Terrorists are full of shit.

[bravenak]

Why should I believe this guy cares anymore about that book than that flag and that millitary style vehicle? I don't.
ISIS reminds me of a big ass bunch of gangbangers who kill and rape and Terrorize nations waving that book around like a prop. Do they believe? Probably, yes. Does that mean they are doing it for their GOD? Fuck no. They are power hungry assholes who want to kill and take and destroy, the book is just a prop, God is just an excuse... An easy excuse.

Reminds me of Christian serial killers who 'find' Jesus. They knew about Jesus the entire time they were killing folks, it had nothing to do with Jesus. Full of shit.

These terrorists are not Muslims who are trying to live their lives and do God's work and accept and care for this earth they feel they are lucky to be blessed with. These are terrorists. They care more for Killing and power than for any God they could possibly believe in. Just because they say they are doing this in God's name don't mean they are doing it FOR God. They are full of shit.

[meow2u3]

1. Very well put

Terrorists are nothing but two-bit criminals in the eyes of both God (if you believe) and society, abusing God's name to justify commit atrocities. They were criminals before they hid behind religion; they're criminals now and we should treat them like common criminals instead of acting like scaredy-cats--which is exactly what they want!

[Hulk]

90. Amen to that!

Just sick, twisted, mudering thugs intent on causing pain and suffering, so they wrap themselves in a black banner and piss on their own god.

Barbarian savages. They've always existed in time, and sadly they probably always will.

[meow2u3]

91. These blasphemous savages caused many people to repudiate religion

by their very criminal behavior. It doesn't matter what religion they twist, be it Judiasm, Islam, or Christianity--or even Buddhism or Hinduism!

[sheshe2]

2. 100% agree, bravenak.

[bravenak]

138. I hate to hate people but I think I hate them

[sheshe2]

139. I know honey,

I do.

I am having a hard time now, hard to post in depth.

Love you always.

[bravenak]

140. Ok

I hope things smooth out soon.

[Rex]

3. So he uses his left hand to touch the flag?

I have a feeling he knows nothing about what he holds up in his right hand. Fundamentalist are sad people. He probably wants to kill people so this is the fastest way he could find to do it.

Is that one of our hummers we left behind? Sigh.

[bravenak]

9. That's the thing

We keep leaving our shit behind for these assholes to steal. I notice they have nothing against lying, stealing, cheating, murder... But they SWEAR, they do it for god.

[dhill926]

4. well said...

and I totally agree...

[wildeyed]

5. Their god conveniently wants them to do all the horrible things

that they wanted to do anyway and hates all the same people they hate. Rather convenient. Also why I have never been able to get my own head around the god thing. What if I am just creating god in my own image too? It is almost impossible to avoid that pitfall, IMO.

[bravenak]

10. Very damn convenient

[Marr]

74. How is it convenient?

These are people who literally blow themselves up. That's about the most inconvenient experience a person could have. It makes self-flagellation look like a massage.

But they do it, because they're fanatically devoted to something they consider to be infinitely more important than their comfort and convenience or even their lives-- their religion.

[EL34x4]

101. +1

We better figure this out, and fast.

The ignorance far too many Westerners have of Islam is mind-boggling.

[Marr]

108. It really is.

What's especially exasperating to me is that these are the same people who so quickly complain about western-centric thinking. And yet they blow off these extremists' own words, assure everyone they don't really mean all that, and substitute their own very modern, western thoughts in their place.

I saw someone here the other day seize on a poorly chosen adjective in a post criticizing Islam, and suggest the poster was a misogynist. This was in the very same post where they were defending Islam, which is probably the single biggest force on the planet for the oppression of women (not to mention gays, religious minorities, etc.). There seems to be almost zero actual thought going on-- just a mad dash to shove the world behind a lens they're familiar with.

[skepticscott]

22. So they grew up

wanting to destroy historical and cultural artifacts, right?

Do you even listen to yourself?

[Squinch]

30. What the heck are you talking about?

[skepticscott]

34. Sheesh, you have no clue, do you?

Google is your friend. But why are you even presuming to comment in this thread if you know so little about what ISIS has done?

[Squinch]

45. I know perfectly well what ISIS has done, but your comments have nothing to do with

the post you are responding to.

