Glyphosate Found in Childhood Vaccines

[lovuian]

http://www.ecowatch.com/glyphosate-vaccines-1999343362.html

Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Monsanto's flagship herbicide Roundup and hundreds of other herbicides, has been found in vaccines. Moms Across America received preliminary screening results from Microbe Inotech Laboratories Inc. of St. Louis, Missouri, which showed:

MMR II (Merk) vaccine had 2.671 parts per billion (ppb) of glyphosate
DTap Adacel (Sanofi Pasteur) vaccine had 0.123 ppb of glyphosate
Influenza Fluvirin (Novaris) 0.331 ppb of glyphosate
HepB Energix-B (Glaxo Smith Kline) 0.325 ppb of glyphosate
Pneumonoccal Vax Polyvalent Pneumovax 23 (Merk) had 0.107 ppb of glyphosate

The MMR II vaccine had levels up to 25 times higher than the other vaccines. Following our test, additional independent tests have confirmed these findings at or above the same levels. The tests were conducted using the ELISA method.

[linuxman]

1. And?

What is it about that particular compound that bothers "Mom's across America"?

Lot of degrees in that bunch?

[Major Nikon]

6. This is the 3rd time they've used the same fucked up lab

First they manufactured bullshit from the same lab that nobody could reproduce
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Glyphosate#Glyphosate_detected_in_breast_milk

Then they said glyphosate was found in wine (same lab) at levels 10 times lower than what the EPA allows for grapes causing the naive to freak out about a possibly not carcinogenic substance measured in parts per billion contaminating a definitely carcinogenic substance measured in ounces.

So now we must freak out from another fucked up pseudoscience report produced by the same scaremongering group of dipshits using the same pseudoscientific lab that specifically caters to the dipshit scaremongering crowd.

[womanofthehills]

12. Maybe you don't want an herbicide/pesticide injected into your body - Duh!

and the World Health Organization's IARC, ( International Agency for Research on Cancer) says glyphosate is a possible carcinogen.

Problem with American Moms??? - you don't have to be a scientist to look at all the research.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. Don't use any dollar bills. You are likely to get addicted to cocaine by your logic (see post #9).nt

[womanofthehills]

45. Cocaine is not being injected to my body - bad analogy

[Bernardo de La Paz]

47. Yes it is. You absorb it through your skin from 9 out of 10 paper money bills. . . . nt

[stevenleser]

125. Your comments in this post really speak to a lack of Scientific knowledge.

There are all kinds of molecules in minute quantities flying around in the air, molecules of natural carcinogenic or toxic substances. If you knew what they were and didn't understand how small and insignificant the quantities were, you would freak out.

The quantities listed in the OP are so small, there is virtually no poisonous or carcinogenic substance that would be problematic in concentrations a hundred to a thousand times as much. You are inhaling and ingesting molecules of naturally occurring toxic and carcinogenic substances at those levels all the time with no ill effects.

It is important to know not only the concentration of a substance in the air or water or in our food or in a vaccine, but also the level at which it is considered toxic.

Carbon Dioxide is in the air naturally occurring at concentrations of 360 parts per million. That is around 100,000 times the concentration of the substances in the OP. And Carbon Dioxide is an asphyxiate. Concentrations of 70,000 to 100,000 parts per million will cause death in humans within an hour or so.

Now if I told you that Carbon Dioxide is an asphyxiant gas and where you are we have found concentrations of 360 parts per million, without knowing the danger level of that gas you might freak out, not knowing that it has to be 30 times that concentration to be at all problematic and 200 times that concentration to be fatal.

You need all these pieces of knowledge to know whether a given concentration of a substance is a problem and the OP does not provide all this information.

[okaawhatever]

182. +1,000 nt

[Major Nikon]

185. It gets even better

The same poster was freaking out about a report from the same lab and same group of cranks that said glyphosate, measured in parts per billion, was found in California wine. Now just imagine how scientifically illiterate you have to be to freak out over a de minimis amount of a possibly not carcinogenic substance contaminating a definitely carcinogenic substance measured in ounces.

