Do progressives really believe the GOP saved the safety net?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/god-bless-our-loyal-opposition/

[emulatorloo]

1. No

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Seems like an odd argument

Look at the original votes on SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

I know Food stamps had some bipartisan support because it was a boon for agricultural states, but they don't seem to like the program any more.

[emulatorloo]

7. Praising the likes Cornyn and Chaffetz is very odd as well.

But as you remember, the head Admin there claimed Obama was going to announce cuts to Social Security in the '09 SOTU address.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Don't forget this

Don't forget this:

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/god-bless-our-loyal-opposition/#post-32753


or this:


http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/god-bless-our-loyal-opposition/#post-32797

[emulatorloo]

18. Note: The posters there who push back on nonsense like this are belittled and accused of being

trolls. I think it is only a matter of time before those are either banned or leave JPR of their own accord. Those posters are realizing that the site has degenerated into being more about Hillary Hate than promoting progressive policy.

[Human101948]

42. It is based on actual events...

Privatization was a popular idea...

While there were dozens of reform plans circulating around Washington, ranging from minor tinkering to radical overhaul, there was a growing consensus around "middle ground'' proposals that combined some structural changes in the retirement age with some form of private accounts. There were also hopeful signs that the public was ready for a serious discussion about Social Security reform. An August 1997 survey by Clinton pollster Mark Penn found that 73 percent of Democratic voters favored some form of privatization, and support was especially strong among younger workers. Independent polls also showed that many young people believed that without significant change the programs would not be able to provide for them in their old age.

Given the high risk involved, Clinton realized that he could not undertake this without bipartisan support, and, Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles reflected, "He knew to do this he needed to work with Gingrich.'' He was confident that he could hold moderate and conservative Democrats and bring enough Republicans to the table to make significant reform. The danger, however, was that Republicans would seize the surplus and use it for tax cuts. Some of Clinton's advisers suggested that he make a surprise announcement of a total overhaul of Social Security in the 1998 State of the Union speech. Mindful of the healthcare debacle, Clinton rejected this option, believing it was important to bring Gingrich and other Republican leaders into the discussions...

....It did not take long, however, for Gingrich to recognize the potential of a possible Social Security reform package. Bowles provided Gingrich with the same assurances that the president offered to Archer. The president would take the political heat for controversial proposals. Politically, the president and the speaker were closer than anyone realized. They recognized that their parties needed to change in response to new circumstances. They both believed that any effort to update Social Security would require government to incorporate some measure of choice, and that meant some form of privately managed account.http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/05/29/the-pact-between-bill-clinton-and-newt-gingrich

Emphasis added

[cosmicone]

2. That place really needs an elite SWAT team of psychiatrists n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I can not wrap my head around this. Can you?

Hillary’s mistake was in not remembering (or realizing) that Identity Politics cuts both ways: those who do not identify with you will not support you. So while she was browbeating the Bernistas, the GOP got together like a tidal wave, and Jim Comey opened the floodgates. This is the republicans (small r) our natural allies in this battle for the soul of a great nation, stepping up.

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/god-bless-our-loyal-opposition/

[whatthehey]

4. It's a symptom of CDS apparently

Along with an inability to understand GE dynamics and, well, basic English really.

[BlueCaliDem]

8. K&R! ^^^This!^^^ Spot ON. SHAME on them all! How can any reasonable Liberal or Progressive

believe or even attempt to argue that the GOP is saving the social safety net that they've been trying to destroy for decades??

[Eric J in MN]

6. In 2011, Obama sought a Grand Bargain

...with John Boehner. Obama would give him Chained CPI (a stingier method of calculating increases to Social Security benefits) in exchange for Boehner giving Obama the elimination of some tax deductions for the rich.

Boehlert agreed, but then changed his mind. So Social Security benefits were helped by Republicans being unwilling to compromise.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Seems the GOP was presenting PBO with Sophie's Choice.

And this is impossible to get past:

This is the republicans (small r) our natural allies in this battle for the soul of a great nation, stepping up.

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/god-bless-our-loyal-opposition/

[emulatorloo]

11. And nothing came of it. Many of us understand it was a bluff to demonstrate how unserious GOP is

Republicans are pro-chained CPI. In effect Obama showed them up as dishonest ideologues, catering to their extremist Tea Party base.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. Thank you ... And I argued that at the time; but, ...

segments here wanted to believe the evil (President) Obama narrative, that they were hearing now of it ... even though the gop for all intent and purposes, acknowledged it was a bluff that even they knew they couldn't call ... and survive politically.