I suppose though that, as you did with me, you will simply suppose that no one is as brilliant as you are and none can keep up with you.

Truth is, your post is a complete non sequitur and makes no sense in its context.

[skepticscott]

75. Yes, the OP tried to make the same claim

Her lack of understanding doesn't make it true any more than yours does.

[Squinch]

98. Poor you. No one understands anything but you. It must be very lonely.

[Old Crow]

104. Can you please plainly explain your point?

I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. I'm just reading through the thread and I can't understand what you're trying to say.

[wildeyed]

40. Huh?

Who was talking about artifacts? Please make your point and perhaps we can discuss, but no need to be rude.

[Squinch]

46. Careful. Now he'll tell you that you shouldn't presume to comment in the thread because

his post makes no sense.

[wildeyed]

50. Maybe they mistook me for someone else?

[Squinch]

51. Nope. It appears to just be the way he rolls.

[skepticscott]

83. You said that they're just doing things they wanted to do all along

and that they're just using "god" as an excuse. My post about artifacts was simply one example of how silly that is.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you...sorry.

[wildeyed]

85. You posted a random fact with zero explanation of how that related to my post

and then followed it up with a nasty rhetorical question about my ability to pay attention. Which you just did again. You explain nothing and seem interested in understanding even less. Your attacks and logical fallacies are just an attempt to derail any legitimate discussion that might go on in this thread.

Example A: We are now discussing your attacks instead of the actual topic which is actually interesting. You, on the other hand, are not. I am done with you.

[Corporate666]

60. The religion is pretty clear on where it stands

if people think it is just misunderstood, they are deluding themselves.

And yes, christianity and judaism are dark and evil also. The difference is that muslim countries never underwent the enlightenment that europe and westernized countries did, where they came up with silly rationalizations for why their religious texts were not to be taken literally, or that they represented rules that somehow don't apply anymore.

But the religions themselves are pretty clear. Islam is pretty clear.

Apostasy is punishable by death.

Homosexuality is punishable by death.

Blasphemy is punishable by death.

Women are worth less than men.

It's OK to take women for sex slaves.

It's OK to torture infidels who do something against islam or against believers.



and on and on.

The religion is what says it. The people are who do it because they are too blinded by intolerance to do anything different.

[wildeyed]

84. The texts were written in the Iron Age.

Our moral and scientific understanding was different then. The vast majority of religious followers interpret the texts in light of modern understanding and see them as a small part of their religious life. Only a few crazies decide to interpret the entire religion from an Iron Age text. Some, like the Unitarians, decided to offload the book part entirely. Pretty sure Sufis are not focusing on punishing apostates by death, either.

It's knowing the difference between the finger and the moon. The book is a finger that points at the moon, just a tool that might help guide and teach. Don't mistake the finger for the moon. Which is what fundamentalists (and you) are doing, IMO.

[YoungDemCA]

109. +1. Well said. (nt)

[Squinch]

112. I keep going back to the fact that Islam is now at about the same age that Christianity was

around the times of the Crusades and the Inquisition.

There are parallels in this need to make everyone else follow the strictest and cruelest interpretation of the texts, and to kill those who do not.

[Marr]

142. Every year, Spain translates more new books into Spanish than the *entire* Muslim world

has translated into Arabic in 1000 years. That's a disturbing fact, is it not? In places with Sharia law, the punishment for heresy is death. The punishment for apostasy is death.

There's a reason Islam hasn't experienced an Enlightenment period. It's a system that is considerably more airtight than most other religions, and more easily hands power to society's worst, most regressive specimens.

If Europe had put every Voltaire and Rousseau on the chopping block, they never would've seen an Enlightenment either.

[Squinch]

148. Voltaire and Rousseau came after the Inquisition and the Crusades. They would not have

been allowed before.

[Marr]

149. Ok... and what fueled the Inquisition and the Crusades...?

Religious devotion.

Why does this only work in one direction for you? Religion fueled the Inquisition, but ISIS (which has in a few short years racked up a bodycount more than 20x's that of the Inquisition's 300+ year run, btw) isn't fueled by religion?

[Squinch]

150. Blablablafightfightfight.

You're arguing against things you have said in your head, not anything I have said.

