Many of us are not into pissing on graves

[Cyrano]

I believe that people like Phyllis Schlafly, and her life's work, did little to nothing to improve the human condition. Rather, imo, she did everything to make many human beings more miserable.

She's gone. That's it. We are all going to die someday and all we can hope for is that we did just a bit of good to help others in need during our lives. Or, at the very least, we can hope that we didn't contribute to making others' lives more difficult.

Many believe Schlafly caused damage to society. I am one of them. But she's gone. All we can hope for is that the poison she preached goes with her.

[GOLGO 13]

1. I'm pissing on her grave

Figuratively of course.

[yeoman6987]

6. I don't look forward to the day Jane Fonda dies

It's going to be ugly on the conservative side. That's one reason I never bash the conservatives who die.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. It will be ugly regardless of who people on this side disparage.

While I'm not a fan of grave dancing of the newly dead it has nothing to do with how it looks to conservatives.

[Zen Democrat]

61. The conservative movement is dying, while Jane Fonda is doing and looking great!

[Buzz Clik]

22. And you should be ashamed. Literally, of course.

[GOLGO 13]

65. No. Your scold is ineffective. The dancing continues.

[Skittles]

82. you want I should kick your grave-dancing ass, GOLGO 13?

I COULD, YOU KNOW

[LanternWaste]

2. a corpse doesn't care.

Someone dies. We make fun of them, we give them accolades, we ignore them, we prioritize them, we puff them up, we minimize them... all with the precise same consequence: a corpse simply doesn't care one way or the other.

But it does allow the the righteous among us to advertise how righteous they are as they chastise an inconsequential opinion.

[Cyrano]

5. Sorry, but I'm not righteous. And I've pissed on graves in the past

However I've never found it objectionable to piss on people who throw around thoughtless criticims.

[Buzz Clik]

23. It's not the dead who are telling you that such behavior is beneath contempt. It's the living.

And, from a living human, the kind of behavior described in the OP is beneath contempt.

[whatthehey]

41. Why, exactly?

What's the reason beyond the feckless "just because it's not done"?

Does it hurt her, a wealthy pampered person in life who far exceeded a normal lifespan and is now beyond the reach of insult or praise?

Does it hurt her family and friends? Who among them would be stupid enough to go to obscure anonymous internet sites dedicated to her political opponents for solace? You think Chelsea is likely to say "Ooh I must go see what tender condolences I can get from Free Republic" when Bill or Hillary dies?

Does it "lower the tone" applied to someone who said husbands couldn't possibly rape wives and that sexual harrassment was only a problem for women who were not "virtuous"?

Nope to all of the above.

Does it hurt her supporters who troll here? Doubt it, but all to the good if it does. Fuck 'em all.

What it does do is prevent us from being hypocrites and liars in the name of some pusillanimous hangover from Puritan prudery, based like most such "just because" bits of milquetoast ersatz morality on empty superstition.

If we disliked someone during their life, we should have the honesty and integrity to dislike them just after it with equal candor.

[Buzz Clik]

42. If given a detailed explanation, would you care? Would my words budge your behavior in the slightest

No.

Carry on.

Just be careful of whom you judge in the future.

[whatthehey]

56. Actually yes

If you can give reasons. Sound inductive argument that's all. I'm not setting up silly fake goalposts I'll move later like many do here. I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not asking for peer-reviewed empirical proof with t-tests and p values, just basic reasons for why. Please do give them. Just don't give me the usual crap people do when superstitions are questioned. If your reaaons are variations on "it's just not right" then no, don't bother. Because that's not a reason. WHY is it "not right"?

The only thing vaguely approaching a plausible excuse generally offered for insincerity in these cases is to not offend family members (as if offending people were a particular evil that should only be a problem after death. Most of my opinions and yours deeply offend tens of millions of conservatives constantly.) Phyllis had no idea I exist, and judging by her statements would have likely wished I didn't. Her close family don't have an idea now. I had a few conversations with a secondary relative a couple of decades ago, who despised her. They are surely not stupid enough to think anyone who so vigorously espoused an extreme stance on (either side of) controversial issues would be universally mourned, so my consistent attitude will not hurt any feelings already not hurt a million times when she was reviled in life. Would I piss on her grave at the service? No, because a) it would be indecent exposure and b) it would be intrusive on something other people arranged for their private benefit. None of those are concerns about a discussion thread on a discussion board.