[JoePhilly]

24. Exactly correct. Meanwhile, DU's combustible hair club lost its collective mind.

[BlueCaliDem]

37. I've been arguing this on DU at the time until I turned blue in the face, but it appears as if they

haven't been listening. Ugh.

[BlueCaliDem]

15. So you believe that Republicans, by default, saved Social Security? Oh dear lord.

[Eric J in MN]

21. Yes. Republican dedication to protecting the rich from more taxes helped for once. NT

NT

[Proud Liberal Dem]

9. Wow

That is a huge stretch- though I'm not unfamiliar with the assertion. Of course, what they seem to fail to realize is that, if true, things like cutting Social Security, Medicare, and other public welfare programs etc. wouldn't even be on the table without the GOP having control of Congress pushing those things in the first place. When has a Democratic Congress and President actually conspired to cut those things?

[BainsBane]

22. Where does this idea come from?

You say you're not unfamiliar with the assertion. Can you say more about what they are talking about? I've never heard it before, and it strikes me a bizarre.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

25. Here on DU some time ago

I had heard from a DUer at some point that Clinton and Gingrich had supposedly once made a deal to cut SS but the Lewinsky scandal blew it- supposedly.

[BainsBane]

28. I see

Well, not really, but I suppose in CT lala land it makes sense.
Thanks.

[Loki]

13. OFFS

They call the GOP the "Loyal Opposition". How f**ked up is that. Cut CHIPS programs, drug test welfare and disability recipients, try to privatize our Social Security, shut down the government, lie us into never-ending wars by letting their minions attack anyone who may oppose it with death threats, cut housing allowances to the military, cut funding to the VA, never admonish anyone in that party that verbalizes death threats against this president, spend billions on a witch hunt over Benghazi, but will gladly let any corporation pollute your air, water and health if it makes them a buck. They are sick.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. The "loyal opposition" wants to eliminate the ACA and turn the Medicaid program into bloc grants.

[brer cat]

19. +1

[awoke_in_2003]

46. Yep. nt

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

14. If "saved" means

Kneecapped, undercut, ripped apart, and destroy, then yeah... I believe it.

[mcar]

17. Anyone who believes that is not a progressive

No matter what they call themselves.

[BlueCaliDem]

38. BINGO. Thank you, mcar. You are SPOT. ON. eom

[cosmicone]

23. This what JPR is all about .....

[JoePhilly]

26. + 1

[BlueCaliDem]

39. + 2 (and those denizens want to take the country with them). eom

[FSogol]

27. We really should stopping caring what they believe over at Ratfucker Underground.

Ignore them and stop giving them hits is my advice.

[BainsBane]

29. Perfect name for it

[Pakid]

30. For anyone who believes that the GOP saved SS

I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would love to sell

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. No but deluded people believe crazy things

We need to stop taking crazies so seriously

[greatauntoftriplets]

32. No, but there's a good reason for that.

It's called reality.

[TwilightZone]

33. They're being trolled by some of the same people who've been trolling DU for 15 years.

Some of it is so blatantly obvious that I'm surprised anyone there believes it.

[Hoyt]

34. Clearly BS, but the same junk was offered by some still here.

[WinkyDink]

35. Why not ask if all Progressives have had frontal lobotomies? Because that's what it would take.

[Tal Vez]

36. Demeter sounds like a Trump fan.

We should never forget that the things that Trump is saying appeal to a lot of voters. There are folks out there who think that we have too many people of color in this country. They honestly believe that Trump will "disappear" millions of our Mexican residents. They know that a man with Mexican ancestry cannot be considered for a judicial appointment because they can't be fair. They honestly believe that the White House should be reserved for the white race. They honestly believe that President Obama was born in Africa to a mother who decided at his birth that he would be her vehicle to subverting the USA. They honestly believe that we should cut everyone's taxes, spend more on the military, protect senior benefits and still eliminate the debt. They believe that Trump can defeat ISIS without a plan. They believe that the Jews are corrupting our government. They believe that Trump has proven that he can do anything.

I just don't happen to agree with them about any of this baloney. But, I acknowledge that he has a pitch.

[zappaman]

40. Pinebaggerz aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.

[Rex]

43. I saw that too, took some real acrobatics to come to that conclusion.

[hobbit709]

44. some here have a reading comprehension problem.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. Are there denizens of our august board...

some here have a reading comprehension problem.

-hobbit709

Are there denizens of our august board whose reading comprehension doesn't meet your lofty standards?


Could you share their names with the rest of us?

Thank you in advance.

And while you are at it could you please share with us the names of the small (r) republicans

"This is the republicans (small r) our natural allies in this battle for the soul of a great nation, stepping up."

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/god-bless-our-loyal-opposition/

the gentleman or lady is referring to.