Have a nice day.

[Marr]

151. No, you're making contradictory arguments and running off instead of

just admitting the inconsistency.

[Squinch]

152. Blablablafightfightfightprojectprojectproject.

[Marr]

153. I'll take that as a concession.

You're being very childish.

[Squinch]

154. Blablablafightfightfight. All by yourself.

[mcar]

6. I agree

[SCantiGOP]

7. So true

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. Daesh is an organized criminal gang. . . . nt

[bravenak]

11. Yep, a fucking gang of thugs

[ReRe]

12. Amen!

Just like all wingers of the world (including ours), they think they can get away with murder if it's in "God's name." There isn't a religious bone in any of their bodies. EVIL is what they all are.

[JI7]

13. losers in life and using religion to justify what they do

[George II]

14. Precisely, well done.

[newthinking]

15. Most of these are really just mercenaries interested in making money and gaining

power over others.

There was a ton of money being poured into ISIS. There have been multiple stories with interviews where they established that many of the "warriors" are not believers and are doing this for other reasons. Of course the MSM would not report that much as it is not good material for their real interests (the MSM) and there is more money in fear of others, division, religious fear, etc.

[bravenak]

18. Like a crusade of killers

[ErikJ]

16. Mohammed telling them 72 virgins await them doesnt help

I'm sure some of them are killing just to meet them. U can tell radicalized rubes anything and they'll believe it. A lot like ours here.

[bravenak]

17. Mohammed has not told them a damn thing

They believe whatever is convenient.

[skepticscott]

21. As do all religious believers

What's your point?

[bravenak]

25. What's yours?

This is not about all religious believers, it is about lying ass terrorists.

[skepticscott]

36. Terrorists who do what they do

as a result of their religious beliefs.

No one ever said this was about ALL religious believers. That's just bullshit you made up.

[bravenak]

42. You in particular said 'all religious believers...'

[wildeyed]

87. YOU said "As do all religious believers"

Post 21. That's just bullshit YOU said. Perhaps you misspoke?

[wildeyed]

44. 99.9% of modern religious believers manage to not kill, rape and pillage

in the name of their god. The entire point of the OP was that most religious believers believe what is convenient and comfortable, use their beliefs to justify what they wanted to do anyway. No one is even disagreeing with you, really.

[ErikJ]

29. The Koran is full of his commandments supposedly

straight from Allah's mouth to only him.

[Squinch]

28. I read somewhere that this is a mis-translation. The passage is correctly translated "70 raisins."

True story.

They're going to be pissed.

[oasis]

47. My source on the "raisin/virgin" thing is the late Christopher Hitchens.

He said raisins.

[Squinch]

49. I saw it somewhere else, though. I can't remember where I saw it, but I know it wasn't CH.

It could be bullshit. I hope it's not.

[Tikki]

19. Some churches, temples and mosques are where hate is first heard and nurtured.

Tikki

[bravenak]

27. We should focus energy on that of course

But stop pretending these people are being honest about their motivations.

[skepticscott]

20. Utter horseshit

Why are their targets and actions so specifically tailored? Saying "religion is just an excuse" is meaningless crap. An excuse for what? What do you think they're going to do with political power? Change the zoning laws? Reform the tax code? Of course not. They're going to impose religious law. It's not complicated.

[bravenak]

26. What are you even going on about? Really?

It seems a bit out of sync with the op.

[skepticscott]

37. You're the one who said that religion is just an excuse in the OP

And now you're saying my direct response to that is out of sync with the OP? Seriously? I'm sure it's out of sync with what you expected (as usual), namely that everyone would be in fawning agreement with you, but I don't give a rat.

[bravenak]

38. Umm hmm. That's great!

[opiate69]

58. + a metric shit ton.

[Marr]

70. +1

[wildeyed]

48. Get rich and rape women, mostly.

They are going to impose "religious" laws that conveniently justify the horrible things they want to do anyway. It's about power, not religion.

People change zoning laws and tax codes to gain power and then justify it with religion here all the time. And for the same reasons too. They want money and power. Saying God is on their side just gives them a way to duck legitimate debate. They appeal to the Invincible Authority of God, of which they are conveniently the expert, and everyone else can go pound sand. Same old, same old....

