Is the rise of "safe spaces" bringing back the era of segregation?

[davidn3600]

California State University, Los Angeles, has become the latest college to offer segregated housing for black students to provide them with a 'safe space'.

The public school set up the separate living arrangements after the university's Black Student Union said African Americans on campus were subjected to 'frequent racist attacks', 'racially insensitive remarks' and 'microaggressions'.

The group gave university officials a set of demands, including new accommodation.

'It would provide a cheaper alternative housing solution for Black students. This space would also serve as a safe space for Black CSLA students to congregate, connect, and learn from each other,' a letter to senior staff said.

The university then announced they would be opening the Halisi Scholars Black Living-Learning Community, named after the activist and former professor of Pan African Studies at the school, Dr. C.R.D. Halisi.

Cal State LA joins UConn, UC Davis and Berkeley in offering segregated housing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3776242/Cal-State-LA-latest-university-offer-segregated-housing-black-students-safe-space-campus.html

After years and years and years of fighting against segregation. After SCOTUS victories like the Brown vs. Board of Education.......now you want to go back to segregation? And then call this "progress?"

What's next separate bathrooms and water fountains?

No wonder this is called "Generation Snowflake." It's a perfect fit.

[loyalsister]

1. The fight was against imposed segregation

Self segregation is more about free association. As a white woman who has observed the US becoming more openly racist, I respect the desire of black students to not want to have the presence of people who look like me (and the most vocally racist and threatening elements) imposed on them more than what is natural in day to day interactions.

[davidn3600]

3. If you say so...

I'm sure the white nationalists won't mind if they "self-segregate."

The racists win either way you want to look at it.

[loyalsister]

4. Do you think forcing a black student to live next to a white nationalist is a good idea?

Really?

[FBaggins]

14. What proportion of whites at UCalLA are white nationalists?

?

[loyalsister]

20. I have no idea

I didn't expect the kind of racism I have seen in my city, though. People have gotten more comfortable with either outward expression or denying the threats that come with it, though. I would speculate that it is happening all over the country and that it is not a hardship for white people to give a damn that their presence sometimes feels threatening.

[CrispyQ]

204. Your comment,

People have gotten more comfortable with either outward expression or denying the threats that come with it, though.

I agree completely.

The anything-for-a-profit media has not been good for democracy. We shouldn't have hate radio, much less huge swaths of land where that is all that is available to listen to. That birther shit should have been shot down right away by MSM TV, instead of milking it for ratings. Sarah Palin should have been shamed for the trash she said. And here we are eight years later with the media giving a full on bigot free air time every day. They could have squashed this fucker back in the primaries, but the 16-clown circus show made for profit. There was a DU post a week or so ago, wondering if the media pumped up Don the Con, with a confidence they could always take him down at the last minute. I think they are a lot like the republican party if that's what they think. The repubs thought they could get in bed with the deplorables & keep them under control & now the tea party is showing them how wrong they were.


on edit:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/soledad-obrien-eviscerates-cnn-you-have-normalized-white-supremacy-with-shoddy-trump-reporting/

According to O’Brien, the media had gone through “contortions to make things seem equal all the time” when comparing Trump to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

“If you look at Hillary Clinton’s speech where she basically pointed out that what Donald Trump has done — actually quite well — has normalized white supremacy,” O’Brien explained to CNN host Brian Stelter on Sunday. “I think she made a very good argument, almost like a lawyer. Here is ways in which he has actually worked to normalize conversations that many people find hateful.”

[loyalsister]

207. The audience existed before the media took that turn

They tapped into something that was already bubbling below the surface. We shouldn't forget that conflict driven model is part of entertainment media as well. The GOP nominee, not long ago starred in a show where viewers took delight in seeing someone "get fired." From there, reality TV has pushed conflict among participants.

I think it's possible that the reality TV start is being being promoted partly because he's one of their own. If I'm not mistaken he was one of the first to participate and perpetuate entertainment based on contention. The audience for this particular election existed long before it began.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. I tell ya, it looks like the Chino prison yard these days

Oh wait. It doesn't.

I really, really don't anticipate this will be the most sought after housing for African American students.

[FBaggins]

103. The housing is already full with a waiting list

Given the fact that one of the other demands was to quadruple African American enrollment within two years, as a well as grant scholarships and create a $30 million endowment to reduce their costs... I suspect that it will be "sought after" enough to make this a relevant conversation.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

134. We're talking about 24 apartments here, a sweeping social phenomenon this is not.

[davidn3600]

15. They will have to deal with them at some point in life

Life isn't easy. It's always a struggle. You have to fight what you feel is wrong in this world. Simply backing away and isolating yourself from the bullies won't make them stop bullying you.

Racism won't go away by pretending it doesnt exist. If you have white students in this school being racist, you have to confront that. Otherwise, they will just continue the behavior. Nothing will change.

These kids will go through school being in their safe spaces and then get chewed up when they hit the real world.

[loyalsister]

18. So, do you a groups blacks confronting the KKK would have prevented the lynching of friends?

I think they were pretty relentless and I am sure that that kind of hate is still deeply embedded. Would you be okay with forcing young girls to walk through crowds of aggressive men "they have to deal with violent men at some point in their lives"?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

25. Except that's not happening here.

The list of What-Could-Happen is quite long and there is no defense against it. Perhaps we would do better to focus on what is actually happening rather than frightening ourselves with our own imaginations and then using that to justify segregation.

[loyalsister]

27. So, we should wait until it happens?

And just ignore the fact that a threatening environment interferes with people's learning so that white people will not feel uncomfrortable with their own racist leanings?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. If you're threatened by the mere presence of someone else's skin color

seek professional mental healthcare.

Seriously.

Not a joke. Not snark. Straight-up, honest advice.

We don't punish people or treat them like pre-criminals because of the melanin content of their skin. Yes, that means you have to assume the white person walking towards you on the sidewalk is not a member of the KKK. Yes, that means you cannot take actions against people as being members of the KKK until such time as you have established as a reasonable fact that they are indeed members of the KKK. Just like you cannot convict people of rape, robbery, assault, murder, embezzlement, jaywalking or any other crime absent an actual crime plus proof the accused committed the specific deed.

[loyalsister]

36. We don't punish people or treat them like pre-criminals because of the melanin content of their skin

WOW!!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. You're the one arguing random white people are probably KKK.

[loyalsister]

40. That is not what I argued and you know it

Most white people do perpetuate racism. If not maliciously, with disdain when they deny the experiences that people tell them about. I can totally understand why someone who has accumulated such experiences would not want to have to interact with me. I am not entitled to their attention.
Trying to turn it around to persecution of white people is quite a stretch.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

62. You're not arguing white people are the KKK, you're just arguing white people are racist.

I'm not sure what the distinction is but it obviously makes you feel better about yourself.

[loyalsister]

68. Racism does not require hate

Denial and disdain more mildly represent the system the KKK and enablers without malice want to preserve.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. And what system is it that the KKK and enablers wish to preserve?

[loyalsister]

70. The one in which white people have significant advantages

in education, economic opportunities and well being, health outcomes, judicial outcomes, and all of the others factors that give them an edge.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

74. You mean to keep "those other people" out.

[loyalsister]

75. Nice try

I still don't buy the persecution and limiting of opportunities for white people because someone would dare not want to have us around.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

77. Coming up with elaborate, contorted euphemisms for racist segregation doesn't

change the fact it's still racist segregation. It's still keeping "those other people" out because, well, you know how those people are. They should just be quiet and stop causing so much trouble.

[uponit7771]

152. +1

[TipTok]

140. That's because of conversations like this...

.. Where racism has been watered down to the point of 'I have to be around white people' apparently qualifies.

[bettyellen]

190. These groups are forming because there is a history of racialharassment

The OP says that. Why would you assume they have no legitimate reason? That's odd.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

192. People say lots of things. Considering how carelessly the term "racism" is

applied to people here for no reason except to try and shut down debate, skepticism has become a prerequisite.

[bettyellen]

193. So the black students are exaggerating or outright lying because why?

This is fascinating. You think giving them any sort of accommodation is unfair to white students, who have a history of 500 years of being given first accommodations?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

198. "You think giving them any sort of accommodation is unfair"

See. I was right: People will say the wildest, most ridiculous things, that are untrue.

[bettyellen]

199. What sort of accommodations are you actually okay with? And why were you

Immediately expressing disbelief at these college kids?
You didn't answer either question. Seems like you are playing games.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

203. The rules have to be equally applied to everyone.

That's equality.

If you wanted a new rule I doubt you or anyone else could write a coherent, well defined, and enforceable rule.

If I seem skeptical it's because you and many others have demonstrated skepticism is required.

[bettyellen]

205. That's never been the case in the history of our nation, so your admonition is worthless

As far as your personal insults, not shocked you need to stoop to that. Or to avoid answering my questions.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

206. You feel entitled to call people racist or claim they deny racism but feel insulted when

the disingenuous tactics are pointed out. How telling.

Please share for us how these unequal rules should be written and enforced.

[bettyellen]

208. I did not call anyone a racist. Stop lying about me- that's deplorable.

You ought to be ashamed but I'm guessing you don't have it in you. What bullshit.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

210. Nobody has been called a racist? Then why the demand for safe spaces?

[kwassa]

214. How does a safe space affect your life one little bit?

Has anyone accused you of being a racist? Have you had an overwhelming desire to walk into a house of black students and tell them they are wrong for wanting to live together? Has your freedom of speech been limited in any way?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

215. Segregated lunch counters don't effect me either but I still oppose them.

[Egnever]

45. Do you think all male golf clubs are a good thing?

Same thing. I am quite sure there is a process to resolve untenable room mates.