[SidDithers]

191. But homeopathically, the stuff is lethal...nt

Sid

[Major Nikon]

2. Looks like "Mom's Across America" is using the same fucked up pseudoscience lab

...scaremongering over bullshit as usual.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. And??

[Warren DeMontague]

4. Oh ffs

[Botany]

5. Junk Science

end of story

[LeftyMom]

7. Do you have any idea how little .123 parts per billion is?

That's 0.0000000123% of the whole.

In other words, if this test was accurate a .5 mL dose of dtap might contain .00000000615mL of glyphosate.

In homeopathy that means a dtap shot will kill weeds. In the real world it means shots are made with eggs or glycerin which are made with farmed animals which are fed wheat and corn.

Christ, anti-vaxxers are dumb.

[Major Nikon]

10. 8 times that much is 1 drop of water in an olympic sized swimming pool

And that's assuming their fucked up pseudoscience "lab" results are even accurate, and there's no reason to suspect they are.

[LeftyMom]

13. You mean it's not going to kill bermuda grass?

Shit, I hope Amazon will cancel my shipment.

[Major Nikon]

38. Diluted at the rate of 1 drop per 8 olympic sized swimming pools, probably not

YMMV

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Water has a memory

Like, it remembers the moon bombing VERY well!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

129. you win this thread.

[trotsky]

200. LMAO n/t

[Major Nikon]

8. Vaccines cause autism

http://www.ecowatch.com/cbs-reporter-ben-swann-tells-the-truth-about-cdc-vaccine-cover-up-1882117096.html

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. No. Your scientist says vaccines DO NOT cause autism.

Very recently, Mr. Richard Morgan, Esq., Dr. Thompson’s whistle blower attorney, stated that Dr. Thompson will be publishing a paper in May, 2016, where he will assert that the MMR vaccine is not linked to autism in African American males. Instead Dr. Thompson will state that socioeconomic factors alone in the African American community account for the original MMR-African American male “effect” (the effect that he is on record as stating the CDC purposefully hid). https://www.focusforhealth.org/dr-brian-hooker-statement-william-thompson/

Dishonest editing of Thompson's statements by Andrew Wakefield: https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2016/03/22/andrew-wakefield-releases-the-trailer-for-his-william-thompson-video-slick-production-and-dishonesty/

[Major Nikon]

39. Correct. The post was intended to show the same source as the OP is a dipshit anti-vax site

Anyone site that posts Robert F. Kennedy, Jr's thoughts on autism and vaccines can be summarily dismissed on the subject.

[womanofthehills]

65. Maybe Robert F. Kennedy won lots of vaccine injury lawsuits

and the US court has paid for vaccine injury for autism. When the court pays out for vaccine injury, it never admits the vaccine caused it. It is standard on their form.

Vaccine Court Awards Millions to Two Children With Autism

The federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, better known as “vaccine court,” has just awarded millions of dollars to two children with autism for “pain and suffering” and lifelong care of their injuries, which together could cost tens of millions of dollars.

The government did not admit that vaccines caused autism, at least in one of the children. Both cases were “unpublished,” meaning information is limited, and access to medical records and other exhibits is blocked. Much of the information presented here comes from documents found at the vaccine court website.

Some observers will say the vaccine-induced encephalopathy (brain disease) documented in both children is unrelated to their autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Others will say there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/post2468343_b_2468343.html

[Major Nikon]

66. He's an anti-vaxxer, so it's not surprising that he's your hero

But you're not an anti-vaxxer yourself, right?

[Bradical79]

178. lol -nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Same bogus kind of statistic as cocaine on dollar bills.

Something like 90% of US paper money has detectable cocaine residue on them. That does not mean that 90% of Americans are cocaine users.