[Squinch]

99. It is very interesting how a certain group simply doesn't see this. Of course

you are right.

They are thinking that we are giving this bullshit brand of fundamentalist Islam a pass and saying it is incidental to the actions of the terrorists.

This is not even remotely true, but the thought of this argument they have projected enrages them so hard that they can't even begin to hear what we are really saying.

It is always the same with these guys.

[world wide wally]

23. Yep.

Nothing more than a gang of murdering thieves who use Allah as an excuse. Kind of like if the Mafia said they were doing it for Jesus

[forest444]

31. Useful idiots.

If and when any of them ever discover they're being used, they're promptly killed. Live by the sword...

[Hekate]

24. Well, yeah

KnR

[giftedgirl77]

32. Thank you.

I've been trying to make this damn argument all freaking day.

[VOX]

33. They're murderous chumps who fancy themselves "noble."

But I do not believe, at its very bottom, that it's truly about religion. Like so many upstarts, they've been recruited and financed by disingenuous fat-cats who could give a shit about religion. It's political power they're after ($$$$$), and they're being used as the muscle. And theyre not ignorant about the petro-resources they're sitting on, either.

[bravenak]

41. Very much a power grab

They try to sound noble while destroying everything

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

35. Without Allah, would they really kill themselves?

There are very few periods in history when you can get that many people to kill themselves. Religion most definitely plays a part with them believing in some crazy eternal reward.

[bravenak]

39. People have gone to war over which rich person had the better claim to rule them

So yes. People fight over anything. Kill over anything. Justify it in amazing ways.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

65. Suicide attacks are still relatively rare

Even when overpowered by a stronger enemy army, one still has the hope of surviving. That's why nations did not and do not use kamikaze pilots to fight wars like the Japanese did. That was a relatively rare occurrence in the history of war.

[spanone]

43. K&R...

[ismnotwasm]

52. Kick and recommended

You should hear what my Muslim friends say about them..

[rock]

53. As usual, bravenak

You have hit the nail on the head.

[7wo7rees]

54. Hey Brave- have you ever heard of Chalmers Johnson?

Try reading some. What about "War is a Racket" by General Smedley Butler?
Just the 1st 2 I come up with.
I really wish you could find a way to temper your passion.

[bravenak]

55. I wish people would worry about the op rather than my reading list or my passion.

I find that when I worry about what others should do or what I want them to do, I don't use that time to worry about myself or what I should do. I find it best to mind my own business and let others tend to theirs. I call it 'minding not tending'. Everybody should try it.

[7wo7rees]

95. Sure Brave, got it. nt

[puffy socks]

56. Yes they are.

They say they will kill anyone who doesn't praise Islam and pay taxes..
Another said slavery is a good and necessary thing and so girls will be given to whomever they decide. None of this crap has anything to do with Islam.

I had posted this in another thread earlier
But thought I'd post it again here for those interested.
What I Discovered From Interviewing Imprisoned ISIS Fighters
They’re drawn to the movement for reasons that have little to do with belief in extremist Islam.
Life under the Islamic State was just terror, he says; he only fought because he was terrorized. Others may have done it from belief, but he did not. His family needed the money, and this was the only opportunity to provide for them.
Many assume that these fighters are motivated by a belief in the Islamic State, a caliphate ruled by a caliph with the traditional title Emir al-Muminiin,“Commander of the faithful,” a role currently held by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi; that fighters all over the world are flocking to the area for a chance to fight for this dream. But this just doesn’t hold for the prisoners we are interviewing. They are woefully ignorant about Islam and have difficulty answering questions about Sharia law, militant jihad, and the caliphate...

"The Americans came,” he said. “They took away Saddam, but they also took away our security. I didn’t like Saddam, we were starving then, but at least we didn’t have war. When you came here, the civil war started.”

