General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy all white people are racist, but can't handle being called racist: the theory of white fragility
Full Interview:
http://stateofopportunity.michiganradio.org/post/you-asked-it-extended-interview-theory-white-fragility
http://libjournal.uncg.edu/index.php/ijcp/article/view/249/116
DiAngelo says white fragility starts from the moment of birth. Because of our segregation, those of us born white end up seeing mostly white people around us. Once were old enough to experience culture, we still see mostly white people in childrens books, on TV shows. We live in segregated neighborhoods, where the white areas of town are inevitably seen as good and the areas where minorities live are bad. Schools are judged the same way.
"If we just gained our opinions from living our lives, following the trajectories laid out for us in schools and in our families, and in our kind of social interactions," DiAngelo says, "we will necessarily be ignorant about race and racism."But that doesnt stop us from forming opinions, many of them strongly held. And one of the biggest ones is about what racism means, and who is racist. "The number one most effective adaptation of racism over time," DiAngelo says, "is the good/bad binary, this idea that a racist is a bad person and a good person is not racist. And so its about individuals who are either good or bad or who either do or dont engage."One of the side effects is that many white people come to believe that if they just dont talk about or think about race, then they are not racist.
"Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It's the way that we are."
Then, if someone comes along and talks about racism the way DiAngelo does that racism is a system of oppression. That anyone can be prejudiced, but in America, only white people are racist. And, actually, all white people are racist because, as DiAngelo says:
"Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It's the way that we are."
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)puffy socks
(1,473 posts)This is how we come together and fight police brutality?
This is why I keep saying to stop making the focus just AAs, You can't build a movement without being inclusive . It does not help any of us to say "support us" even though we don't give two shits if your family is unfairly brutalized because we're the bigger victims"
No one is co-opting BLM movement. We get white privilege and all the double standards and purposeful oppressing of AAs etc.
It's pointing out that others are in the same boat and there a lot of them and they are of all races of all ages .
why cant other people stop with the white fragility and "born racist" baloney. This author can kiss my butt!
"We as a nation can decide to stand up for what is right, no matter your race, background or social status," forward Maya Moore told reporters. "It is time that we take a deep look at our ability to be compassionate and empathetic to those suffering from the problems that are deep within our society. Again, this is a human issue, and we need to speak out for change together."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/us/wnba-minnesota-lynx-black-lives-matter-shirts/
They get it. and they can support BLM and fight the systemic police brutality that affects all races. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Now what do you want to do about it? Fight about who the fuck has had it the worst forever?
Or can we get on with pressing law enforcement together to adopt the manifesto from BLM? (I dont like the term "manifesto", it has bad connotations being associated with mass shooters.
midnight
(26,624 posts)FBaggins
(26,693 posts)but can't handle being called an idiot.
What a ridiculous claim.
bdwker
(435 posts)see the video on WHITE FRAGILITY
bdwker
(435 posts)Putting Racism on the Table: Robin DiAngelo on White Privilege
elleng
(130,126 posts)"Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It's the way that we are."
zazen
(2,978 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)I understand the definition -- multiculturalism is literally a big chunk of my job description. However, you're never going to convince Average Janes & Joes that "racism is a system of oppression. That anyone can be prejudiced, but in America, only white people are racist."
It's true, but it's also too nuanced for most people who don't already have some sort of vested interest in the subject. Americans don't like nuance and they don't like changing what they already know. We do, however, seem to be more than willing to ADD to what we know. I have a lot of success when I teach people about the difference between system-wide racism and personal racism. It makes it more approachable for people who might be very reactionary.
It's the same reason I never say "microagression," but instead use "micromessaging."
It's simply more pragmatic. I don't give a flying rat's ass about the actual terminology in use, I care that people are less personally racist and that they understand and don't contribute to systemic racism. This guy is making an argument about terminology, never considering the practical effects.
However, you're never going to convince Average Janes & Joes that "racism is a system of oppression. That anyone can be prejudiced, but in America, only white people are racist."
It's true, but it's also too nuanced for most people who don't already have some sort of vested interest in the subject. "
No. It's not true.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Pretty much anybody can be labeled as the 'other', 'enemy' or 'oppressor' as the needs of the person vomiting it change.
bdwker
(435 posts)really
Quantess
(27,630 posts)So there's really no point in hoping white people will stop being racists.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)If anything it encourages racism.
mahatmakanejeeves
(56,874 posts)Quantess
(27,630 posts)A lofty career can come out of a theory like that.
