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Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:10 AM

 

You gave me a D?? BANG!

That could never happen, right?

159 replies, 10436 views

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Arrow 159 replies Author Time Post
Reply You gave me a D?? BANG! (Original post)
Photographer Aug 2016 OP
Marengo Aug 2016 #1
DetlefK Aug 2016 #5
pinboy3niner Aug 2016 #14
irishlassie Aug 2016 #46
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #52
etherealtruth Aug 2016 #98
Marengo Aug 2016 #53
jberryhill Aug 2016 #60
Marengo Aug 2016 #65
jmg257 Aug 2016 #68
jberryhill Aug 2016 #69
jmg257 Aug 2016 #71
procon Aug 2016 #85
Marengo Aug 2016 #89
procon Aug 2016 #95
Marengo Aug 2016 #97
procon Aug 2016 #101
Marengo Aug 2016 #107
procon Aug 2016 #112
Marengo Aug 2016 #117
Marengo Aug 2016 #125
procon Aug 2016 #127
Marengo Aug 2016 #128
beevul Aug 2016 #130
procon Aug 2016 #138
jmg257 Aug 2016 #141
procon Aug 2016 #146
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #149
procon Aug 2016 #151
jmg257 Aug 2016 #153
jmg257 Aug 2016 #150
beevul Aug 2016 #152
procon Aug 2016 #154
beevul Aug 2016 #155
procon Aug 2016 #157
beevul Aug 2016 #159
Marengo Aug 2016 #158
Marengo Aug 2016 #96
jberryhill Aug 2016 #59
Marengo Aug 2016 #61
Rex Aug 2016 #114
Marengo Aug 2016 #118
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #135
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #143
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #2
Photographer Aug 2016 #4
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #8
Photographer Aug 2016 #12
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #15
Post removed Aug 2016 #16
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #18
Post removed Aug 2016 #23
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #25
Photographer Aug 2016 #26
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #77
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #28
pintobean Aug 2016 #35
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #47
mythology Aug 2016 #139
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #140
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #144
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #147
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #148
jmg257 Aug 2016 #145
baldguy Aug 2016 #3
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #9
baldguy Aug 2016 #20
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #24
ileus Aug 2016 #33
linuxman Aug 2016 #39
Marengo Aug 2016 #34
baldguy Aug 2016 #103
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #108
baldguy Aug 2016 #122
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #123
Post removed Aug 2016 #124
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #126
beevul Aug 2016 #129
TexasTowelie Aug 2016 #6
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #78
linuxman Aug 2016 #7
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #10
linuxman Aug 2016 #11
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #13
Photographer Aug 2016 #19
baldguy Aug 2016 #21
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #22
Post removed Aug 2016 #29
linuxman Aug 2016 #40
LanternWaste Aug 2016 #58
eppur_se_muova Aug 2016 #70
rurallib Aug 2016 #17
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #30
rurallib Aug 2016 #43
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #50
rurallib Aug 2016 #102
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #105
rurallib Aug 2016 #106
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #111
rurallib Aug 2016 #113
Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #115
jmg257 Aug 2016 #27
Photographer Aug 2016 #31
ileus Aug 2016 #32
Hoyt Aug 2016 #36
Person 2713 Aug 2016 #37
Younemeen Aug 2016 #41
Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #42
Younemeen Aug 2016 #45
cyberswede Aug 2016 #55
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #79
michreject Aug 2016 #38
Waldorf Aug 2016 #44
Hoyt Aug 2016 #49
beevul Aug 2016 #86
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #133
Hoyt Aug 2016 #137
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #142
Adrahil Aug 2016 #51
Hoyt Aug 2016 #56
Waldorf Aug 2016 #63
Hoyt Aug 2016 #73
jmg257 Aug 2016 #74
Hoyt Aug 2016 #75
jmg257 Aug 2016 #76
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #80
jmg257 Aug 2016 #84
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #90
Hoyt Aug 2016 #88
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #92
Marengo Aug 2016 #94
Hoyt Aug 2016 #99
Marengo Aug 2016 #100
Hoyt Aug 2016 #104
Marengo Aug 2016 #109
Hoyt Aug 2016 #116
Marengo Aug 2016 #119
Hoyt Aug 2016 #120
Marengo Aug 2016 #121
Hangingon Aug 2016 #156
beevul Aug 2016 #87
Hoyt Aug 2016 #91
beevul Aug 2016 #93
hack89 Aug 2016 #57
Adrahil Aug 2016 #48
Hekate Aug 2016 #66
neeksgeek Aug 2016 #72
RadiationTherapy Aug 2016 #54
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #81
Hekate Aug 2016 #62
jmg257 Aug 2016 #64
brooklynite Aug 2016 #67
Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #83
Throd Aug 2016 #82
aikoaiko Aug 2016 #110
a la izquierda Aug 2016 #131
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #134
oneshooter Aug 2016 #136
Post removed Aug 2016 #132

Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:14 AM

1. How often has it happened?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:24 AM

5. Well, we never had a global thermonuclear war.

And despite the FACT that there never was one and nobody wants one, people are somehow anxious about the possibiliy that one could be started by a crazy person doing something crazy.