Do you have any conception of what a tenth of a part per billion is? Let me help you understand.

2.671 ppb = 0.000000002671 = 0.0000002671 %.

You would have to mix one teaspoon of glyphosate into 374,391,614 teaspoons of water to get that concentration.

That is 487,489 gallons. That's an Olympic sized swimming pool.

2,500,000 L in an Olympic pool (550,000 imp gal; 660,000 US gal), assuming a nominal depth of 2 m. 2,500 m3 (88,000 cu ft) in cubic units. About 2 acre-feet.

About 8 to 20 Olympic sized swimming pools for the other measurements.

Glyphosate is in the environment. Get used to it. Chicken-Little alarmism does not help your cause.



Eight pools:

[LongtimeAZDem]

88. My god! Don't those people know they are swinning in industial solvent?!?

It's used in gold mining, fer crissake!

[MohRokTah]

11. BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[womanofthehills]

16. Vaccine ingredients - latex, mercury, formaldehyde, egg, antiobiotics, dog kidney cells , aluminum

dog kidney cells from female cocker spaniels (wondering how many dogs they use or if they just keep replicating the cells)


Might as well add a little pesticide to the mix!!!

Last year, only one third of the flu vaccines were mercury free.

[MohRokTah]

17. Wackadoo woo

And complete anti-vaxxer anti-science bullshit.

[womanofthehills]

18. The US flu vaccines are made by about 8 different companies with different formulas

tell me one ingredient on my list that is not in a flu vaccine.

[MohRokTah]

19. Please stop spreading anti-vaxxer woo. eom

[womanofthehills]

40. Time magazine - Some people may get a new flu shot that’s made with dog cells

For those of you who are allergic to eggs

Some people may get a new flu shot that’s made with dog cells instead of chicken eggs

This year Novartis shipped its first full batch of Flucelvax, a new vaccine that was only approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 2012. The company made a limited amount of the shot last year, but there are more doses to go around this flu season. And for the first time, the doses were made at the company’s newly approved U.S. plant in Holly Springs, North Carolina.

The vaccine is made without growing the influenza virus in chicken eggs, which is the way that flu shots were made for more than four decades. Instead, Flucelvax is grown in KIDNEY CELLLS FROM DOGS. The technology means that the shot can be made in less time than a traditional flu shot—enough virus can be churned out in about 65 hours to 75 hours, compared to the six months or so it takes to grow in chicken eggs. It also means that people who are allergic to eggs now have another option for getting immunized against the flu.

The cell-based technology is also a plus during a flu pandemic, since the platform can produce more doses quickly to control an outbreak as a particular influenza virus spreads among a population. The kidney cells are frozen and can be thawed quickly to begin growing virus. The company has produced doses of pandemic flu vaccine against H5N1 using the cell technology, and it’s keeping them in deep freeze as part of the U.S. government stockpile in the event of a pandemic.

http://time.com/3548419/flu-shot-flucelvax/

[womanofthehills]

20. What is anti-science about listing flu shot ingredients?

[MohRokTah]

21. When your list is complete anti-vaxxer woo. eom

[womanofthehills]

51. CDC list of vaccine ingredients - How is the list WOO - it's just a fact

From CDC website. There are many different flu vaccine formulations to choose from.

Common substances found in vaccines include.

Aluminum gels or salts of aluminum which are added as adjuvants to help the vaccine stimulate a better response. Adjuvants help promote an earlier, more potent response, and more persistent immune response to the vaccine.
Antibiotics which are added to some vaccines to prevent the growth of germs (bacteria) during production and storage of the vaccine. No vaccine produced in the United States contains penicillin.
Egg protein is found in influenza and yellow fever vaccines, which are prepared using chicken eggs. Ordinarily, persons who are able to eat eggs or egg products safely can receive these vaccines.
Formaldehyde is used to inactivate bacterial products for toxoid vaccines, (these are vaccines that use an inactive bacterial toxin to produce immunity.) It is also used to kill unwanted viruses and bacteria that might contaminate the vaccine during production. Most formaldehyde is removed from the vaccine before it is packaged.
Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol which are used as stabilizers in a few vaccines to help the vaccine remain unchanged when the vaccine is exposed to heat, light, acidity, or humidity.
Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

