Slain Dallas Cop Might’ve Been A White Supremacist: Still A Hero?

[HipChick]

Last week five Dallas cops were killed by Micah Xavier Johnson, a Black man who was allegedly motivated to take such drastic action after continually watching the US legal system refuse to hold killer cops to account. Naturally, bootlickers across the globe are unquestioningly celebrating the slain officers as heroes, innocents, and protectors. But what if one of those dead cops was a white supremacist—is he still a hero? And I don’t mean a white supremacist in the sense that all cops are enforcers of a classist white supremacist order, which they are. No, I mean the more common use of the term. The one we associate with Klansmen, neo-Nazis, Skinheads, and your average Brownshirt wannabe.

Meet Lorne Ahrens.

Ahrens was one of the five Dallas cops killed last week. While mainstream media presented him as a family man, gushed over his imposing size, his sense of humor, and otherwise went to great lengths to humanize and memorialize him as a hero, a band of international Internet sleuths came together to research something the press failed to notice: Ahrens’ affinity for imagery associated with white supremacists. Right in one of the main pictures journalists and editors were sharing with stories about Ahrens, is an Iron Cross tattooed on his finger. With this tipping them off, the Internet sleuths jumped into action and quickly turned up more evidence of Ahrens’ white supremacist leanings.


Evidence in hand, they put together a meme cataloguing it and blogged about what they’d found. A few friends and acquaintances of mine did the legwork and discovered that slain Dallas police officer Lorne Ahrens was a proud, open white supremacist.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-benn/slain-dallas-cop-mightve_b_10953276.html

[uponit7771]

1. shit... well,... better out their ass's right now, the 2006 FBI report wasn't written for nothing

[TeddyR]

2. Well, does that mean he deserved to be shot?

[ret5hd]

10. Well, do you mean this should go undiscussed?

[TeddyR]

18. Of course not

I'm just not sure the point of the article. Nobody has argued he was a bad cop or was acting abusively when shot.

[ret5hd]

22. So it's OK to discuss it but not write about it, or just not here on DU?

[TeddyR]

29. If the point is to tarnish the name

Of a policeman killed in the line of duty then I think it is a pretty crappy article. You can obviously discuss it wherever you want. And I haven't seen anyone claiming this guy was a "hero" by the way.

[Statistical]

39. How is it tarnishing his name?

If while he was alive he was a bigot then reporting it after he is dead suddenly is off topic?

[ret5hd]

42. I dunno...

Is it worth discussing that one of the victims of an unjustified act may have been indirectly partly responsible for the "mood" that brought the unjustified act about? A white supremacist cop getting randomly killed by a guy that was enraged by cops racist acts?

The trouble with conversations like this is it almost always ends up with me spending most my time explaining what I am and am not saying, like:
"So you're saying he deserved to be shot?"
"No, I'm saying it looks like it might be possible that this particular cop got killed because of the very atmosphere he helped create."

And I don't feel like doing all that today. What would make this a crappy article is if it turns out to be unsubstantiated. And nothing I have posted insinuated anyone called him a "hero".

[TeddyR]

76. To be clear, I didn't say you called him a hero

But part of the article title is "Still a Hero"?

[brush]

106. Let me interject here between you two. The cop being a white supremacist is . . .

Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2016, 12:39 AM - Edit history (1)

relevant, as per the 2006 FBI report that many police departments have been infiltrated by KKK and other racist groups.

That fact certainly has relevance as more and more killings of innocent black people, thanks to cell phone and security camera videos, become exposed to the general public, sooner of later there was going to be some blow back as people are not going to continue forever to be killed without reacting to the injustice.

Here's something of even more relevance to police forces being infiltrated by racists. Turns out that the Baton Rouge cop killer was also a racist thug. Here's a link that reports that:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/9/1546856/-Uncovered-Text-Messages-Exposed-Baton-Rouge-Police-Officer-As-White-Supremacist

[craigmatic]

163. Yeah seems like being a cop is a dream job for white supremacists they literally get to

kill the people they hate and get paid for it. It's sick but nothing is going to get done about it until they start attacking other groups.

[uponit7771]

174. omfg... this is OP worthy!!!

[uponit7771]

177. EDIT: The cop involved with the shooting of Alton wasn't the guy in the story who posted racist text

[brush]

186. He sure pumped those bullets into Sterling's chest quickly, even though . . .

the two cops had him pinned down.

Did it with coldy with no hesitancy too.

We all saw it on the video.

I'd call that an action by an unfeeling racist who needs to go to jail.

The FBI report on racist infiltration of police departments seems quit accurate, or maybe many were already there and the report just picked up an uptick.

[uponit7771]

189. +1, on the pumping lead into the guys chest... the other LEO had Altons hand... seemed like a bad

... shooting right of the bat.

Cops having white supremacist tats on them should have a sit down too... I... I don't see where any of that helps

[Vattel]

216. You are mistaken

The link doesn't report that the "Baton Rouge cop killer was also a racist thug." That report is about a different BRPD cop.

[brush]

223. I saw the video. I saw a cop, already on top of a black man, with assistance from . . .

Last edited Thu Jul 14, 2016, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

another cop, shoot the already down and under control victim point blank in the chest.

You can call him whatever you want but I call him a racist, murdering thug.

And it's on video for everyone to see so stop with the cop apologist argument.

It doesn't work in this case. We've seen the video.

[AngryAmish]

146. Turds.

[clarice]

56. Go get em' TeddyR..I'm right behind you. nt

[840high]

62. .that^

[Teamster Jeff]

74. When a black kid gets shot by the police...

....any mug shot, school suspension or parking ticket that he has is all over the news within hours.

[HipChick]

98. Yes, the double standard always shocks me..

[zz-la]

99. Not only that

but most of the stuff they dig up on the unarmed black kid that gets shot to death turns out to be completely fabricated BS.

[uponit7771]

110. ^^^THIS^^^^ Literally happens, MSNBC pulled up Castile's traffic tickets !!!!