Other tacks not to bother with though are appeals to how I would feel if it were me (being dead, nothing at all) or my family (none are public figures likely to draw such comment. My mother was unpopular - and no, nothing like me in this case, she would have agreed entirely with you - and being reminded of it afer her death did not bother me in the slightest. in fact one thing the family all commented on after the funeral was it was good to be able to talk openly at family gatherings without sending the old biddy into a mad huff for once.)

But again if you really can explain real detailed reasons why being candidly consistent in personal opinion post mortem is not right, make it convincing and I will surely stop.

[smirkymonkey]

75. +1000

[JustAnotherGen]

79. Well said n/t

[brer cat]

83. +1 nt

[No Vested Interest]

43. Why? "When they go low, we go high." Michelle Obama, 2016 nt

[whatthehey]

57. a) not in response to comments re. dead b) I'm not campaigning for votes from the credulous masses

What I am asking is why other than "just because" being consistent in an opinion about a person the day before and the day after their death is "low" in the first place. I know a lot of people think so, but a lot of people think a lot of crap based on silly superstitions. There's no more real reason to "not speak ill of the dead" than there is to, well first of all not speak ill of the living, but also not to step on cracks in the pavement or cross the path of a black cat.

[JustAnotherGen]

78. +1

[cwydro]

47. Well said.

[NaturalHigh]

3. +1

[Iggo]

4. "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

She's taking what she made.

No tears from me.

[jodymarie aimee]

28. Iggo, go comment on my Ann Coulter Rob Lowe Roast post

I need a person who speaks the truth.

[jalan48]

7. I kinda liked the Londoners' celebrating Thatcher's death with "Ding dong the wicked witch is dead".

[backscatter712]

10. PHYLLIE PHYLLIE PHILLIE!!! DEAD DEAD DEAD!!! n/t

[whatthehey]

8. I'm not a fan of talking about sports, and not at all into celebrity gossip. So?

Other people are quite happy vhatting endlessly about both. Never bothers me.

[liberal N proud]

11. Hillary should go stand over her grave after the election

Just to fulfill her desire.

[niyad]

12. now that is a lovely idea. and even if she doesn't, somebody can create the image!

[Martin Eden]

13. We should fight against whitewashing the legacy of a person whose life's work was harmful to society

Sometimes that includes what might be labeled "pissing on the grave."

[BlancheSplanchnik]

16. This^

Of course, pukes celebrate the death of progressive luminaries. We need to respond to mud washing as well as fight against whitewashing.

Whatever the lie is, liberals/progressives have an obligation to respond with truth.

[mountain grammy]

48. Yes, exacty!

[Buzz Clik]

24. "Sometimes that includes what might be labeled 'pissing on the grave.'" No, it does not.

Not for civilized people.

[Martin Eden]

45. Honest criticism is not for "civilized people" ?

The clarifying phrase being "what might be labeled."

I agree that hurling obscenities and hatred at the deceased (as some DUers are doing) is offensive & unproductive, and should not be encouraged.

But we shouldn't back down in setting the record straight about the likes of Schlafly when post-mortem praise starts flowing in. Speaking ill of the dead -- honestly and accurately in calm language -- will be labeled "pissing on the grave" by those who want the legacy of a harmful person to be cloaked in honor.

[Buzz Clik]

46. LOL!

Perfect.

[Ilsa]

74. Exactly. Don't let her legacy be an ideal

for others to pursue. No more lies about the hate she spread.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. You need to hang out with some Teamsters.

[fleabiscuit]

15. Well, she wasn't Hitler.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. She was Hitlette

What???? She would have been fine with feminine diminutives!

[mountain grammy]

49. ....

