Washington parent: Sex education is ‘just the same as raping somebody’

[lookingfortruth]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/14/washington-parent-sex-education-is-just-the-same-as-raping-somebody/

Parents in Washington state — and a few conservative websites — are outraged after an elementary school principal described sex acts during a sexual education class last week.

According to KCPQ, the principal of Onalaska Elementary School was talking to 11- and 12-year-old students about HIV and sexually transmitted diseases when she was asked about oral and anal sex.

The principal’s answer allegedly included verbal descriptions of those sex acts.

Parent Jean Pannkuk recalled to Fox News Radio what her daughter said she was taught: “You take a man’s penis and you put it in your mouth – that’s what the girls do to the boys. … The boys spread the girls legs apart and put their mouths down on the vaginas.”

_______________________________________________________________
REALLY?! I really hate FOX "NEWS" listeners. They really are dumb.

[jmowreader]

1. That class WAS age-inappropriate

OTOH, teaching teenagers about oral sex as a substitute for intercourse could lower the pregnancy and abortion rates.

[longship]

3. Parent sticks fingers in their ears: IS NOT! IS NOT! IS NOT!!!

It is too bad that the principal is likely to lose this battle.

I agree that the principle did the correct thing. But I don't think she'll survive this. Too bad.

[dadchef]

9. OMG, here I go.. I don't agree, at least I can offer another scenario..

I was a single Dad, 5 kids, and now a single grand dad, 1, a preteen, the other a teen.. This is a broad brush approach, judging all kids on the same level. Here is where we get into some trouble, we know that these children have to be taught the facts of life, but some kids are raised with a bit more guidance than others. I didn't allow my young-in's out of my sight, except for their time in school, so I had my kids fed and bathed and ready for bed at 8 o'clock until they were teenagers. I knew they were every night, and who they were with when away from my control, with parents that were as protective as I am..

I know and knew, that my kids were advancing into adulthood at their own speed as I saw it individually. I was very active in their school, and socially, and not exposed to many children that where practicing many inappropriate behaviors.

Am I sure? I'm telling you, you can bet your ass I am.. That was my job as a parent, my only job!

For that principal to answer with such specificity, was wrong, for to her assume that every kid was ready to be spoken to, using the lowest possible denominator. I have been confronted with very similar circumstances, with my kids and some of their friends, and my answer was, they should ask their parent to explain that answer.. She should have said the same, or suggest that they allow her to confer with the adult in their life..

I was not that unusual in our community, except that I was one of the few single dads..

[surrealAmerican]

12. Just because you tell a kid to ask their parent ...

... does not mean the kid will do that. Most won't, which leaves three main possibilities: they either get no answer at all, they ask their friends, or they ask the internet. None of these options is better than having a teacher (or principal) explain in plain language.

[dadchef]

15. This was the parent's option..

You have created a straw man, with far too many assumptions.. "which leaves three main possibilities: they either get no answer at all, they ask their friends, or they ask the internet"

Maybe my assumption is more correct, we have the responsibilities for our kids. How are you to take the opportunity away from me, without prior approval, I wouldn't have believed our principal would have taken such liberties with children so young, so I couldn't be prepared to opt out of that lesson. You could bet your bippie that I would have not have accepted your explanation, which is your right to express, for her to not be prepared for this scenario, if she intended to get so graphic..

Please understand, I'm not unaware of the problems we are confronted with in this failing culture. But, maybe we should expect or start to demand more from our parents, if we want to improve this situation..

When did it become the responsibility of school teachers, and no longer the parent, to guide our offspring with morals that are expected of our society?

That is the only real answer, if there is to be any improvement in the future. Teachers have enough to do to educate kids, without having the added burden of raising our children to conform to life in a community of decent citizens..

[surrealAmerican]

16. This isn't about morals.

It's about giving the children factual information about STDs. The principal was telling the children how these diseases are transmitted, and in doing so answered a completely relevant question from one of the students. She was not advocating the behavior.


There are two other points you might consider:

The child who asked the question was undoubtedly not the only one who needed this information.

The parents WERE given the opportunity to review the curriculum, and opt out if they so chose. Just because a "responsible" parent like you wouldn't have bothered, doesn't mean the principal did anything wrong here.

[dadchef]

18. Other options were available to this educator..

Thats all I'm saying. But I didn't know you were there, thus;

The child who asked the question was undoubtedly not the only one who needed this information.

Can you think of another way to explain this situation, beside SUCKING a penis, and LICKING a vagina.. Give it a bit of thought, I'm sure any adult can transmit this concern without such a graphic description.. jus sayin

[surrealAmerican]

22. From the article:

... "You take a man’s penis and you put it in your mouth" – that’s what the girls do to the boys. … The boys spread the girls legs apart and "put their mouths down on the vaginas.” ...