[loyalsister]

47. Not at all the same

This is more like fraternities and sorrorities where men and women self segregate in their housing. Do you object to that?

[Egnever]

49. Not at all like that

there is no rule keeping people out of the sororities or fraternities. They may self segregate based on choice and I would have zero problem with a black fraternity that chose black members but a designated black only or any group only space is not the same at all.

One leaves the door open the other does not.

[loyalsister]

52. How do you know?

Do you know any women who have pursued residence in frat houses, or vice versa?

[Egnever]

54. How do i know the difference between a rule and self selection?

Seriously?

[loyalsister]

55. How do you know there is not a rule about fraterniy and sorority housing?

.

[OneGrassRoot]

225. I'm really trying here...

I'm reading through all of the "safe space" OPs and threads, trying to see the various perspectives and points being made.

The one point of contention seems to be institutionally imposed rules which include some groups but exclude others.

You are saying self-segregation based on choice is fine.

Is your issue more with authority-mandated safe spaces than the issue of safe spaces themselves? Do you prefer a more hands off approach -- as far as our systems and institutions -- to societal issues such as racism, leaving it up to individuals/groups/communities to deal with it?

[Egnever]

228. Will try to clarify

A lot of people went through a lot of pain to end segregation. What is being asked for in the above case is an attempt to return to it.

Strangely enough from descendants of the same ethnic group that fought hardest to end it in the first place. Almost as if they are trying to undo what was so hard fought in the first place.

I think the fact that this request is made at all shows what a bad job we have done fully integrating some places in our country. I doubt very much these requests would come from kids that went to a fully desegregated school. I would be willing to bet most if not all of the kids asking for this came from all black neighborhoods. As much as I would bet the kids that they are feeling the racism from largely come from all white neighborhoods.

People are working every day still to break down the walls between our different ethnic societies. This request would be working against that in the worst way IMHO. I am of the opinion that the kids making this request are the ones that need desegregation the most. If they can't tolerate living with someone of another race the problem lies with them.

I have no doubt there is still racism in america but you don't solve it by going back to segregation. There should be an avenue for any kid to be moved if they feel threatened by their room mate and repercussions for anyone who threatens their room mate. Setting up special housing is in my mind returning to something that was fought against with blood and tears when I was growing up.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

60. the most openly racist people you're going to encounter at UCLA aren't "white nationalists"

I will just about guarantee they're Chinese.

[Quantess]

178. What!?

As in, what the fuck are you talking about right now?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. It's not self-segregating if others are forcibly kept away.

What happens if a member of an out-group enters the enclave of a group that is segregating?

[Dr. Strange]

19. Well...

What happens if a member of an out-group enters the enclave of a group that is segregating?

Melissa Click will dish out pain upon their privileged ass.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

28. "dish out pain upon their privileged ass."

Up is down.

Black is white.

Chocolate rations have been increased from 6 ounces to four.

Privilege is not being a part of a group that can unilaterally impose segregation.

[bettyellen]

191. Like any student residence, the kids inside can invite friends but if they are troublemakers

The group will complain and visiting privileges revoked. I doubt they will feel the need to be one hundred percent black all the time. Just to maintain an supportive respectful environment. I dint know why it would be bad some kids chose that. I'm all for more choices in education. Traditional campuses are hotbeds of cliquish-ness and I'm not goingto complain about this one when we've been ignoring all the others cliques.

[Lee-Lee]

17. If the university says from a position of power "only certain races can live here" that is imposed

at least to some degree. If the university declares a facility can only be used by black students that segregation is imposed not only on white students, but it also imposes that segregation on Native, Asian, Hispanic and any other racial group.

I have to wonder if a public facility can even legally be segregated in that fashion...

[loyalsister]

34. Fraternities and sorrorities have self segregated housing

Those organizations get various forms of university support as an outlet for recruitment and promotion. I suspect if someone pursued a lawsuit to be able to live there they would have to oblige, but most of us are content to let them coordinate their social existence with each other.
I say the people who have pursued this housing arrangement are the experts on their own lives and don't white people telling them that the perceptions that are making them uncomfortable are invalid and that their solutions are going to set them back.

[Exilednight]

92. False equivalent.. Frats and sororities are a self

Governed body, and on publicly funded universities they are not allowed to judge someone on race and or religion per their charter with the university.

[kcr]

194. But they are allowed to pick who gets to be in the club

not just anyone can join. That's a safe space.

[beevul]

76. So being separatists is ok? N/T

[Enrique]

2. no

as i'm sure you know

[Quantess]

5. No, but it's wonderful for those who get satisfaction from having martyr status.

It's high season for whining, with these "safe-spaces; only so-and-sos-allowed" whether it be "only blacks allowed" *only sexual assault victims allowed" *only LGBT allowed".

I thought the early 2000 era was bad with the emo nonsense. The youngsters have embraced Emo, turned it up to 11, and won't let go.

[loyalsister]

7. Do you think it's unreasonable for students of color to be more worried about racism now

than they were in 2000? People are being openly threatened. Hate groups are on the rise. Racists have come out of the woodwork bigtime since 2008 and minimizing the very real fears people have enables them and anything hateful thing they do. I'm sure people who are acting out their white man's burden are thankful for getting martyr status.

[Quantess]

10. I actually do not know. I would say maybe, yes. What do I know?

Has there been an increase in racism in the past 16 years?
Has there been an increase in hate crimes against LGBT in the past 16 years?
Has there been an increase in sexual assault in the past 16 years?

No, to all three?

[loyalsister]

16. Racism has been revealed and people are more comfortable and accepting of bigotry

I am one of many white people who had no idea how racist white people in this country really are. I don't think that there is more racism but, I know I didn't see it as much. It is clear to me that white people are seeing something blacks have known all along. We have not made near as much progress in race relations as I thought.

When Obama got elected, a lot of white people became more comfortable with their bigotry. They have been enabled by peers who are happy to be out and especially by people who deny reality and minimize the concerns that people of color have.

[Quantess]

22. I will state with confidence that racism, bigotry against LGBT, and sexual assaults

have NOT increased in the past 16 years, although I agree that the election was like turning over rocks and seeing ugly creatures skwaaing at the light of day, and other rotten things.

I have not had the same experiences that you have had regarding racism /discrimination, if you are referring to a difference before or after Obama was elected. I am white also.

[loyalsister]

26. More disturbing that outward malicious bigotry is the way some people deny that it exists

I am working with black friends whose experiences are disbelieved because people in power don't see them on paper. I have been told that denying their experience is as insulting as calling them the N word.

[Quantess]

32. What it says to me is that now, people experiencing racism are more likely to speak up about it,

which is necessary. I think that President Obama has been a very positive factor in opening up conversations about race.

[loyalsister]

51. I have ended a few friendships since 2008

upon the discovery of how racist some are. One wanted someone to take Obama out. Another former friend said BLM is a hate group, and the list goes on. A family member who now feels comfortable using the n word and will no longer see some of his grandkids.
I encounter such people regularly.
I think they feel comfortable because typically if someone doesn't endorse it, they can at least be counted on to deny that there is a racist component. Especially if they know the person.

[uponit7771]

153. "increase" is a strawman, it doesn't have to "increase" just be more accepted and that's bad enough

[JustAnotherGen]

177. The poster might not understand the experience

She lives in Sweden now so might not understand the relentless hostility towards blacks since Obama took office. Those of us who have experienced it have learned just smile, wink, and throw an elbow down the line.

[uponit7771]

183. +1

[Egnever]

48. What the TV shows you is not a true representation of society

I think if you inform your opinions on race based on what the news tells you then yes it is entirely understandable to think racism is growing in america.

If you actually look at polling over time you will find that racism has been shrinking pretty steadily since the 60s

The idea that in 2000 there was less racism I find completely lacking.

What I would absolutely agree with is that people are much more aware of racism in america now than they were in 2000.

[loyalsister]

86. I inform my opinions from sources who live the experience

I very clearly stated that existing racism has been unearthed because people have become more comfortable with their own and defending that of their friends and neighbors. Many of my black friends have told me that they have known it was there all along, but are seeing it expressed more freely. It's as if swaths of white people have been biting their tongues rather than becoming more enlightened. The bigotry mentioned ranges from hateful to dismissive and defensive.

The kid who told his professor that he would not call her Dr. because she could only have achieved what she has via affirmative action is something that really stunned me because I had never even heard of that kind of blatant bigotry being expressed in that context. I did see the dismissiveness when I mentioned it to someone and they responded that the kid was probably just kidding.
I have been told that less obvious expressions have always been a part of the experiences of people of color in higher ed. At what point in this escalation do we finally begin to respect people enough to take them at their word when they talk about the effects it has on them?

It is the confidence people have that their bigotry is something worth sharing without shame that we began to see more of since Obama was elected. It has rippled and escalated and there is now a GOP presidential candidate who believes that he can win with a campaign full of bigoted rhetoric. It is no coincidence that it's the same guy who grabbed onto it and openly, relentlessly pounded that drum since pres. Obama took office.

[TipTok]

141. The plural of anecdote is not data...

[loyalsister]

142. The life experiences of real people

is irrelevant if it hasn't been measured in a large sampling and documented?

[TipTok]

143. It means that stories from some people you know...

... Don't translate into a rise in racism that started in 2008.