The Wielding Truth
(11,411 posts)Igel
(35,191 posts)Don't you know that morality, character, intellectual and emotional abilities are related to skin color? At least if you're sufficiently pale.
Meanwhile, we are fed the same definition of "white" that the idjits had back when that was widely believed. You have to be pale. Very light brown is non-white, and that's the real distinction. It used to be because of white supremacism. Now it's because of white inferiorism. It's the difference between a (photographic) negative and positive.
It took generations to fight back that kind of babble the last time.
Response to HipChick (Original post)
rbrnmw This message was self-deleted by its author.
Iggo
(47,486 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)Guess we should just all retreat to our color-designated corners and hope we don't kill each other off.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Speak for yourself there. I am as white as they get and grew up in a 90% Mexican farm worker town. I had lots of Mexican friends, a few Mexican enemies, but none ever called me a racist.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)I will assume the sarcasm tag was in favor of my post, but sometimes I don't get it
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)This is a total tangent but I have a vivid memory burned into my mind when a couple bullies started to pick a fight with me as I was playing catch with a buddy. Everyone but me was Mexican and I guess the bullies thought my buddy would let them whoop my ass since he was Mexican as well. But no way. My buddy came charging over, picked one up, and body slammed him so hard he bounced off the pavement. The other one just ran away. I was all bloody and my buddy just said "I don't think they will mess with you anymore."
It's a stupid story from 20 years ago but from that day on I knew race wasn't the defining human characteristic. Being a decent human and friendship matter. We are all people, who gives a crap what color our skin is? We are all in this together and we should help each other whenever we can.
edit: tried to be more eloquent
dmr
(28,321 posts)In your case, friendship won. For you and your friend, race wasn't even a factor. That's the beautiful part of your story.
I didn't read much of the OP, but my belief system is to treat others as I would like to be treated.
I also believe in standing up for others being mistreated, or standing against and speaking up to the inflicters.
I won't stand for it.
It's about right and wrong.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)There's a lot of talk about how "racism is taught". I don't believe that. Just like in your story we break up into 'us' and 'them', we defend our territory against 'them' and 'us' doesn't necessarily form along racial lines, but rather those we are familiar with.
The military takes people from all backgrounds and makes a team out of them to take on other teams (also from varying backgrounds).
We aren't taught to be racist, we have a natural instinct to protect 'ours'. Too often we are broken up by race, and that is why we APPEAR to favor folks of our same race, but it's typically because of physical proximity and not necessarily based on similar appearance.
Good story by the way.
Marr
(20,317 posts)I think I had one white friend in school.
Never realized I had racism oozing out of my pores though. Thank god I have a few pampered, college-going suburbanites to explain my privilege and racism to me.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Welcome to his club.
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)Racist generalizations are just as ugly and divisive when used on white people.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)about white people..
Separation
(1,975 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)How can you teach classes on the theory of racial patriarchy and gender heteronormativity if you don't make the news every now and again?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It's something I would expect to come from the mouth of Limbaugh.
Islandurp
(188 posts)It doesn't make it any less offensive.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)I'm not a misogynist, look I married a woman.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Down he wasn't racist towards Hispanics since his wife was Mexican, but every other word from his mouth was spic this and spic that. I really believe that marrying a woman of Hispanic origin gave him a form of freedom.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)It's like the next step up of using your black friend as a Trump card to say racist shit.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)but it's kinda like the I have a Black friend response
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Putting those two ideas together, and you observe that the word "racist" has just become a synonym for "white", and can be discarded from the language altogether.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)What a bunch of bullshit.
Seeking Serenity
(2,838 posts)Old Codger
(4,205 posts)You can be a racist as you choose but that doesn't mean all of the rest of us are ...your handle is wrong you are not all that "hip"
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)She should only speak for herself.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)...and that had better be her natural hair!
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)You took the words right off my fingertips.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)It has to be something, because otherwise white people are quite special.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)N/t
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Lyric
(12,675 posts)My cousin was stationed there when he was in the service, and there are businesses where non-Japanese people are not allowed to go. And I don't just mean non-Asians, because Chinese people and Korean people are also banned. Segregation is legal in Japan.