I don't see any reference to the "sucking" and "licking" that you reference. ... just saying.


How do you expect them to explain oral sex? How would you explain it without reference to mouths and genitals? Would this be something that would make sense to a twelve-year-old? Do you want to add to the child's confusion by using indirect language? (these are rhetorical questions)

[dadchef]

24. Why did she have to explicitly explain ORAL SEX to an 11 year old in the first place?

This is basicly what I told my children when they were old enough to pondered these situations.

Some people do things with their mouths that can be just as dangerous as anything that can make you very, very sick, you shouldn't do anything that can, and probably will, make you sick enough to make you die.. Just don't do anything that pertains to adult sex until you are old enough to understand what these things are, that are bad for you.

If you have any more question, ask your parent or make your question know to your teacher and we will make arrangements to get you the answers..

Do you want to add to the child's confusion by using indirect language?

Here is a not so rhetorical answer.. a....ah... YEAH! I want to keep this filth away for my innocent child for as long as possible, our perverted culture will have at them soon enough..

That is why this stuff is controversial. You have convinced me that you are serious in your opinions, and I do respect that, I would love for you to return the favor..

[Wednesdays]

27. Um, because the 11 year old asked?

And if you don't think 11 year olds aren't capable of handling such info, and that many of them don't know about it already (including many preachers' sons and daughters), I've got a bridge to sell you.

Good Lord, are we still living in the 17th century here?

[uppityperson]

31. If a pre-teen asks "what is oral sex", what do you advise saying? "It's for adults and not appropria

appropriate to talk with now. I'll tell you when you are older"? Or "it is when a person puts their mouth on the other person's genitals (penis, clitoris, etc)"?

If pre-teens hear about it, ask about it, how do you think appropriate to respond?

[Aerows]

33. I think honesty is the way to go

Sticking your head in the sand that kids aren't curious about this sort of thing is nonsense, imho.

[obamanut2012]

36. "If you choose to expose your spawn to smut talk, so be it"

and also:

"Your kids might know this stuff at 11, mine don't, and will not until I decide to let them slip into the abyss"



Sex education is NOT a moral issue, yet you appear to think it is. Sex is not something smutty, yet you appear to think it is. It only becomes "smut talk" when it's not discussed with children, and when they are not educated about this. Children this age are having oral sex. Children educated on sex do not experiment as young as kids who do. Kids educated on oral sex and fondling tend to have sexual intercourse at a much later age.

Sex is not smutty. Sex education is also not smutty. Knowledge is power.

[gkhouston]

48. +1000. We can't expect them to make good decisions with bad information.

I have an 11-year-old, and actually find it easier to field her questions now when she's at the "ewww!" stage than I might if she were lusting after someone. And by answering her questions in a matter-of-fact, factual way now, I'm reinforcing that this is an okay subject for her to discuss with me and that I'm a viable source of information for later.

[obamanut2012]

49. Cosign your entire post!

Especially that kids cannot make good decisions with bad (or no) info, and that they really need to know they can talk to you (or an aunt, or trusted family friend) about it, now or later.

[uppityperson]

30. Oral sex is "filth" and "bad for you"? Please clarify, thank you.

[Aerows]

32. It's not nearly as bad for a person

as having one's head up one's ass, wouldn't you agree?

[obamanut2012]

37. I know, right?

[GObamaGO]

45. If the parents are not willing to give the information

The kids have to get it somewhere.

Better from a teacher than the internet or their peers.

Sex education is not only important for contraception but it truly is a public health issue. Anything that can counter the spread of STIs is a good thing.

[uppityperson]

51. I realized I didn't answer your question so will do so now. I also realize you can

not reply anymore, but if you come back to see if anyone else answered, here you go.

The didn't "explicitly" explain oral sex. Saying "put mouth on penis/vulva" is the simply basic answer. Explicitly would be providing more details, answering in more detail than that simply answer.

I wonder if using the anatomical terms is what bothered you as you indicate that you'd prefer indirect language. There are some who call a penis a cock, whang, weiner, peepee, etc, and the female genitalia vajayjay, private parts, pussy, etc. I have found that using the basic anatomical names may shock someone at first, but it also helps them realize that everyone has them. They aren't something shameful, smutty, to giggle over but similar to elbows, knees, ears, a part of the body. Yes, they can be used in sex, but by themselves? Not smutty, not filthy.

I recall driving somewhere with a carload of small boys in the back, probably around the age in the OP story. They were telling jokes and giggling. I asked, "i want to make sure I got the point of that joke, do you mean "the penis"?" It was dead quiet. I could picture them looking at each other. My kid pipes up "that's what we call it in our house, my mom's a nurse" and they all started talking again.