For children with a prior history of allergic reactions to any of these substances in vaccines, parents should consult their child’s healthcare provider before vaccination

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

[uppityperson]

148. Did you know high concentrations of table salt and sugar have antibiotic qualities? Essential oils

do also. Lavender, rosemary, tea tree oils are used topically for their antibiotic qualities.

I'd rather have my vaccine not be growing toxic bacteria.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. Nothing. Your CONCLUSIONs are anti-science.

You eat as much of those ingredients (and probably much more) in a year as you ingest of them via a flu shot a year.

You better stop eating because there is more mercury in the food you eat.

[womanofthehills]

34. You have choices - you can choose a vaccine without mercury

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. You have choices. You can stop eating. You can become a Breatharian. . . . nt

[womanofthehills]

82. You now can choose a clean vaccine

without mercury, latex, antiobiotics, alluminum, egg, dog kidney cells - it's Flublok

[LeftyMom]

91. You misspelled two of your scary ingredients.

[uppityperson]

149. But "antiobiotics, alluminum" are really scary

[Major Nikon]

42. You also have a choice not to be an anti-vaxxer

Yet you decline.

[womanofthehills]

54. Or I could be a pro-vaxxer but want a cleaner flu vaccine

As of now, the childhood vaccines are the safest. The flu vaccines have the most vaccine injurys according to the vaccine injury charts.

[Major Nikon]

55. No, you just want to scaremonger while simultaneously claiming not to be an anti-vaxxer

As if anyone is supposed to believe that.

[womanofthehills]

62. My children and grandchildren have had all their childhood vaccines

but none are getting the flu shot until Guillain Barre is not listed as a possible side effect.

[Major Nikon]

69. You do realize getting the actual flu is a much bigger risk with GBS, right?

If you actually were concerned about GBS seems like you'd be more worried about them not getting the flu shot, but then that would shatter your manufactured anti-vaxx concerns.

[uppityperson]

150. You are MUCH more likely to get GBS from having the flu than any vx

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/basics/causes/con-20025832

The exact cause of Guillain-Barre syndrome isn't known. The disorder usually appears days or weeks after a respiratory or digestive tract infection. Rarely, recent surgery or immunization can trigger Guillain-Barre syndrome.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/detail_gbs.htm

Usually Guillain-Barré occurs a few days or weeks after the patient has had symptoms of a respiratory or gastrointestinal viral infection. Occasionally surgery will trigger the syndrome. Recently, some countries worldwide have reported an increased incidence of GBS following infection with the Zika virus. In rare instances vaccinations may increase the risk of GBS

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/guillainbarre.htm

Many things can cause GBS; about two-thirds of people who develop GBS symptoms do so several days or weeks after they have been sick with diarrhea or a respiratory illness. Infection with the bacterium Campylobacter jejuni is one of the most common risk factors for GBS. People also can develop GBS after having the flu or other infections (such as cytomegalovirus and Epstein Barr virus). On very rare occasions, they may develop GBS in the days or weeks after getting a vaccination.

[GulfCoast66]

180. Let me guess...

You do not like math.

Especially statistics?

Do you wear a seat belt? Because you could potentially be trapped in a burning car or drown if your car goes underwater because you are wearing one. Of course, the chances are much greater you will be killed dead in a collision of you are not wearing one.

Perfect analogy.

[tymorial]

137. The injuries are not due to the ingredients unless the person is allergic

The vast majority of injuries from flu vaccine is improper administration. This of course doesn't fit your narrative so let's just leave out pertinent information and just make blanket statements.