Americans of all colors are practically singing kumbaya and holding hands compared to Japan. And they are not the only Asian nation to have that mindset and culture. Just the most offensive, since they are a first world democracy and ought to know better.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)Could people be mistaking what is really culturalism for racism in Japan?
yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)for us, this stuff comes to mind!
liberal N proud
(60,298 posts)It is not something that in inherited.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)And of course what sort of absolute filth some DUers believe.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) the particular post was alerted on,
Whether the poster has protected status,
Whether the jury was/is sympathetic (aka buddies) of said poster.
The jury system is still a joke.
Skittles
(152,963 posts)oh yes
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)Maybe I am naive, but I think openly discussing these sorts of ideas is for the better in the long run. It allows less than stellar ideas to be taken apart and perhaps refined. I would only be annoyed if criticism of the ideas expressed were being censored.
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)"Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It's the way that we are."
clarice
(5,504 posts)forgotmylogin
(7,496 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)I think there are actual racists. That go out of their way to show their hatred to another group. Even so this is mostly from bad upbringing.
But there is another form of "racial profiling" lets say, for a large chunk of the population, OF ALL RACES, if we are honest. But its more about not being familiar with the 'other'. This OP is right in that whites grow up in a white culture surrounded by other whites, for the most part. Of course there are exceptions. But the same can be said of blacks. Many grow up in mostly black communities, and make friends based on who they grow up with and who they are most relatable with in the same way that happens in white communities.
It takes an effort to reach out, with a clean slate, once we get away from those childhood communities, and make friends with those of another race sometimes. Especially with those from mostly all white, or all black communities. And I believe it is more the fear of the unknown than racism for most of us. And we find, (I know this from personal experience) that its easier than we first thought.
Anyways, I think its more like a sliding scale. And exists in every community. But I still believe that the vast majority are not racists, in the classical term. Its quite easy to smash the stereotypes that keep us segregated once one matures by simply making an effort in having a conversation or two with the "other".
Blanks
(4,835 posts)To overcome the tendency of people to only associate with their 'type'.
I expect that if we'd have stayed with it for a couple of generations the animosity between groups would have been reduced, but since there are people who benefit from that animosity, too many folks were manipulated into opposing bussing.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)So like the rest of the "all whites are racist and colorblindness is evil" brigade, it's in her interests to see as much racism as possible, everywhere.
Professional: I am Director of Equity for Sound Generations, Seattle/King County. I have been a consultant and trainer for over 20 years on issues of racial and social justice. I was appointed to co-design, develop and deliver the City of Seattles Race and Social Justice Initiative Anti-Racism training. I have worked with a wide-range of organizations including private, non-profit, and governmental.
http://robindiangelo.com/about-me/
Igel
(35,191 posts)then one of two things would happen.
The "Whiteness Studies" professors would be pilloried as absurdly ethnocentric and racist, or the "Black Studies" professors would all be declared to be Clarence "Uncle" Thomases and pilloried for betraying their race and their "real" culture.
Not that there's any necessary connection between culture and race. That's been a liberal and progressive lynchpin for a few generations now.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Jayzus.
The whole damn curriculum when I was an undergraduate could have been described as "White Studies." But studying works made by whites--almost all white men, by the way--is different from studying the condition of being born with pale skin and making sweeping moral and ethical assumptions based on a person's quantity of melanin.
Maybe a few NDN friends and I should get together and invent a field of "Redness Studies."
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I'm glad I decided to be a mathematics professor. we have centuries of facts to present, instead of nutty opinion. our classes have names like Differential Equations and Abstract Algebra insread of Intergroup Dialogue Facilitation.
bigotry is a hot commodity right now.
Dr. Strange
(25,898 posts)I better cancel my InterGaloisGroup Dialogue Facilitation course!
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)That entire thing seems to be racist. If we're going by the definition of racism:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
I guess white people are special in some way though, right? Inherently special too. That's something to hang a hat on at least. White pores do some magical things.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I suppose it could be argued they come into this world white.
I'm going to get a hide for this, aren't I?
romanic
(2,841 posts)That last comment in partcular is just bizzare. Racism is something that's taught, not biological. Author is clearly an academic nutjob.
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)then that is something beyond their control. It is simply part of their nature and trying to change it is futile.
A similar case would be homosexuality...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is it not?
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)Be correct if indeed racism is an inborn trait.
MowCowWhoHow III
(2,103 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)And here I thought it was just a hot day. Silly me.
bdwker
(435 posts)never admit they're racists.
Tells you all you need to know.