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:40 AM

14. Thank God for Matthew Broderick!






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Response to Marengo (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:08 PM

46. University of Arizona-- 3 Nursing School Professors killed October 29, 2002

On October 29, 2002, a nursing student killed three of his nursing professors because he was failing their courses.

See link from the NYT below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/29/us/student-kills-3-instructors-and-himself-at-u-of-arizona.html

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Response to irishlassie (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:16 PM

52. Was that person a legal

 

Concealed carry permit holder?

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #52)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:00 PM

98. yES . All the news stories indicate he was ...

Flores always carried a handgun under his shirt. He had a concealed weapons permit and was an expert marksman in the military.


http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/2002/11/01/63993-girlfriend-flores-always-had-concealed-weapon/


representative link from an internet search .... all yielded the same answer

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Response to irishlassie (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:18 PM

53. That makes 2 incidents indicated so far in this thread. Did the U of A permit firearms on campus...

 

When this shooting occurred?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #53)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:52 PM

60. No

 


And drunk driving is not permitted on roadways where people are killed by drunk drivers.

However, it is clearly true that permitting drunk driving will increase the number of people killed by drunk drivers.

MOST drunk drivers do not get into accidents, and MOST of them make it where they are going without incident.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:41 PM

65. How many shootings have occurred on campuses that permit firearms, and how many of...

 

The shooters were licensed for concealed carry?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:48 PM

68. Good point. We don't, nor should we, all lose our ability to drive because a few will drive drunk.

And people will get killed because of them .

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #68)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:49 PM

69. No one has said that

 

But there is also no driving permitted on campus sidewalks, nor need driving be permitted everywhere all of the time.

We do test drivers periodically for proficiency.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #69)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:06 PM

71. Agree - AFAIK, no one called for no driving at all. Yes - like no drunk driving,

not allowing people to drive on sidewalks is also usually a good idea...car vs pedestrian often doesn't go too well. Surely there are also laws concerning using your vehicle as a dangerous weapon.

Privileges can only go so far.

Typically drivers are tested when they get their license - I am all for that too!
Some proficiency is always a good thing.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #53)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:42 PM

85. Even one is too many, yeah?

Stop making excuses for bringing a loaded weapon into public spaces. There is no justification. Anyone who is that paranoid that they can't leave home without it should stay there, surrounded by the objects that make them feel safe. Gun bearers are indistinguishable from any killer with a gun and they should not inflict their insecurities on innocent bystanders who also have a right to be safe in public.

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Response to procon (Reply #85)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:50 PM

89. Can you provide a cite or link to where I have made "excuses"?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #89)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:38 PM

95. That's a weak response.

Try harder. We've been hearing these excuses for decades, from the NRA's monumental and horrific paeans to the gun, to the breathless excuses tossed around by those who try to justify guns in public with a collection of straw man, machismo arguments concocted from sheer paranoia. That alone should be enough to disqualified those people from ever owning a weapon. It is apparent to everyone that the current condition cannot stand because a society where armed men can deliberately terrorise other citizens is no longer a civilized society. Thankfully the series of recent appeals court rulings are against gun exhibitionists, and I look forward to seeing public safety restored.

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Response to procon (Reply #95)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:41 PM

97. You made a claim, now back it up. Where, specifically, have I made excuses?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #97)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:24 PM

101. That's terrible.

Does this dodgey old technique actually work for you? It never worked very well for my toddlers. Seriously, is it your excuse then, that guns on campus is based a claim that since a specific category of gun violence seems to happen infrequently, guns are therefore great and restrictions are unnecessary? The logic is completely nonexistent.

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Response to procon (Reply #101)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:59 PM

107. Where have I stated that restrictions are unnecessary. Please provide a citation.

 

You are expending a great deal of effort to avoid providing evidence of what you claim I believe. Why is that.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #107)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:48 PM

112. Why do you think that irrelevant semantics are a valid excuse for gun violence?

You're stuck, yeah?

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Response to procon (Reply #112)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 12:02 AM

117. You are claiming I hold a position that I have not articulated. How can this not be considered...

 

Dishonest? What does that say of of the strength of your argument or your integrity?

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Response to procon (Reply #101)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 03:14 PM

125. I'm still waiting on a cite to where I stated restrictions are unnecessary. Or, do we need to open..

 

A discussion about your integrity?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #125)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 04:34 PM

127. Yes, daddy.

I see that you fancy yourself as quite the authoritarian figure. You've made the same repetitive demands throughout this thread -- did you even notice? -- ordering everyone to comply with your edicts and behaving like a troll. You've bullied a lot of other posters to avoid responding with any substantive reply on the issue of guns on campus. Now you're treading into stalker territory, still at it, hunting for another go round long after anyone else has responded to this thread. Cut you bad, yeah?