[oberliner]

148. I thought that was to show that he had been hassled by the cops unfairly for years

And that as a black male, he got pulled over all the time for minor offenses.

[Igel]

158. Yes, but things like facts don't interfere with rage or beliefs. n/t

[uponit7771]

166. Or things like they said nothing about harrasment in this context, they did it to dig up dirt on his

... back ground and made no bones about it... it was not to outline anything else but to see if he was an angle.

They dug up the 12 yr old kids FATHERS back ground that was shot by the cops and they weren't making the point of him being harassed by cops.

Lets not be defense cause we can, you know the digging up dirt on the victim shit happens damn near every time

[uponit7771]

165. Not the first time right after he was shot, they said during the segment that they researched his

... record and found nothing but traffic tickets and made no point about harrasement.

I saw the segment and posted about it when it happened so the date and time are close.

My jaw dropped

[oberliner]

203. Gotcha

Fortunately, others have made the other point, which I think is a valid one (about him being pulled over so frequently for minor infractions due to his race).

[Hoyt]

188. Excellent observation.

[shawn703]

85. I doubt he would have considered being called a white supremacist tarnishing his name

Hell, he probably would have applauded it

[Throd]

92. Based on what?

[TipTok]

200. Preconceived notions...

[gopiscrap]

145. One of the problems in this nation

is we give a pass to the cops and military. This actually needs to be on the front page of every newspaper in the nation. Yeah, sorry he died, but this needs to be brought out!

[HipChick]

183. there is long term KKK membership

[TipTok]

201. Innuendo and tenuous circumstancial 'evidence'...

... merits the front page of every newspaper in the nation?

[gopiscrap]

210. it usually does when it suits the gop

we need to be as dirty as they are..perhaps we would get the senate and house back then also

[TipTok]

218. So you even admit it's flimsy but perpetuate a smear against a dead cop...

... because it suits your political goals?

Enjoy that race to the bottom...

[gopiscrap]

229. yup

as far as I am concerned we need to do everything we can short of illegality to defeat conservatives and gop and if that means being in the gutter with them so be it

[TipTok]

230. Classy...

[gopiscrap]

236. Not here to be classy

here to win. I would disown my own family if they voted gop

[TipTok]

237. That sounds...

... unhealthy to say the least.

I'll bet Thanksgiving is a hoot.

[gopiscrap]

238. we only have Thanksgiving with like minded friends

[TipTok]

239. Maybe you could clone yourself....

.... implant your exact memory and personality and then just sit around and agree with yourself about everything over a big serving of tofurkey.

Seriously though, that sounds incredibly tedious.

[oberliner]

31. Should we discuss Alton Sterling and his sordid past?

I don't see the point. These people are both dead. Killed for no reason, unjustly.

[gopiscrap]

147. Alton Sterling wasn't a paid public employee

with power over me, this could would be when I am in Dallas

[oberliner]

149. Lorne Ahrens is dead

He doesn't have any power over you.

If one wants to expose current living police officers who are white supremacists, I think that would be worthwhile.

[gopiscrap]

152. but we had the Pres, a former pres, a vp and god knows

who else gushing all over him....we need to stop this blind worship of the cops...I say expose him and talk about it

[oberliner]

204. There were five cops murdered by a deranged sniper in a domestic terror attack

It seems reasonable for that to be recognized the way that it was.

[puffy socks]

25. No. But he shouldn't be hailed as a hero either.

In my opinion none of these officers should. They were targets not heroes.
Are all the victims of mass shootings heroes or is that just reserved for police?

[whathehell]

83. Unless there's a documented history of corruption or wrongdoing, police killed in

the line of duty are routinely called heroes -- nothing new here.

[puffy socks]

170. That's true and we shouldn't

do that, not only has it gone to the heads of police in general, which just adds to their typical superiority complexes, but it takes away from those who truly are heroes.

[whathehell]

196. Not sure I agree..

Shots were being fired while these cops were protecting protesters, and they ran toward the danger while others were running away -- Same thing on 9/11.

[puffy socks]

214. Not true.

They ran and hid behind cars etc , just like everyone else. Then they gained their composure and ordered everyone back.
Then there's the fact that that is their job.
Every cop that happened to be there is not a hero, like every trooper that went to Iraq and Afghanistan is not a hero. Save the hero status for the heroes.
Real heroes like :

Rick Rescorla
Arland D Williams
Lenny Skutnik


On 9/11 the cops also ran from the buildings
It was the fire fighters running up to save people. 343 of them died. 50 police
23 nypd 37 pot authority

How many of those police did something more heroic other than die while in uniform? Those ate the cops that deserve the respect due a hero. Otherwise all those people who also died should also be heroes


In fact it was the police who sent people back to their offices without taking any time to actually assess the situation.

[whathehell]

220. I'll believe it when I see links for both..

Until then, I have nothing to say, except that I'm really not interested in arguing about it.

[annavictorious]

227. My husband is an FDNY 9/11 survivor.

I respectfully suggest that you reassess some of the things you wrote concerning the events of that day. You don't know what you're talking about.

[gopiscrap]

154. totally agree with you

[LanternWaste]

38. Where specifically was that premise implied?

Where specifically was that premise implied?

[jtuck004]

70. It may mean that he deserved to be stopped. Had the police departments been run as

a professional organization, not appearing to murder people because of the color of their skin, he might have been stopped by well meaning cops.

Instead it comes to this.

I wonder how many victims of his are dead or in jail?

[CrispyQ]

81. No, it means we need to weed the supremacists out of PDs across the country.

The FBI put out a report back in '06 warning how many PDs have been infiltrated by the KKK & other supremacist groups, but it was largely ignored. Certainly our infotainment media didn't report on it, other than a passing trailer line at the bottom of the screen.

[AgadorSparticus]

88. +1,000,000

This really needs to be discussed.