"These boys came of age under the disastrous American occupation after 2003, in the chaotic and violent Arab part of Iraq, ruled by the viciously sectarian Shia government of Nouri al-Maliki. Growing up Sunni Arab was no fun. A later interviewee described his life growing up under American occupation: He couldn’t go out, he didn’t have a life, and he specifically mentioned that he didn’t have girlfriends. An Islamic State fighter’s biggest resentment was the lack of an adolescence. Another of the interviewees was displaced at the critical age of 13, when his family fled to Kirkuk from Diyala province at the height of Iraq’s sectarian civil war. They are children of the occupation, many with missing fathers at crucial periods (through jail, death from execution, or fighting in the insurgency), filled with rage against America and their own government. They are not fueled by the idea of an Islamic caliphate without borders; rather, ISIS is the first group since the crushed Al Qaeda to offer these humiliated and enraged young men a way to defend their dignity, family, and tribe. This is not radicalization to the ISIS way of life, but the promise of a way out of their insecure and undignified lives; the promise of living in pride as Iraqi Sunni Arabs, which is not just a religious identity but cultural, tribal, and land-based, too.

https://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-interviewing-isis-prisoners/


The man said he joined ISIS to get away from his life in Turkey, where he had few friends and his parents were pressuring him to study, marry and "straighten up" his life.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/captured-isis-fighter-joining-extremists-syria-ruined-my-life-n398976

[melman]

57. The flag

You mean the one that says “There is no god but Allah. Mohammad is the messenger of Allah."

That flag?

[bravenak]

59. Yeah. The flag that represents them obtaining glory and power through violence

Killers quote scripture often. Gangsters wear crucifixes as they blast through enemy gangs. Just because they SAY they do it for God does not make it so.

[PersonNumber503602]

61. I would think the motives vary from person to person

Some do it for similar reasons to those you stated.

Some do it because they want to be part of something bigger than themselves.

Some do it for revenge over something.

Some do it because they truly believe they are doing their god's work.

And whatever other thousands of reasons that might lead someone to do


I might get shit for saying this, but it's not much different than why people their nation's military, or the peace corps, or whatever. They all have different reasons, and I don't think anyone can say there is any single motive or set of motives for them.

[bravenak]

62. I agree with this

[Arazi]

63. Simplistic facile thinking

There are a lot of rationales for joining ISIS or becoming a terrorist or becoming radicalized.

Deeply held religious beliefs are certainly primary, studies prove that.

They are Muslims. They say they are and I believe them. Nobody gets to say who is or who is not a Muslim. Certainly not random anonymous Internet poster like you

[bravenak]

64. Where did anyone say they are not Muslims?

Strawman posts contribute nothing and should be ignored.

[PoutrageFatigue]

80. Well that would put an end to your repertoire then wouldn't it?

[skepticscott]

81. + a bazillion nt

[Arazi]

105. You did in your OP

These terrorists are not Muslims

And your nasty comment about strawman posts? Coming from you??

[bravenak]

116. You truncated my sentence to prove your point

That is deceptive. "These are not Muslims who..."

[Squinch]

103. You are missing the point entirely.

There are many versions of Islam. Billions of people worldwide choose to follow versions that don't include putting women in cages and setting fire to them because they don't accept the idea that they should be sex slaves.

For that matter, billions of Muslims worldwide don't require that their women walk around looking like potato sacks with eyes.

What makes THESE people who like to behead four year olds choose THIS particular form of Islam that encourages them to behead four year olds?

Yes, they believe they are Muslims. Yes, they believe they are the only Muslims that count.

But they chose the very specific interpretation of Islam that allows them to put those women in those cages, kill those children, throw gay people off cliffs, in short that gives them the green light to fully express the mentally deformed sick fucks that they are, in the company of other mentally deformed sick fucks.

They went looking for the interpretation that allowed them to do these things and they found it. If there was another cult of another religion that allowed them to do these things, they would be equally devout about that.

No one is defending this iteration of Islam, or saying that the perpetrators are not doing it in the name of Islam.

[Arazi]

106. The OP is all about how this is not being done in the name of Islam

There are multitudes of posters agreeing with them on this thread and all over this board.

And I do not, for one single second, believe these folks would become apostates. The type of Muslim attracted to radical Islam would never renounce the faith.

The fact remains that the Koran does give them all the rationale to be this monstrous it's just not PC here to say that despite the fact.

[Squinch]

110. No, the OP is about how saying that it is being done in the name of Islam is a ton of

bullshit. There is a significant difference.