[loyalsister]

144. Again it is not a rise in racism

it is an uncovering. And it is real to people who were not experiencing the aggressive and malicious bigotry with this intensity and frequency until Obama was elected. Some have seen it this way before and it is most saddening for them to see us devolve back into it just in time for their grandkids and great grandkids to come of age.

[TipTok]

145. Distinction without a difference...

[loyalsister]

146. The difference is

Between something that feels highly threatening vs a daily annoyance. The difference in impact is extremely important to the people who live it.

[uponit7771]

157. Not in my world, I would rather racism NOT be normalized and stayed suppressed than it

... be nomalizezd and 10s of millions of people voting for it

[uponit7771]

156. 40% of the US electorate is though, why are people acting as if tRumps text book racism doesnt exist

... and there are too many people accepting of it.

[uponit7771]

155. Right on, racism has been normalized again... that's bad enough

[uponit7771]

154. Racism doesn't have to "grow" it just has to be more accepted and after tRump it looks like its...

... normalized again seeing a good portion of the electorate want him as president

[Exilednight]

93. Civil Rights legislation didn't happen because MLK ran to a safe space.

He confronted racism head on. He, along with others like Rosa Parks, went to where they weren't wanted and demanded equal treatment.

[loyalsister]

94. Did you forget that he was murdered during that mission?

These students didn't go to college with the intention of leading a Civil Rights movement. Martin Luther King Jr. did go looking for that fight and he paid dearly for his actions. Should these youth be willing to suck it up and represent just like MLK did?

Black students and their parents have not forgotten. Their grandparents more so. Do people really just want to disregard what these endless police shootings and more aggressive racism on campuses and elsewhere is doing, not only to students, but to families. I have friends who feel very anxious when their adult children are not with them if there is any kind of uprising around race.

I will never fear for my family the way they do and respect their sense of how best to navigate a culture they legitimately perceive to be exceedingly dangerous to black bodies. It mystifies me when the complications of living while black in the US is discarded and demeaned when people just want to find a way to pursue their education in an environment with minimal stress.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

96. Okay, now this is just veering into the absurd and morbid fantasies.

These students are not under threat of physical harm or murder and if they were segregation is not the answer, dealing with the threats is the answer.

What rubbish.

[loyalsister]

104. Wow

Do you not see the existential proximity to how black lives have been and still are treated in the US? It's very fresh to the trailblazers who are STILL burying youth who have been unjustly killed with applause from police and even individuals who swear they aren't racist.
To be black in the US is to be under threat of harm or murder. A 12 yr old was gunned down in cold blood on camera without pause. The callousness of dismissing the very real fears people live with is beyond my comprehension, as I have sat with friends as they have cried about these incidents and what it means to them as parents. As a white person who will never have that fear, I defer to people who live it to interpret their experience and decide what is best for them. It's basic respect.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

106. No UCLA students were responsible for those incidents.

Anti-white segregation won't cure police brutality.

[loyalsister]

107. Never in LA!!!

Yet, the first publicly circulated video of a police beating a black man featured LA cops. CA citizens found them not guilty. More extreme footage is being recorded today all over the country. The idea that LA is the only enlightened area in the US is quite a reach.
Regardless, the unbearable oppression white people face should be the priority.

[TCJ70]

108. You're right. Racist incidents could happen anywhere.

We should probably get separate bathrooms, schools, and other public facilities ready. It may even be a good idea for establishments to refuse serving certain populations to avoid conflict.

[loyalsister]

109. Yeah....

That joke is pretty pathetic given another poster's comparison to women's shelters. It's fortunate that someone is standing up for the doubly oppressed white men. We should really watch out though. They may be in charge someday and pay us all back.

[TCJ70]

113. If you don't see a difference between...

...women in an ACTUAL situation having facilities to help them and students avoiding POTENTIAL situations (Not to suggest that situations don't happen), this isn't a conversation worth continuing. This amounts to pre-judging based on outward characteristics, something that has been decried as a bad thing for decades.

I wonder, how many racist incidents have happened from white people towards black people on campus in the past few years. What are the actual chances of ending up with a racist roommate? Or is this a solution in search of a problem?

[loyalsister]

118. Women in an actual situation

as in actually being beaten in front of you or is it enough that a woman be honestly fearful based on personal experience?

I can name plenty of incidents. The most salient is the one where an individual threatened to shoot every black person he saw on campus. Another incident was when black woman was walking on campus and a guy in a truck with a prominently displayed confederate flag decal slowed down and rolled along side of her as she walked to class. What is enough for people to be believed that their distress is real and valid?

The point is that some people are requesting to not have to roll the dice. Black students know that having someone deny and disregard their account of an upsetting racialized incident as untrue or irrelevant is more likely than malicious acts, but it is no less painful or disturbing.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

111. Which UCLA student did that?

Stop looking for excuses to propagate hate.

[loyalsister]

117. Perspectives and history that fall outside of the white experience matters seem to be intolerable

I don't get why a person would believe that they are so entitled and attached to their disregard of an anxiety rooted in very real historic and daily occurrences that they feel persecuted if they cannot impose themselves on people who would just like to spend their down time in a comfortable environment.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

119. Because racism is not the cure for racism

[Exilednight]

105. Rosa Parks lived until 92, what's your point?

College is a place that gets you ready for the real world. Cimpanies don't have safe spaces for employees to retreat to.

[loyalsister]

125. Did you know that the Freedom Riders wrote wills before they got on the buses

They took their risks deliberately. Referencing MLK here suggests that students should be willing to risk their lives as he did. Or for them to feel like they are doing so should be glory to bask in. People are quite often able to choose the space in which they want to work. And yes there are opportunities to self segregate for people who have offices or even cubicles.

[Exilednight]

133. Is there a group of white supremacists running around UCLA beating

POC?

That's what you're suggesting.

You can't sell segregate at work. I would fire anyone who hid in their office all day because they need a safe space and want to self segregate.

Just as easily as someone picks their job, they can just as easily pick their schools. There are tons of historically black universities which they could attend that can provide them their safe space.

[loyalsister]

135. I am saying that the mood on campuses and across the country is palpably frightening to black people

They have all been the targets of bigotry beginning at young ages, as has happened to their parents, their parents parents, and many of their forebears were killed for challenging racism. It's a heritage that matters. Since it is not mine, I have no standing to oppose the efforts of students to minimize the anxiety and trauma in their daily lives. They are only trying to protect themselves. Yet, some have decided that it is important that white people be able to impose themselves into the worlds of people they don't know rather than help them find some room to reduce the stress that comes with living in a black body.


BTW, FYI..

The class of 2020 had been on DePauw’s campus for 15 days when one of its members was the target of a racial slur.
Last Sunday, the abbreviation “H8” followed by a racial slur was written on the whiteboard of an African American student and all of the names of African American students were torn off their doors on the second floor of Humbert Hall.

http://www.thedepauw.com/news/view.php/1023559/Student-of-color-targeted-with-slur-in-F

White rage and white fragility are influencing all facets of alleged civil society across the US. No campus is exempt from the potential for racially motivated aggressions. Trying to prevent having to deal with more racial tension is a matter of academic opportunity and survival for people of color.
No one is entitled to force people to interact with them, yet there is a claim of persecution if white people can not do exactly that.

[bettyellen]

209. Well said. Thank you.

[kwassa]

213. Excellent post.

[Exilednight]

162. The job of a university is to prepare people for the real world.

In the real world, if you want to be successful, you have to confront your fears head on. If you run and hide to a safe place you're going to fail.

[gollygee]

6. No

Members of oppressed groups face stresses beyond what the rest of us face. Universities can be stressful in the first place, and having someplace to relax and shake off that additional stress caused by racism/homophobia/other oppression helps members of oppressed group do better at school. It isn't the same thing as forced segregation, which I'm sure you know.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. He knows

He knows this:

It isn't the same thing as forced segregation, which I'm sure you know.


I didn't go to University in the 90's to fight.

I went to University to receive a degree which would enable me to obtain a job that would lead to financial success.

Most of these bigots that act the fool aren't going to amount to much anyways. From that stand point alone - why would the black students who may be more focused on their education (no time to act the fool) want to rub shoulders with people who are going to flunk out in a year or two anyways?

I'm taking race out of it - and I went to a small majority white University. It didn't bother me any. I was even a R.A. The students who were the first in their family to go (white kids from the Appalachians, Quebecois), the children of immigrants (Mostly Ireland, Russia and Haiti), black kids from Brooklyn and the Bronx - they had no time for nonsense.

I can't believe that culture of "High Stakes" students no longer exists.

I think some Du'ers should go to this University and fight this fight for the minority students since they have that kind if time on their hands. I give a huge chunk to the UNCF each year so I've already done my part.

[Quantess]

50. I went to a State University to study and learn, not to "receive" a degree.

I put my emphasis on studying and learning, and that is ALL I DID.

[gollygee]

56. The reason people study and learn at a university is to get a degree

You're being pedantic over the word "receive." JAG is talking about earning a degree, not being given one.

[Quantess]

172. No, it isn't "pedantic" at all. Some people really are there to learn.

I have always been a good student, and have always known that I would be a college graduate, since I was a little girl, since I loved reading and learning so much.

Look around, and you can easily spot the non-serious students who are just there to get their passing grade. They just do the minimum to "receive" their degrees.

[gollygee]

175. You made an assumption about JAG based on her use of the word "receive"

I don't think it's fair to assume she did just the minimum.