[cstanleytech]

95. "No, it means we need to weed the supremacists out of PDs across the country." I disagree.

Its not supremacists that are needed to be weeded out its all the assholes of which supremacists are a subgroup but the first thing they need to do really do is redo the selection criteria so as to reduce the number of new assholes joining and improve the training for all recruits so as to hopefully filter out any assholes that slip through.

[zz-la]

100. Yep KKK groups have been infiltrating PD's since at least the Nixon administration

and probably even before that.

[Rex]

94. So no answer to if he is still a hero? Just dodge the question and move on?

[gopiscrap]

151. No he's not a hero

but he is a victim of a deranged individual, but that doesn't make him a hero

[Hoyt]

102. Why is it gunners support white wingers, george zimmerman, darren wilson, etc. Don't believe he

deserved to be shot, but I think it should be known what kind of people are on the police force. It might explain some of the hassling and murdering of people for driving while black, etc.

[AntiBank]

3. he was the huge one?

I saw some shit calling him a gentle giant.

[bonemachine]

4. I've been waiting all week for this thread!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027991296

[tallahasseedem]

5. Uh oh...

That's some interesting information there. Kind of plays right into what the President had to say.

[Cali_Democrat]

6. K&R

[NaturalHigh]

7. When I want to know something I turn to "internet sleuths."

The one thing we know for sure is that he was murdered by a criminal. You keep stirring, though.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. When unarmed African Americans are killed by racist cops....

Right wingers dig into the past of the dead African Americans and try to justify their murders.

This seems no different.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander?

[jaysunb]

14. +1 n/t

[mythology]

16. Unless it is materially relevant to his death

It shouldn't be an issue. The same should be true in the case of a minority who gets shot or otherwise physically harmed by the police.

[LanternWaste]

40. But it *is* always an issue with minorities. Every time.

"The same should be true in the case of a minority who gets shot or otherwise physically harmed by the police..."

But it *is* always an issue with minorities. Every time. So let's illustrate consistency one way or the other, rather than rationalize how unforgiving it is when done to Caucasians.

[IL Lib]

86. +1 n/t

[uponit7771]

119. +1

[TipTok]

157. Little Bobby down the street did it...

So you can do it too?

I wouldn't let my toddler get by with that reasoning either.

[Igel]

164. It's an issue when it's relevant.

If there's one-on-one interaction between anybody and police and the "anybody" is killed, what do you want to do?

What's the likelihood that (a) the police knew about anything bad in the anybody's past and (b) what's the likelihood that that "anything bad" continued into the interaction with the police.

I don't see an interaction here that's not mediated by a lot of distance and a bullet. Nothing the dead cops said mattered to the guy hundreds of feet away who'd already planned to commit race-based murder of cops. Nothing that these dead cops had done was probably known to the bigoted hater. Nothing that they did to him could have mattered, because the only interaction was one-sided and consisted of bullets.

Castile. Did he have a problem getting pulled over? Yes, and the records show that. It's evidence that he was profiled. Some have twisted this to making it an attack on him, but the attack was hidden in the defense: He had an awful lot of actual violations, sometimes stacked because he was cited and didn't take measures he should have. Does that justify his death? Only to the extent that it shows how he'd continue interacting when faced with an actual cop, and, to be honest, I don't know what his record shows in that regard. Because, again, while the evidence for the attack is there, it's weak. And it wasn't the reason, except in the minds of those who have one answer for every question and every fact, and probably always will.

Sterling. He'd had a record of violence or at least belligerence. Does that mean he didn't act fully compliant with police requests and have a respectful attitude? No. However, it shows that he wasn't a milquetoast uberpacifist who was nice and helpful to everybody around. If he'd been shot from 200 yards by somebody who didn't ever interact with him, none of this would have mattered in the least. As it is, it is relevant to trying to understand what *might* have happened. Essentially, "Is his behavior consistent with what's reported?"

Notice: Similar reports, but different motives for presenting the information.

In Ahrens' case, there is no behavior to report. He was there. He was killed.

Still curious, though. I have to believe that the iron cross on the right ring finger, the Christian crusader's shield, and the Thor's hammer denoting neo-paganism, all fit together. He's a resolute Odin-worshiping RW Christian. And he is all those things at once because some Asatru folk are white supremacists and some Crusader's shield folk are white supremacists. And the connecting link is, apparently, that he worked somewhere in Los Angeles when one precinct was riddled with racists. I wonder if he was anywhere near that precinct. Nah, doesn't matter. If they were racists, we know he was a racist so it's simply unvarnished truth that he must have worked there.

[MillennialDem]

215. Shit, some people are making a big deal about Philando Castile being cited over 50

times for traffic violations and justifying his shooting because he was an unsafe driver

[toddwv]

231. It's extremely relevant to the entire discussion.

One of the first things that the anti-black lobby whips out in any discussion of race is the disparity in rates between black and whites.

The FBI did a report in 2006 about how white supremacists are infiltrating police forces in apparently increasing numbers. Here we have a situation where 5 cops are murdered, and 1 of them turns out to be a avowed racist. That's a pretty disturbing percentage, especially for California. So what's the actual ratio? How did this slim serve for so long? What's it like in the Deep South?

We have a known deliberate bias in not just how crime stats are gathered but also how suspects are treated and extensive indication that white supremacists have infiltrated law enforcement.

So sorry, I can't see this man as a hero. Should he have been murdered in cold blood? No. However, there is a standard practice of demonizing the victim of a police shooting. Don't we have the right to know if our police officers are secretly or privately just racist scum?

The racism problem among cops is a huge issue that needs to be addressed. How many lives have been lost just because of the prejudicial bias of groups like the "Lynwood Vikings" or the "Grim Reapers?"

It makes all statistics concerning policing suspect.

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Some progressives, too!

[oberliner]

23. How about they are both bad things to do?

Why engage in the behavior of right wingers?

[ret5hd]

47. I dunno...why do you do that?

You seem intent on bringing it up as often as possible.