I've had it out with MrUppity about this also. No, it isn't a "euphemism" but a penis, vulva, clitoris, etc. We have parts, each of us. Under our clothes we are all naked. Nothing filthy about that.

What I see as perverted is idolizing the prepubescent waif look, as sexualizing toothpaste and other such basic boring things. I brush my teeth with toothpaste because it is good for me, not so the boy over there will have sex with me.

rant off. for now

[gkhouston]

52. LOL, can't tell you how many times my kidlet has asked, "What's ____"

and I've responded, "it's a slang term for 'penis' ". One day I got, "do we really need so many names for the same thing?" as a response.

[obamanut2012]

35. Do you have any idea of the spread of oral STDs?

Girls go to their Pediatrician with a weird throat infection, and the Peds doc has to tell the parent their daughter has gonorrhea in her throat.

[obamanut2012]

34. This is a health and safety, as well as an education issue

Sex ed is not a moral issue. SEX is not a moral issue.

Parents have shown many, if not most, of them cannot be trusted to properly educate their children on this subject. This lack of education has dire, sometimes deadly, results.

[appleannie1]

2. When a child asks a question about sex, it should be answered truthfully. That is what

the principal did. If a child is old enough to ask, they are old enough to be told. If not, they will appease their curiosity in some other way and that could be much worse than simply answering the question.

[Meiko]

11. Bull

This was clearly the parents job to deal with this, not the principles.

[Egalitarian Thug]

25. And when the majority of parents fail to provide the information, what?

We should all live with the consequences of ignoramuses passing their ignorance on?

Welcome to Americia.

Oh, and that is principal, not principle.

[obamanut2012]

38. It is teh school's job, and the prinicpal is a class act

She did an excellent job. Sex is not dirty and neither is sex education. She acted as an educator, and what she said will protect some of her students in the future. Props to her.

[uppityperson]

39. In most cases a simple and brief explanation like that satisfies the curiosity enough rather than

approaching it with embarrassment or giggles.
"What is 'oral sex'?"
"it is when someone puts their mouth on another's genitals."
"oh."

Notice there was no value judgement, just a simply brief explanation. Now that kid can go home and ask for more details if they want. Basic explanations are provided by teacher. More by parents.

[Kalidurga]

4. What is really important here is that...

the parents are responsible for their children getting this lesson. If they didn't choose to opt out as they were offered, then it is their fault their child got "raped" by sex ed.

[MsPithy]

5. A separate bedroom for mom and dad is only about 150 years old.

Hmmm. How did children survive before that!

[Rittermeister]

6. Up until about 1800

the majority of people slept (and cooked and ate and lived) in a single-room cabin/hovel/shack. Earlier than that, people shared their houses with livestock, one room being used for the people, the larger adjoining room being for the cows, oxen, etc. I literally cannot imagine how a child could have gotten to five years of age without knowing exactly how baby brother and Lucy the Cow got there.

[pnwmom]

7. Baby brother and Lucy the Cow didn't get there through oral and anal sex.

Just sayin'.

[Rittermeister]

17. There's strong evidence that both were practiced as a form of contraception throughout human history

[pnwmom]

19. In the U.S., Kinsey didn't find strong evidence of that, in that self-selected group

of research subjects who were liberal enough to be willing to talk about sex. In the larger, less liberal population, there was likely a much smaller fraction of people engaging in those practices (which in almost all states carried criminal penalties until the latter part of the 20th century.)

[Rittermeister]

26. As I recall from medieval history course

anal sex was fairly common, along with the widespread coitus interruptus, although I cannot just this moment find a reputable source. And this is during the period of absolute Catholic hegemony. I'm not sure quite what you're trying to argue. Are you saying that anal and oral sex are not common sexual practices among both hetero and homosexuals? Or that adolescents shouldn't be taught about it?

[pnwmom]

29. You said:

"I literally cannot imagine how a child could have gotten to five years of age without knowing exactly how baby brother and Lucy the Cow got there."

I pointed out that baby brother and Lucy the Cow didn't "get there" through oral or anal sex -- which was the topic of the OP.

But as to your question -- oral sex is now common among heterosexual couples, but I've never read anything suggesting that anal sex is. And neither need to be a part of sex ed for 11 and 12 year olds, who are still learning about things like the menstrual cycle, physical development, and basic reproduction.