ProfessorGAC
(64,413 posts)I don't think your statement is as clear as you think it is.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Are you a racist?
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)FACT.
MurrayDelph
(5,278 posts)is then, by your definition, guilty?
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)pansypoo53219
(20,906 posts)block, then i went to an integrated grade school + most of my friends were black, NOT the white girls.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)I don't have that problem.
SMC22307
(8,088 posts)just in case.
kimbutgar
(20,871 posts)Children who are taught not to hate don't care about the color of the skin of the kid they like to play with.
I worked this past school year in a special day class. We got a new student this delightful little black girl. The only white boy in the class immediately hatched onto her and they became buddies. He didn't see her color but that she was this cute little girl with an outgoing personally who had learning disability issues.
Sadly, I suspect in a few years he will get it she is different race then him but I really liked seeing them playing together.
Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel
(3,273 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)Or at least it teaches racial superiority to some people and racial oppression to others. It isn't something people have to intentionally teach kids. Our society teaches it. We have to intentionally teach them good, not simply refrain from teaching bad.
radical noodle
(7,990 posts)It took the Civil Rights Movement to show me that black people were not always accepted. There were both black and white kids in my school. If anyone treated the black kids differently I was totally unaware of it. My parents never taught me to hate or think anyone was beneath me (although I didn't much care for a redhead who was mean to me). It was quite a shock when I realized that there was even something called racism, let alone how prevalent it was. Perhaps being unaware as a child is a form of racism, I don't know. But I do know that it had to hit me in the face in the news and current events in history class to even consider such a thing was possible.
I agree with you kimbutgar, I will never believe that racism is biological. It's learned from someone/somewhere.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Without parsing racism out of all meaningful definition this is silly. Sure if you redefine racism to mean participation in a majoritarian society which fails to engineer itself so minorities have absolutely proportional access, opportunity and success at every single level in every single way then yep all US whites are, for a few years more at least, racist. Only an imbecile would deny white skin, cet. par., conveys advantages in our society.
Hell it's even probably true that the vast majority of whites have inherent subconscious prejudices that fit the more typical definition of racism. I do. I'm on a conscious level perfectly comfortable with and equitably disposed towards folks of all races but I'll be honest when I see a bright metallic green early 90s Crown Vic on 24" chrome wheels with a 120 decibel bass-heavy rap theme tune at 1am I expect the driver to be a black male. It's prejudice both in etymological and social terms. I don't think any worse of that man than I do his white counterpart in a jacked up diesel beater truck with 5 spotlights and a peeing decal on the back window next to the NRA sticker. In fact, with another kind of prejudice, I instinctively think equally poorly of both of them without further evidence. I know either could be PhD cancer researchers who volunteer at the local hospice and donate 50% of their income to charity, but I presume they are not.
Do most people share prejudices like this? I think so. Yours might be against heavily made-up middle aged bleach blondes in designer clothes and Mercedes convertibles, or Arabic men in large groups at outdoor festivals, or hell bearded fat tattooed guys like me, but the chances are there's at least some hidden racial component. Jesse Jackson spoke for many white and Asian and Hispanic people too about that dark alley (although in all honesty not me; demeanor and age are far more likely to raise my concern than race in dark alleys). Is that prejudice or racism? If there is a great difference and a random white man is racist for having the exact same thoughts as Jackson, who is merely prejudiced, then we are torturing language beyond meaning and setting up an irrevocable racial divide about which nothing can ever be done to improve matters. If instead we say Jackson despite his success and influence is likely himself to cause more fear in that alley than a random white man because society burdens black men with racist stereotypes conveyed to all through media, memes, socialization and even education but that both JJ and RWM are merely similarly prejudiced as individuals, at least we have somewhere to begin dealing with the issue.
A majority white society in power and influence means whites need to drive the societal changes to stop burdening blacks with racist stereotypes of course, but it doesn't set up an impossible task of "abandon all prejudice despite your pattern-seeking brain, as long as you are white but it's ok for everyone else" which is the only solution to the silly strawman in this article. I don't have to think that blingy Crown Vic is equally likely to be driven by a septuagenarian Boston Brahmin to stop accepting racist jokes told in my company or avoiding the table next to the group of young black men at a restaurant. Racism will lessen when whites are less willing to treat blacks as "the other" even passively, not when we magically change our white pores oozing the stuff.
angrychair
(8,592 posts)For someone that claims such very specific skills I find her knowledge and discourse poorly conceived and unconvincing.