[oberliner]

132. I don't understand the question

Personally, I think we ought to hold ourselves to a higher standard than right wingers, and I try to do so for myself at least.

[Person 2713]

68. Yes they do go after the victims past that is no lie and not just rw, usually MSM that shows it too

[HipChick]

69. Agree...

SOP when black men are executed

[Chemisse]

73. It is absolutely wrong to do this to victims of police killings,

in order to justify their killing.

What I don't understand is why - knowing this is wrong - people on DU would use it to justify cop killing.

[Pacifist Patriot]

234. I must be missing something.

There's quite a leap from illustrating how black victims are treated differently from police victims to justifying the murder. In fact, the point was clearly made that being a white supremacist didn't make him deserving of his fate. Please don't confuse the two.

[zz-la]

101. Hell the right wingers were trying to show that little Tamar Rice was in a gang

FFS this "implication" is far from that. The only thing this story implicates is that this man may have supported far right wing hate groups and if so that should most definitely be part of the narrative. If you are going to attempt to tarnish the victim of police brutality, and we all know that shit is fabricated at best, than like this poster said you better expect the same shit in return.

[Cali_Democrat]

103. Are u sure u replied to the right person?

[zz-la]

104. Sorry Cali I was trying to back up your point

Sometimes I click on the wrong post in the sub-thread. But i agree with everything you said in your original post.

[Cali_Democrat]

107. No problem

[whathehell]

197. Yeah, but we're not Right Wingers here..

So your comment "you better expect the same" is off the mark...Wrong audience.

[zz-la]

242. I would agree with that

But in the limited time I have been here on DU I have seen many posters bring up the pasts of Castile and Sterling and in the case of Sterling many of those posts have been disgusting. While I am not saying I agree or that I would bring up the history of an officer killed in the line of duty, I certainly can see why other people would feel the need to do so. I think 99% of the posters here on DU are good, liberal/progressive minded people, but some seem to have other agendas.

[lostnfound]

202. On principle I agree but better analogy maybe is predator and a prey?

Picking over a dead guy's history is worse than picking the pockets of a dead man.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

207. And I believe everything the MSM says.

[KingCharlemagne]

9. Blue Lives Matter . . . unless they're White Supremacists - nt

[gopiscrap]

153. No Blue Lives don't matter

in the sense that yes all lives matter, but when you say Blue lives matter you leave out the equation that you have the choice to be a cop, you don't have the choice as to the color of your skin

[whathehell]

198. Sorry, but that doesn't work either..

In this country, ideology, however loathsome, doesn't justify execution or even arrest. Actions count, not thoughts or, in most cases, even words.

[Nye Bevan]

11. So you're saying that he was no angel? (nt)

[mwrguy]

12. All those cops need to be publicly scrutinized

[oberliner]

21. The murdered ones?

Why?

[mwrguy]

45. This one turned out to be a white supremacist

Odds are there are others.

Any time a cop shoots a black man we hear about every last parking ticket he ever had.

[WillowTree]

54. Did he? I thought it said he may have been.

[lapucelle]

80. One blogger is making the allegation

based on this website's sleuthing and a meme they created, by their own admission.

http://empireofloathing.com/index.php/2016/07/10/working-as-intended/

I wouldn't conclude that this cop was a white supremacist based on these facts.

[Calista241]

125. one of their points of justification was that he attended a baptist church. n/t

[oberliner]

133. No he didn't

You are going based on someone looking through his Facebook likes?

[craigmatic]

161. Agreed

[Warpy]

13. Being killed doesn't automatically make you a hero

but we're starved for heroes in this land of Trump, so these guys were all portrayed as paragons of all that is good.

A closer look generally reveals our marble statues all have feet of clay in one way or another.

In this case, I'd like to know whether or not he acted on his proclivity on the job. I've known a few stone bigots who never took it to their jobs, it was the way to do those jobs and not get fired.

Individuals can believe any stupid ass thing they want to, it's their right as flawed human beings in a still mostly free country. Their measure has to be taken by how they treat others in spite of it.

[Leontius]

71. It doesn't automatically make you a martyr either

some people can't figure this shit out either way.

[LongtimeAZDem]

15. It could be relevant (NOT justified), if Johnson knew this, and targeted Ahrens on that basis

If Johnson did not know, then it is irrelevant, and Ahrens was just another white cop to be killed.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Johnson specifically targeted Ahrens?

[sarisataka]

19. Slain Dallas Cop Might’ve Been A White Supremacist:

Did he deserve to die?

Or at least was he more deserving of death then a black man selling CDs?

[oberliner]

20. Alton Sterling was a registered sex offender

Still a hero?

[Cali_Democrat]

24. Except nobody has really called Alton Sterling a hero. Especially not the media

Yet the Dallas cops were called heroes, especially during the memorial service.

The media praised them as heroes.

[oberliner]

26. Another (young black hero) bites the dust (Alton Sterling)

http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?182309-Another-(young-black-hero)-bites-the-dust-(Alton-Sterling)

[Cali_Democrat]

27. postcount.net?

[oberliner]

28. That was the site that broke the story

First place where the video was posted online.

[Cali_Democrat]

32. I can't even access the site because my work firewall has it blocked.

Doesn't seem reputable.

However, the media establishment and especially Republicans have constantly referred to the Dallas cops as heroes.

[Bok_Tukalo]

33. The President as well

It is a mainstream feeling about police officers killed in the line of duty.

[B2G]

35. Some random blogger on the internet, with no evidence whatsoever,

IS credible.

Lol. OK.

[oberliner]

113. Some random person with a cell phone video

Is how we know about many of these shootings.

[B2G]

117. Yes. And that is evidence.

Conjecture, like in the article referenced in the OP, is not.

[oberliner]

131. Agreed

We are on the same page on that score.