[uppityperson]

152. The best way to avoid a vx injury is get it in a clinic from a nurse who knows how to safely give vx

and you can adequately expose your entire shoulder for them to see when giving it.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

171. Antivax shitpost. nt

[Major Nikon]

41. Another example of anti-vax nonsense from one of our resident anti-vaxxers

Who claims not to be an anti-vaxxer (like the rest of them).

[Dr Hobbitstein]

52. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, BUT....

Here's a shitpost full of antivax nuttery that I'm "concerned" about.

[womanofthehills]

63. People are so uninformed - they don't even know there are 12 different flu vaccines this season

Most are made by pharma companies not in the USA

Some must be better than others, some must have fewer side effects - but we can't discuss this or we will be an anti-vaxxer

[Dr Hobbitstein]

193. "People are so uninformed"

Yes, yes you are.

[womanofthehills]

71. So we are not to discuss any problems with vaccines - zero discussion allowed

Some kids are still dying but we cannot talk about it.

[Cal Carpenter]

147. Actually, the problem with this sort of discussion

(meaning one based on bad science), distract from scientifically and intellectually honest discussions about ways to improve vaccines. Discussions like this OP do nothing but increase the divide between "pro-vax" vs. "anti-vax" mentalities and leave the actual nuances out of the picture. They make everyone more reactionary and these threads become an ideological shit show rather than a real discussion of any actual problems in vaccines with the goal of improving them.

Can many vaccines be further improved? Yes. Are virtually all vaccines a massive success in harm reduction despite a minuscule number of adverse effects? YES. Does real, good science advance these goals? ABSOLUTELY.

If your goal is to actually IMPROVE vaccines then leave the crap pseudo-science and court decisions (courts are not laboratories; judges are not scientists) and hyperbole and outdated information out of it because you are hurting your cause more than helping it. Stop using sources that are opportunistic fear-mongerers who are twisting bits of truth with lots of lies and misleading info.

[MohRokTah]

56. I've yet to meet an anti-vaxxer who admits they are anti-vax.

Yet they are completely anti-vax in everything they say and do.

[Major Nikon]

59. Post #54

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

[womanofthehills]

61. Look at this list of vaccine injuries in babies - most are from the flu vaccine

Every 3 months a list like this comes out with children whose parents have been compensated by the government for vaccine injury. In the USA we cannot sue pharma for vaccine injury like other countries, we have to take it to the US government vaccine court. Every three months a report comes out. If this many toddlers got sick from Zita is would be big news, but these kids getting sick for life is not news. (and this is just the babies list, not the adult compensation list- and just a 3 month list. There are about 100 lawyers in the US who do vaccine injury = only lawyers who are certified by the government to do it - at least the lawyers are free to the public and take none of the compensation paid.

I'm not saying don't get a flu shot because the shots save lives, but I'll get one when Guillian Barre is not listed as a possible side effect.
this one is just children - reported every three months.

[Major Nikon]

64. Just more proof you have no clue about cause and effect

The US vaccine court was set up because idiots were literally suing vaccine manufacturers out of business causing a public health crisis. You keep pretending court judgments are scientific proof of anything which is utterly ridiculous. Vaccine settlements through that court are even less so because the standard of proof is even lower and there's absolutely no burden to prove cause and effect which you pretend exists.

Meanwhile you dig up nonsense like this along with every other piece of extremely rare side effect remotely associated with vaccines and then claim to not be an anti-vaxxer as if anyone is actually buying that. It would be almost as hilarious as your posts promoting homeopathy, were it not for the fact that anti-vax nonsense manages to kill children you pretend to be concerned about.