[BlancheSplanchnik]

58. :D

[pintobean]

18. You're taking shots at her from your high horse.

What a ridiculous post.

[tenderfoot]

19. pintobean for the win!

You beat me to it.

[Buzz Clik]

21. "High horse"? No, he's fully grounded and speaking to those groveling in the muck.

What a ridiculous rationalization for bad behavior.

[pintobean]

26. Lol. Sure thing, Buzz

Speaking of bad behavior, how are things going over at the other site?

[Buzz Clik]

29. Conservative Cave? Yeah, the majority of them are guilty of despicable behavior, too.

I'd think you would want to make a clear separation between their behavior and yours. (I'd be wrong)

[pintobean]

34. I've never been a member there. How about you?

I was talking about DU's sister site. But, you know that.

[Buzz Clik]

36. The DI shithole? Same comment.

Nice try, but I don't get sucked into digressions.

I'm done here. You're happy with your behavior. Wallow in it.

[pintobean]

40. You brought the cave up

And now, you've dodged my question about it.
Funny, I'm not the one protecting Schlafly's reputation.

[Buzz Clik]

44. "How about you?" That question? Okay: yes.

I'm not protecting her reputation. Actually, I'm trying to protect yours.

Jeebus effin' Cristo, this conversation is taking a familiar turn. You should be at DI on Racist Weekend. Same entrenched attitudes with the same unenlightened responses.

Done and done.

Yours is the last word.

[pintobean]

54. You're protecting my reputation?

You should be at DI on Racist Weekend. Same entrenched attitudes with the same unenlightened responses.

I don't want your "protection".

And, I haven't said anything about Schlafly. I just pointed out the hypocrisy in the OP.

[tenderfoot]

27. By groveling in the muck on his high horse

[Buzz Clik]

32. It's silly time!

Enjoy yourself. I'm done here.

[tenderfoot]

35. Bye.

Tell everyone at JPR we say "hi!"

[Buzz Clik]

37. Sure. Tell me what JPR is, and the message will be relayed.

[Rex]

31. Oh dear, I agree with PB.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. Me too!

[Buzz Clik]

20. Thank you, Cyrano. The time to confront our adversaries is when they are alive and active.

Running down an opponent after their death is an act of cowardice.

[fleabiscuit]

25. Unless it's Hitler.

[Buzz Clik]

30. Um...

non sequitur much?

[fleabiscuit]

68. The non sequitur has a long history as a literary device.

I have no problems metaphorically pissing on Hitlers grave. If anyone else has no problem with pissing on his grave, then it's just a matter of degrees for everyone else who dies. If I think of the progress she personally helped delay for women's right, and the resultant unnecessary suffering many had, both women and men, then I personally have no issues pissing on her grave. Or Hitlers.

[whatthehey]

59. Doing both is integrity. Changing your tune is hypocrisy.

You think anybody saying she was a vile waste of flesh better gone from this earth wasn't willing to say the same last week?

[Act_of_Reparation]

69. You can stow the sanctimony. No one's buying it.

1) We did confront Schlaffley in life.

2) Schlaffley's passing doesn't alter her footing one iota; she is just as incapable of defending her idiocy in death as she was in life.

3) Consider, perhaps, that while the news media is running neutral puff pieces on this toolbag's "contributions" to the American political discourse, now is the opportune time to remind everyone what an enormous piece of shit Phyllis Schlaffley really was.

4) Perhaps most importantly, there's nothing objectively immoral or unethical about speaking ill of the dead. Keeping silent doesn't make you a better person or put you on higher ground. Rather the opposite, keeping your trap shut while the dishonest and the deluded mourn the passing of vile personalities such as Schlaffley makes you an accomplist to dishonesty and delusion.

[Buzz Clik]

70. My "sanctimony" isn't for sale. I didn't bother to read another word.

This kind of behavior at DU is a loud tradition. It's embarrassing to anyone with the slightest sense of decorum.

[Act_of_Reparation]

71. Of course you didn't.

You just keep re-asserting the same bunkum over and over again, as if speaking ill of the dead objectively lacks decorum. Pro-tip: it doesn't.