[Warpy]

37. He could have been the world's biggest criminal

but he didn't deserve to be executed for selling CDs outside a store after somebody lied about him to 911 because he wouldn't give them money and showed his gun when they got aggressive.

[oberliner]

126. And neither should these cops in Dallas have been executed

For protecting a peaceful protest. Even if they have an eagle on their Facebook page or whatever.

That was the point I was making.

[Warpy]

182. But not the post I replied to.

[whathehell]

79. Unless there's documented corruption, police killed in the line of duty

are routinely called heroes. Nothing unusual there.

[Igel]

167. They died in the line of duty.

And that duty was protecting people. For some, that makes them heroes.

White-supremacist Ahrens died at the hands of a black bigoted murder while providing security to BLM.

On the other hand, he was a victim. This line of attack not only serves to demote him from honorary hero status but strip him of victimhood: He deserved to die for possible beliefs. Then there are others trying to say that Johnson shouldn't have died, even though he said he was a racist murderer who committed a hate crime.

Why? Because the hero's and the murderer's skin colors don't match up with what the narrative must be. Therefore, the roles must be reverse. Hate-filled murderer, justified by our faith in him; police officer, made into a symbol of guilt by the same sort of faith.

Gotta love in-group and out-group dynamics.

[jaysunb]

90. I looked into this and here is what I found.

Court records show the victim was a 14-year-old girl at the time of the offenses. According to the charging document on file in the courthouse, the victim’s mother had discovered that she was pregnant after taking her to the doctor. The document says that Sterling, then 20, had been dating the victim for about seven months and having sexual intercourse with her in her bedroom. The charging document says he admitted to the mother having sex with her daughter and exhibited an “I don’t care” attitude.

The young lady in the first news conference w/ the crying teenager ( his son ) was the "victim" in the case. They continued their relationship after he was released.

Alton Sterling was not a model citizen and had had many run ins w/ the local authorities, but none of that matters when a person is murdered...just like the white supremist cop, murder is still murder.

[oberliner]

130. I completely agree with your point

Alton Sterling was not a model citizen and had had many run ins w/ the local authorities, but none of that matters when a person is murdered...just like the white supremist cop, murder is still murder.

That was what I was trying to get across.

[jaysunb]

156. I gotcha. :) n/t

[zz-la]

105. Which has nothing to do with the fact that he was living his life

after he had served his time for whatever crime was in the past. This has nothing to do with him being gunned down, executed by the police. A police officer perhaps being tied to white supremacist groups is part of the narrative since police in this country have a history of racial violence against minorities.

[oberliner]

127. Both were murdered for no reason

I don't think either pieces of information are relevant. I think we should focus on the fact that they were killed and should not have been.

[zz-la]

134. And I am fine with that

I believe that all the hatred and violence in this country needs to end. The hatred that is in so many peoples hearts is just destroying them. People seem to be trying to pick apart many of the young black men that have been gunned down by the police, and I think you get a natural reactionary defense of those posts. Obviously this officer and the other officers killed did not deserve to die. I mean no one deserves to die obviously. But I believe that many people are simply tired of seeing the media and people on the Internet going after the victims when it seems very cruel, especially when it seems to have an ulterior motive behind it. BTW, that is not directed at you.

I mean the President just attended a memorial service for these fallen officers and you still have people blaming President Obama for not doing more to honor these men that were killed. I mean WTF.

But yes you are right that both men were killed for no reason and we should hope that stops.

[tenderfoot]

118. So he deserved to be shot to death?

point taken.

[oberliner]

128. Of course not

Neither should the Dallas cop have been shot to death, even if the stuff in the OP here is true.

That was my point.

[uponit7771]

120. Strawman, no one called him a hero ... just human and didn't deserve to be shot like that regardless

... of his background but in the case of blacks being shot by cops the black persons back ground comes up first.

[oberliner]

129. Fair point

Take away the hero question.

Do you think the unsavory facts about these two people who were killed are relevant?

I would say neither are.

[uponit7771]

136. Unnn, I read the article... if Sterling had a past that showed he'd kill white cops and then got...

... shot by one I don't know if I'd take the opposite position.

Its like the Dallas shooter, his past is relevant to that situation seeing he wanted to kill white cops...

I'm disturbed by the shit in the article, WTF ... I want to believe none of its true but that's his FB page with a UIC like... WTF!!

[Gormy Cuss]

219. It's relevant if a cop is a white supremacist.

That thinking should be an automatic exclusion from eligibility to be a LEO. Sure, if Ahrens was one it doesn't make his death less tragic. It does however open the discussion of whether white supremacists and other racists in law enforcement ARE a problem that needs to be addressed.

[oberliner]

221. Why not focus on those cops who are still alive and might be white supremacists?

Rather than one who was just gunned down and killed.

[Gormy Cuss]

222. Why ignore it in one who was gunned down?

Assuming of course that he actually was one, which hasn't been proven.
If however he was, his death is a springboard to discussion of an ignored issue in race relations.

[oberliner]

224. Common decency?

Rather than going through this person's Facebook likes and drawing (possibly erroneous) conclusions based on them, why not examine current police officers who were not recently gunned down? Ones who can actually answer for themselves.

[Uponthegears]

138. I hate to keep beating this drum

BUT not only are we treated EVEN ON DU to an incessant recitation of the "criminal" backgrounds of black folks murdered by police (and/or video of black victims not "respecting the police'" like white folks think they should a la Sandra Bland), but these "criminal records" are more evidence of a racist society than they are the criminality of the victim.

Politicians have criminalized "lack of respect for the man" in a thousand ways, from making it a crime to not come when some cop calls you over "just for a talk" to disrespecting your teacher (as led to a classroom beatdown in North Carolina recently). Because the Supreme Court has said that it doesn't matter why a cop is stops/arrests you (for example, because you "look" like a criminal) so long as they "can" pull you over for some crime, because these laws are so vague that a cop ALWAYS "can" pull you over, and because this racist society views PoC as threats, we have a under-25 population where a huge swath have some "criminal record" that the media can point to and say, "We're not racist. We're just telling the cops weren't racist for stopping little Trayvon, Michael, Sandra, Samuel or Alton"

Yea, we ALL deserve to be brought over to prove we respect the cops.