For further reading see...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#Concern_troll

[womanofthehills]

70. Other countries can sue pharma and they have changed some of their vaccines to make them safer

Like Japan - now they give the ingredients in the MMR individually and their are fewer adverse reactions

Japanese Government Continues to Ban the MMR Vaccine

The MMR Vaccine’s Tragic History in Japan

The MMR vaccine was introduced in Japan in April 1989, and parents who refused the compulsory vaccine were fined. After three months of analysis, officials realized that one in 900 children developed adverse reactions to the vaccine, a rate that was 2,000 times higher than the expected rate.

Officials had hoped to resolve the problem by switching to another version of the vaccine, but the excessive amount of adverse reactions persisted, with one in 1,755 children affected. Testing of 125 children’s spinal fluid determined that the vaccines had entered one child’s nervous system, with two additional suspected cases.

Four years later, in 1993, the government removed the MMR mandate against measles and rubella. A doctor from Japan’s Ministry of Health and Welfare admitted that the separate, individual doses of measles and rubella cost twice as much to administer, and he defended the decision, stating, “but we believe it is worth it.” Furthermore, a member of the health ministry also stated that the ban has not caused an increase in deaths from measles. [4]

Japanese officials were also concerned about the MMR vaccine causing additional cases of mumps, citing numerous studies in The Lancet.

Mumps and hepatitis B vaccines are not part of the national immunization program in Japan.
https://vactruth.com/2016/06/23/japanese-government-bans-mmr-vaccine/

Why Japan stopped using MMR http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1808316.stm

Japan stopped using MMR because it was linked to outbreaks of non-viral meningitis and other damaging side-effects. Doctors say there were problems with the vaccine which was of a different type to that used in the UK.

They stopped using the MMR vaccine in 1993 and reverted to three separate injections for measles, mumps and rubella.

[Major Nikon]

74. Jebus, you trot out the right wing loon, Mercola and now the right wing loon, Jeffry Aufderheide

It's just a coincidence that your latest source is buds with fellow right wing nutbag Alex Fucking Jones, right?

But you're not an anti-vaxxer, right?

[womanofthehills]

80. It really doesn't matter about the link - it's a fact - Japan now gives measles, mumps and rubella

as separate vaccinations. Lots of links about it.

[Major Nikon]

84. Sure, just a coincidence your get your "facts" from anti-vax right wing loons

But you're not an anti-vaxxer, right?

[uppityperson]

154. I see 2 in there that indicate improper administration. Infants get shots not in their shoulder but

In the vastus lateralis muscle of their thigh. I have had parents insistent on giving the vx in their deltoid and have had to educated them why that is a bad idea. It's possible that those were given there at parental insistence "give it there or nowhere".

[Major Nikon]

92. You can thank biotech and GMO

But I'm sure you won't.

[womanofthehills]

119. I think it's a big step in the right direction

[Major Nikon]

121. Agreed. GMO has all sorts of tangible benefits

[MohRokTah]

94. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr Maru]

95. You post YouTube cartoons?

Ain't helping your "credibility" too much

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. Never eat at a restaurant! They use aluminum pots and more of that gets into food! . . . . nt

[Warren DeMontague]

25. are you really suggesting people shouldnt vaccinate their kids?

[womanofthehills]

26. I'm suggesting people look at the different flu vaccine and make an educated choice

[Dr Hobbitstein]

29. "Educated choice"

I'm not quite sure you know what that phrase means.

I mean, you believe a handful of uneducated alarmists over millions of scientists.

[Major Nikon]

46. To her it means education from quacks and cranks

Here's some of her favorite sources....

Globalresearch

Mae-Wan Ho

Jeffrey Smith

Food Babe

Mercola

[Major Nikon]

77. Add another loon to the list

Post #70

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/06/the-navy-fraud-fronting-the-anti-vaxxer-movement.html

[womanofthehills]

81. You actually have a choice of about 15 vaccines including the pure Flublock

[tymorial]

140. Educated = choice based upon the woo narrative

[Dr Hobbitstein]

172. Right, but that's not the proper definition of educated.

If anything, it's closer to the definition of grossly uneducated.

