Happy 90th birthday Fidel

[malaise]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/12/americas/cuba-fidel-castro-at-90-after-assassination-plots/index.html

[msongs]

1. he can visit the graves of all the people he had murdered and make amends nt

[charlyvi]

2. You beat me to it! eom

[edbermac]

3. Let's hope it's his last.

[MFM008]

4. Good men die

Ass holes live forever.

[hack89]

5. Hopefully the last. nt

[First Speaker]

6. I wonder if he's related to Rasputin...

...both were/are impossible to kill...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. Yeah, I'll pass on the cake.

Not the worst tyrant in history, but still a tyrant nonetheless.

[Uponthegears]

8. OOOOOOR

A liberator who freed millions from the "glory" of being ruled by a puppet.of US multinational corporations and then helped his people overcome the unprincipled economic assault of the most powerful nation on earth.

[Grey]

9. Yes, ^^this^^

Thank You.

[malaise]

10. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

They are saints you know -how many times did they try to kill him again??

[bluesbassman]

11. So he took over ruling them himself,

while becoming bondservants of the USSR? The devil, as always, is in the details.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Thank You.

[Uponthegears]

14. "Bondservants"

of the USSR?

Is that little piece of flotsam a red-baiting term for Castro having to turn to Russia for BOTH security and trade when its natural trading partner decided to do everything possible to destroy Cuban economy and assassinate their leader?

Given the enemies he faced and the lengths to which they went, Castro accomplished miracles.

[hack89]

15. Why couldn't those "miracles" include true democracy? Nt

[Uponthegears]

17. "True" democracy

Or democracy contaminated, if not by direct influence by Western dollars, then most certainly contaminated by the hardships created by near-genocidal US policies (yes, if we had imposed those policies on a small country that lacked the vision and the effort of the Cuban people, they would have killed tens of thousands)?

[hack89]

28. How about a multi party system with power routinely changing hands?

Instead of one man ruling for 50 straight years? Is that a bad thing?

[Uponthegears]

29. A couple of things

First, that love of a multi-party system was sorely missing among Castro haters when Batista was in power. Did I say "Batista?" I'm sorry, I meant United Fruit, or any of a handful of international sugar conglomerates.

Second, when capital has a voice (a la Buckley v. Valeo), in developing countries there is only one party. Don't fool yourself.

[hack89]

30. So a one party dictatorship was their only option?

The voice of the people had to be stifled to protect them from evil capitalism? You really believe that?

[Uponthegears]

34. What total spin

No friend, the lack of democratic options was a fact but it was a fact under both Batista and Castro. You, however lie that only at the feet of Castro.

You ignore the identical lack of democracy that not only existed under Batista but was facilitated by the oh so superior US and the US multinationals.

We (capitalism) were as big an enemy of democracy as Castro. The difference was that he eschewed democracy in an effort to help the people and we eschewed democracy in an effort to enrich the elite.

[flamingdem]

35. Well done!

How quickly we forget the WHY behind Castro.

[hack89]

38. So Castro could do no better than Batista?

Not much of a revolution. For the record I think they are equally evil. The difference is that Batista was open about his corruption.

[Uponthegears]

39. Once again

To the extent that Castro failed to institute democratic reforms (and ignoring the improvements he brought to the common people of Cuba), his failure came in spite of US hostility, while Batista's failure came with the US 100% behind him.

To succeed, even if only partially, in the face of constant aggression by the most powerful nation in the world is indeed revolutionary.

[hack89]

40. A regime based on force and the denial of basic freedoms

Is not a partial success. It is a different form of failure.

[clarice]

67. Best post I've read in quite a while. nt

[WillyBrandt]

43. Pure bullshit

Castro has a huge font of goodwill when he took over. He had any number of directions he could have taken Cuba given the disgust with Battista. And yet he chose indefinite dictatorship with him at the helm.

He is an intelligent human being with agency; and his choice was to keep himself at the top permanently. He wasn't forced into that choice. Other options weren't clogged by the mendacity of Americans or Soviets or others.

All the waste of Cuba was his choice; or rather, a byproduct of his choice of permanent power.

[Uponthegears]

44. The "popular" disgust with Batista

The US had no problem with Batista so long as he did the bidding of American global capitalists, just like they had no problem with Pinochet or Armas or Bonilla as they murdered thousands of poor. The second Castro declared himself a Marxist, he became a US target.

Your revisionist view of Castro's options doesn't change history. Your dismissal of his accomplishments while ranting on about a democracy which didn't even exist with our capitalist allies is utter hypocrisy.

