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Sun Jul 10, 2016, 06:15 AM

You get what you pay for. One factor in shitty policing.

Make the job harder to get. Higher level of education should be required psychological testing, etc and taise the pay about 100 percent. When you give the power over life and death to people and pay them nothing and requre a level of education found at the Jr College Academy. Well, you are gonna get some fucked up people in there.

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Reply You get what you pay for. One factor in shitty policing. (Original post)
arely staircase Jul 2016 OP
brush Jul 2016 #1
arely staircase Jul 2016 #2
Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #5
arely staircase Jul 2016 #14
MH1 Jul 2016 #21
aikoaiko Jul 2016 #3
arely staircase Jul 2016 #12
SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #17
arely staircase Jul 2016 #20
SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #22
arely staircase Jul 2016 #24
Hortensis Jul 2016 #4
arely staircase Jul 2016 #13
Hortensis Jul 2016 #15
arely staircase Jul 2016 #18
Hortensis Jul 2016 #23
rug Jul 2016 #6
arely staircase Jul 2016 #16
Trust Buster Jul 2016 #7
DustyJoe Jul 2016 #8
alcibiades_mystery Jul 2016 #11
Hortensis Jul 2016 #19
CBGLuthier Jul 2016 #9
arely staircase Jul 2016 #10

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 06:35 AM

1. Agreed. But even junior college level education is not required. Mostly high school diplomas.

Raise pay, require college degree and psych testing for sure.

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Response to brush (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 07:03 AM

2. Yeah. The Police Academy here is at the local JC.

I would assume they get at least an Associate's Degree in Criminal Justice, no?

That still isnt enough.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 08:09 AM

5. The NAACP sued over police departments that require a 4 year degree

 

They claimed it discriminates against blacks as white people are more likely to have a college degree

Since New Jersey was the one sued, their state police legally can not require a 4 year degeee, but hundreds of other police departments dropped the requirement as a result to avoid possible lawsuits

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:30 AM

14. I think that is unfortunate.

I am a member of the NAACP and active locally. I disagree strongly with them here.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:41 AM

21. This is an example of the viciousness of the entire system (not just the police)

As noted, there are good reasons for requiring a 4 year degree. But the NAACP is correct that the requirement would bias the hiring to whites, based on college graduation statistics.

This sort of thing happens all over in other problems - come up with what seems like a good solution by being more selective, and then you are excluding African Americans because they couldn't get past the earlier tollgates to meet those criteria - due to the inherent discrimination in those earlier tollgates. I feel this is one of the major barriers to success for blacks in this country, and it is a big frustration for me professionally.

To wit, I wish the NAACP would take a look at hiring practices in the IT professions, particularly ERP software, i.e. SAP (the software not the company) if they don't find it elsewhere, but I doubt they'll have to get that specific.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 07:19 AM

3. I don't think a lack senior-college level education is the problem.


Although it is true that a liberal arts education associated with general education can be transformative, the real issue is training and accountability.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:24 AM

12. I am not saying this is the only factor at work here.

Racism is a big driver. But requiring a a four year university degree requires applicants to hopefully have spent time interacting with a diverse population they may not be used to. Not to mention ideas. I doubt the FBI is as full of racists as the Baton Rouge PD
There are reasons for that.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:34 AM

17. And when they're sued

due to the disparate impact of their hiring practices on minority applicants, then what?

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:38 AM

20. Minority hiring should be done through heavy recruitment on

traditionally AA university campuses like Prairie Veiw A&M, where Sandra Bland was harrassed literally to death.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:42 AM

22. I agree but that's not the point

If a police department is going to be sued simply for having the requirement for a college degree in place, then they aren't going to put the requirement in place.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:51 AM

24. Yes. And I think that is unfortunate. I would think a police dep.

that maintained a diverse force should be able to require a 4 year degree as a requirement.

You have to have one to be a teacher? Why not a cop?

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 07:29 AM

4. Basically agree. Definitely better psychological

standards that would, quite frankly, rule out a lot of people who are wired to see the world in terms of "my people" and "outsiders" and test unacceptably high in hostility, in spite of training and education. That'd be a big rule-out and controversial because it would pull very heavily from one side of the political/personality spectrum. But those people are intrinsically unfit to be in positions of authority in diverse societies.

Another important fix, though, not controversial but just costly, is simply two-person patrol teams. For everyone's safety.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:25 AM

13. Agreed. And get them out of the cars and on foot or bike as much as possible. nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:30 AM

15. More expensive still but absolutely agree.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:36 AM

18. Yeah. Which is my point. People are going to have to spend money on this.

I think people are just focussing on my pay scale point. Training, all of it costs more to do right. Thanks for getting it.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:43 AM

23. Yes. Something that also costs more but is

unconscionable not to do is adequate policing of higher crime neighborhoods so they are not higher crime.

When I was an appraiser in LA, my work routinely took me to neighborhoods of all economic levels. Many people are trying to raise families and live the American dream in high-crime neighborhoods just as surely as all the others, and they have an absolute right to the same standard of public safety as the rest.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 08:12 AM

6. Stupidity is not at the root of these shootings.

 

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Response to rug (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:34 AM

16. Racism

is much higher among the uneducated. Not to mention lack of experience in a diverse population. Thinkn Sanders supporters vs Trump supporters. What do you think the difference in ed levels are? Racist attitudes? Both groups are whiter than America in general. But one is more highly educated and progressive. I had rather be policed by one over the other.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 08:38 AM

7. That won't be a problem in the future IMO. Given the increased physical threat to officers as a

 

result of the increased firepower on the streets as well as the increasing legal risks, fewer Americans will even consider going into law enforcement. Major police departments around the country will be experiencing major staffing deficiencies. As a result, this country will become much more dangerous in the decades to come IMO.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:08 AM

8. Proves the need for self defense

Illustrates the need for strong 2nd amendment rights to arm yourself for self protection as there will be no public servants able to 'protect and serve'. It will end up as aptly demonstrated by urban areas experiencing a police slowdown of patroling the so called 'no go' zones like Baltimore turned into, that it's rapidly becoming 'every man for yourself' zones. And people tsk-tsk events like riots and government screaming for massive gun control that spike gun and ammo sales .

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:21 AM

11. Ha!

 

Policing remains one of the cushiest jobs a working class person with high school or some community college can get. There will be lines out the door for these jobs as long as they stay on the same union contracts.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:37 AM

19. Kinda disagree. Oh, it may dissuade the kind of person

who works in downtown highrises but has never taken the elevator to the street and gone for a walk, but those people aren't usually attracted to police work anyway. Some spouses may dissuade their partners into other work that pays as well, though.

I suspect this might actually attract a few more to public service who want to do meaningful work that matters and also more of another type altogether to armed uniforms, often with an idea of "public service" also but with all the wrong ideas.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:16 AM

9. Elitist nonsense.

They are paid quite well. They do not require higher education they just need to be better decent people and a fucking bachelors degree will do nothing to change that.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 10, 2016, 09:19 AM

10. About 50 grand a year.is the average in Dallas. So, no. They are not .

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