[JustAnotherGen]

176. Shhhhhh don't tell

Her the black woman in college during the Contract On Black Women in America (1994) graduated Summa Cum Laude.

Her head will explode at the idea of focus, goals, and getting a perfect score on a paper proving the existence of God you wrote over a Philly blunt and three Labatts blacks. What's even better? Practical application in the real world.

I don't get meandering and just fa la laling along in life. What's the point if you don't have something to look forward to?

If you do something - do it well and with purpose.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. Good for you!

I was fortunate to have to grandparents born at the turn of the century - a Morehouse and Spelman grad. Their degrees were a golden ticket. That was always impressed upon us - it's a golden ticket.

It remains so. Black women in particular are charging into university. It's a High school diploma in 1950 for us. You are dead in the water without it.

You are lucky you had that luxury. Here I've thought I was lucky to have parents who could fund an extra semester so I could receive a second bachelors to enhance my job search opportunities. Yet - you were able to afford the experience without consideration as to how you would support yourself.

Where did you co-op and intern? How did networking events work out for you when you didn't have an end goal?

[Warpy]

8. It could have that effect

I'm all for safe spaces at home, including off campus apartments rented by groups. I don't think the poor sensitive souls need safe spaces on campus. I'd rather all of us be right out there telling bigots, misogynists, xenophobes, homophobes, and other people who need a reality check that they are what they are and that they're going to have to learn to deal with everybody on a peer level if they want this to be any sort of a country we'd want to live in. After all, they're going to have to face real life sometime.

College/university should be a place to have all your comfortable assumptions challenged.

[etherealtruth]

9. NO ... not unless racism has been eradicated (thereby eradicating the need/ desire for safe places)

As a white person I would hardly think it within my purview to argue what is good or bad for people of color to do .... people are autonomous beings and capable of deciding what is and is not in their best interest.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

11. How about kicking out people who do 'frequent racist attacks', 'racially insensitive remarks' and...

... 'microaggressions'?

[Lee-Lee]

23. I would hope that was at least as much a priority.

[loyalsister]

35. They are defended on the basis of free speech

.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

72. I've no doubt that's unfortunately true on some campuses.

I'm lucky to have worked for years at a more enlightened institution.

[uponit7771]

158. In some colleges there would be no one to teach including deans like at MU and some teachers

... at schools before colleges who give PoC harsher punishments.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. no.

[trof]

24. This may piss off a lot of people, but...

I recently read a thought provoking article about "tribalism&quot ?).
It posited that homo sapiens prefer to and naturally associate with similar people.
Those who look and think and behave like they do.
Those who share the same culture and customs.
DNA?
Whatever.

I think there's some validity there.
What say the rest of you?

[loyalsister]

30. It's not DNA related

However, people affiliate around what they have in common and that is often based in personal history. In this case people who are collectively oppressed and attacked want to be with each other. I think they know what is best for them.

[Quantess]

42. I have raised a small flock of chickens

I do have experience with this phenomenon. The birds of a feather flock together, it is true!

The barrred rocks threw their weight around. (B/W striped)
With the white leghorns, there seemed to be a few bullies and the rest were victims of bullying by the larger chickens.
I have had a variation of chickens, but there was always a hierarchy. It's not what you might expect.

[get the red out]

160. That probably served a purpose

Back in caveman days, I can see where preserving the community would help a group survive. Human's have a higher intellectual capability of overcoming ancient behaviors that now threaten the very large and diverse communities in which we live.

I can see why minority students would seek "safe spaces", I just wish that our society would have grown up enough by now that they wouldn't feel this need.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I think the bullshit about snowflakes is tired, frankly.

Millennials are the most progressive generation this country has ever seen, and it is DIRECTLY thanks to them that we have seen such rapid social change in areas like LGBT marriage equality and ending the drug war/marijuana legalization.

Despite that, they catch a truckton of shit, some of it perhaps deserved but a lot of it bull.

You want to ask who the people are, generationally, most invested in things like banning the sports illustrated swimsuit issue and throwing down censorship on the internet because they don't like nekkid bodies --- or stopping pot legalization--- by and large it is older folks, particularly boomers who have swung back from their youth to hypocritical morals panic and culture-in-crisis conservatism.

My own generation is hardly exempt from being full of shit, at times, even though we're the funniest and most underappreciated, sigh.

But that said, enough already, with the snowflakes and whatnot. We had plenty of threads about the housing question, and the end sort of result was, yeah, it's kind of fucked up but people will choose who they want to live with. Personally, I think college should be a time for new experiences, broadening horizons and challenging ones' own biases and stereotypes, and willfully self-selecting any group where you know the results ahead of time kind of defeats that purpose.

But what do I know, I got put in the dorms with a death metal roommate because the numbskull doing the room assignments thought that's what "Grateful Dead" meant. It worked out about as well as you might think.

[NuclearDem]

37. Well, yes and no.

A big reason my generation is considered so open on certain issues is the work the previous couple of generations did. Gay liberation made coming out more socially acceptable, and when people we considered our friends or even members of our families came out, we had become so familiar with the concept of gay people that it just didn't bother us any. A lot of us growing up had black and Hispanic kids in our classrooms and we didn't really care about their skin color; we either liked them because we liked who they were or we didn't.

That's separate from our generation being coddled. The self-esteem movement really took off when I was in elementary school, teaching everyone how special and unique they were. When Columbine happened, everyone in the school systems ended up getting extraordinarily protective and sheltering, to the point of lunacy in some cases. Fortunately, my high school generally let us say or do whatever we wanted as long as we didn't break the law and didn't make learning too difficult.

So, yeah, two different issues coming from two different places.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. I think it's good that schools like the U of C are making a firm committment to free inquiry

and open expression.

But honestly, there are a bajillion different ways to fuck up a kid, or a generation. I've been reading a lot of stuff about WWII lately and specifically how the brutal sorts of education philosophies in Imperial Japan and late 19th/early 20th century Germany produced a generation of (speaking broadly) empathically deficient psychopaths.

There was a lot of shit, when I was growing up, about "suck it up" and if you were getting your ass kicked on a daily basis by a bully or five, well, what were YOU doing to set them off?

Viewed in the context of how shit used to be, I'm not so sure "teaching everyone how special and unique they are" is really such a bad thing. It's certainly better than teaching them "shut up, eat the shit that is served to you, and if someone is giving you a hard time it's clearly your own fault"

[NuclearDem]

41. I think there's a balance between giving kids confidence

and letting them develop, and we over-corrected to the former. When people call us the "bubble wrap" generation, that really has to do with how the schools tried to protect us from everything; if you got into a stupid argument during recess, the teachers watching the kids would come break it up, somebody called you an idiot, they got detention. A lot of those things may not be pleasant, but they are things that we have to deal with in the real world eventually. The problem is the schools trained us to be reliant on the authority figures to settle our problems for us and protect us from anything we didn't like, and that really emotionally stunted us as a generation.

There has to be a balance. Obviously, schools shouldn't tolerate kids beating the crap out of each other, but letting them experience some small forms of conflict and inconvenience can build character.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. I can tell you that the character building aspect of getting cold cocked in a school bathroom

and knocked literally seeing-stars unconscious for no other reason than Moe and Biff thought it 'would be funny'... is highly overrated.

Seriously, I know a bunch of Millennials, and they've turned out fine. I mean they're no more or less fucked up than my generation is. Maybe not as fine an appreciation of snark and sarcastic, dark humor.

[raging moderate]

58. A lot of those Baby Boomer regressives were like that in youth.

You should have seen them. Ties and pant creases, and nylons and pantigirdles. Hair clipped for boys or ratted and piled into hair helmets for girls. Outspokenly critical of anybody who challenged white supremacy. Already a neurotic force guarding a "Western civilization" whose multicultural roots they clearly did not (and still do not) understand. Angry that anybody should question the right of white soldiers or police to massacre any brown population that stepped out of line. Oh, wait. You have seen them. I only mean they were the same then except they had smooth skin and no gray hairs.

[Kingofalldems]

43. The Daily Mail is a right wing propaganda publication.

The questions is, why do you bring it here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

[m-lekktor]

57. I have wondered this same thing since the first day I started reading DU.

No matter how many times this is pointed out, particularly by people from the UK, people here still use it as a legitimate source.

[romanic]

44. I wouldn't say it's bringing on an "era" of segregation.

I mean I don't think the safe space bullshit is going to cause bars, restaurants and water fountains to revert back to a whites and colored only section.

BUT, all of this safe space bullshit is going to do is give rise to more racial tensions, bigotry, fear, and a generation of people of all stripes who do not know how to mingle with others who are different from them or differentiate between those that oppress them and those that just exist around them.

[The2ndWheel]

46. Special accommodations, and it has to be cheaper?

That's some decent privilege there.

[NCTraveler]

53. You seriously just compared young POC to snowflakes...

Because they might not want to bunk with racist piece of shit?

[Bettie]

61. Every white student at that university

is a "racist piece of shit"? Wow. Guess we should stop letting those white kids into universities.

[NCTraveler]

63. There is something I didn't even come close to saying.

Well done.

[Bettie]

65. You said that the students

require separate housing because they don't want to bunk with, as you so eloquently put it "a racist POS".

So, if there is a necessity for separate housing, there must be a very high chance that any white roommate would be said "RPOS", or it wouldn't be an issue.

Roommates often don't get along and universities find ways to switch spaces for a variety of reasons. I'd guess "my roommate is a racist" would get you swapped fairly quickly.