[WillyBrandt]

45. His accomplishments you mention

In his 50+ years in power.

Just want to make sure we're on the same page. We're talking about what achieved after he seized power in his thirties and held onto it the next half-century.

Once we're on the same page with time frame and scene, we can go from there.

Thanks

[Uponthegears]

78. Snark does not serve you well friend

But then again, neither would facts.

Cuba's healthcare system is the best in the Caribbean/Central America. Its distribution of wealth, a wealth decimated by 5 decades of US aggression, is near the most egalitarian in the region. Crime is reported (yes I doubt the figures too, but I have walked both the streets of Havana and rural roads without fear) as the lowest in a region plagued by violence.

In addition, its miltary assistance and guidance to revolutionary forces in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and other countries enabled those forces to squeeze at least some human rights from countries which were before ruled by murderous, genocidal, right wing puppets.

[hack89]

51. He is a dictator. That bothers me.

All dictators bother me. Cuba will be a better place when he is rotting in hell.

[AgadorSparticus]

49. Exactly!! Castro is no Che, that's for sure. And he is no different than Bautista

[hack89]

52. Che was a psychopathic murderer.

It says a lot that he was too violent for even Castro.

[clarice]

66. Well done comrade. nt

[JanMichael]

18. Please define "true democracy" if you wish.

I do not find the Monsantos and Exxons and Time Warners and UHC's and BCBS's and Super PACs and Mellon Scaife's and Kochs and Walmarts and <insert monopoly or oligopoly or capitalist controlled family run labor exploiting firm here> very democratic. And I didn't even start naming 100 year old wall street created barons either. Old money abounds and dominates outside and within what we have here.

If true democracy is stronger of the fittest maybe I get it. I am fit, can box/wrestle, am white, a male, still not "old", not grotesque, come from a middle level professional background family, and have a great job...it works for me all of the time, true democracy is an odd concept.

[hack89]

27. A true multi party system with power routinely changing hands

Only dictators and Kings rule for 50 straight years.

[CanSocDem]

61. Right...like you have in the USA. (snicker) n/t

[WillyBrandt]

69. Can you explain that to me?

Including the &quot snicker)". Type slow, because I can't read too fast. Both text and subtext went right over my help.

Consider it an act of charity on your part, enlightening of your lessors.

Thanks much.

[CanSocDem]

81. Only the delusional...

...would suggest that the USA is democratic. "Democratic" means the government promotes public services (services that benefit the 99%). You know, like free healthcare and free university....!!?? The things Bernie Sanders talked about.....You were listening, right?

The "snicker" was actually a subdued guffaw at the general tenor of the thread. So-called democrats, waving the flag and calling for the demise of ONE OF THE TRUE HEROES of the global democratic revolution. It may not occur to you but the USA is/was the major impediment to global democracy.

REAL democrats, like myself, cheered long and loud when Castro and his peoples army removed Batista and NATIONALIZED the corporations that had enslaved the Cuban people for decades. We kept cheering when he repelled the rogue CIA invasion, retooled the education and medical systems so the Cuban people would be healthy and EDUCATED. That, in itself, separates Americans from Cubans.

Want more...???



.

[WillyBrandt]

82. That's not what democratic means

It means government by the people -- by the "demos". Whether that means everything is socialized or private or in-between is a matter for the outcome of democratic deliberation rather than a precursor.

I think the USA is democratic, a flawed democracy, but we really can kick em out and put new ones in.

And in Cuba you have the same old man in power for fifty years. How does that fit into your definition of democracy?

[bluesbassman]

22. Oh please. Castro allowed the USSR unfettered access to his island.

In return they propped up his economy for decades and stifled any hope the Cuban people had for self determination. Only Castro knows what was in his heart, but the Russians had no desire to help the Cuban people, rather their desire was purely to gain strategic advantage in the Cold War.

[Uponthegears]

26. And exactly where was Cuba to turn?

To the US who had propped up Batista as he was terrorizing the poor and trying to assassinate Castro so the same pack of rich pigs could return an re-assume their rolls as masters?

Cuba under Batista had the direct assistance of not just the US government and the Banana Republic puppeteers and STILL imprisoned and murdered thousands of its working people. When Castro did similar things among the (thank you capitalism) smaller group of elites, who, unlike the poor under Batista, were actually trying to kill him, he had to make Cuba function not just without the assistance of his neighbors but in the face of their open disruption.

The Castro haters give FRA about democracy. Batista is the proof.