We get murdered, it's our fault.

[uponit7771]

141. +1, I don't think people read the article... this shit is disturbing... he has a like of tRump ...

... (who constantly retweets white supremacist 75 times) and a like of the UIC on his FB page that would've been sit down worthy from jump.

The tats are on his body and his fingers where the 88ers look first for signs ... this is walking like a duck, talking like a duck, quacking and laying eggs... he might not fly south for the winter but shit that scares the shit out of me being a black man in Dallas that some of this is too close.

I know about the 88ers from being in Cali and they don't give a fuck, the 88ers here are open and proud... I would not want ANYONE who were associated with those bastards anywhere near my PD.

[WillowTree]

30. Hard as it may be to take, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

If the guy was running toward the danger in the defense of others, he'd qualify as a hero in that context as far as I'm concerned. What he might have done on his own time may or may not have been an entirely different matter.

He's dead now. Not seeing the point of crucifying him a second time.

[KingCharlemagne]

36. Make no mistake: white supremacists think black people should die or be slaves. So why is

the converse not also true? White supremacists deserve to die not a hero's death but one that lasts in infamy. That's the point of "crucifying him a second time"

[yawnmaster]

50. I don't think your statement holds up logically. Deserving to die a non-hero's death is not the...

converse of "white supremacists think black people should die..."

[WillowTree]

58. The majority of the people at that demonstration were black.

Those cops rant into the danger in defense of those there. Eleven of them were shot in the process. In the context of that night, they are all heros in my book.

YMMV.

[whathehell]

84. Thank you

I agree.

[Wayburn]

34. These cops were hero's. They were protecting the folks protesting the cops!

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. That's what we do now, right? Full vetting of the murdered.

Sad state of affairs. Wonder if our racists will get the irony.

[malaise]

43. Oh My

Thanks sis! Truth will out

[uponit7771]

137. +1, His FB has a like of UIC... wtf... I would at LEAST be having a sit down with this guy if he

... was on my force.

[REP]

44. False premise. Being murdered is not heroic.

Hero is a word that is so overused it is almost meaningless anymore. I have no idea if Ahrens did anything heroic while meeting his death, such as shielding others from bullets, or if he just died.

If he did forfeit his life to save someone else, then yes, that's noble and his alleged repellent beliefs don't negate the one good act; nor would that one good act redeem his repellent beliefs.

If he was just murdered by an equally delusional madman, well there's some poetic justice but no heroism.

[struggle4progress]

46. "But what if the sniper accidentally shot somebody who might have been an asshole?"

Um ... yeah ... Well, don't quit your day-job for a law career quite yet

[redwitch]

48. Still a murder victim. nt

[kacekwl]

49. Probably should not go there.

The man is dead and died doing his job. Brings nothing to the story.

[Bradical79]

51. Mixed feelings

At the time he was killed, he was doing the right thing. Protecting the protesters who were protesting the police. It does show a part of a bigger problem that needs corrected, and that's white supremicists infiltrating law enforcement. Being an open white supremicist should disqualify you from being a police officer. It's crazy that being too smart can get you disqualified, but being too racist doesn't.

[Marr]

52. My god, this is gross.

I'm amazed Huffington Post is hosting that article.

If you're rationalizing murder, you're on the wrong side, period.

[840high]

64. ...!100++++

[lapucelle]

82. It's the same HuffPo blog site

where a blogger posted the "story" about Hillary that claimed her emails showed that she was ordering drone strikes.

[cwydro]

112. Thank you.

Posts like this make DU look bad.

It's really despicable.

[Oneironaut]

115. HuffPo has been garbage for a while.

Keep in mind that this is the site that had Greg Gutfeld as the leading blogger for some days.

[Lance Bass esquire]

53. If it's true than he redeemed himself with this Karma and can move on. n/t

[Separation]

55. He even shaved his head

Definitely a skinhead

[clarice]

57. Based on your last two threads, I have to wonder what planet you live on. I've never seen such hate

[LongtimeAZDem]

89. +1 (nt)

[billhicks76]

59. Derelict FOXMSNBCCNN

These organizations are the problem. They are the ones who also need to be held accountable.

[Binkie The Clown]

60. For the media a slain cop is a symbol, not a real person.

Simplify everything into black and white, no shades of grey, so that the ignorant masses can grasp it. That's the media's job. Or so they believe.

[840high]

61. Nobody deserves to be killed.

[63splitwindow]

63. Yep, this thread represents an unproductive, if not counter-productive, endeavor. nt

[840high]

66. this op deserves to be trashed.

[KingCharlemagne]

195. Not even Hitler? - nt

3

[63splitwindow]

67. It DOES appear to be a "fanning the flames" attempt. nt

[lapucelle]

72. The writer cites very little evidence other that of "Internet sleuths"

and the meme they created. I think I'll withhold judgement for the moment.

Moreover, given that this article is on the HuffPo blogger site, not the main site, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Here's the author's source for his story.
http://empireofloathing.com/index.php/2016/07/10/working-as-intended/

[uponit7771]

139. This is false, his face book page likes is enough... a like of UIC is worthy of a sit down by itself

... most Americans aren't into White Supremacist symbols ... this guy was a little to close for comfort.

This isn't about just what someone dug up on the internet...

I would've no doubt had a sit down, the tats are on his body... disturbing

[DemoTex]

75. Nil mortuii dire nisi bonum ..

Especially when "might have been" is part of a post mortem accusation.

[Chemisse]

78. Really? Are we smearing the victim to makes his death sort of okay - here on DU?

The man's personal beliefs are not pertinent to his killing. He didn't deserve to die because he was a white supremacist (if he was).