[NCTraveler]

66. Your original comment on my words was completely false.

This isn't much better. You don't need to incorrectly speak for me. Thanks.

61. "Every white student at that university
is a "racist piece of shit"?"

I never came close to saying that.

[Bettie]

67. Well, please do share how often students receive

roommates that are racists pieces of shit. After all, you seem confident that it happens often enough to warrant separate residences for African American students.

A percentage would be good. 90% of white students are pieces of shit? 80%?

[NCTraveler]

71. I'm actually just fine...

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 05:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Allowing you to dishonestly argue why it's acceptable to call POC not wanting the possibility of bunking with a racist piece of shit, "snowflakes".

[Bettie]

73. I did not personally call anyone a snowflake

I simply wondered why the belief is that any roommate who is not AA is automatically a racist piece of shit, requiring separate residence halls for AA students.

Should there be separate classes as well? A session of each class offered by the university for each racial or ethnic grouping?

How far should this go? Should all universities offer separate housing for AA, Asian...name a group, I'm sure there will be a request for special housing if it has been offered to another, so yes to separate housing for each group?

Universities are expensive enough as it is and underfunded. What will be removed by offering such accommodation for everyone?

Once it happens for one group, they'll have to do it for all groups who make such a request.

[NCTraveler]

81. I didn't say you did.

73. "I did not personally call anyone a snowflake"

[Nuclear Unicorn]

97. There is a general ban on a group is students based solely on skin color

you offered "racist POS" as a justification for that policy.

Please take a moment to explain how that does not characterize all those banned as being racist POSs.

[NCTraveler]

99. I don't get your post.

I know from my time at DU that you are a solid writer so this is on me.

I see no way anyone with any critical thinking skills can make my comment to be absolute in any way. My comment was actually very mild. I do find it interesting that two people, you being one, have stood up for my correct attack on calling POC snowflakes. That is all I said. To think there aren't racist pieces of shit on college campuses is to be willfully blind.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

100. No one is denying there are racists. What we're saying is there is no justification for segregation.

It's not racist white students being banned from the housing, it's all white students, period; without exception or regard to them as individuals.

If a particular person was being banned for a incident involving racism (or anything sufficiently disruptive) the policy would not be resisted. But that's not what is happening here. The policy is literally skin deep in its motivations.

With that considered, that is why your post drew my inquiry. Unless all whites are racists POSs there is no justification for banning all whites. Perhaps that is not how you intended your post to appear but it does appear that way.

[NCTraveler]

110. Poor little white snowflakes.

I side with the oppressed. I have zero problem giving POC the opportunity to bunk with someone other than a racist piece of shit. The status quo guarantees that a POC very well might be bunking with a racist piece of shit and they have no opportunity currently to avoid that going in. I have no interest in catering to oppressors. I spent a lot of time on college campuses. I am well aware of how prevalent racism is. I don't play the reverse racism game. Nor do I play the game that this is somehow similar to the segregation of old.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

112. I side with the innocent.

If the oppressed choose to become oppressors their only complaint is someone else beat them to the punch.

[mothra1orbit]

59. This policy is an insult

to every courageous black student who braved racist abuse to be able to attend previously all-white schools.

1954 is the year I was in second grade, and it's the year my elementary school was desegregated. Harold Washington was the only black face in a sea of white, and he threw up on the first day of school. How brave his parents were to put their kid in that situation--it was the right thing to do. Harold was not mistreated at my school; he did not have many friends, and I'm sure he was miserable a lot of the time, but it was the right thing to do. He received a much better education than he was getting at the all-black school (which was located miles away from his home), and we white kids learned that a black kid was just like us in the ways that matter.

People aren't going to learn to live together until they start living together.

[gollygee]

64. It isn't OK that people have had to brave racist abuse

And it isn't OK to expect current and future students to brave it just because earlier students did. Hopefully things get better.

University is a stressful place for a lot of people. If one group of people has a large amount of extra stress, that is going to affect their concentration levels and grades. That isn't fair.

[romanic]

79. I still want to hear

how safe spaces improve race relations. I haven't read one response from those in favor of safe spaces and black kids sticking to themselves will help stop racism or bridge gaps between different races.

Or maybe those in favor don't want or care about any of that, hmm...

[gollygee]

82. Two things

Safe spaces are for students who suffer from oppression, so there are safe spaces provided for reasons other than racism. LGBT students often have safe spaces available.

But the bigger point is that the real purpose of them isn't to stop racism or other oppression. It's to make a better learning environment for students who suffer from oppression. It's hard to be away from home for the first time in a university, and the class work can be hard as well. To have to deal with oppression on top of that creates an extra layer of stress that can make school more difficult for those students. The safe spaces are supposed to help them manage the stress of oppression, and therefore help them do better in school.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. Define "suffer oppression"

[Jeffersons Ghost]

84. From the Nuclear Capitol of the World, I can respond to "suffer oppression."

Here, it consists of Trump threatening to build a Wall around New Mexico, because with large numbers of Hispanics, Native Americans, blacks and other minorities failing to fall for Trump hate rhetoric, he turned us into a joke! We should have built a wall around our state to keep Trump and his violent bully brigade out, before the Trump rally, where Albuquerque Police Department showed "amazing restraint," after being pelted with rocks, by a group that moved into position, after most protestors had voluntarily dispersed. Who hired this mob of thugs to make headlines by attacking police? Which police department was ready for these thugs? Why didn't a group of citizens that wore orange vests and held hands to separate police from protestors get worldwide attention? Apparently, Trump was angry because his small mob failed to create the police racist headlines, bullshit that he planned.

For a state that receives billions on Federal funding each year, to move and store deadly nuclear waste, created from building enough weapons to destroy the planet hundreds of times over, New is unusually impoverished. How many times (and ways) do humans need to create to destroy the Earth. Why did Martinez stop the Federal government from reintroducing a small pack of wolves into our state? Her administration is more than happy to recommend or disperse funding to "clean up" nuclear material to friendly corporations, which provide contributions to Republicans running for office.

Most of all, why didn't this Opening Post receive more recommendations?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

91. Trump campaigning is grounds for anti-white segregation?

Anti-white segregation is the cure to Trumpism?

whatever

[The2ndWheel]

89. Who is oppressing them at college?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

98. Apparently when some people see a white person walking towards them on the street

they feel the need to cross to the other side.

[kwassa]

120. The college, as a white institution, is oppressing them.

Since you asked.

ever heard of institutional racism? Whites are often unconscious of the way an institution is structured to favor them. A white college might be a very alien and uncomfortable environment for a person of color, depending on the environment they grew up in.

[NuclearDem]

122. "depending on the environment they grew up in."

This is the case for everyone who goes to a new place that's different than what they're used to. A home-schooled white kid would have the same difficulty adjusting to a public university environment.

[kwassa]

123. You missed the institutional racism part.

Race is a whole extra factor on top of the others.

[NuclearDem]

130. What institutional racism?

There's only thing I can think of involving universities and race, and it sure doesn't negatively affect black people.

[kwassa]

136. White privilege. Think about it.

The experiences of black people and white people in this country are often extremely different. In colleges, too.

Here is a very good article on the subject. Please read it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/01/balancing-academia-racism/424887/

“Weathering the cumulative effects of living in a society characterized by white dominance and privilege produces a kind of physical and mental wear-and-tear that contributes to a host of psychological and physical ailments,” explains Ebony McGee, an assistant professor of diversity and urban schooling at Vanderbilt and co-author of a recent study on black students and mental health, in a post on the university’s research blog. The study, whose analysis is based on critical race theory, explores how racism affects the ability of high-achieving black students to have healthy mental attitudes toward their work and college experiences. “We have documented alarming occurrences of anxiety, stress, depression and thoughts of suicide, as well as a host of physical ailments like hair loss, diabetes and heart disease,” she writes.

McGee and her co-author David Stovall, an associate professor of African American studies and educational policy at University of Illinois at Chicago, discuss how the discourse around the academic survival of black students and their experiences on predominantly white campuses often fails to analyze the effects of societal racism on their mental health. “We have grown accustomed to talking about grit, perseverance, and mental toughness without properly acknowledging the multiple forms of suffering [black students] have confronted (and still confront) as part of that story,” write the researchers, neither of whom are mental-health professionals. Colleges rely on all the positive aspects of grit to define the “college experience” by paying attention only to its static definition: courage, resolve, the innate ability to bounce back from obstacles. But history, the researchers argue, has shown that the types of institutional biases that are at play in the U.S. education system are structured to devalue the work of students of color, which can’t be fixed with an extra dose of mental toughness:

While it is debatable whether pushing oneself to the limit to outwork the next person is an admirable quality, we have witnessed black students work themselves to the point of extreme illness in attempting to escape the constant threat (treadmill) of perceived intellectual inferiority. However, what grit researchers do not adequately examine is the role that race plays in producing anxiety, trauma, and general unpleasantness in students of color engaging in high-pressure academic work. The psychological and emotional energy required to manage stress in academic and social contexts as well as systemic and everyday racism can be overwhelming and taxing.

[The2ndWheel]

126. And they've chosen to go there because...?

Because there is no alternative to the white institution, and they have to a degree from a white institution, in order to get an institutionally white job, so that they can pay white taxes, to support the greater white institution? In the end, black people can never win(as there is no alternative), and white people can never win(as they can't escape history).

Doesn't sound like this particular college is oppressing them either, since it gave it to their demand. Seemingly without a fight.