[WillyBrandt]

46. Castro has been in power for 50 years

I suppose he was forced to stay in power that whole time by the CIA, Miami Exiles, etc. It's quite a burden the capitalists have placed upon the poor man.

[ronnie624]

24. A vastly more realistic view.

Those who vilify, hold their own government's conduct, to a completely different set of standards.

[malaise]

36. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Sometimes I laugh

[madokie]

32. YES

the truth will out

[clarice]

64. Blah...blah...blah.. nt

[Angel Martin]

13. sorry my best wishes don't extend to Fidel

read Khrushchev's letter to him, Oct 30.

http://www.cubanet.org/htdocs/ref/dis/10110201.htm

an eye opener.

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Fuck Castro. nt

[X_Digger]

19. Fuck that old fart. Good bait to see all the closet communists at DU though.

Almost as good a bit of bait as a Venezuela post.

[CanSocDem]

62. Indeed.

Also good to see the pseudo democrats who have no conception of TRUE democracy. Of course they were front and center when Sanders was a candidate but out of respect for the rules of DU, they had to temper their enthusiasm for free markets.

The meme being pushed, presumably, was that the democratic party, despite its corporate sponsorship, was really the peoples party.


.

[WillyBrandt]

75. You're right. 50+ years in power. TRUE democracy. How could we miss it?

I can barely imagine the burden that other people must be for you.

All the dopes on DU see a geriatric who has held unchecked power for 50 years -- such simple logic for simple people. If only they could connect the dots they way they ought be connected, TRUE democracy would be staring them in the face, just 90 miles south of Key West.

It must be such a drag for you, walking around all day, pointing out the obvious.

[NuclearDem]

80. If anyone understands true democracy

it's the asshole that's been in power for 50 years in a single-party state.

Duh.

[rug]

20. Viva, Fidel!

For the disgruntled,

[malaise]

25. Best healthcare in the hemisphere

and by a distance. Cuba has been a good neighbor.

[Coyotl]

73. Imagine how far things may have progressed without the long boycott.

The right wing has always feared the progressives in the world, and they turn fear into the sort of negative conduct that harms everyone, themselves included.

Lots of stupid assholes out there.

[WillyBrandt]

76. As one of the stupid assholes, I apologize.

Fidel Castro, as one of the "progressives in the world" (did I get that right?) has done God's work during his 50+ years in power. Should have seen that earlier.

[MohRokTah]

21. With any luck this will be the last one the piece of shit sees. eom

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. A 90m cigar?

Srsly?

No phallic symbolism there... nope.

[heaven05]

31. A TRUE HERO

Happy Birthday!

[Adrahil]

33. Fuck you Fidel. I hope it's your last. NT

[flamingdem]

37. It's not about Fidel, only, it's about the US domination of

Cuba starting in the 19th Century.

Fidel is a product of that.

Imperfect as the revolution there was - it happened for a reason. The Cubans have too strong of an identity to be absorbed by the USA as happened to Puerto Rico and other countries.

Even when Obama took his historic step he was still about domination of the island. Everything has to been seen through a US centric lens - rather than a more humble recognition of the reasons for the Cuban revolution and the UNTOLD SUFFERING caused by the US embargo against the people of Cuba.

I am ashamed of how our country has treated Cuba. We owe them.

[malaise]

41. Very well said

[flamingdem]

56. ;)

The thread got me goin'!!

[malaise]

57. Unlike Don the Con

I don't take the bait

[WillyBrandt]

47. The Embargo is a travesty and a crime

That should haunt the American conscience. Even worse, it was stupid, accomplishing the opposite of its aim

But Fidel is the one person running the show there for 50 years. Cubans are not just a political football -- they are a people. And they have endured a half-century of sheer wasted time (at best) because of that guy.

He's not a hero, not a symbol of resistance. He's a human being, for one island alas a very important one. He's a stubborn old asshole who has diminished and depleted million of lives

[flamingdem]

55. Don't play into the media obsession with Fidel that hides the culpability of US policy

for the past two centuries.

Manifest Destiny forward has lead to domination of most of the countries in this hemisphere. At least Fidel said no and the US could have worked it out but pride and greed and entitlement won.. sadly Democrats are guilty here as well, it's not just the Republicans who support imperialism.

When you attack Fidel remember at least that Cuban doctors have saved the lives of millions around the planet. Even Obama acknowledged this fact. More than half of Cuban doctors are female and they train US students from impoverished areas. Maybe we could stand to take some lessons too.

[ronnie624]

83. A large majority of the Cuban people supported the revolution.

It's absurd to believe he single-handedly held the entire country prisoner.