[sakabatou]

8. WTF?!

[madmom]

10. Well you know it's because she said the dreaded V word!...

http://www.businessinsider.com/michigan-lawmaker-banned-for-saying-the-word-vagina-2012-6?utm_source=alerts

[JoePhilly]

13. Outrage level too high, but principle could have handled this better.

Approach #1: Tell them you won't be discussing those activities during this session, and that the kids should talk to their parents about it. Then stick to the prepared (usually pre-reviewed) agenda.

Approach #2: Rather than jump into a descriptions of the specific acts, you start by turning the question back to the person who asked the question. You do this to get a sense of where they are coming from and what they already know, or don't know. This also provides an increased opportunity for you to get a sense of where the class is on this topic. Its possible that they've already been discussing such things in secret, and might want to draw that out.

In either case, you would also send home a note to the parents to indicate that the topic did come up in a question by one of the students, and so parents should ask their children about it and be prepared for further discussion with their children.

Still, a total freakout isn't necessary.

[Mz Pip]

41. Excellent response

I remember years ago when I was in graduate school getting my MA in counseling so I could be a school counselor we had a class on sex ed. The way we were advised to answer questions like this was to turn it around and then correct any misinformation. Kids may not necessarily want or need a detailed description when a general description will do just fine.

[4th law of robotics]

14. Do any of those kids have cellphones with internet access

because if so they've seen all that and more by this point.

[pnwmom]

20. Seen anal sex? By the age of 11? I think most kids would be disgusted by the thought.

They're still wrapping their minds around the idea of any kind of sex.

[4th law of robotics]

21. If they were curious enough to ask about it

they would have been curious enough to google it.

It's pretty much second nature for anyone born after a certain point to google any random thought that comes to mind.

And when you google "anal sex" the first thing that comes up is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_sex

Which has about all you could ever want to know on it. So I'm guessing if they had heard about it, and were curious, and had an internet phone they had done the search before.

[pnwmom]

23. One kid asked about it. That doesn't mean the rest of them wanted to hear about it. n/t

[Rex]

40. WOW TMI.

nt.

[Nikia]

42. I am guessing that the text said something like

"STDs can be spread through....anal, and oral sex." The student might not have known what that was. If the text or lecture referred to those things and a student had a question about what they were, it was absolutely appropriate for a teacher to answer a student's questions about it. Teachers are supposed to answer student's questions if the student doesn't fully understand the material.
In my junior high and high school, in the 90's, oral sex was common. It was a fairly conservative area and most teens believed that it wasn't as "bad" as sexual intercourse. It did not lead to pregnancy and preserved technical virginity. For some reason, they did not believe that it lead to STDs either. I know of no one who used protection during oral sex. I would say that at least twice as many students were having oral sex than intercourse, especially at younger ages and in earlier and more casual relationships. Although I did not have the misfortune of getting an STD orally, I like many of my classmates was at risk and did seem to know it because teachers were afraid to be explicit and specific.
As far as anal sex, I did not really know of any of my classmates doing it. It was more referred to as something gay boys/men do to each other. I have heard though that it has become more popular among heterosexual and homosexual teenagers. I am guessing that if teachers are not direct about it being something that causes STDs that few teens engaging in it will use protection for that either.

[hunter]

43. My mom was a "Too Much Information" sort when me & my sibs were young.

We knew all about sex before it flooded our brains. This knowledge kept us out of a lot of trouble.

If a kid can think, "Uh-oh, I can see where this is going..." then they can avoid sex if they don't really want to go there, or do it safely if they do.

In my own age group it always seemed to be the clueless kids who got into the most trouble.

[Hippo_Tron]

47. Given pre-teen/teenage psychology, it makes perfect sense

Part of the appeal of sex for them is the cool factor due to it being so forbidden because adults won't tell them about it. What could make it any less cool and forbidden than mom and dad talking about it all the time?

[Curmudgeoness]

44. THIS from someone who probably thought

that invasive ultrasounds mandated prior to abortions were a good idea! Sometimes my brain just explodes.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Realistically, around age 11-12 is when you start talking to kids about these things

As someone in their mid 20's who grew up with the internet, I can tell you that around age 10-11 we were beginning to learn about it regardless of whether or not adults wanted to tell us. By the time you'd entered Middle School, pretty much everyone had heard of these terms from somewhere. I can't imagine that the process has slowed down any now that kids have smartphones these days.

Yes I realize that parents want to let their kids be kids for and shelter them for as long as possible. But really around those pre-teen ages, it becomes pretty much impossible.

[marmar]

50. ........

[mentalsolstice]

53. I was born in 1960 and I had heard the term "blowjob" by the time I was 11y.o.

I remember scratching my head thinking "that's silly, what is the point of blowing on a boy's penis?" Thankfully, it was cleared up for me before I made a total fool out of myself! Accurate information is always a good thing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. Sooo...That's how Mary remained a virgin!