like wildfire. I'm very concerned right now for people who have to deal with LEOs. It's a particularly dangerous time. I have no solution to offer, though. Caution is all I can suggest.

[LisaL]

9. And I am concerned for people who are LEOs, after several recent attacks against

them.

[MineralMan]

11. Compare the number of LEOs killed to the number of non-LEOS killed.

Of course I'm concerned about anyone being killed. That's not the point of my post.

[LisaL]

14. Well, if we are going to count.

"The number of police officers shot and killed in the USA is 44% higher than at this time last year following the Dallas ambush Thursday night that left five officers dead, according to data from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/07/08/nationwide-police-shooting-deaths/86861082/

[MineralMan]

15. That is not the comparison I mentioned.

Sorry, but I'm not looking for an argument. I'm pointing out that people need to use extra caution right now.

You can do the other comparison on Google, if you wish.

[Ms. Toad]

33. For a total of 26 LEOs. The number killed BY LEOs, so far this year, is at least 569.

1146 total in 2015.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

The 44% change in LEO deaths represents 8 additional police officer deaths - fewer than 3 days worth of deaths at the hands of police officers this year.

[TexasProgresive]

5. As a teen driver 50 years ago in Houston I knew about the propensity for police violence

There never were and "unarmed" people shot by HPD because they carried "throw down" guns. This fell out of favor when one idiot used a gun he stole from the police property room--OOPPPS!

Anyway it had been my practice when pulled over to actually get out of the car, closing the locked door and have my license in my hand before the cop could exit his/her car. Then I heard they want you to stay in your vehicle. I have never understood how that makes a cop safer. It's hard to see what is going on in a car especially at night.

With the door locked they have to ask permission to enter the car. I know they're supposed to but that is not always the case in Texas.

But you are right, all police officers have to be on edge right now. So everyone should be completely above board in any interactions with them. That's no guarantee. And one other piece of advice, if you are licensed to carry a hand gun, just DON'T.

[LisaL]

6. Why wouldn't they be on edge?

A cop was just shot in MO multiple times during a traffic stop. Multiple cops were shot and killed in Dallas. And then there was a highway shooting in TN.

[TexasProgresive]

8. Did I say they weren't?

What I think is that many are on the edge permanently and this my push then over the edge.

[LisaL]

10. It certainly could.

[roamer65]

7. I agree 100 percent.

If you have a concealment license, it is best to give it a rest for awhile.

[Hoppy]

12. But...BUt....BUT....what about the 2nD Amendment.... I'm maybe the good guy with the

gun and you're gonna be glad when I get there just in time to save your ass from two bad guys with guns.

[MineralMan]

13. Nothing to do with what I wrote at all.

Nothing.

[Igel]

34. Rights imply the right to not exercise them.

A lot of people assume that if they have a legal right it's always proper to exercise them.

It may be legal, but it can also be improper. It's a useful distinction a lot of younger folk and some older folk overlook. Every right not only imposes an obligation on somebody else, it also confers a responsibility to use the right judiciously.

[jtuck004]

17. It's been like that for black folks since the beginning of the country. Dead for nothing but the

color of your skin, faster than a racist can think an insult.

So this must be a white privilege alert.

[heaven05]

19. true--THIS

fast as a speeding bullet(s).

[HipChick]

25. Exactly..many of the DU post show me White people don't have a clue

[COLGATE4]

22. The level of tension among LEO's is obviously very

hightened right now but even before all the latest shootings I always told my clients to do the following when they are stopped while in their cars:

1. Stay very calm and quiet. Put your hands on the steering wheel or in plain sight.
2. Don't make any sudden movements. Don't try and adjust your clothes or fiddle with anything.
3. When asked for your license and registration, tell the LEO in advance what you're going to do: "I'm going to get my wallet from my back pants pocket, OK?"
4. Be polite. Don't get confrontational. Try and cooperate to the best of your ability.
5. You don't have to give the LEO permission to "take a quick look" or any other way search your car. But you may possibly be temporarily detained while they call for a drug-sniffing dog.

To this is would now add a new #1 if you have a weapon on you or in your car:

1. Immediately tell the LEO that you have a weapon and where it is. Wait for the LEO's specific instructions before anything else and follow them to the letter.

[MindPilot]

27. So as long we all show our oppressors the proper level of deference and subservience...

everything will be fine, right?

I hate this fucking cop-worship. THEY have to be on heightened alert? Fuck them; we citizens have been on heightened alert for our entire lives.

[COLGATE4]

37. As I said, it's advice I gave my clients. Feel

free to take it or ignore it.

[MindPilot]

38. Of course. But it sounds a lot like...

"Don't wear that short skirt; you're just asking to get raped"

"if you do get raped, just relax and enjoy it; he's less likely to hurt you."

When you are all apologetic and polite to a cop, you just feed his sociopathic authoritarianism.

[COLGATE4]

39. What it is is my best advice based on a lot of years

as an attorney and whose first concern is for the well-being of my clients. But by all means, the next time you're pulled over by a LEO, feel free to do it your way.

[tblue37]

24. You mean people respond to cops the way one would respond to dangerous wild animals on the loose? nt

Last edited Sun Jul 10, 2016, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

[MindPilot]

28. Exactly. But there is a difference.

Wild animals generally don't kill because they enjoy it.

[Igel]

35. Yes.

With hostility, showing fear, and assuming the very worst and letting the animal know it.

Of course, if you approach any animal with a stick it's going to react badly. We approach police with verbal sticks and think it's going to calm things down. And we call being polite and hedging our ill-will "deference to the oppressors." And complain that now it's bringing that horrible police "us-versus-them" attitude to the fore.

Until a person can look at a video of police escalation and point to the causes of each successive increase in the level of hostility *and* the cause of that increase, the civic conversation goes nowhere because it's all bunch of accusations hurled at one person while other tells himself and the world why he's completely justified and really, there's only ever one side to a story.

[tblue37]

40. The person doesn't have to do anything wrong to get the hostile

response and rapid escalation from the police officer.

Listen to actor Wendell Pierce tell about how he almost got shot driving back from his uncle's funeral. He was dressed in a nice suit, had 2 toddlers in the backseat, and when he was pulled over he sat with his hands visible on the steering wheel, waiting for the cop to approach.

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[RKP5637]

26. Yeah, I don't blame them. I would be on edge too. I'm also on edge, I hate it when a cop

stops me for something. Some are incredibly pleasant, but there's always the probability of getting a bad one.