She states:
"Critical Discourse Analysis"?? Wrote this rambling and nonsensical garbage? The premise is unsubstantiated drivel with no supported analysis.
It is fringe hyperbole by a complete charlatan.
maxsolomon
(32,975 posts)she's making a distinction without a difference.
no one wants to be called a racist except white supremacists.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)agnostic102
(198 posts)like her is why we cant have discussions like this. This is why iv always admired obama so much. no matter how tough things get. hes still the adult in the room. Always speaks eloquently without saying all white people are racist that they have it coming out of there pours. is just so damn insulting and stupid.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)haele
(12,581 posts)The social media "normal" that everyone is exposed to is still overwhelmingly Eurocentric (for lack of a better term). Doesn't matter what race you are as a child, what neighborhood you live in, you still "see" the normal majority as being significantly white in the media.
The percentage of minority actors, models, talking heads, etc, that is presented would leave a foreigner to believe that the US population is between 75 - 80% white, when in actuality, it's only 30% at best. That "middle class", professional and upper class adults - and retirees who can afford to live in comfort - are 90% white.
That in itself could encourage a soft racism in someone who isn't raised to question what is presented to them. Like the average person who is too busy trying to make a living for themselves to do more than just accept face value of what they see, then go on from there. If one doesn't have the time and access to resources to be able question and research the truth, it's really easy to sell garbage that provides immediate personal gratification, no matter how weak or toxic those themes and memes are in real life.
Haele
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)haele
(12,581 posts)- people from Spanish-speaking/Spanish settled countries that don't identify either as Latino or as Asian (i.e. Filipinos) - and I don't understand why that is a separate category as this is purely from self-identification. It is an old Spanish-Colonial/Mexican practice from when class was strictly enforced - and was thrown out the window after the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo and the US took over wide swaths of Northern Mexico. "White" Mexicans became Hispanics, same as the Mestizos and Indios they looked down on.
The other issue is what is socially considered "white" in the Media or (to put it delicately) in many social settings - which is the Eurocentric "white" person.
This is the media conceit that we are exposed to, where a "normal" person has a fair complexion, more angular features, and relatively straight or "good" hair. The country-club/old-boy network member.
Everyone else that would be considered white through the Census is labeled by the media as "ethnic", whether they self-identify as white, mixed, or by the culture they were raised in.
And that is the subtle racism that we as a society in this country are still exposed to from birth.
Again, you don't have to agree with the premise in the OP - that "every white person is inherently racist" - to recognize there is subtle racism that is being perpetuated in US media to promote a vision of preferred normalcy that is specifically directed to those who consider themselves "white" or Eurocentric.
When I start seeing at least 40% of my generally targeted media including people who are either ethic whites or POCs as normal or in a position of social privilege (i.e., the hero or heroine) then I'll agree we are getting to post-racial and are all "equal".
Haele
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)Hispanics like Charlie Sheen, etc.
haele
(12,581 posts)Media Identification is not the same as Census data - which based still on self-identification.
Agents, writers, producers, etc will tell you there's a version of white in the media that is not the same as white in the Census. And it's the media where most people who don't live in more metropolitan settings get their idea of race and potentially develop racial biases.
Charlie Sheen is considered a White actor, not White-Hispanic actor to the average movie goer. No matter what he put down on the census survey.
Emilio Estevez is considered a Hispanic actor, not a White-Hispanic actor to the average movie goer. No matter what he put down on the census survey.
The perception of whiteness as normalcy in the media that is feeding propaganda to the country is a reality to be addressed, whether or not the actors that are playing a part are - per the Census - white, partially white or one of the recognized minorities.
Haele
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)Whites of good intention and good heart don't want to be racist--which is why it's so difficult to discuss racism honestly. Personally, I'd rather agree with this analysis and start rooting out racism in myself whenever it rears its head. It take uncomfortable self analysis, but it's worth it.
I was raised by a racist--I know what the overt signs and symptoms are, it's the deep down shit that needs exposure to sunlight.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Not questioning the benefits of whiteness and personal defensivesness combined with self congratulatory, "my best friends, wife, children etc are black" is the predictable response that validates this article.
"I was raised by a racist--I know what the overt signs and symptoms are, it's the deep down shit that needs exposure to sunlight."