[tymorial]

174. Oh I absolutely agree

I meant in the minds of woo peddlers.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. oh, but you're talking about more than just the flu vaccine, aren't you.

[womanofthehills]

73. Not really, the childhood vaccines are very safe now

they have had years to perfect them. They have about 3 or 4 weeks of testing on each yrs new flu vaccines.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. So the list in post #16 only applies to the annual flu vaccine, then.

And the glyphosate "issue", here-- again, the concern is only with the annual flu vaccine?

[womanofthehills]

83. Childhood vaccines have a good safety record compared to flu vaccines

Because they don't have to be made new each year, they have years of research behind them. The majority of vaccine injuries are from flu shots and the main injury is Guillain Barre. The majority of the population does well, but I find all the lawsuits alarming. Vaccines for children can not have mercury - that's for the adults.

[Major Nikon]

106. You are parroting out more anti-vax nonsense

Which isn't surprising since you get your "education" from right wing anti-vax loons.

GBS is exceptionally rare and nobody who knows shit from beans about the subject says the flu shot is a causal factor for GBS. A study done 40 years ago suggests that one series of the flu shot at the time might have slightly increased the risk of triggering GBS in individuals who were already predisposed to it. No study since then has validated that hypothesis and there's been over 40 different series of flu vaccines since with numerous varietals.

Meanwhile we know that actually getting the flu is a trigger for GBS, which means that getting the flu shot lowers the already low risk of contracting GBS.

Anti-vax stupid sometimes kills people.

[mathematic]

28. Dog kidney cells?! More vaccines made in a lab

Last edited Sun Sep 11, 2016, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)

[IMG][/IMG]
(img from http://www.yellow-lab.org/)

[uppityperson]

37. No, not "dog". Cocker spaniels!

[womanofthehills]

67. Actually I don't know why Novartis picked Cocker Spaniels

but it's also mentioned only female cocker spaniels - ask for Flucelvax if you love dogs and want their DNA.

[LeftyMom]

89. It's a cell line, not "female cocker spaniels". The cell line was started in 1958.

Christ, it's like saying anything made with HeLa cells is made with agricultural workers.

[uppityperson]

144. Actually it's a cell line from a cocker spaniel in 1958. You do know they grew vxs in horse serum,

don't you? Yes, many of us were injected with vaccines grown in horse serum.

[Major Nikon]

53. Yeah, as opposed to using chicken embryos

[womanofthehills]

79. Actually it's a new different process

called cell culture technology - eliminating the use of antiobiotics. It's free of preservatives and latex and can be made very fast unlike egg vaccines.

But the newest vaccine is free of everything even dead flu virus - Flublock

https://www.flublok.com/ (nice visuals on web page)

You have a choice in flu vaccines. Make a PURE choice.

Rather than grow an influenza virus, we make only the small piece of the virus that is needed for immunity. This piece is called the hemagglutinin, or HA protein. We do this by taking the genetic information that tells cells how to make the HA protein and putting it into cultured cells that are grown in large stainless steel tanks. These cells act as powerful protein-producing machines and make hundreds of copies of the HA protein. We then purify these proteins and package them into Flublok. Each Flublok dose contains HA proteins that match the three most prominent flu viruses circulating during a given year, so that you are maximally protected.

I guess if I was going to get a flu shot, Flublock would be the one I would pick.

[LeftyMom]

86. None of them contain any fucking latex in the medication itself.

Pre-measured syringes of Fluvarin and Flucelvax by Novartis may contain latex in the syringe tip cap. Literally no other flu shot on the US market has any latex at all.

Christ almighty, stop making shit up.

-Very irritated person with a latex allergy

[Major Nikon]

90. Except you're an anti-vaxxer that prefers to promote right wing anti-vax sites to vaccines

Meanwhile flublok is produced with GMO, which is another one of your "concerns". Guess you missed that part.