Still, petty nuances aside, you're continuing to dodge the topic of this thread and remain focused on salvaging your ego. So, here's the deal, Big Cheese, I'm waiting, too. Can you make a cogent reply here and actually address guns in any public spaces? Since the sight of a stranger with a gun is terrifying to most people, why would you, a purportedly normal person, albeit one with a loaded gun, deliberately do something so insanely provocative? Why are guns even necessary, let alone appropriate, needful, and hardly non-threatening, in a school, or any other public setting?





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Response to procon (Reply #127)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 11:41 PM

128. Please cite where I have stated restrictions are unnecessary, and to where...

 

I have made excuses for carrying loaded weapons into public spaces. No other conversation can occur until either you do so, or acknowledge none such stated positions exist.

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Response to procon (Reply #127)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 03:51 AM

130. I had to read that twice...

 

I had to read that twice to make sure I wasn't misreading it.

You really ARE playing the accusatory authoritarian/'daddy' card, and then immediately after, demanding that that poster justify his/her/others choices to you.

Hipocrisy and irony, live together in perfect harmony...

Since the sight of a stranger with a gun is terrifying to most people...


That hasn't been established, and it can't be, since it isn't factually true.

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Response to beevul (Reply #130)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 12:17 PM

138. I regret that the absurd irony was not as apparent to you as it was to me; my bad!

I look forward to reading your scathing criticism of the actual authoritarian figure I rebuked. On the other hand, perhaps a thoughtful comment on the actual topic of this thread (which is what I keep asking for, yeah?) would be the better course of valor and courage for you.

Look here, now at first blush, I am somewhat puzzled about why, as a group, the pro-gun eccentrics seem to concentrate on repeating ad homs, trivial fault-finding, and flashing their tempers to demand attention to their self serving, irrelevant whims... much like the fellow above, for example. It is exceedingly obvious that most of the substantive discussion is being shouldered by folks that want to see guns out of their public spaces. Since there is no succinct and valid counter argument to be found, and in light on the recent appeals court ruling against guns, I am very encouraged that public safety will be restored.

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Response to procon (Reply #138)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 02:17 PM

141. "I am very encouraged that public safety will be restored." Are you talking Texas campuses, or

public spaces in general?

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #141)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:12 PM

146. What is your reasoning why one public venue should be different from another?

I referenced a case brought to the federal appeals court in San Francisco that challenged a California law that imposed stringent conditions on anyone applying for a concealed-carry permit. The ruling stated that the Second Amendment of the Constitution does not guarantee any right for gun owners to carry concealed weapons in public places.

With this decision the Ninth Circuit joins the Second, Third and Fourth circuits of the US Court of Appeals that have rendered similar rulings, upholding restrictions for concealed carry permits. It doesn't affect Texas, yet, but all these cases are wending toward the U.S. Supreme Court, although it's unlikely to move until the bench is fully manned again.

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Response to procon (Reply #146)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:52 PM

149. As the practice seems to be a safe one (at least in Texas), where's the problem?

 

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

(tl,dr version- 108 Texas CCW license holder were convicted of felonies in 2015)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=198548

Out of a population of 940,877-that's *1* conviction for every 8711 permitees

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/ActLicAndInstr/ActiveLicandInstr2015.pdf

Active License/Certified Instructor Counts
As of December 31, 2015



Active License Holders:
937,419
Certified Instructors:
3,458

These numbers reflect the number of licensed individuals and certified instructors





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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #149)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 05:49 PM

151. Where is the human "safety" component?

It's also safe to drive a car, but there are rules and restrictions that ensure public safety. The courts have a long history of rulings that restrict Constitutional rights, so there is no guarantee that anyone can do as they please. You omit people and give me C&P dry statistics that completely ignore everyone's basic human need to feel safe and not be terrorized in their own communities.

Most Americans don’t own a gun, and they want more gun control because they just want go about their ordinary business with a certain reasonable expectation for peace of mind and public safety in our civilized society. We expect that a visit to the neighborhood Starbucks for our morning latte will not include coming in contact with someone with a gun and being terrified, worried about some stranger's mental state, his motives or intent.


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Response to procon (Reply #151)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 06:28 PM

153. Some people carry/want guns so they can feel safer. Other people don't want

them to have guns so they themselves can feel safe and not terrorized.

Just an observation of why this is always such a difficult conversation.
Everyone's experiences being different. As are the reactions to fear, which is such a powerful motive for all involved.

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Response to procon (Reply #146)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 05:31 PM

150. Generally I don't. I also think that is the same argument many pro-gunners use.

Basically, if you are licensed/permitted to carry in one place, why not 'all'?

I wasn't sure if you were talking restoring safety to campuses in Texas, or had a wider focus.

ETA: Whatever happened with that DC decision from May saying they had to be shall issue? (is that one you referred to?)

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Response to procon (Reply #138)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 06:06 PM

152. I can't criticise scathingly or otherwise, of a figure who isn't what you say...

 

Last edited Sun Aug 28, 2016, 08:34 PM - Edit history (1)

I look forward to reading your scathing criticism of the actual authoritarian figure I rebuked.