[kwassa]

137. Because they need to get a college education.

Because degrees from historically black institutions can be less valued.

I think you don't know a great deal about this subject of racism in colleges, from the type of statements you are making.

Or the history of racism in this country.

Here is a good article on the subject. Please read it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/01/balancing-academia-racism/424887/

[jonno99]

128. "Whites are often unconscious of the way an institution is structured to favor them." So the

solution is to:
1) deprive the white student the opportunity to learn from the POC
2) deprive the POC an opportunity to learn from the white student

IOW - "institutions" are merely people. How will segregation help change people, if by definition they don't get to learn from one another?

[kwassa]

138. No, you misunderstand.

There will be much opportunity for each to encounter the other in every classroom they are in, and in many other social situations on campus. This type of specialized residence has been around forever; it existed on the college campus I grew up on fifty years ago.

[romanic]

129. Ok then.

So what will happen when these students graduate from college and are no longer in thier safe spaces free from oppression and all the evils of life and reality?

You cannot learn how to deal with racism and bigotry and general disagreements and difference of opinion nor can you grow as an individual in a "safe space". Don't you understand that?

[gollygee]

132. They can work on that separate from working on their degree

The issue in a university is that oppression creates an extra layer of stress that makes it more difficult for students to do well in school than students not dealing with that extra stress. They aren't trying to solve every problem in the world, just that one - get the kids graduated.

[romanic]

147. How if they are so insulated in "safe spaces"?

-_-

[gollygee]

167. The same way people who aren't in school do it

Everywhere else in their lives. But they shouldn't have this additional difficulty that makes it harder for them to excel at school than people who don't have these kinds of stresses.

[romanic]

171. You clearly don't get it. :/

[OneGrassRoot]

227. Seems like "safe spaces" and "triggers" are being conflated here.

While I do wish there were no marginalized groups and thus no need for safe spaces, racism and bigotry exist, in our institutions and in individuals.

This discussion about safe spaces is about creating a physical space -- in this case housing -- that are designated as safe spaces. They're not saying the entire university is a safe, segregated space. Classrooms aren't segregated. Cafeterias aren't segregated. Libraries aren't segregated, etc.

The concern about one aspect of a student's life being safe is being morphed into the incorrect idea that they're enveloped in a safety bubble 24/7. No, that's not happening.

Our homes should be a sanctuary -- a sanctuary from all types of shit. For people who are part of marginalized groups, most especially people of color (something one can't hide as we can sexual orientation, religion, etc) -- I don't understand why anyone is begrudging the creation of a sanctuary.

Bullies are, physically, everywhere. There's a spectrum of bullying and it comes in all forms. Our homes should be a safe space to escape that. Many people feel embattled in the "real" world, be it school or work or wherever. Yes, civil rights leaders engaged and fought the good fight, but they had a home and church and likely other places that were a sanctuary from the battle.

People need to be able to breathe.

It doesn't mean anyone escapes it in the rest of their lives.

(Hell, unless you avoid going online and on social media when at home, even then your sanctuary is invaded. But going on social media is a choice.)

And if the concern by those who decry these safe spaces is that it's a slippery slope, well that goes against the common argument I'm seeing by said people who feel that no one should need to feel protected unless they're actually being attacked. The potential for attack isn't a good enough reason for a safe space.

Slippery slopes go both ways.

[TipTok]

149. A degree is worthless if you don't have the ability to deal with stress...

... conflict and difference of opinion.

[gollygee]

166. Again, they are dealing with the same stress as everyone else PLUS an additional layer of stress.

So they are just as prepared for stress as everyone else, but they aren't having that extra layer of stress cause them to have more trouble in school than everyone else.

[TipTok]

169. No they aren't...

I went across country for college from a western small town in the desert.

If I had just stuck to folks only like me I would have missed out on some real challenges and opportunities. These aren't people you pass on the street or who sit in class with you. They are folks, wildly different than you in many ways, in close 24 hour a day proximity.

What's next? Segregated classes? Work groups? Graduation?

Some folks need to get over themselves and start learning to act like an adult. Unfortunately they are being fed this eternal victim garbage by the people who should be showing them resilience and responsibility instead.

[gollygee]

170. Yes they are

Dealing with everything other students deal with plus racism and/or homophobia means dealing with an extra layer of stress. And it causes them to have more trouble at school. When they're at school, they need to focus on their studies, not solving racism and homophobia. It isn't fair to place that extra burden on them.

[Behind the Aegis]

115. A few things.

Has anyone ever stated "safe spaces" are designed to "improve race relations"? If not, then this would seemingly be a 'strawman argument'. The stated goal of many, if not most, safe spaces it to provide a safe, uninhibited arena for minority persons in which the said minority can learn about their culture without feeling dominated by a majority culture.

I have no idea what the goals and objectives of this particular space is, but as someone who presided over a similar space, I will tell you what ours was like: It was for anyone with African-American heritage who was interested in building leadership qualities, learning about the African-American culture, and coping techniques for AA folk in a bigoted/racist world. There were exceptions for race if the person was majoring/minoring in AA studies. There was a 2 year residency limit. Residents had to attend at least two presentations on the floor a month (floor meetings did not count). The staff was trained specifically for the floor and were expected to present no less than four programs a month (excluding floor meetings). The presentations were open to the floor, but other building residents were allowed to attend.

The idea was the students would be exposed in a "home" (read, safe) environment to issues surrounding AA folk and their experiences. Many students set up their own "weekly roundtables". Leadership programs were specifically focused on the AA experience in the workplace and how to navigate such arenas with the added issue of being black. So it is not about (self-) segregation being used as a weapon, but rather about personal enhancement.

It is important to understand not all, or even most, African-American students were even interested, but we did have a number who were. The program was designed to enhance the experience of the AA student, not deny or discriminate against non-AA students. It was similar to many "international floors" in which Americans were not allowed to be residents, with a few exceptions for those studying English As a Second Language or specific languages.

Not all safe spaces are "created equally", so to speak, but they do serve a purpose. The ones in which I am familiar were offices, some classrooms, and a few residence hall spaces. Now, to be clear about the classroom ones, this didn't mean they weren't going to be offended, but it did mean overly bigoted discussions/ideas were not going to be permissible, but usually it meant who ever the professor was that person was "safe" to express one's concerns about issues the minority student may be facing and serve as a resource for the student.

[kwassa]

121. Thank you for an informed response on the subject ....

and detailed, too.

[LanternWaste]

85. No doubt, many people believe Women's Shelter's are discriminatory as well

No doubt, many people believe Women's Shelter's are discriminatory as well. It's a shame that far too many dullards lack a sense of nuance, and pretend that a foolish consistency is indicative of cleverness.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

88. Mostly, males who abuse women find women's shelters discriminatory w/ image...

[ripcord]

87. I only have one question

As a public university will they be allowed to apply this rule to one race only?

[Odin2005]

90. LOL, the DAILY MAIL?

[FBaggins]

95. The OP isn't an opinion piece.

It's perfectly ok to question the source IF you have some reason to believe that the reporting isn't factual.

You don't - because it is.

[Odin2005]

161. It's a right-wing story pushing the right-wing hysteria over "safe spaces".

This whole notion that colleges are awash "easily offended political correct ideologies demanding safe spaces" is right-wing propaganda.

[Loki Liesmith]

101. No. It's just stupid and weak.

[bigwillq]

102. Safe spaces

What a joke.

Our society is so soft.

[Behind the Aegis]

116. Why do you think it is a joke?

I worked on creating safe spaces at my universities for the LGBT. It simply meant the designated space was free from judgement and was a resource, as anyone designating his/her office had to attend training specifically geared toward GLBT issues. In places which had LGBT halls, those spaces had very specific and demanding requirements, they weren't some flop house for those who felt their feelings were hurt, as some here are trying to insinuate.

If you feel society is "soft", then you might want to reconsider safe spaces, at least some of them, as they also provide those minorities with coping skills and ways to navigate a usually unfriendly world toward specific groups.

[Humanist_Activist]

231. "Our society is so soft." You know what? Good, we want our kids to be soft...

and for every generation ahead of us to be a little softer, less violent, less bigoted, and we want such attitudes to spread around the world. Its a sign of progress.

Seriously, kids used to work in factories and mines, watch people get drawn and quartered, hung or beheaded in public squares, suffer beatings with no repercussions for their abusers, as I child, I was expected to suffer bullying from peers to "toughen me up", etc.

[Albertoo]

114. Madness. Recreating segregation for fear of micro aggressions??

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[kwassa]

124. You are raising a bogus issue. Not surprised.

Your posts opposing multiculturalism are well-noted, as well.

Safe spaces are voluntary, no one is forced, unlike segregation. They are an enlightened response to historical discrimination, and only exist in limited forms in limited areas.

Separate voluntary housing for black students and other groups goes back a long way.

I grew up in Oberlin. It was the first college in the country to admit blacks and women, in the 1830s, and they were among the first students there. There was a house for black students back when I was in high school there in the late '60s. I am sure it is still there. My wife had the option of living in one when she was in a different college in the late 70s, but chose not to do so.

Housing like this is not even news, really.

[Binkie The Clown]

127. So if a restaurant in the south wants to make a safe space for white people who feel threatened

by the presence of black people, that's OK then? As long as white people can "optionally" patronize that restaurant?