That reflects the sentiment regarding overt racism in the south vs. the more subtle racism in the north. We have a lot of work to do in overturning stones and pulling back curtains to reveal the subtle racism that has far reaching effects.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Size of this thread and response seems to point towards that..
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)I generally have problems with broad generalizations, and this one is a wide one.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)For the white fragility exploding on this thread.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)bdwker
(435 posts)Ever see a racist admit they are racist?
never
Dr. Strange
(25,898 posts)Maybe she'll do it during the convention!
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)It's nice that you can recognize how bad that all white people suck.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)You can get together with Guiliani to figure out which race is superior, as you have much in common:
You can get back to us with your results.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Response to giftedgirl77 (Reply #80)
Post removed
Wayburn
(24 posts)I am not racist.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)...by saying everyone is racist. No, not every white person is racist.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)AntiBank
(1,339 posts)I truly fail to see what possible purpose it serves being on the board other than to get people on all sides enraged, all sides divided. This quackademic is also a self-interested and thus compromised actor who comes to the table with unclean hands and motives, as the raison d'etre for her "career" depends on the validity of her laughable suppositions.
de rec
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I grew up in a small town where the majority of the people were French speaking descendants of French immigrants. About 20% of the town was First Peoples, (Cri tribe). Similarly, about 20-25% of my relatives, including my grandmother, are Cri. Does that make me white, or mixed? And if mixed, (or métis, as we say), does that make me 75% racist and 25% non-racist?
This says more about the author than it does about the subject.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)I almost wrote about my upbringing, but it's not worth my time. What garbage!
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)Really don't buy into the whole concept.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)I was expecting information on white privilege but instead this. It just sounds silly.
Monk06
(7,675 posts)this topic
Or maybe race spainin just comes up in General in order to generate clicks.
ananda
(28,779 posts)ALL????
JanMichael
(24,846 posts)"Whites are taught to see their perspectives as objective and representative of reality
(McIntosh, 1988). The belief in objectivity, coupled with positioning white
people as outside of culture (and thus the norm for humanity), allows whites to
view themselves as universal humans who can represent all of human experience.
This is evidenced through an unracialized identity or location, which functions
as a kind of blindness; an inability to think about Whiteness as an identity or as a
state of being that would or could have an impact on ones life. In this position,
Whiteness is not recognized or named by white people, and a universal reference
point is assumed. White people are just people. Within this construction, whites
can represent humanity, while people of color, who are never just people but always
most particularly black people, Asian people, etc., can only represent their
own racialized experiences (Dyer, 1992)."
This (the blindness thing - no impact on me) is reflected in this thread over and over again.
"universalism functions to deny the significance of race and the advantages of being white. Further, universalism assumes that whites and people of color have the same realities, the same experiences in the same contexts (i.e. I feel comfortable in this majority white classroom, so you must too), the same responses from others, and assumes that the same doors are open to all. Acknowledging racism as a system of privilege conferred on whites challenges claims to universalism."
It a meritocracy now - same doors open to all - look at our President!...riiiight.
"a self-perpetuating sense of entitlement because many whites believe their financial and professional successes are the result of their own efforts while ignoring the fact of white privilege."
I know many of mine are.
I'm almost 50, white, and have a career not a job. I got mad once in college when I heard they were using quotas. Oh noes I said. I'm being frozen out to "other people" that my middling slack assed grades were equal to (probably worse) but they will get the spot in that BA program I like (but never took) because of race. Thank gawd I got over that bullshit.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)What's the point of all the consciousness-raising then? Seems like there are more productive uses of people's time than trying to fix me.
The longer I'm exposed to this rhetoric, I become less fragile and more indifferent.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)No, not like klan racist. Or even like Republican nominee racist. We know that those people are REALLY racist, and we aren't like them.
But are we maybe kinda racist?
I think our president said it pretty well earlier this week. I bolded the relevant part...
I understand why people are pushing back so hard against the provocative language in the OP. Surely nobody on a liberal message board has racism coming out of our pores. Right?
But I think a little self-reflection might not be a terrible thing. President Obama wondered aloud what we might see in our own heads and hearts if we are honest with ourselves. We might not want to admit it to everyone else, but can we be honest with ourselves?
Bucky
(53,793 posts)If as many people were racist as are accused of being racist, then there'd be very little hope for social reconciliation. It has a condemnatory judgmental term, toxic, and an indictment of character. It is not used as a neutral descriptor. It doesn't promote reform or reconciliation.
