I can still remember the daily repeated chants of "USA! USA! USA! USA!" outside my office window.

[stone space]

It was decades ago, in 1980, but the memory is still crystal clear.

Students and others would gather every day outside the administration building, which was right next to the math department here, wave flags and shout, "USA! USA!".

There was a restaurant here in Ames, with a sign posted, "Iranians not welcome here", first on small card, and later in huge red letters on a giant billboard next to the restaurant.

One day, a friend, who was married to an Iranian, was in an university dormitory elevator, and 5 guys got into the elevator with her.

They shouted "USA! USA!" at her.

By the time the elevator door opened, my friend's body was cut and bruised, and she had several broken ribs.

These were ugly, ugly times here in Iowa, and whenever I hear such chants, I am filled with fear.

[think]

1. Unbridled patriotism makes me nervous as well. That said at least it was a very minor part of the

convention and it was mostly used to drown out dissenters.

I can get over that. But if it had been a more central theme as the GOP makes it I would have been horrified at the focus on patriotism rather than issues.

The convention was very well put together and many important issues were highlighted.

But yes. I did get creeped out a bit during the USA chants for similar reasons...

[giftedgirl77]

2. What else would you have prefer that chanted?

Shut the fuck up is kind of long.

[think]

3. Good grief /nt

[leftynyc]

5. Poster asked a simple question

The chants were to drown out the dissenters still having a hissy fit and trying to interrupt history being made so they can become the story.

[think]

8. You must not have read my post. Cheers /nt

[leftynyc]

34. I most certainly did

Patriotism makes you nervous but if it were some other people expressing pride in their country I doubt very much you would dwell on their problems and get nervous about it - only the US gets held to an impossible standard where we have to be PERFECT in order to feel pride. So how would you have drowned out those petulant pissants who were trying to disrupt the history being made last night?

[think]

41. Patriotism got us into the Iraq war.

So a few people chanting "no more war" doesn't bother nearly as much as a country going to war based on lies.

A preemptive , illegal, and immoral war that cast shame on America in the world community. A war where torture and war crimes were ignored.

A war's costs can't be measured in just dollars and cents. I just read a story of vet who couldn't get medical help and committed suicide. A war where vets come home and some can't find jobs. Vets being homeless is still a problem.

A war where hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people die including women and children. Millions of Iraqis were scattered to the wind without a home or future.

All because the GOP was able to raise a patriotic fever that overwhelmed common sense and a sense of decency.

So excuse me if the protests of few at a convention doesn't freak me out as much as going to war for all the wrong reasons. Considering we are gearing up for more war in Iraq with a major battle very soon which we will be heavily involved this is very relevant.

[leftynyc]

47. Bad foreign policy along with anger and fear

bot us into Iraq. Not patriotism. I thank whoever may be listening every day that I don't live in a country where I wouldn't be able to do what I do - live alone, work where I want, do what I want, wear what I want, love who I want. Far from perfect but while some policies may be shameful, our country is not.

[think]

51. I love America but I am not blind to dark underpinnings of American foreign policy nor the excess of

patriotism that helped lead us into an illegal and immoral war.

Imperial President

By William Saletan - SEPT. 2 2004 4:16 AM

Opposing Bush becomes unpatriotic.

~Snip~

Not every country works this way. In some countries, the commander in chief builds a propaganda apparatus that equates him with the military and the nation. If you object that he's making bad decisions and disserving the national interest, you're accused of weakening the nation, undermining its security, sabotaging the commander in chief, and serving a foreign power—the very charges Miller leveled tonight against Bush's critics.

Are you prepared to become one of those countries?

When patriotism is impugned, the facts go out the window. You're not allowed to point out that Bush shifted the rationale for the Iraq war further and further from U.S. national security—from complicity in 9/11 to weapons of mass destruction to building democracy to relieving Iraqis of their dictator—without explaining why American troops and taxpayers should bear the burden. You're not allowed to point out that the longer a liberator stays, the more he looks like an occupier. You're not allowed to propose that the enormous postwar expenses Bush failed to budget for be covered by repealing his tax cuts for the wealthy instead of further indebting every American child.