I can't criticise scathingly or otherwise, a figure who isn't what you say, to whom you didn't actually do what you say you did.

You're the one on the authoritarian side of this issue, not that poster.

On the other hand, perhaps a thoughtful comment on the actual topic of this thread (which is what I keep asking for, yeah?) would be the better course of valor and courage for you.


I've done so, elsewhere. My comment was about your absurd spin doctoring, and your deliberate mischaracterization of another poster and the position they espouse.

That's not 'trivial fault finding', its calling bullshit on a bullshitter.

It is exceedingly obvious that most of the substantive discussion is being shouldered by folks that want to see guns out of their public spaces.


Chants of 'penis' and 'compensating' and 'gun humper' aren't exactly substantive discussion, and this may come as a surprise and a shock - they're not exactly what anyone would call 'intellectual heavy lifting'.

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Response to beevul (Reply #152)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 08:32 PM

154. Ack... please don't tell me about your penis problems.

Seriously, is that what's upsetting you? I dunno, is it symptomatic, a fear shared by other emotionally high strung, gun owners? Be calm. If you get this riled up over a textual disagreement on public safety, whatever might you do to make your point with a gun at hand? Scary thought, yeah?

All that pent up rage is illustrative of why the public wants more restrictions on guns. Now just look at my state, California, that just implemented 6 new gun control laws... thank you, Gov. Brown!


Requires background checks for people who want to purchase ammunition, licenses for sellers of ammunition and sales data to be collected.

SB880: Expands the definition of “assault weapon.”

AB1511: Limits who a gun owner can lend their firearm to.

SB1446: Prohibits the possession of magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

AB1135: Bans so-called “bullet buttons,” a tool developed by gun manufacturers that allows magazines to easily detach.

AB1695: Makes it a misdemeanor to make a false report to law enforcement that a firearm has been lost or stolen.


http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Gov-Jerry-Brown-signs-six-gun-control-bills-8336745.php




There's also another initiative to tighten California’s gun control laws that has qualified for the November ballot. Its interesting to note that the supporters have banked $4 million to promote the measure, while the pro gun opposition has only been able to raise about $426,000, and California’s Secretary of State reports that they appear to have gone into debt, spending more than the contributions received. There simply is very little backing here for those who want more free ranging guns.



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Response to procon (Reply #154)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 08:41 PM

155. Ack please dont tell me about your control problems.

 

Seriously, is that what's upsetting you? I dunno, is it symptomatic, a fear shared by other emotionally high strung, gun owners? Be calm. If you get this riled up over a textual disagreement on public safety, whatever might you do to make your point with a gun at hand? Scary thought, yeah?


Uhh...wut? Upset? Riled up? ROFL. Im sitting here laughing at you, and if I had a gun in my hand...I'd still be sitting here laughing at you.

All that pent up rage is illustrative of why the public wants more restrictions on guns.


What rage?

You don't have a telepsychology diploma signed by someone named hoyt do you?

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Response to beevul (Reply #155)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 09:05 PM

157. Still can't comment on the topic?

Maybe in between your bouts of hysterical laughter and earnest protestations of denial, you might actually have a thoughtful response to the issues at hand or the current events I've highlighted in support? C'mon, there must be something relevant you want to add here.

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Response to procon (Reply #157)

Mon Aug 29, 2016, 12:49 PM

159. I was just following your lead.

 

You weren't really saying anything about the topic yourself.

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Response to procon (Reply #127)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 11:33 PM

158. You may also cite where I have stated I open carry in a public space.

 

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Response to procon (Reply #85)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:38 PM

96. Well, you've had about an hour. Where's the link or cite I asked for?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:50 PM

59. Prof. William Klug, UCLA

 

Instructor Djamshid (Amir) Asgari, Cal State Northridge

Assistant Professor Robin Rogers, U of Arizona
Assistant Professor Cheryl McGaffic, U of Arizona
Assistant Professor Barbara Monroe, U of Arizona

Prof. David Eshelman, Central Missouri State

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #59)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:19 PM

61. 1987, 1993, & 2002. Anything more recent on campuses that permit firearms, or have for some...

 

Time?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:49 PM

114. Why? The point was made and you just cannot accept the facts.

 

So what would further verification mean to you? Nothing.

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Response to Rex (Reply #114)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 12:05 AM

118. Why not? I like to have as much information as possible before staking out a position...

 

Why would you interpret any more into it?

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Response to Marengo (Reply #118)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:54 AM

135. Only one of those incidents *may* have involved a person with a permit, per a quick...

 

...Google search of the names given.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #135)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 02:46 PM

143. And none of them happened where carrying a gun was legal

 

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:17 AM

2. What will stop it from happening?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:21 AM

4. Well, we could make it more difficult for nutjobs to get their hands on guns...

 

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Response to Photographer (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:31 AM

8. At the expense of seeming cynical I can't help but wonder if the statement

make it more difficult for nutjobs to get their hands on guns


carries the subtext, "Anyone who wants a gun is a nut job."