Those who do these things say, and no doubt believe, that they are doing them in the name of Islam. But the fact is that they are doing these things because they are evil and sick and they are attracted to the permission this particular iteration of Islam gives them.

Yes, the Koran gives them the rationale. As the Bible gives fundamentalist Mormons the rationale to marry and sexually abuse their underage nieces.

Many people read the Koran and follow Islam and remain horrified by the idea of beheading four year olds. Many people read the Bible and never consider sexually abusing their underage nieces.

So it is not the Koran, then, nor the Bible that is the cause. It is the evil in the people who interpret them.

Yes, this particular iteration of Islam is evil and needs to be obliterated. But it is not about the Koran. It's about the evil in the people who are interpreting it.

[Arazi]

111. They say it themselves. Who are you and the OP to tell different?

It's the height of arrogance.

They tell you straight up they're doing the will of Allah and you're all like, "no, that's not any part of your rationale".

No way

[Squinch]

113. You are accusing me of something that is not anywhere in my posts about this to you.

In fact, you are saying I said something, when in fact I said the opposite.

You appear to need to believe that people are saying something they are not.

Enjoy, but I am out. There is no conversation to be had here.

[bravenak]

119. Thank you for this post

[Squinch]

121. It didn't do any good. I get that the difference between what you are saying and what

they are accusing you of saying might be difficult to see at first, but you explained it well, and so did others in this thread, but they seem hell bent on not understanding the difference between the two.

[Marr]

66. Another arrogant westerner, claiming to know the Arab mind better than they do themselves.

These people will tell you flatly why they do the things they do. That's what the man in the photo is doing.

Patting them on the head and saying, in effect, 'hush now, little foreigner, I'll explain what you *really* think' is about as condescending and self-important as it gets.

[bravenak]

67. They do say why

And it rarely has a damn thing to do with fufilling Gods plan.

[Gabi Hayes]

68. Paul Revere and all them guys: TERRORISTS! TRAITORS to the king!

[Marr]

69. That's just nonsense.

There is no shortage of video with members of ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups explaining in painful, tedious detail what motivates them and what their goals are. Following Allah's guidance is the central theme.

[bravenak]

72. I see alot of thirst for vengeance and rage against westerners

[Marr]

73. You haven't listened much then.

The vast majority of the statements I've heard and read centered on religious purity and advancing the faith through violence. They show a disdain for the west, yes-- but because they consider it sinful and wicked and godless.

[BeyondGeography]

76. Speaking of nonsense

Who cares what they say? They're either getting it wrong or Allah was a murderous xenophobic wife-beating homophobe. Which is it?

[Democat]

71. That's untrue

You know it is, but you want it to be true.

[skepticscott]

82. Amazing that someone who has a fit

about "whitesplainin'" ends up doing exactly the same thing in another context. You'd think she'd get just how arrogant it is.

[treestar]

88. You're claiming the same thing lol

You're claiming to know the Arab mind also. Interesting that you say Arab. What about nonArabic Muslims? Aren't they believing all this evil stuff too?

[Marr]

92. There's no interpretation from me. I'm describing their own statements.

The OP is ignoring their words and substituting her own, as though they could not possible describe their own motivations accurately.

[skepticscott]

94. Ummm...no

there's no mind-reading here. Just listening to what people come right out and say are their reasons for doing things. Duh. Whereas bravenak is saying she knows that what these people really think is exactly the opposite of what they're saying.

For some whacky reason, you're arguing that those are the same.

[treestar]

97. I don't necessarily believe what they say

It is not necessary to believe they have the motives they say they have. They can be lying. It can be propaganda.

The OP is correct, they are not purely religious. ISIS is full of people who want power and want to rule over others. They use religion for that. Religion is often used for that.

[bravenak]

117. Me neither. I do not beliebe their lying asses

[MellowDem]

77. Defending religious privilege is not going to help....

Islam does advocate for many things ISIS does, ignoring that because there happen to be over a billion followers is just defending religious privilege. Islam is part of the problem, and few on here would want to defend a lot of the heinous shit in the Koran and hadiths that ISIS and others rely on.

Pretending people can't be doing this for God is just ignoring history for the sake of sparing the feelings of people that identify with the same religion as ISIS.