Was he a 'hero' because he was shot while doing his job? Not necessarily, and I bristle when cop = auto-hero. But certainly some of the officers who were at that scene acted in a heroic fashion. So I am okay with them being called heroes in a blanket fashion.

[shawn703]

87. Do you think he would have considered the label a smear

Or something to be proud of?

[LongtimeAZDem]

91. We cannot ask him because he was murdered; so, your post simply continues the smear (nt)

[Chemisse]

176. Blaming the victim of a crime because of his unrelated beliefs or actions is despicable.

It was despicable when Trayvon Martin was made to look like a thug so everyone could be comfortable with the way he was stalked and murdered. It was equally despicable when every black victim of a police shooting was made to look like he somehow deserved it.

And that is exactly what people in this thread are doing to the cop. I don't give two shits what that man was like when he was alive. He was killed by a stranger in cold blood - just because he was a white cop. We are horrified when that happens to unarmed black men when accosted by police; we should be equally horrified when it happens to a police officer via a sniper.

[840high]

241. Amen.

[cstanleytech]

93. If you did deep enough you will find that most people are not perfect and have issues which is

why I dont think this is really material and the only issue is 5 people were murdered in cold blood by an asshole with a gun.

[BainsBane]

96. A person doesn't have to be a hero for their murder to be tragic.

[DinahMoeHum]

97. To paraphrase Bogart's character RIck, Ahrens got a lucky break. . .

. . .Last month, he was just another police officer with white supremacist tendencies.
Today he is one of the honored dead.

[MohRokTah]

108. So it appears this cop was no angel?

Could he have actually been a neo-nazi thug?

[radical noodle]

109. Victim shaming either way is wrong

It's wrong for those who promote theories about Trayvon Martin and others, then say they're thugs, implying they deserve to be killed. But if I condemn that, I condemn this. It would mean something if Officer Ahrens was the shooter of a minority, because it would be a clue as to why. In this case, it doesn't matter unless you can show that he had mistreated blacks and other minorities in some serious manner.

I understand your reasonings behind posting this; just don't agree.

[okasha]

111. Not too long ago,

a poster of Irish ancestry was repeatedly harassed for using the Celtic Cross as an avatar. The harassers claimed that it was the Iron Cross and that the poster was fostering anti-semitism by using it. (The person leading that little gang made a specialty of calling any criticism of Bernie Sanders anti-semitic.. Most if not all of that merry little band have since gone elsewhere, whether PPR'd or self-exiled.)

With that in mind, I think the "evidence" in this article is unclear at best. The cross could as easily be a Cross of Malta as an Iron Cross, which would fit with the Crusader theme of the shield. I don't think there are enough facts on the table to make a judgement.

What we do know is that the officer died while protecting black civilians protesting racism. Hero till proven otherwise.

[LongtimeAZDem]

114. +1 (nt)

[B2G]

121. Hell it could be a surfers cross.

He was born and raised in LA.

Digesting blog post, IMO.

[okasha]

123. I had no idea there was such a thing as a surfer's cross.

Interesting.

Edited to add--according to Google, the same cross is used by some bikers and VW enthusiasts.

The Bug is racist. Who knew?

[B2G]

124. Yep. Big with the surf crowd years ago.

Not sure if it's still a thing anymore.

[Igel]

169. That's why we say we like "critical thinking."

One question for critical thinking is always, "What don't I know that might be relevant? What are alternative explanations for the data? Could they fit together differently?"

This is "I know this guy's a racist, so I'll take anything that can be made to support my argument as proof." That's the heart and core of motivated reasoning, and it's what critical thinking is supposed to squash.

Or we could still wonder how he sports signs that show he's a RW racist Christian and also a neo-pagan. You'd think perhaps one or the other. Sort of like claiming that somebody is an Arab Muslim fanatic out to kill the English because he's actually a Scots Highlander.

All the news that fits they print.

[uponit7771]

142. That wasn't the only symbol and you know it, he has a like of the UIC on his FB page!! That in and

... of itself is sit down worthy...

WTF...

Come one people, read the article... one by itself wouldn't be print worth but he put the tats on his fingers were the 88ers look first !!

Fuck that, this shit is disturbing... read the whole thing... of course one symbol = meh... 3 - 4 of them and a like of tRump = wtf... lets have a talk.

no doubt

[Oneironaut]

116. There was no point to this article than clickbait.

The evidence provided is laughable. This is slanderous. Huffington once again makes herself look like a fool to host such garbage.

[uponit7771]

135. I disagree, I read the article and if a black man had 3 - 4 symbols of black supremacist signs ...

... tattoo'd on them, been a part of a police department that was prosecuted for recruiting black supremacist to join them, liked openly racist stupid ass's like Louis Farrakhan (he liked Donald Trump) and was claimed by a white supremacist group to be one of their own...

then it would be print worthy IF ... IF an FBI report was published outlining black supremacist joining police forces.

All of that by itself, not worth typing... All of that together is worth a look

JMHO

[malaise]

140. +1,000

Notice how quickly the media found his photo with the African print shirt and the black power sign

[HipChick]

162. yes...amazing double standards..

[uponit7771]

168. +1000....Yeap, more demonetization of anything afrocentric

[Igel]

172. On his main Facebook page.

Go to Facebook, rather hard not to find it. It's what he wanted people to see.

[Igel]

171. Right.

Esp. if one said "Nation of Islam" and the other said "Vodou".

Lots of Muslims are also into Haitian vodou, and we can only assume that most of those practitioners do go on hajj in their lifetimes.



Those symbols mean more than just what people on the "other side" and who really need to believe the worst think. It would even seem most Asatru folk aren't necessarily even racists.