If you dare to say these things, you're accused—as Kerry now stands accused by Cheney and Miller—of defaming America and refusing "to support American troops in combat." You're contrasted to a president who "is unashamed of his belief that God is not indifferent to America."You're derided, in Cheney's words, for trying to show al-Qaida "our softer side." Your Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts are no match for the vice president's five draft deferments...

Read more:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/ballot_box/2004/09/imperial_president.html

[ProfessorGAC]

89. I'm Patriotic

I opposed the wars you're talking about. I was quite certain that excuses were made to foment a pre-ordained war that had nothing to do with security, or even revenge.

I was sure those in charge were lying.

So, your hyper-generalized statement is not very accurate, as patriotism and support of illegal war actions are not inextricably linked.

[think]

91. Well I'm glad you didn't fall for the psuedo patriotism that included chants of USA and flag worship

The right wing GOP took it to extremes to manipulate those that couldn't get beyond that.

[obamanut2012]

16. The poster's question was legitimate

The chants were to drown out teh protestors -- what should have been chanted?

[think]

21. Certainly not "shut the fuck up" and not because it's too long...

[snooper2]

86. How about MARCO....POLO! MARCO? POLO! MARCO? POLO!

[think]

88. That would be better and shorter...

[giftedgirl77]

23. Oh look I have a groupie.

[stone space]

4. They could have chanted "Hillary!". They could have chanted "No more wars!"

Neither one of those chants fill people with fear.

But instead, the crowd spontaneously erupted in a chant that gave it the sound and feel of a Trump rally.

A chant that sends shivers down my spine.

Had we been there as delegates, we would have been forced to leave when the disruptive chants of "USA! USA!" erupted out of nowhere.

I'm glad we weren't.

[giftedgirl77]

27. Lol, I think USA has been abused much like the word terror.

However, when you have ppl being obnoxious at a very patriotic event, during perhaps the most patriotic part of the event it fits.

[LoverOfLiberty]

39. Like "Family Values"

we've allowed one group to claim the phrase as their own, but we don't have to and we certainly don't intend to give it the same meaning when we say it.

[giftedgirl77]

56. Ugh, that one was absolutely ruined.

[loyalsister]

71. I think "America" has been abused worse

There are millions of people from another America who are not considered by USAers to be Americans. For the US to take ownership of it as if there is only one, despite Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and the rest of our enjoined continent is the height of arrogance.

[giftedgirl77]

73. Was that being shouted as well?

[loyalsister]

79. I have no idea

The reference was to abused language. Is it not a word specifically used as a stand in for United States of America among politicians and citizens alike?

[grossproffit]

43. Wow.

[LongtimeAZDem]

53. See, that's the problem with constant antagonism

you can end up provoking a reaction that is the opposite of what you want.

[giftedgirl77]

57. Lol, could you have imagined the outrage if ppl had just

started yelling STFU?

[JustAnotherGen]

80. You tell no lies

[Vattel]

12. how about "Hillary!" or "I'm with her!"? Surely you could think of a few more possibilities.

[giftedgirl77]

28. Lol, oh fucking please

[AngryAmish]

13. The SCSA "What?" chant?

[LoverOfLiberty]

37. Absolutely

Given the context, you are absolutely correct.

[giftedgirl77]

63. I knew it when I saw who was responding outraged & offended.

[progressoid]

62. “Veni, vidi, vici"

[Democat]

6. No matter what they chanted, someone on DU would be concerned

If it wasn't you, someone else would be complaining about some other words.

[stone space]

7. There are not all that many things commonly chanted while breaking peoples' ribs.

There are many other types of chants to choose from.

[PersonNumber503602]

94. Well since no ribs were broken during that chant, it looks like we're on our to way

to making it less offensive to some. We just need more peaceful USA chants. I think there were some at the Olympics before too. No ribs broken there. So let's keep giving it a positive spin, and soon the fear will fade.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

97. Do you have a link to that news story?

Did you say it happened in Ames, Iowa?