It's a great privilege to identify with belief systems that are explicitly hateful and bigoted in their texts and claim to have no responsibility or connection to those that follow those parts of the texts.

[dubyadiprecession]

78. Their hearts are filled with miserable hatred, so it is easy for them to kill innocent people.

This is the message that terrorist groups like ISIS send us.

[Thinkingabout]

79. Agree, a bunch of gang bangers out to entertain themselves, wouldn't know

What to do with the world if they captured everyone.

[Albertoo]

86. "Terrorists are full of shit", an dthey are fueled by religions and/or nationalism

So f** religions, and f** nationalism

There are only Ancient Greece*/Enlightenment human rights

(* I know, I know..)

[Festivito]

89. Or, thinking it is all about religion fosters even more such attacks.

Like if it is really about groups, say a country, invading another country (a country with arbitrarily drawn country lines), and stealing its resources (say oil for example). So, we have some posse beating up someone else's posse and someone in the party of the second part wants to lash out at the party of the first part. Stupidly. Crazily. Maniacally. Ridiculously. Whateverly, it happens.

So, while we knee-jerk decide blanket-blame religion, the anger continues. The anger is really at the stealing, the death a mayhem surrounding the stealing.

But, we don't want to deal with that -- do we!

mifedly,

Fes

[backscatter712]

96. They seem religious enough to me.

When they say they're doing it for Allah and for the Prophet Mohammed, why shouldn't I take them at their word?

No, of course, not all 2 billion Muslims are out sawing people's heads off.

But that does not erase the fact that mainstream Islam has a huge amount of toxicity. Mainstream.

And it's not just in ISIS. It's enshrined in governments across the Muslim world from Indonesia to Africa.

If you're a woman, see what happens if you take a trip to Saudi Arabia and try driving a car. Let me know what happens.

Also, let me know what happens to people caught in same-sex relationships in Saudi Arabia, or Iran, or dozens of other countries.

Look what's been happening to atheists in Bangladesh. They're getting chopped up by thugs with machetes for the crime of blogging.

Islam seems to be at the core of plenty of misogynistic, homophobic, anti-democratic, intolerant, and violent behavior.

I'm not saying all Islam is like this - there's plenty of people trying to practice a chill, cool version of Islam. But when the violent, toxic flavors of Islam are out there fueling all this violence, and getting the backing of governments, that makes me ask questions.

[Arazi]

100. You're ignoring their very own words. They get to own their shit

and I certainly don't need you explaining it for me. They say they're doing it for Allah then who are you to say different, especially when there's boatloads of ISIS fighters saying the same thing over and over and over

[Spitfire of ATJ]

102. I say they're like a biker gang.

[bravenak]

132. Or a drug cartel. Organized crime

[PJMcK]

107. Terrorism has a 100% failure rate

There has never been a terrorist act that has succeeded. Governments do not change their policies because some idiots are willing to die while killing other people.

[DemonGoddess]

114. K&R!

The thing to remember with terrorists, is that they are extremists. Not only that, when they use religion as a shield, which is what they're doing, they simply use religion as the EXCUSE to perpetrate these awful crimes.

[ZombieHorde]

115. This is creative speculation.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence for your claim, but there seems to be evidence against your claim, such as the picture you posted.

[bravenak]

118. In the picture the things he cares for are prominently displayed

His flag has replaced the prayer mats, his millitary style vehicle gets lots of love, it is clean and nice. The book is dirty like it gets tossed around like a prop. But that flag and car is CLEAN. This is my opinion. I don't believe a mf thing a terorist has to say about his fake ass godly motives. Same folks say god wants them to kill innocent people. They are full of shit.

[ZombieHorde]

120. Books often get worn and dirty from regular use.

Some of my favorite books are in much worse condition than my other books. This is pretty normal.

[bravenak]

128. Flags get frayed and worn but that one is in tip top condition

Must be important.

[ZombieHorde]

133. Could just be a new flag.

I suspect both the book and the flag are important to that man. God, country (tribe), family seems to be a common value set.