Killers do not spontaneously emerge. They have histories whether they're spree killers, career criminals, one-time killers or suicides there are red flags. The question is: Why are we overlooking the underlying behavior in favor of restricting an easily replaced tool?

If someone decides to attack a professor over a grade they will do so regardless of any signs posted.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:38 AM

12. Yeah, pretty much.

 

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Response to Photographer (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:43 AM

15. I assume you're referring exclusively to my intepretation of the presumed subtext.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #15)


Response to Post removed (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:52 AM

18. I made several statements in that post. You declined to make a plain reply.

Judging from your OP and temperament I doubt you were agreeing to any other point I raised.

Get a fucking life.

You're current post is rather ironic considering how quickly and the degree to which you became hostile while lamenting in your OP about others going to extremes over reasonable things they disagree with. That sort of quickness to anger would serve as a red flag in many circles.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #18)


Response to Post removed (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:03 AM

25. You seem to feel lots of thing but

self control, civility, and respect for counter arguments do not appear to be among the many things you feel.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:06 AM

26. Yawns.

 

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Response to Photographer (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:55 PM

77. "Yawns." Beyond some fatuous animosity towards people in the ether, sounds like you don't care.

 

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Response to Post removed (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:15 AM

28. I think you should apologize

 

Personal attacks should not be tolerated

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:47 AM

35. too late for that

 

5 and flagged

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Response to pintobean (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:12 PM

47. Indeed so

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #8)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 12:57 PM

139. Because it's the "easily replaced tool" that seems result in so many deaths

 

Yes obviously in theory somebody could drive a truck down a crowded sidewalk as in Nice, or somebody could fill a moving truck with fertilizer and make a bomb like in Oklahoma City.

But for the most part they don't. They use guns. Guns are easy to get, easy to use, easy to conceal. They are a coward's tool.

But go ahead, stick your head in the sand and pretend that access to guns aren't the problem. Go ahead and ignore that more domestic violence homicides have been committed with a gun than any other weapon. Go ahead and ignore that suicides attempted with a gun are vastly more likely to kill than other methods. Those of us who aren't comfortable with ignoring those needless deaths have lives to save. But maybe there is some number at which point you will say it's enough. Apparently it's higher than the 33,169 who died in 2013. Maybe it will be if somebody close to you dies due to a gun. Of course, they are more likely to die from a gun you own than from a stranger with a gun.

Oh and for the record, statistically speaking, while firearm ownership rate has a positive correlation to death via firearm, it has no correlation with the non-firearm homicide rate, making the argument that somebody would just switch to another weapon, frankly stupid. I'm sorry if you don't like evidence, but well, tough.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/01/good_guy_with_a_gun_myth_guns_increase_the_risk_of_homicide_accidents_suicide.html

Guns need to go away. We've proven as a species we can't own them responsibly.

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Response to mythology (Reply #139)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 01:14 PM

140. "We've proven as a species we can't own them responsibly. "

Which is why I refuse to be defenseless in an dangerous world.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #140)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 02:48 PM

144. "Which is why I refuse to be defenseless in an dangerous world." And which is why I...

 

...refuse to allow the state a monopoly on violence.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #144)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:19 PM

147. The usual refrains are --

"It could never happen here and if it did you couldn't stop it and if you tried you'd just be a RWer."

Apparently, to some, in order to be a good Progressive one must be naive, helpless, and cliquish.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #147)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:23 PM

148. There's a one-sentence reply for that: "Donald Trump and his supporters"

 

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Response to mythology (Reply #139)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 03:24 PM

145. A big part of the issue is that they are not going away.

Unless the number of guns is DRASTICALLY reduced, or the relatively few who truly are not going to be responsible can be effectively dealt with, things will go on.

Blame it on the NRA, or the gun culture, or "cowards", or whatever else can be pointed at, but things won't be changing much anytime soon.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:20 AM

3. Just needs to happen once.

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:32 AM

9. Like pit bull maulings?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:54 AM

20. 3 vs 30,000

 

Try again

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Response to baldguy (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:00 AM

24. Just needs to happen once.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:24 AM

33. If it only saves one life...

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Response to ileus (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:26 AM

39. Saw that comin'

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:45 AM

34. LOL! Well, that was easy.

 

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:47 PM

103. Why is it that RWers always try to deflect & distract with non sequiturs

 

when their argument goes south?

Just keep trying to defend those indefensible "Second Amendment Solutions".

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Response to baldguy (Reply #103)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:00 PM

108. "deflect & distract with non sequiturs when their argument goes south?"

You're calling an anarchist a RWer because I applied your standards to your statements.

That is deflecting and distracting with non-sequiturs and name calling because your argument went south.


Just keep trying to defend those indefensible "Second Amendment Solutions".

If guns aren't an acceptable solution then what do you intend to enforce gun control with?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #108)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 12:38 PM

122. Just as bad.

 

Anarchy is where the worst of the extreme Right Wing and the Worst of the extreme Left wing meet, at the opposite end of civilization.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #122)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:12 PM

123. I would offer it's authoritarianism.

The kind that only trusts the self-selecting elite with power, cannot tolerate dissent, and seeks to criminalize independence all the while relying on distortions to push forward what it is too ashamed to admit its goals.