It's a phrase that builds walls of noncommunication and calcifies racial identity and social judgmentalism, when we need to build bridges between the rainbows of human diversity in our country. Calling people racist does not work to reduce real systemic racial discrimination in our society.
At the risk of sounding like Frank Luntz, I think we'd do well a progressive movement if we found more accurate and more effective nomenclature to highlight the problems of inequality, discrimination, lack of opportunity, and police violence in the country. If I condemn someone's character, I'm not going to win him over to my side. If I educate him and help him see the common cause we have in creating a true opportunity society, I have chance of finding a point of agreement.
There's enough accusations flying around in our public debates. They might give the accusing party a nice little endorphin charge to do the superior dance. But self stroking hormones don't really constitute social progress.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)This thread is a pretty good example of what happens when that word comes out. This is a community of liberals but even we aren't receptive to this message. So as a messaging strategy it doesn't seem like people want to hear it.
I tend to think President Obama's framing is more effective. Anthough I don't think many people want to hear it said that way either.
JanMichael
(24,846 posts)They only want it couched in a sweet non threatening way that they want to hear. Which sadly doesn't do much good or at least I do not think it does.
The reactions on this thread are telling and play right into the OP premise.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)very telling and troubling at the same time..
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)This saddens me more than I can express
HipChick
(25,485 posts)but some folks only heard what they wanted to there also..
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Perfect response as to why it so hard to discuss race...a little self-reflection might not be a terrible thing
Lyric
(12,675 posts)I have always noticed that the truth of your feelings about race cannot be found in your interactions with people you know...people who are familiar. Rather, it is wise to consider how you feel when approached by people you DON'T know.
I have blood family members who are biracial, both black and Latino. To me, they are just my family. But strangers? I am a disabled, low-income white woman. If a young black man dressed in the clothing of "urban culture" approaches me, I always feel nervous. I can't control it. I don't ever let it show, and I force myself to overcome it and be polite and friendly, but that initial fear reaction is still there. I can't explain it, other than that I have some deep seated fear that someone who looks like that hates me and might hurt me, and I powerless to defend myself.
I feel the same fear when I see men of ANY race dressed in "urban culture" clothing, blasting loud rap music with violent lyrics. Even white men. But it is always worst with men of color...black or Latino or even Asian. I feel my own weakness and vulnerability so much more, in those moments.
Black men dressed like white professionals don't bother me at all. For example, black lawyer or a black man in a polo shirt and khakis. I don't feel that fear. I think it's a strange combination of racism and fear of an alien culture.
As I said, I suppress these reactions and I KNOW that I am wrong to feel them. I never act on them. I force myself to NOT push the lock button on the car door just because a young black man walks by. But the urge is there.
I feel incredibly ashamed of it. I have never really talked about it before. But I think this is the kind of hidden racism that the article is talking about. The kind you don't ever want to admit to anyone, not even to yourself, because you feel so guilty and ashamed of it
I wish I knew how to overcome it.
I apologize to my PoC DU friends for not being better than this. It is incredibly difficult to admit these feelings and I feel very ashamed at the moment. It is not your job to fix me or make me feel better. But I am sorry, nonetheless.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)I hope it is received in the spirit you intended it.
Lyric
(12,675 posts)without honesty. Even when it's embarrassing and incriminating.
You can't heal a defect in your psychological composition if you don't even acknowledge that it's there. That's really the first step, right? Yes, it's a terrible thing to feel like I am racist, but that awful feeling is nothing at all compared to how people of color feel when they are victimized over and over again because of their race. We cannot even begin to tackle the enormity of "ending racism" until we can at least admit that it exists, even in people who are staunch liberals and political allies to the black community.
I can say these shameful things about myself, and still acknowledge that I am not the one anybody should pity. We are all victims, but not of equal danger. I am in danger of being shamed and thought badly of. People of color are in danger of being murdered for merely existing. All lives matter, yes? But not all lives are in danger. All houses matter too, but you concentrate on saving the ones that are on fire, not the ones that are safely across town from any danger.
So I don't feel particularly courageous. Walking the street as a young black man is courageous. Driving while black is courageous. I'm just a white lady on a message board, trying to be an honest friend to people who deserve better than me.
I appreciate the words of kindness though.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Talk to a white silicon valley HR manager interviewing candidates of asian descent.