[Rex]

33. Thank you for your comments.

[Aristus]

38. The way I see it is, if one doesn't want anyone pissing on his/her grave, literally or

figuratively, one should be the kind of person who doesn't inspire that kind of loathing.

She made her choices. She chose to be an abominable person.

I'm not pissing on her grave. In fact, I wish she had lived long enough to see a strong, smart, motivated career-woman become President.

[leimen]

39. Many of us are not into pissing on graves

and I am one of those, however, that said, she did everything she could to obstruct and derail the ERA and that affects my daughter. I am a mama bear when it comes to my kids. That really makes me angry. My son is gay. She despised that. Anyone who fights my children is an enemy of mine. I shed not one tear for this woman.

[MineralMan]

50. She was an awful person. She's dead.

I do not mourn. Let her followers do whatever they wish. She is dead and will no longer say awful things. That is sufficient for me.

[MADem]

51. "Many believe Schlafly caused damage to society." Those who don't are idiots.

But she's gone. All we can hope for is that the poison she preached goes with her.


No, we can hope for much more than that--we can hope that people will be reminded, as she's put in the ground to molder away, what a vicious and pernicious influence she was on our society. She did more, in her own hate-filled way, to hold back half of our society's members (and she was one of that number) than many members of Daesh manage to do today.

We can hope that people never forget what a monster she was, and we can hold her up as an egregious example of how vicious and dreadful her style of discourse is, how corrosive it is to the American conversation, and we can thank our deity of choice, our lucky stars or our plain good luck that she's not around to continue to pollute the discussion anymore. We can even compare her to Donald Trump, and use her vicious rhetoric as a cautionary example --we don't need MORE of that kind of hate speech, we need LESS of it.

She was an awful human being--there's no parsing that.

[nilesobek]

52. Its against my professional ethics to gravedance.

I cut and sandblast the headstones, pour the concrete bases and vaults. Frequently, I meet with families who want to be there when the headstone is installed, sometimes leaving a momento. I had to learn professional ethics regarding the dead. Would I have liked all those people if I knew them? Hell no.

[saidsimplesimon]

53. K&R

"Speak kindly of the dead."

[dgibby]

55. I, for one, would never

waste my precious bodily fluids on the likes of her. She is beneath my contempt.

[3catwoman3]

60. I won' tpiss on her grave, but...

...neither will I weep by it, nor put flowers on it.

[lunatica]

62. Why? Do people become holy when they die?

[JonathanRackham]

77. Only after the worms hit them.

[GoneOffShore]

63. Sometime it's good to piss on graves and dance and sing shoot off fireworks.

Particularly with those like the abominable Schafly, Reagan, Scalia, et al.

[TheKentuckian]

64. How about laying some fresh fertilizer instead then?

[annabanana]

67. makes the flowers grow!. . . .n/t

[GOLGO 13]

66. Still dancing!

[BigDemVoter]

72. I for one am glad she's dead.

She cannot spew any more of her venom, and the world will be a less toxic place without her.

There is a big difference between "celebrating somebody's death" and simply being glad she's gone for good.

[Ilsa]

73. She and those like her are responsible for the increases in maternal deaths

in texas as they preached hate against Women's clinics, Planned Parenthood, and worked to destroy them.

Fuck her and her followers. I hope her private Hell is her watching babies grow up without mothers and knowing that she helped kill women in their prime.

[JonathanRackham]

76. What's a little character flaw amongst friends?

[nolabels]

81. Sounds like the OP has some unfinished issues

Just let it out, whatever it is, we won't be mad and we might even understand

Many of us are not celebrating her death so much but more to point she was proved wrong and we are all stronger for it.

It's so great that women can free to be whatever they want to be. Some men don't understand how that freedom also affects them.

Not having to be the macho man is what's in it for me. Yea, most every human can do that ugly thing with the mean and nasty but to be putting that on as front is so yesterday.

Can we all just do our own thing without some person telling us we need to be this or that