[kwassa]

139. The same false comparison that goes on throughout these threads.

A small local safe space within a larger community that is completely open is hardly a threat to free speech or reduces in any significant way the contact between the races. It merely exists as a support for those from historically marginalized populations, of which white heterosexual people are not one, by the way. It is often challenging those from minority communities to both navigate the new world of higher education and the social standards of their everyday world controlled by white people that don't have their immediate interests at hand.

[mwrguy]

226. The entire world is a safe space for white people

[Binkie The Clown]

229. I once got a flat tire in a black neighborhood.

My spare was also flat, so I rolled it three blocks to a gas station to have it patched. The gas station owner, a black man, freaked out and told me it was not safe for a white man to walk the streets in that neighborhood after dark. He fixed the tire and escorted me back to my car and helped me put it back on the car. He left me with a piece of advice: If you ever get a flat tire in this neighborhood again, drive on your flat till you get to a white neighborhood before getting out of your car.

I hope one day it will be safe both for a black man to walk the streets of a white neighborhood, and for a white man to walk the streets of a black neighborhood. Or better yet, that neighborhoods are no longer divided up as white and black. I don't think that will happen however, because "white culture" and "black culture" both object strenuously to being "contaminated" by the other. From both sides you hear either "N**-lover" or "Uncle Tom". Neither side wants a blended culture. So tell me how that's ever going to happen?

[DemocraticWing]

131. Let's see, what's the real bad thing here?

A) The climate at many universities that subject marginalized students to discrimination, alienation, and often violence. I saw on the news the other day that a student at one school had their car vandalized with the n-word. I remember being an out gay college student (less than 5 years ago) and knowing people who were sexually harassed, threatened, and on a couple cases physically harmed by homophobes. This climate is stressful, research has shown that marginalized students face poor outcomes without an ability to process and understand how to live in such an environment. Marginalized students are more likely to drop out, use drugs or alcohol, or commit suicides.

OR

B) Campus resources that help students cope with adversity at their universities. Programs, staff, and locations designed to help accommodate those who may feel out of place with the majority culture. These resources allow students from marginalized groups to meet people like themselves who have experience dealing with these problems and FIGHTING BACK. It also links them with students from privileged groups, regardless of the incorrect implication that it forcibly keeps people separate from one another. It organizes minority students and allows them to have a collective voice on campus to resist all of the conservatives that everybody here claims to detest. These resources encourage free expression and an exchange of ideas by amplifying the voices of those who are frequently silenced by dominant groups.

Now let's answer the question I've posed: If you chose A as the bad thing, then you are correct! If you chose B as the bad thing, your priorities seem horrendously misplaced.

[ram2008]

148. I highly doubt someone attending a college in LA would face racism enough to need a 'safe space'

What are the hate crime statistics for this individual college? How many assaults based on race have their been? I'm sure there aren't even a dozen and the number is close to zero.

Self-segregation opens up a whole new can of worms and in reality destroys a lot of the progress our society has made in the past few decades.

Don't like what someones says? Speak up to them, report any indecencies to faculty, and associate with different people. Don't whine about it and segregate yourself from other races/shield yourself from other ideas just because your feelings might be hurt by a 'microagression.'

This type of crap started taking hold when I was graduating college in 2012 and the people pushing it were the most miserable people I've ever had the displeasure of trying to converse with. EVERY LITTLE THING said was hyper analyzed and was made into an indictment on society. Make a joke? OMG that's so inconsiderate. Wear a sombrero on Halloween? OMG CULTURAL APPROPRIATION ((I'm hispanic for christ sake!). That girl's attractive. YOU SEXIST. Let's drink beer and watch football. PATRIARCHY.

The disdain for these types was generally universal across races, and most people would just roll their eyes and continue on with their day, while they continued to be miserable and create drama out of meaningless human interactions.

Real racism does exist, however, and I experienced it a lot at college. But there were resources available to me if I needed them and I never felt any of the stuff I experienced warranted faculty intervention and I absolutely never felt my life was threatened-- college is the safest space there is. This microagression/safe space stuff undermines real racism and the cause for true equality. It is running away from the problem, reverting, rather than confronting it and moving forward.

[Todays_Illusion]

150. This is how you are carefully taught to hate and how the conservatives control the dialog.

They don't like anything liberal or progressive but certainly began to look foolish and lose their power attacking this particular thing and that particular policy so they developed a them style approach.

When they designate a problem area to attack they create a catchy phrase, sometimes these phrases are introduced in situ by friendly people in the institutions they attack

Here are some of those phrases in play heavy play this election year.

Identity politics

Social Justice Warriors

Radical Feminists

Safe places

They reduce important issues to a negative tinged phrase and are used as negative dog whistle code to conservative voters.

We all like to think we are informed and are not being manipulated by a false deliberate created narrative, that is not only a damaging conservation and discussion killer it is an entirely fake narrative and certainly stops any efforts for progress because the focus becomes on defending a lie for just that purpose.

When you see one of these phrases used in an article . . . and take it up, you do exactly as you are being directed to act.

I have deliberately left oiut some of the most controversial phrases I think everyone can notice them.
We have to regain some control of the talking point dialog and stop being suckered into discussions that create more divisions.




Some older ones: Code Pink,

Some are used to push very conservative agendas, like mass incarceration: "Tough on Crime." and some promote good conservative goals, you must be "good for business, etc.

I am always suspicious of any articles using these talking points and phrases, they are conservative in intent and purpose.

[TipTok]

151. Most of the people pushing some of those phrases...

... don't need help to look foolish, bigoted or to turn people away from their cause.

[Taitertots]

159. The people who want this are disgusting bigots

The irony is that some of the worst racists perceive themselves as anti-racism.

[kwassa]

163. Then the world is full of disgusting bigots ....

all those black people that enjoy living with each other.

[Taitertots]

164. Caring about the complexion of your neighbors is vile bigotry

And there is no shortage of them in the world.

But oh please, let me hear your explaination of why the KKK's policies are different when Black people want it.

[kwassa]

165. How absurd. Neither vile nor bigotry.

People care about all kinds of things. They might care about the complexion of their neighbor because they think they have a nice complexion.

A historically marginalized group is asking for a space devoted to their interests. That is all. It is not the entire university, it is one space. Membership in that space is voluntary. Not all members of that marginalized group may want to participate in that space. The space exists as a small sanctuary from the outside world.

This isn't bigotry

"Bigot."

: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

[Taitertots]

173. Oh... You're one of those people who thinks racism is justified by historic marginalization

It's still racism. It's still bigotry. It's still disgusting.

[kwassa]

180. It is only bigotry in your world.

This doesn't fit the definition of bigotry. You are misusing the word.

[NuclearDem]

179. Alright, then why do they think they want a sanctuary from an entire race of people?

[kwassa]

181. Because they have been mistreated by an entire race of people?

That is how institutional racism works. Black students live in a racist society, and they want one small spot as sanctuary. What is wrong with that?

[NuclearDem]

182. I wasn't aware university officials were condoning cross burnings on campus.

Or are we talking about "you looked at me wrong, I'm offended" microaggressions?

[kwassa]

185. So, you deny racism happens on university campuses?

Your comments reveal your pretty complete lack of knowledge on the subject.

In fiscal year 2015 the U.S. Department of Education recorded 146 cases of racial harassment on college and university campuses, down from 177 the previous year but up from 96 in 2009.
"We have seen no upward or downward trend over the past quarter-century," Slater added. "It's been steady, and probably only a tiny portion of the racist incidents ever get reported."
In fact, research has showed that only about 13% of racial incidents at colleges get reported to a campus authority (PDF), suggesting that the problem is much worse than it appears.
But several factors may be amplifying the issue as never before. In an age in which campus misbehavior can be documented with a phone and spread on Facebook or Twitter within seconds, racist incidents are less likely to go unnoticed.
"Social media has certainly been a factor in getting the word out," Slater said. "If something happens on campus now, the word is going to spread incredibly quickly. It definitely has an amplifying effect."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/us/racism-college-campuses-protests-missouri/

[NuclearDem]

187. Racial incidents != institutional racism

If universities were trying to cover them up or are not disciplining the people responsible, that would be some sort of institutional racism. Of course there are going to be people who are racist or who do stupid things on campuses.

But you're talking about 177 incidents in a country of 320 million people, 600 or so with the most liberal numbers, spread across hundreds of institutions. It's not good, but it's probably at a much, much lower rate than the country at large.

If universities were examples of "institutional racism", they wouldn't be taking non-white athletes or giving admissions preference to non-white students.

[kwassa]

188. You minimize.

So do about a dozen others on DU. I have their names memorized, they pop up in racially related threads.