Thanks.

[stone space]

98. It happened to a friend decades ago.

If it was ever in the news, I missed it.

[leftofcool]

9. That was 1980, this is 2016. The GOP has hijacked patriotism, we just rescued it from them.

[Trekologer]

14. For too long we've allowed Republicans to co opt patriotism

They've used it as a wedge issue and to divide America and we haven't pushed back on it at all. Why? Are we really ashamed about being Americans, as the liberal straw man the GOP has been able to create?

I don't know about you, but I'm proud of my country and I see patriotism as wanting to make it better for everyone. Patriotism is making sure that no child in America goes hungry. Patriotism is ensuring that hard working families are able to able to afford to live the American dream. Patriotism is ensuring that young adults are able to get the job training or education that will allow them to earn a living without putting them into debt for life. Patriotism is making quality health care a right and not a privilege. Patriotism is protecting every American's right and ability to vote.

[obamanut2012]

17. I wrote a thread on this in GD2016 -- exactly

[jmg257]

10. A strong show of patriotism...lots of USA signs and flags too last night. Apparently not much

thought given to all the possible negative connotations some might dig up.

Don't be scared - its Hillary!

[jmg257]

38. You did read the OP, right? I was referring to his fear about 1980 USA chants vs last night.

"...whenever I hear such chants, I am filled with fear."

My reply...
"DON'T be scared"

[sufrommich]

42. I'm sorry,I misunderstood you. nt

[jmg257]

44. No worries - cheers! nt

[MoonRiver]

11. Nothing even vaguely similar to that happened at the Democratic Convention.

Remember the Muslim parents, who lost their hero son in Iraq? The chant was to distinguish our feelings of inclusiveness with DimDon's idea that ONLY he can solve the world's problems.

[ismnotwasm]

22. The inclusiveness of the convention

As well as Hillary's acceptance speech was amazing

[PrideofJefferson]

15. I'll say I'm proud to be an American.

To me when I hear the USA chant I think about the fact that we twice elected a black man with a brown name to the White House. If this could happen anywhere else, let me know. We've got our flaws but who doesn't. To me chanting USA means we are about to elect our first female president.

Remember the American people voted in BO twice. An ethnic minority with a name that is more common to someone who lives on the other side of the earth was smoothly transitioned into the most powerful position in our country by our political system. I am damn proud of that as an American.

[leftynyc]

48. Well put

And welcome to DU.

[PrideofJefferson]

50. Thanks!

Lurked for a long time and am glad this community exists.

[mercuryblues]

18. next convention

could you provide a list of chants that you consider appropriate? As a matter of fact, everyone should provide a list of banned words for chants.

I don't care what they chanted. They drowned out the brats who were trying to make it all about them.

I have no problem with the heckling at campaign rallies/speeches and such. But FFS shut the hell up when the 1st woman is being nominated for a presidential run. They shit on my parade, they earned my utter contempt. They couldn't let it go. not for even 1 hour.


Bernie supporters should be pissed that this is how they all will be remembered. It was not a valiant last stance. It came across as petty, sexist and racist. I give not one fuck about their "cause" anymore. There is no defense of their behavior.

[stone space]

20. There are many slogans that have never been shouted while breaking peoples' ribs.

Why not chose from one of those?

could you provide a list of chants that you consider appropriate? As a matter of fact, everyone should provide a list of banned words for chants.

[mercuryblues]

26. I have

an idea. Go ask the thousands that were doing the chanting why they chanted USA. I have no problem with it. Not ashamed of my country. Showing external pride in America is not always a negative. You are coming across that USA should never be chanted, ever. I heard Hillary chants at times so they weren't exclusively chanting USA.

They were chanting to drown out the little pea brains. Do you have a problem with those chants? Or is it just USA?