I agree with others: it's been watered down to meaninglessness through overuse. We all have stereotypes (and sometimes biases), and I would argue that we progressives absolutely don't have any high ground in that regard.
Dogma: Negative stereotypes about african americans are racism. Negative stereotypes of men in general and white men in particular are progressive policy.
Sure, we can all improve. I work daily with people who challenge my unconscious stereotypes, and that process helps me to change them.
Racism? We as a community long ago decided that dictionaries are mansplaining nonsense, so I'll just say that although I try to confront my conscious or unconscious stereotype of african americans as often good athletes and asian americans as often good students, I wouldn't call this racist, because race is not determinative of anything at the individual level. This may come as a surprise to some here, but you can't even predict very much of my behavior, faults or attributes because I'm a straight white guy.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)married to POC, or who have black children/family members are racist.
What is written here is akin to writing that all children who suffer sexual abuse grow up to be abusers/mentally ill adults. And that is not true either.
What IS true is that racial bigotry, in our society, has been an unhealthy abusive social framework. Some have confronted it and don't participate (some come from other cultures and don't even understand it), and some are still struggling with it.
I don't think the sentiments expressed are helpful, and I don't think they are accurate.
There are a lot of white people who didn't grow up in mostly white areas and don't live in segregated neighborhoods and don't socialize with just whites. A LOT.
Skittles
(152,963 posts)and let me guess, anyone who disagrees is in denial
done here for good....over and OUT
that's the basis of white fragility.
Skittles
(152,963 posts)stating ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST is.....RACIST. Stereotyping IS WRONG.
Vinca
(50,168 posts)considered a racist since they grow up in similar circumstances surrounded by friends and family of their own race.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)According to the people who ran the anti-racism training I went to, white people in our society learn an internalized racial superiority, due to messages from society, including the media. People of color on the other hand learn an internalized racial oppression from the same sources.
The ultimate message society gives is one of white supremacy. That message affects white people by teaching us we're superior, but it affects people of color by teaching them they're inferior. The lesson is to fight against our society's white supremacy, not to pretend these issues don't exist.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)<POE>
matt819
(10,749 posts)I'm on the far side of middle age - hell, characters my age in books are referred to as seniors and made out to be crazy old farts.
I grew up - till the age of 7 - in a lower middle class neighborhood in NYC. In the early 1960s we moved because, I recall my parents observing, "the blacks" were moving in. This was before the age of gangs, crime wasn't all that big an issue at that time, as far as I know. It was all because of "the blacks." We moved to Brooklyn. No blacks in that neighborhood. Whew! That was a close call.
That's how I was brought up. If you asked my parents why they were racist, they would resent the question and wonder why you even asked it. They weren't racist. It's just, you know, "the blacks." Funny thing was that one of my friends before we moved was a black kid named Christopher. I don't have a ton of memories, but I do know that he was a friend. To a 7-year-old, that's all that matters. But we had to move because of . . . well, you know.
Now here's the funny thing. Fast forward about 10 years. Puerto Rican guy in my fraternity grew up in the same neighborhood. Turns out his family moved in after the first black in-migration. Not sure if the blacks were moving out, but, in any case, my Puerto Rican friend moved in. But they didn't stay long. The neighborhood was going down hill. The problem? The Dominicans were moving in.
And so it goes.
I haven't been back to NYC for decades, and so I don't know the racial make-up of my old neighborhood, though it often features in police shows as a dangerous, drug-ridden, crime-ridden community.
Back to the OP. I'm not going to paint any one group with a broad brush, but I have to say that I grew up, even in the lower middle class, with the ingrained notion that "the blacks" were to be avoided.
Abq_Sarah
(2,883 posts)All (insert racial/ethnic group) people are (insert stereotype/accusation).
Do we suddenly tolerate that shit here?
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Cayenne
(480 posts)This piece only empowers white supremacists.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)and segregation and isolation from other races produces racism, then wouldn't that same logic extend to all races isolated to themselves? And since whites are segregated from blacks, it follows blacks are segregated from whites. So wouldn't African Americans necessarily also be gaining their opinions from only the trajectories laid out for them and, given that they would be as equally isolated from whites, wouldn't that mean their opinions are equally suseptible to being based on ignorance?
w4rma
(31,700 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Maybe there are legions of people out there who walk the path to increased self-awareness because someone else goes out of their way to provoke them, but honestly? I haven't met too many.
The goose has to get itself out of the bottle.