It would also be helpful for you to get more education on this subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#In_higher_education

Data has shown that students of color and White students have different perceptions of campus racial climates. In a survey of 433 undergraduate students at one institution found that, in comparison to White students, students of color felt differently about campus policies. White students were more often to describe their campus racial climate as positive, while students of African descent rated it as negative. Findings indicate that students of color experience harassment that is, "offensive, hostile, or intimidating" at higher rates than White students, which interferes with their learning. Further, "students of color perceived the climate as more racist and less accepting than did White students, even though White students recognized racial harassment at similar rates as students of color".[145] In addition, many African American students have a hard time to fit in a white predominant colleges because of the fear of "becoming white."[146]

White students also felt more positive about their classroom experience and the way professors presented various viewpoints in the curriculum, about institutional policies as well as recruitment and retention of student of color. Students of African descent and other students of color felt the campus environment was not friendly and that they had been targets of racism. In another study of 5,000 first year students at 93 institutions, White students were more likely to agree with the statement that "racial discrimination is no longer a problem" than students of color.[145] White students were also more likely to feel that the campus climate is improving in comparison to students of color. White students felt the campus climate was non-racist, friendly, and respectful while students of color felt that it was racist, hostile, and disrespectful.[145] Research has shown that racial diversification in colleges and universities, without intentional education about systematic racism and the history of race in the United States, can lead to creating a racial campus climate that is oppressive towards students of color. There needs to be, "intentional education interventions related to the changing racial composition of college students [which] would likely influence how the climate of an environment changes".[145]

[NuclearDem]

189. It seems a lot of black kids are equating culture shock with racism.

College is full of people who don't come from the same cultural, socioeconomic, ethnic, racial, or religious background as other people, and a lot of people deal with this sudden reception of new groups differently. Black kids seem to be reacting to a non-majority black environment in much the same way religious kids react to a religiously-diverse or majority-non-religious environment: equating difference of opinion with persecution. "Institutional racism" is just the racial equivalent of what the religious kids would call the "atheist/secular conspiracy against Christianity."

It's largely unprovable, the evidence is stacked very much against the argument, but sufficient appeals to emotion or underdog arguments are made to convince people that it exists, or that they at least are a bad person for thinking it doesn't.

Yes, some atheist college student is probably going to be a dick to one of the Christian students, but that doesn't mean the university is conspiring to destroy the Christian's faith.

[kcr]

195. You, and the way things seem to you, are exactly why safe spaces are needed. n/t

[Taitertots]

184. They have not been mistreated by an entire race

The vast majority of white people are not racist. It's how democracy works. If an entire race of people were interested in mistreating black people our country would look a lot more like pre-1850.

[kwassa]

186. You don't understand either racism or institutional racism.

What you really need is history education.

Racism is built into the structure of our society, regardless of whether individual white people engage in personally racist acts or not. The racism against black people happens without active participation from many white people at all. That does not clear white people at all of responsibility. Many colleges and universities are just beginning to come to understand how their success and finances were built on the slave trade, as George Washington University has done quite recently.

It is white privilege, which manifests itself in many ways.

One historical example: Many whites made their way into relative wealth coming out of the Great Depression and WWII with guaranteed housing loans through HUD via the GI Bill. Those loans were not only denied black GIs, the mortgages for whites depended on them not living near blacks. Minority neighborhoods had bright red lines drawn around them on maps, and no black people were offered federal mortgages. This increased wealth gaps between blacks and whites, with all the attendant racial issues that derived from that. This was official US policy.

[TipTok]

196. I'm not accountable for what other people do...

... and I don't need to be 'cleared of responsibility'.

[kwassa]

200. And your attitude is exactly why institutional racism continues to persist.

Through your white privilege, and through our history, you and I and all other white people are accountable.

[TipTok]

202. Why would I be responsible for the racism of other people?

I can only control my own actions and I treat people by my assessment of their merit and nothing more.

I owe nothing more and expect nothing less from anyone I encounter.

[kwassa]

212. Because you are white and enjoy a privilege because of that.

You don't function alone in the universe, though you might think you do. You are part of a culture, a town, a family, an employment place, a society. That entails responsibilities on your part as members of those groups.

Being white gives an extra advantage. Your position is probably better due to wealth gained by your ancestors on a path that was denied to minorities. Being white now will currently give you advantages over minorities.

[TipTok]

216. I have no more control over being white than I do over the actions of others...

Why would I feel responsible or even guilty for something I have no control over?

[Uponthegears]

217. Dare I add

that you have juxtaposed "feeling guilty" and "taking responsibility" or, better yet, "admitting reality?"

Nothing you have accomplished in this society would have been accomplished to the degree it has been save for the color of your skin. To use the phrasing of our greatest president, "you didn't make" your success on your own. You had the helping hand of white privilege.

Now we could argue until the cows come home whether you contributed to and/or perpetuated "white privilege" (and no doubt you would prefer to) but there really is no argument but that you benefitted from it and people of color are hurt by it. That being the case, let's return to the discussion of safe spaces.

All safe spaces do is to admit that people of color deserve special treatment to offset the advantages/domination of white privilege, in other words, to level the playing field. They deserve a place where their voices control the conversation.

How is that even debatable?

[TipTok]

218. That's called private property...

This whole concept is patronizing.

"Oh, you poor delicate baby. We know you can't do as well as that white guy over there so we'll give you a helping hand"

Double irony points for referencing Obama on that one btw...

It just reinforces to a whole new generation that they are not equal, not as good and need extra protection just because of how they were born.

Some folks seem determined, at all costs, to cling to racial divides.

[Uponthegears]

219. Now where have I

heard this before?

Oh, yea, it's at the heart of the Scalia/Thomas attack on admission preferences and affirmative action.

[TipTok]

220. Couldn't tell you....

How could such a system to anything but reinforce the idea that someone is less capable of success due solely to the color of their skin?

[Uponthegears]

222. No, what it tells you

Is that an equally, or more, capable person is less likely to succeed as a result of their skin color.

[TipTok]

223. Distinction without a difference...

It's the equivalent of every teacher from K-12 telling a student they are slow and then wondering why they have problems later on.

[Uponthegears]

224. No, it's the equivalent

Of telling little Wendy Wonderbread that she had help getting her A so her classmate will get help too.

[TipTok]

230. In summary...

She's white and you're not so you get special treatment.

Reinforcement from day 1...

Also, what do you think the AA equivalent of "Wendy Wonderbread' would be? If you aren't comfortable typing it out maybe you should think about why...

[Uponthegears]

233. The voice of privilege speaks (and judges)

Here's where I lose you . . . you simply don't believe that white folks are privileged.

In summary . . . She's been given an advantage that the black kid in her class hasn't and you don't see a problem with it.

As for your question . . . go ahead and answer it yourself. Please give us one more example of (some) white people's inability to admit that the races are not similarly situated.

[TipTok]

234. I'm not suggesting that there aren't challenges for PoC that white people don't face....

I'm saying that the solution is to not reinforce that one group is less capable than another.

The way to get rid of those separations is to treat everyone on merit alone otherwise whatever changes you think you've made are unsustainable once the support is removed.

[gollygee]

168. You appear to have trouble with the concept of context

Context matters.

[Matrosov]

197. This is nothing like the era of segregation

African-American students choosing to stay away from racism isn't anything like forcing 'inferior' blacks to keep from 'contaminating' white neighborhoods.

[Uponthegears]

201. So tired of hearing

The privileged whine about ANY limitation on their "freedom"

Since its chear that some white folks believe they have a First Amendment right to maintain the verbal components of the old master/slave relationship, it appears that the only way to correct persistent institutional racism is to "level the playing field" by reversing the historical factors which have left people of color subjugated.

Accordingly, I propose that white people be subjected to 400 years of slavery as practiced in its most reprehensible form (Southern plantation slavery, including, but not limited to the elimination of all social institutions, such as monogamous consensual relationships, family units, education, freedom of expression, etc.). Following that period of time, they will be declared free, but legally discriminated against for another 100 years. Then, we will declare discrimination "over" while they still have only a fraction of the per capita wealth of their old masters, are systemically pushed into deadly police encounters, and are disenfranchised from the political process. After that, we will mock them and call them snowflakes and whine about them wanting a public place where they don't have put up with our incessant demeaning remarks.

Oh . . . And they can throw in the 60 trillion dollars they stole too

[Rex]

211. I guess you can pretend something forced on someone and something totally voluntary are the same.

I'm sure bullies like the idea of people hating on safe places. Just imagine a safe harbor for kids that get picked on all the time, but yeah go ahead and pretend this is about segregation.

I can see why the idea of safe places pisses off a particular type of person.

[bklyncowgirl]

221. Part of the benefit of college is broadening your horizons and taking you out of your comfort zone.

That includes meeting and interacting with and even living with people who are not like the people you grew up with. It can be challenging and even disturbing at times, and yes, some people are jerks, but it is all a part of growing up and learning to live in the real world. It can also be a life changing experience and I believe one that makes someone a better, more well rounded person.

To me this is a good thing. These days we get to pick and choose our media so that we never have to listen to opinions we do not like. We can choose to live in neighborhoods where the people around us look like us, act like us and think like us and pick and choose our friends. (I am talking about voluntary self-segregation here--not de-facto or mandated segregation which are reprehensible) Most of us interact with people who are not like us only at school or work or at family reunions. This contributes to the fracturing of our society to the point where some of us don't even see each other as human any more.

I can understand the desire to be around people like you--we all have the tribal urge within us--it's part of being human, but if we are have a society in which all groups can interact with each other in a civil and productive manner and where we see people as individuals not as threats, more interaction--not less--has to be a major goal of our system of higher education.

[OneGrassRoot]

232. About forced versus self-segregation...

Not sure how unique I am in that when I am told I MUST do something, my knee-jerk reaction is to rebel against it. When I have NO choice, I resent the hell out of it.

I think most of us are like that.

With the CHOICE of self-segregated housing options, I actually think it will encourage more meaningful interactions and discussions. When we have that sanctuary (a safe space to sleep, bathe, and retreat from the myriad interactions of the day) I've spoken of repeatedly today, we're more empowered and more likely to engage in potential contentious or uncomfortable interactions.

If these self-segregated spaces become about supremacy over other groups - or if accommodations vary such to create privilege and more oppression -- that is what would perpetuate the systemic problems which continue today, though are often invisible to those not negatively impacted by them.