[hack89]

45. So the people at the convention would have supported your friend being attacked?

because they chanted the same words they must have the same hate, fear, bigotry and anger? Really?

[lapucelle]

54. I was more bothered by the rude disruption of an important message.

There comes a point where people need to realize that it's not all about them.

Had the disrupters not tried to silence someone's voice, there would have been no counter chants.

[sufrommich]

33. I think "we suck as a country" is the chant of choice. God knows that's worked for the

left in the past.

[ismnotwasm]

19. Wow two threads on this.

It must have really, really, really bothered you.

Never fear, the chants were to drown out disrespectful and disruptive assholes. I agree to this extent; I LOVED hearing the chants of Hillary! Hillary! Hillary! Far better--yes I did.

[geek tragedy]

24. Was that while watching Khizr Khan? nt

[procon]

25. Context matters.

The people who were trying to shout down the speakers, disrupt the program and undermine the nomination of the Democratic candidate for president, were not innocents in need of rescuing. They were the unAmerican agitators, they were the equivalent to the ones screaming "Iranians not welcome here", in your analogy. They were in effect saying that Hillary was not welcome there, and no one who supported her would be allowed to be heard. Well, the real patriots spoke up and sided with the veterans, the mothers, the victims, the survivors, the disabled, and everyone else those jerks tried to marginalize with their petty, self serving stunts.

If you want to be afraid, be really afraid that we have ridiculous and ugly people like that in our party who would rather put a man like Trump in the whitehouse than support our Democratic nominee because their precious ideology purity ismore important than the future of our great country! That's enough to make any sane person be afraid.

[spooky3]

36. +1

[stone space]

65. So now folks who oppose war are unAmerican? Is that the whole point of the chant?

They were the unAmerican agitators

To try to paint us as un-American?

Calling folks un-American is ugly as hell. I'm shocked to see it here at DU.

[LongtimeAZDem]

66. You're assuming that the opposition shouts were genuine; some of us doubt their motivation (nt)

[stone space]

67. Do you believe the delegares are UnAmerican?

Why are Democratic delegates being called "un-American" here on DU?

This is getting pretty ugly, pretty fast.

[LongtimeAZDem]

68. No, I don't, but I would point out that your incessant harping on the issue is a large part

of the escalation here. You're the one that decided to equate the "USA" chants with the Iranian situation.

[stone space]

69. Why are Democratic delegates being called "UnAmerican"? (nt)

[LongtimeAZDem]

70. I'm not; why are you equating democratic delegates with the violence of 36 years ago? (nt)

[stone space]

72. See post #25. Democratic delegates are being called "unAmerican". (nt)

[LongtimeAZDem]

74. That doesn't answer my question

Why are you equating democratic delegates with the violence of 1980? Because that is what you did in the OP.

You decided to levy an ugly, veiled insinuation about the "USA" shouts; if people overreacted, that's at least partly on you.

[stone space]

75. They shouted "USA" while they broke her ribs, that's why.

And just this morning, Democratic delegates being called "un-American in post #25.

[LongtimeAZDem]

76. So, anybody who shouts "USA" bears responsibility for that? Seriously?

Absolute nonsense.

[stone space]

78. Why are Democratic delegates being called "unAmerican" here in this thread? (nt)

[LongtimeAZDem]

82. I cannot answer for what others do

You have insinuated that those who shouted "USA" at the Democratic convention last night are somehow like the people who hurt your friend three and a half decades ago.

I won't go as far as to call that un-American, but I find it repulsive.

[stone space]

83. I told a story about what happened to a friend by people shouting "USA!"

And it led to Democratic delegates being called "un-American".

[procon]

81. Wrong time, wrong place, yeah?

Since you've helpfully included yourself in with that lot, maybe you can explain what they expected any of the guest speakers, most of whom weren't even politicians, were supposed to do about changing the government's foreign policies, national security, international treaty obligations or military tactics, while standing on the stage during a media event?

[stone space]

85. Why did you choose this thread to call people "unAmerican"?

It's just a story about what happened to my friend in an elevator.