If people cannot be trusted to govern themselves then none can be trusted to govern others and those who demand to govern others are the last to be trusted with the power to do so.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #123)


Response to Post removed (Reply #124)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 04:08 PM

126. Apparently you've abandoned any discussion of facts in order to hide behind labeling me RW

It speaks to the poverty of your position.

You can't even get my gender correct.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #122)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 03:43 AM

129. The extreme left wing and extreme right wing may meet at anarchy, however...

 

The extreme left wing and extreme right wing may meet at anarchy, however, the other end of the scale from anarchy isn't 'civilization', its authoritarianism.

You just call it civilization, which is an admission of sorts.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:24 AM

6. I knew a few people in college that were so obsessed with their GPAs

that there would have been a bang if they got a B.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:03 PM

78. The only grade-obsessed "Bang" I knew of was an offer from a student at U. of Texas...

 

She was in a panic over having missed the first semester exam (I was the T.A.), she said she would do whatever I wanted after class. This blurted out before I could explain the prof's policy was to let the next exam (cumulative) results count for the missed exam. She turned rather red, quietly thanked me and left. Kind of embarassing.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:26 AM

7. Is this thread in reference to something in the news this week?

 

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Response to linuxman (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:35 AM

10. A federal judge declined to grant an motion to allow a university in Texas to prohibit

concealed carry permit holders to carry while on campus.

At least, that is my interpretation of the OP's connection to recent events.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:37 AM

11. Oh. Seems like a silly OP then.

 

I mean, is a student who would shoot a prof. over a grade going to leave it at home and go "Fuck! I wish I were allowed to bring this to class. Then I'd murder that POS!".

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Response to linuxman (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:40 AM

13. While I absolutely agree with your assessment I't think discussion of opposing views is ever silly.

Everything is an opportunity to learn for all parties involved.

So long as discussion is actually occurring.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:53 AM

19. NRA schill, eh?

 

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Response to Photographer (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:55 AM

21. Yep

 

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Response to Photographer (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:59 AM

22. You think advocating for discussion is the mark of a shill?

linuxman called your OP silly and I defended your posting for the sake of discussion and you choose to insult me -- yet again.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #22)


Response to Photographer (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:28 AM

40. You're very uncivil, you know that?

 

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Response to linuxman (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:47 PM

58. No doubt, allowing for only one single possibility is certainly the sign of a disciplined mind

 

No doubt, allowing for only one single possibility is certainly the sign of a disciplined mind lacking any biases...

Silly, indeed.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:50 AM

17. U of Iowa 25 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting

hard to forget that one for us Iowans.

The shooter didn't get a D, but didn't get the recognition he felt he deserved.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:18 AM

30. A couple of questions

 

Did he have a concealed carry permit? Was it legal for him to bring his weapon to the school? If weapons are banned on campus, what would prevent this act from happening!

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #30)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:46 AM

43. far as I know back then guns were banned on campus

so if you are saying there was no "good guy with a gun" you are right. IIRC even campus police didn't have guns back then. Not sure they even do today.

It was an isolated incident by a person who felt wronged.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:15 PM

50. So you are saying it was a person breaking the law

 

And the same can happen. This law is really irrelevant.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:39 PM

102. most laws are irrelevant if there is no enforcement

Few people go the speed limit.
We have a presidential candidate who has made a career out of screwing people over.
Our economy was taken to the brink of extinction by a combination of lawless banksters and an administration that aided them.

So most laws are useless. The major power they have is the fear of punishment IF someone is caught.

Putting guns in the hands of everybody and thus empowering them to be their own enforcement seems like a formula for a whole lot of shooting without much regard to analysis of what is going on and what the consequences are. Life is not like the movies or bad TV shows.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #102)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:54 PM

105. Who wants to put weapons in the hands

 

of everybody?

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #105)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:58 PM

106. damned if I know. I thought that's what you were arguing for.

i sure don't. I have seen enough carnage in my life in a little midwestern town.

Most probably would have been avoided without easy access to guns. Families ripped to shreds, survivors with lifelong injuries.

Just having more people carry guns, legally or not just increases the chances they will be used.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #106)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:41 PM

111. I have NEVER argued or even spoke of that

 

So how did you think I was for that? Honest question.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #30)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:48 PM

113. back in your first couple of responses

I was probably reading something into what you said. Thought you were angling to see a spot where you would show that legalized carry on campus could have prevented that attack at Iowa.

I get overly sensitive about guns. As I said I have had too many friends and acquaintances buried due to guns. Have had several threats due to LTTEs. Used to have a next door neighbor who had guns and an gripe against the city government when I was on council.