[lapucelle]

225. Pourquoi avez-vous rendu le poème en français ?

A mon avis, la disposition des rimes est plus mélodieuse en anglais.,

[OhioBlue]

194. I agree, the HuffPo article is completely disgusting.

The "evidence" is all circumstantial and speculative. The article also states "may have been" while then asserting he was a racist. It is HORRIBLE journalism and we should be better than that at DU. I also cannot see how we should be judging ANYONE based on Facebook likes. People may "like" something to follow their posts, people may also "like" something because a post comes up that they agree with but have no idea what the site is about. Furthermore, sometimes people "like" something without even realizing that they have "liked" it.

I also disagree with the entire premise that we should question his heroism based on an internet theory. We don't know if he died in the process of an heroic act or was simply gunned down randomly as a victim. However, he is a public servant that died in the line of duty and we should be respectful enough not to label him based on the incredibly weak case made in the article.

[DustyJoe]

122. Dancing on graves, a common sight here nt

[VOX]

178. In this case, the grave has a parquet floor and the Glenn Miller Band standing by...

But I hear what you're saying.

[melman]

143. This guy is an asshole

Just a murder apologist.

[gopiscrap]

144. figures

I'm not surprised at all. I would be more surprised if he wasn't.

[glennward]

150. Actually, when I heard his wife speak a chill went over me. She didn't sound like a grieving wife.

She sounded like what i now think she is.

[gopiscrap]

155. agreed

[craigmatic]

159. No he was no hero and given time he probably would've killed innocent minorities

it just so happens that he got got first.

[TipTok]

160. Some of the amazing 'facts' included in this in depth investigation include nuggets like this...

Then there’s Ahrens’ work history. Before becoming a police officer in Dallas in 2002, Ahrens worked as a technician with the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department. The same LASD that has a history of white supremacist gangs operating within the Department. Perhaps not coincidentally, one of the primary gangs during Ahrens’ time with the LASD was known as the Lynwood Vikings.

Hard hitting stuff...

[uponit7771]

173. Well yeah... you're right... lets just ignore the UIC like, tRump like and all the other 88er tats..

... on him cause all of them don't mean shit and neither does the WN sight claiming him.

:rolleye: even more.

Separate? nah... all on one body?! its worthy of a sit down no doubt

[TipTok]

175. It just shows an ignorance of the culture...

Crusader shields and biker tattoos do not automatically put one in the 'proud, open white supremacist' category.

Maybe he was... but it is in no way conclusive. It's not even that strong of an indicator frankly.

[uponit7771]

187. I agree, those ALONE don't mean a lot but none of them are alone and we both know that...

... I read the article and the WN sight posted in the link... they make way more of a case than one tat.

[TipTok]

193. Their case is circumstancial at best...

... and that is certainly a far cry from the "open and proud white supremicist" they claim.

[trueblue2007]

179. after reading this HUFF POST ARTICLE.... i think officer Ahrens was an evil man. Racist &

oh sure,,,, rest in peace fella.

[LongtimeAZDem]

181. "The day before his death, he bought dinner for a homeless man and his dog,

a kindness he frequently extended, Barrientos said. Ahrens also encouraged other officers to reach out to the man and say hello when they passed."

A look at the lives of the Dallas ambush victims

There are a lot of pretty despicable people posting in this thread.

[uponit7771]

191. There are a lot of people being dismissive about the FBI study too.

[bluestateguy]

184. I read the article

and the evidence seems inconclusive. He may well have been a full-blown racist, but maybe not too.

[uponit7771]

190. I think there should be no maybe at all... I see those signs after being pulled over and I'm going..

... start praying for my life and my kids lives...

The LEOs should be far removed from that kind of shit imho... after the FBI study how in the world does any of that help

[HipChick]

199. Racism can be a view of the world

that is not always tatto'd on your arm..

[dembotoz]

185. guess we will just have to wait til the movie comes out

i am sure scripts are already being written

wonder if the gop will slap something together like they did with bengazi or the american sniper drivel to hit theaters before november

[ContinentalOp]

192. A Texas cop "might" have been a white supremacist?

My, what a shocking development.

[giftedgirl77]

205. The same people on this thread giving you flack for

"sullying" this cop are the same ones that will be yelling but look at his record when a POC is executed by cops. You all aren't fooling anyone.

[HipChick]

206. Excellent observation...

[giftedgirl77]

208. ...

[LongtimeAZDem]

228. You guys are every bit as bad as Trump

He's out there saying, "They asked for a moment of silence for the shooter!"
You're out there saying "One of the cops was a racist!"

Peas in a pod.

[giftedgirl77]

233. If you say so.

This actually goes to add context to the racist infiltration of law enforcement which was done intentionally & quite obviously to any person with brown skin in this country.

You comparing minorities to trump is no different than the morons on Fox comparing BLM to the Klan. If you can't see the difference you're a lost cause.

[Pacifist Patriot]

235. Not only is the point being made sailing way over your head...

The comparison to Trump crosses a line in my opinion. That's just vile.

[LongtimeAZDem]

240. Their point is vile, and this OP crosses the line, IMO (nt)

[ileus]

211. So the shooter knew this before he killed Ahrens?

[Vattel]

212. and DU sinks to a new low

[ileus]

213. I suppose if you kill 1000 cops, and one was a bad guy it was worth it.

killing is a good thing if you kill the right person?


Shit like this is beyond a new low...

[BKH70041]

217. The commentors at PuffingtonHost agreeing with the writer is incredible.

I just hope they aren't registered Democratic party members. People like that don't belong anywhere near the Party.

[whistler162]

226. I am sure the author of the artricle

and the "researchers" can find jobs with any number of Law Enforcement organizations that use the type of reasoning and investigative skills to pull over, arrest, and harass people!

[Martin Eden]

232. Being a victim doesn't make one a hero

All cops who serve and protect without abusing their authority are heroes, to some extent. It is a difficult and dangerous job, but necessary. I certainly don't have what it takes to be a good police officer, and would never pursue it as a career.

If Lorne Ahrens was indeed a racist then he is a bad person, and if his racism carried over into his work he was a bad cop.

However, I don't see the point of digging up dirt on him. Just let him lie under it.