Why all this ugliness, here?

[procon]

87. No sympathies. None. The context you offered was completely misplaced and off kilter,

and as I explained above, had no relationship whatsoever to the disruptive events on display at the convention.

[LongtimeAZDem]

90. Yep (nt)

[SQUEE]

92. And here comes the pay off.

You got the response you wanted, now time to start an OP on calling Democrats Un-American.

[liberal N proud]

29. You have to understand the context in which things like this happen

Used as hate at was in 1980 is understandably disturbing in your face nationalism
Used at the Olympics to celebrate the athletes, while not bad, is a little selfish.
Used at a political convention to drown out the disruptors, those who are still not over losing the primary, that is not a bad thing but rather a way to deal with those who could not be controlled.

Last night was not a nationalism thing, it was to prevent the disruptors who had been disrupting all week from further disruption.

[progressoid]

60. I think at the Olympics it also seems a little arrogant.

Do other countries do this at the Olympics? I know there is a lot of chanting at soccer events but I don't remember other countries doing it at the olympics.

[liberal N proud]

61. I think all countries show a little national pride at the Olympics

But I agree with you it a little arrogant.

[sarae]

30. I never liked those chants growing up,

because I always felt they were aimed at people like me and my family as a way to point out that we weren't real Americans. Last night, the people chanting "USA! USA!" were people like me and my family. Therein lies the difference.

I feel like it's a rebuttal to those who want to take away our rights as Americans.

[RonniePudding]

31. A much different context

But nice try.

[CanSocDem]

35. Implicit in this chant...

...is the idea that no matter what the issue, "USA" is the answer. Right or wrong.





.

[PersonNumber503602]

95. If Canadians started chanting Canada at one of their political events

would that imply the same thing?

Why would that be the fact in either case? How does a chant mean that?

[apcalc]

40. Understandable you still feel the experience.

Let me just say that intent is everything.

Anything can be used as a force for good, or a force for evil.

Intent is everything.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. The GOP stole OUR flag. We're just taking it back.

[LongtimeAZDem]

55. ^^^^^ (nt)

[treestar]

49. They should not be allowed to hijack the USA

Because unpleasant people chant it, does not mean we can't. That leaves them to claim they are the only ones who love America, and right wingers have claimed that.

[BeyondGeography]

52. Your first thread on this didn't work out the way you wanted

Will there be a third?

[runaway hero]

58. I agree with you

[LongtimeAZDem]

59. So, it's long past time for us to reclaim that chant, don't you think? (nt)

[GulfCoast66]

64. Look at this a different way

We have let the right define us as non-patriotic because too many of us define all patriotism as nationalism, and the often go hand in hand...but not always.

Anyone watching last night saw an amazing show of diversity, love of fellow man, and caring culminating by the nomination of the first female major party candidate.

Juxtaposed on our opponents who now think America sucks and the only way it will get better is to elect their leader. And start oppressing minorities, women, LGBT and others different than them.

And our convention was the patriotic one! It is long past time we show America what true patriotism-love of country and, more importantly, our fellow Americans. All Americans!

[sarisataka]

77. What you should be afraid of:

[Rex]

84. Not everyone is a big fan of Democracy.

There are way too many people that only like it when it fits their agenda, other times not so much.

[REP]

93. I was in college in the '80s

At a university, in the state right next to Iowa. There were a lot of Iranian expats. I remember protests - one included a snow pig - but not a one of them were anti-expat Iranian and not one single Iranian student was harmed. The only negative thing I remember was the joke among the women students that the male expats tended to indroduce themselves by saying, "You are a blonde American! We should get married now."

Come to think of it, my best friend was at Ames at the time. She says she must've been at a different Ames because none of what you're describing sounds familiar at all.

[awoke_in_2003]

96. I've never cared for it...

regardless of who is doing it. It has always seemed, to me, to be a mindless form of self-hypnotism. I also don't really care for American's flag fetish, either. It is one thing to be proud of it, but too many people take it too far.