So I apologize if I made assumptions. Hope you can accept that apology and we can go forward to beat Trump.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #113)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:55 PM

115. Of course I accept that apology

 

I just get a little tired of people always saying firearms owners want everyone to have access to weapons.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:08 AM

27. Oh it certainly can...some people are nuts...under pressure to get good grades.

Some even killed themselves over things like that.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:18 AM

31. Far to often.

 

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:22 AM

32. You earn D's...the instructor doesn't "give" anything.

What's stopped students from doing this already? Signs?

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 09:06 AM

36. Gunners encouraging young people to arm up. How'd you like folks legally toting in your classrooms,

 

sitting next to your kid, playing cowboy defending poor helpless young women, getting their Man Card validated, . . . . . .








?resize=620%2C524&ssl=1



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Response to Hoyt (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 10:10 AM

37. +1

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:32 AM

41. hahaha

why's the guy in the first photo makes me laugh?

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Response to Younemeen (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:37 AM

42. That's Dylan Roof. He murdered 9 people in a church in Charleston, SC

He was also prohibited from owning a gun due to a felony drug conviction and in SC it is illegal to carry a gun into places of worship.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 12:04 PM

45. FU*K! that's already not funny

didn't know, he looks like a looser with a toy gun... but look what a looser can do...

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:23 PM

55. That last image is gross.

Awful ad. What kind of person needs a gun like that to feel like a man?

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Response to cyberswede (Reply #55)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:12 PM

79. You may want to ask to poster. He seems up on these guys.

 

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:06 AM

38. If that was going to happen

Do you think that a law telling them that they couldn't would stop them?

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 11:55 AM

44. If this is in reference to the decision regarding the Texas Professors, does it really make a

difference before campus carry was allowed? Anybody before could carry a gun illegally and go bang on the D grade. At least now the ones carrying legally are 21, have had a FBI background check and been licensed. Do you think this new decision got rid of the people who carry firearms on campus illegally?

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Response to Waldorf (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:14 PM

49. No need to make it legal and endorse immoral behavior, which is what NRA and other gunners want.

 

Not to mention those that need to boost their self-esteem and are stupid enough to believe a gun will help.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:48 PM

86. Theres nothing immoral about lawfully and peacably carrying a gun. Nothing.

 

Expecting the world to hinge on your biased delicate sensibilities on the other hand...

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #49)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:48 AM

133. That's the philosophy of the notorious right wing reactionary, Robert Bork:

 

"But, in any event, physical danger does not exhaust the categories of harms that society may seek to prevent by legislation, and no activity that society thinks immoral is
victimless. Knowledge that an activity is taking place is a harm to those who find it profoundly immoral."

Robert Bork, The Tempting of America, p. 123

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #133)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 12:11 PM

137. Well "gunz are good" is philosophy of Trump and the white wing yahoos that support him.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #137)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 02:45 PM

142. Disapproval, however strongly felt, is not sufficient reason to ban anything

 

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Response to Waldorf (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:15 PM

51. No. But being LEGAL means more people are likely to do it.

 

And in IMO, adding more guns to the mix is unlikely to improve anything.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #51)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:31 PM

56. EXACTLY! Just what we need, a gun store or two popping up next to pizza joints and clubs near

 

campus.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:38 PM

63. I imagine you would get a lot more trouble from the bars nearby than a gun store or two

opening up nearby.

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Response to Waldorf (Reply #63)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:27 PM

73. Especially if they go from class to the bar with their gun tucked in their pants. Might be illegal,

 

but the law just makes it easier to happen.

Personally, I think campuses are right to fight back. Gun toting ignorance doesn't belong on campus.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #73)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:32 PM

74. Apparently a felony...let's hope they learn that one when they get their permit.

And also figure out a safe plan of what to do with their piece when not carrying it.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #74)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:38 PM

75. How about the grow up, and act like an adult by leaving the friggin things at home.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #75)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:45 PM

76. In Texas?? Not sure "adult" has much to do with it. The adult legislature passed the law after all.

Anyway, maybe not too many will take advantage of the law - any numbers on how many are carrying?

That article showed very little interest in the on-campus gun group.


Its usually no big deal carrying most places, but having to deal with safe storage all the times you aren't - seems it would be very annoying.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:20 PM

80. Heh. McBride's Guns is on the edge of U.T.'s West Campus Neighborhood, down the street

 

at one time from a punk rock club, a queer bar, and a drive-thru beer distributor. And two pizza places. Businesses change, but McBride's is still there. Need to go by and see if they are running a parking lot sale on Rio shotgun shells.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #80)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:36 PM

84. They will be glad of extra gun stores if UBC passes. Added convenience for all the private transfers

would not hurt if such a law is enacted.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #84)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:01 PM

90. Probably would be convenient. But that store's stuff is high.

 

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #80)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:50 PM

88. They look more like a true sportsman store, but customer base still lacks diversity.

 

Don't see a lot of so-called assault weapons, toters, holsters with confederate flags, people slobbering over gun strictly meant for shooting people, etc. Don't see them listing courses on shooting people and supplies for training to do so.