[bravenak]

136. If he loves the book why no put a nice cover on it?

The flag gets replaced, the car gets washed, the book gets tossed on a table or in a sack until photo time. I say bullshit on them caring as much about God as they care about feeding their own desires. They are lying to themselves if they have fooled themselves into thinking any omnipotent force needs them to do a damn thing in it's name. They agree that God is all powerful but somehow thinks it needs their puny, weak, sad, pathetic, violent, ignorant, disgusting asses to help the most powerful entity in the universe get rid of random strangers and that raping women and killing babies is necessary to HELP this god. Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. They like killing. They like power. God is merely a tool.

[ZombieHorde]

144. I guess the same could be said about my favorite books.

Why does the most powerful being need us to feed or heal people? None of it makes sense to me, but faith is outside of logic, and very rarely pure or consistent.

[bravenak]

145. But you are not so passionate that you are willing to rape and kill for the idology in those books

I just don't believe them.

[ZombieHorde]

146. No. I don't feel compelled to hurt people from my favorite books.

We don't make policy, so our opinion on the matter is probably irrelevant outside of this thread, but though I don't care for the concept of identity, I like to respect how people identify. If someone says they love a god and adhere to a faith, then fine. I can be a bit of a drag when I start attacking identities.

[bravenak]

147. I can agree that they believe in their god

But I still say they are drawn to the most violent interpretation because that is who they are.

[Rex]

123. Well you said there is no such thing as good and evil, so this is about something you don't believe

in.

What evidence?

I can hold up the Bible and grab a flag hanging from the back of a truck. How is that any proof at all?

[ZombieHorde]

124. My post was about evidence.

I believe evidence for many things exists. Just because I don't believe there's any evidence for objective good and evil doesn't mean I don't believe in evidence for anything. Perhaps I'm misreading your reply.

[Rex]

125. Evidence this guy is good, evil or just a poser imo is not in just that picture.

I know they say a picture is worth a thousand words, but he could just be trolling for attention. Evidence tells me the person is an asshole if they really do support ISIS. I question if they ever even opened the book in their right hand.

I should have been more elaborate, sorry.

[ZombieHorde]

126. The OP says terrorists aren't motivated by their faith in God.

Islamic terrorists say they are motivated by their faith, and they act very strongly when they perceive blasphemy against their faith, so I don't have a solid reason to doubt that faith is a large motivator for them.

I didn't read good or evil in the OP, but I could have easily missed it. I often gloss over those things, which can affect my reading comprehension.

[Rex]

127. I agree with the OP, imo they are charlitans like 'profit ministries'.

Their real goal is an old story - money and power.

[Marr]

129. I'm sorry, but this is absurd. Of course they want power.

What do they want to do with it? You don't have to speculate-- men like the one in the picture have achieved power in many places already.

They use it to institute religious oppression; to enforce their religious doctrines by force, and drive out or kill anyone who doesn't conform to the faith.

[Rex]

130. You have to ask what they want to do with it?

But THIS guy...who the fuck knows maybe. Of course all they want is money and power. That is what the scam is all about, pretending to use God to get whatever the fuck you want.

My amazement is that it still works thousands of years later.

[bravenak]

134. Me too. Amazed it still works after thousands of years.

[Marr]

141. No, I don't have to ask-- that's my point.

As I said, men like the one in the picture have achieved power in many places already. They use it to institute religious oppression.

They are not just faking their religious devotion. Insisting otherwise is just projecting our own values onto something we'd prefer not to recognize. They state very plainly why they do these things.

[ZombieHorde]

131. Why do you think they are charlatans?

Seems likely to me that they want money and power for religious reasons.

[Rex]

135. Why would one need money or power if they have faith? Religious reasons as in to build a church?

Money and power to help feed the community? I keep hearing faith is all that is needed to be part of a religion. Does the Koran teach to be money and power hungry? I will admit to not knowing, but I bet it does not.

[ZombieHorde]

143. Seems to me people's politics dictates faith more than holy books.

In the US, we see Christians with opposite opinions on the true meaning of the Holy Bible. These divisions seem to fall along political lines. When one's politics change, the interpretation changes as well. So, I think IS interpretations will be different from Muslims who are opposed to IS.

[Rex]

122. They are full of shit, con men looking for an easy way out.

Charlatans, pretending their attitude is shaped by a God.

[bravenak]

137. Fuck yeah

Disgusting parasites sucking the life out of everything they touch