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Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:47 PM

Is this coup for real?

I normally hate CT but this is too odd. A poorly organized coup in a very professional military. And the embattled president having a press conference 5 hours after it starts?

We are seeing the death of even a semblance of freedom in Turkey.

And a president for life.

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is this coup for real? (Original post)
GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 OP
NuclearDem Jul 2016 #1
GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #3
NuclearDem Jul 2016 #6
athena Jul 2016 #2
radical noodle Jul 2016 #4
JonathanRackham Jul 2016 #5
bluedigger Jul 2016 #7
athena Jul 2016 #9
Warpy Jul 2016 #8
athena Jul 2016 #10
Warpy Jul 2016 #12
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2016 #11

Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:48 PM

1. Military coups in Turkey are not an unusual occurrence.

 

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:51 PM

3. Well, it has been a while

And they succeed because the entire military is behind it.

But the military has been brought to heel and this looks totally staged. I mean it is over in 6 hours?

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:03 PM

6. It seems to be a more complicated situation than usual.

 

Turkey is at a bit of a critical point in its history. They've been pushing for European Union membership for a long time, but after Iraq, they've seen a major opportunity to assert their dominance in Southwest Asia and essentially rebuild the Ottoman Empire. The conflict between the secular and Islamist parts of Turkish society has basically been a hallmark of Turkish 20th and 21st century history, but it's really been exacerbated by ISIS and the other Islamic extremism born of the Iraq War.

Who knows, maybe this will end up just being the result of a handful of disaffected members of the Turkish Armed Forces and not much to do with some grand shift in Turkish geopolitical positioning, but it's very difficult to apply Western political terminology and understanding to a very distinct and unique political situation in the world.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:48 PM

2. My thoughts exactly.

I posted the following a few minutes before you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028015947

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:56 PM

4. It's my understanding that not all the military was involved

If that is true, I can see how it wouldn't get very far. Watching it play out on TV and listening to people reporting from Turkey, I think it might well be real. But what do I know?

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 09:57 PM

5. NPR is doing live interviews right now.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:06 PM

7. My friend that is in Istanbul thinks so.

He flew in yesterday (for a wedding, I think) and is hunkered down at the Hilton. There's real shooting going on. He should know - this is his second.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:25 PM

9. Oh, I'm sure that part is real.

I don't think it's "staged". I just think the group that's behind it is not who Erdogan says it is.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:16 PM

8. CBS did mention the Gulen Movement as possibly being a great part of this

and it makes sense if only a small part of the military took part. Turkey has had military coups to remove wannabe strongmen in the past and they've always been accomplished quickly and permanently and followed by elections fairly quickly, the military having no interest in the daily running of the country.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:27 PM

10. The Gulenists and the secularists hate each other.

The media are alternately claiming that this is being carried out by the secularists and by the Gulenists. Which is it? This is like saying a coup in the U.S. was carried out by the religious right-wing faction of the Green Party.

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Response to athena (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:29 PM

12. I know and Erdogan hates them both

This is looking screwier and screwier.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Original post)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:28 PM

11. Sometimes coups are just poorly planned.

Does anyone remember the attempted coup of Gorbachev in the waning days of the Soviet Union? The coup plotters barely lasted a couple of days before Gorbachev was returned to power and the big winner was Boris Yelstin who achieved folk hero status during the whole ordeal for standing up against it.

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