Personally, I would have described the site a bit differently than in your post.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #88)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:05 PM

92. "Personally," I don't remember me describing it at all. Believe me it's a big store...

 

though I think you got hold of a clip at another locale -- gun show, perhaps?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #88)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:28 PM

94. What's the issue with "diversity"?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #94)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:11 PM

99. I believe the vast majority of gunners, gun profiteers, NRA, etc., are white wingers.

 

Hypothesis has been confirmed by darn near every gun store, gun show, gun training session, gun ad, NRA meeting, etc., I've seen.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #99)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:20 PM

100. How often do you go to the range, gun store, or gun show? How many CCW classes have you attended?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #100)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 06:51 PM

104. Ypy are free to post photos, start with a Massad Ayoob graduating class

 

from one of his popular shot to kill the boogeyman courses. Or, post photos of gun show attendees.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #104)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:02 PM

109. Thats not an answer Hoyt. How about some numbers? How many times?

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #109)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 08:21 PM

116. Search under "gun shows." Post first few photos that show the croud. Do same for NRA meeting.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #116)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 12:14 AM

119. How many times have YOU visited a shooting range, gun show, or cow permit class? I want numbers.

 

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Response to Marengo (Reply #119)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:17 AM

120. Many times in my younger years, the gun nut yahoos became disgusting quickly. They were

 

all pretty much paranoid racist, white wing losers. Be glad to see evidence to contrary, but you've yet to provide it, probably because you recognize the truth even if you won't admit it.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #120)

Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:46 AM

121. I'm not the one making any claims, you are. What did you visit many times? How many years...

 

Ago and where?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #88)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 09:00 PM

156. This doesn't look like the McBride's store to me.

This may have been filmed at asportsmen club meeting or at a gun show. McBride's is a nice store with knowledgeable staff. The inventor is pretty expensive.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:49 PM

87. You're slipping. You left out Chuck E Cheeze.

 

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Response to beevul (Reply #87)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:02 PM

91. Glad you noticed. Guess that post won't go into your file.

 

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #91)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 05:09 PM

93. File? Its called a brain.

 

I don't need a 'file', as you've been repeatedly told.

Did you forget? Maybe you need a file, of course you could forget where you put it.

Now reply with a snide comment about me carrying a gun in my pantz, wont you?

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #51)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:39 PM

57. There is plenty of historic precedent. Texas is not the first to allow this on campus

what happened at all the other campuses where concealed carry is legal?

Let gets get the facts on the table.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:14 PM

48. My wife has had a few students who were nuts...

 

Now a nut determined to kill someone is not going to be deterred by a "no guns" rule. But having the gun right there could means a momentary urge becomes a permanent death.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:42 PM

66. +1

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 03:23 PM

72. Exactly.

I'm in my fifth year teaching college. In that time I've had a few students make very poor grades, but only one actual incident where security had to be called to remove the student (who was not armed). He was banned from campus for a year.

It's rare but people do get angry. Making it easier for the angry to do harm is counter to the purpose of schools.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 01:19 PM

54. It is more likely to "improve" grades.

Why even give Cs? They paid their tuition, they are packing guns, give them high grades.

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Response to RadiationTherapy (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:29 PM

81. Strange, with all this grade inflation I thought everyone was bordering on Phi Beta Kappa.

 

Didn't know there was anymore blood. In the turnip.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:29 PM

62. At the local campus of University of California a grad student's thesis was rejected....

Well, not so much rejected as was refused a place in the Library because he insisted on including a personal rant against his committee and entire departmental faculty for perceived slights and injustices. The Librarian said that was not going to be allowed. Take out the rant, and your thesis will be put on the shelves.

The guy went ballistic, but in a legalistic and loud and not literal fashion. It made the newspapers.

Given his state of mind, I think everyone was glad that firearms are not allowed on campus -- not in your car, not in your person, not in your dorm or locker -- unless you are a sworn officer of the law.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:40 PM

64. Its true that some people should just not have (access to) guns...if their state of mind so easily

becomes such that killing for no good reason is a likely outcome.

I think guns will be the least of worries for this guy.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 02:46 PM

67. I cannot give a B- in a Grad class...

...without being prepared to strongly defend the grade to the Student, parents and Administration.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #67)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:34 PM

83. Sounds like a much wider problem than gun laws, howeverwell-meaning, which are easily evaded.

 

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 04:33 PM

82. "I was going to murder you with a gun, but then I remembered they are banned on campus."

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Fri Aug 26, 2016, 07:16 PM

110. Could happen whether it was legal or not to carry on college campuses



But it rarely does.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:07 AM

131. I've had a few students who are seriously...

Unhinged. Do I want them armed? Fuck no.

I don't care what any of the guns' rights folks say.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #131)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 04:50 AM

134. "Do I want them armed? Fuck no." Then arrange for metal detectors where you teach...

 

...as otherwise there's no way to prevent someone from bringing a gun to class.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #131)

Sun Aug 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

136. You do know that in Texas

the minimum age to obtain a LTC is 21.

Or does that matter to you.

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Response to Photographer (Original post)

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