[WillyBrandt]

42. May this rotten old shit go to hell

He is ninety years old, and -- whatever operational responsibilities he has given up -- his word is law, as it has been for decades. Think about that: a Communist who has made himself king.

Broad swaths of the Cuban people were excited about him when he appeared: a clean break with corrupt Battista, a chance for a new order with social justice.

And what'd he accomplish? Sucking up to Soviets, and wasting generations of talent. A huge amount of wasted time for millions of people: that's not even counting the never-ending speeches.

The world will be a brighter place when he is no longer in it.

[Coyotl]

74. How very American and Nixonian of you. John Birch would be proud of your beliefs.

I remember the days when people said things like this in the 50s, hell the 80s too with Reagan, back when we were trying to kill progressives everywhere in Latin America.

Jimmy Carter was a bright spot in our despotic murder rampage of liberals.

[WillyBrandt]

77. You think Castro is a progressive?

[tritsofme]

48. Scum.

[AgadorSparticus]

50. F*ck that. Fidel can go to hell with the other fascists.

[Coventina]

53. Meh. I was just in Cuba in June. Fidel is no hero, but he isn't Satan either.

His continued existence doesn't bother me, but I'm not excited about it either.

As a person who ruthlessly squashed any voices of dissent, he will never be a person that I personally admire.

Cuba is poorly run and managed. And not all of their problems can be blamed on the US.

[pault420]

54. Do you know anyone that lived under Fidel's rule to be glorifying him like this?

I do... my brother in law. Maybe you should talk to the million of cubans who fled, or still live in Cuba that are brave enough to speak out against his dictatorship. If you did, I doubt you would be saying happy anything to him.

[Throd]

58. Die you old fuck, and take Mugabe with you.

[GulfCoast66]

59. This again proves

That for some ideologues on the left there is no vice too extreme, repression to harsh nor rights too sacred so long as fighting capitalism is the goal.

And they are all keyboard warriors. Like they would ever grab a rifle and start a revelation or be willing live in an oppressive state like Cuba.

[WillyBrandt]

72. Ideology: a package of dumb ideas that inoculate you

Against common sense and basic humanity.

On second thought, maybe I'm the one short on common sense. I'm arguing with nobodies on the Internet who are wishing Fidel Castro a happy birthday. Let me take the beam out of mine eye

[nolabels]

85. Think of it as a calorie free way of trying to understand the intellect of others

Most likely it will not make any ripples and the accused and the accuser are unlikely to face each other in court anytime soon.

[DemocraticWing]

60. Fidel did many things I disagree with, but because of him Cuba isn't a colony of the USA

I think Communism was merely the trappings of the desire of Cubans for self-determination, and they were punished dearly for opposing the Americans. Castro's rule eventually devolved into a paranoid struggle between himself and any dissent whatsoever, because he felt that any change in the status quo would revert Cuba to the 1950s again. And considering the CIA involvement in Cuba, he was probably right about that on some fronts.

I believe in many years, long after the Castros have left Cuba for good, the Cubans will remember the Cuban Revolution fondly. They just might not have much love for the man himself. Ironically, that would be appropriate according to the ideals of Communism. Fidel was simply another comrade who happened to rule, a free and autonomous Cuba will eventually emerge, and Comrade Fidel will be remembered for his role in making it possible and his stubborn quality to keep it from actualizing fully until he was gone.

[David__77]

63. I have some favorable thoughts about Fidel Castro.

I appreciate his stand in solidarity with African's fighting colonialism and apartheid. I appreciate that he supported the Sandinistas during the 1980s.

[malaise]

68. Cuba has also provided doctors and nurses across the hemisphere

He is the reason there are few public health disasters. Fidel has been a great neighbor.
I genuinely don't give a flying fugg how some folks here feel about him.

What I find amazing and funny is the reality that so many persons managed to ignore the numerous assassination attempts on Fidel's by their own government .

These are the same folks who have so much to say about websites being hacked by Putin and Putin interfering in American politics.

The capacity to laugh is important for survival on this planet. We have so many double standards.

-------------
And yes Cuba's role in the liberation of Southern Africa was simply amazing.

[WillyBrandt]

70. Indeed, malaise! Lots of great accomplishments in his 50+ years in power.

[WillyBrandt]

71. Great neighbor

Indeed. Cleared out the prisons and asylums and sent everyone north.

[Uponthegears]

79. Thank you

[clarice]

65. Really !!!!???? nt

[ericson00]

84. Fuck Castro

that murderous communist anti-American anti-freedom piece of shit. He needs to die already.