[Lancero]

96. ...So you're switching antibiotics for a GMO?

Yeah, thats all pure and natural.

[uppityperson]

146. Now you prefer to inject yourself with a vx made with GMOs?

[Sgent]

58. That glass of water on my table

has hydrogen in it. I think I'll launch the next space shuttle after I finish blowing up the Hindenburg with it.

Ethylmercury is not elemental Mercury, much like the glass of water isn't elemental hydrogen. Chemical form matters -- there's no evidence of harm to humans of ethylmercury.

[Major Nikon]

60. Evidence and reality are just technicalities that can be easily avoided if one tries hard enough

[Dr Hobbitstein]

27. Woooooooo....

Woo woo woo woo woo.

The anti-science crowd never ceases to amaze. It's like a perfect circle, where the anti-vaxxers and anti-GMO troglodytes come together in harmony.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. you kind of knew eventually these two deals would hook up.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

32. They'll be hanging with the flat-earthers and global warming denialists in no time.

Flocks of them, dragging their knuckles around, grunting about "me no science, me do research".

[Major Nikon]

57. No, they've been that way all along

Some of them just also go even deeper into the nutbaggery like AIDS-denialism, fluoridation conspiracy theories, 9-11 truthers, UFOs, New World Order, etc. One of our resident anti-vaxxers frequently trots out a source that checks all those crazy blocks along with several others.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. I think I've been subjected to that wisdom once or twice

proverbially speaking.

[GulfCoast66]

181. oh, and do not forget

The earth is only 6K years old. Part and parcel of the same kind of thinking.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

194. Same. nt

[immoderate]

33. Separate groups.

--imm

[Dr Hobbitstein]

35. Not according to article in the OP.

They've come full circle. Anti-GMO hysteria mixed with anti-vax FUD.

[Major Nikon]

48. Rarely yes

More often than not they are the same pseudoscience cranks. The source of the OP is an excellent example.

[Humanist_Activist]

126. Not really, they have a tendency to congregate together, you should check out the...

"March against Monsanto" sometime.

[womanofthehills]

44. See the Time Magazine article above - and CDC info below - Madin-Darby Canine Kidney

information from CDC on their cell based vaccines - I do Not think the CDC is WOO

What are cell-based flu vaccines?

‘Cell-based’ refers to how the flu vaccine is made. Cell-based flu vaccines are made by growing viruses in animal cells. Cell-based flu vaccines are developed through a different manufacturing process than the traditional egg-based manufacturing process that is used to develop flu vaccines. Cell-based influenza vaccines are similar to the egg-based influenza vaccines, but a significant difference is that the influenza A and B viruses included in the cell-based vaccine are grown in cultured cells of mammalian origin instead of in hens’ eggs.
How is the cell-based vaccine manufacturing process different than the traditional egg-based manufacturing process?

In place of fertilized chicken eggs, the cell-based vaccine manufacturing process for Flucelvax uses animal cells (Madin-Darby Canine Kidney, or MDCK) in liquid culture as a host for the growing influenza virus.
Why are cell-based flu vaccines being developed?

Cell-based flu vaccines are being developed as an alternative to the egg-based manufacturing process. Cell culture technology is potentially more flexible than the traditional technology, which relies upon adequate supply of eggs.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/cell-based.htm

[Major Nikon]

49. Yeah, nice job of editing the Time article by adding emphasis where there was none

And then quoting it as if it appeared that way originally.

But you're not an anti-vaxxer, right?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

50. It's obvious you have NO idea what you're talking about.

Just quit, you're making yourself look more and more foolish.

[Major Nikon]

102. Sometimes stupidity has it's own level of toxicity

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/history/index.html

[PatSeg]

132. This is not "anti-vaxxer shitbaggery"

It is anti glyphosate.

And yes, calling a fellow DUer a "moron" could have repercussions. You might want to edit this comment.

[Humanist_Activist]

138. Which is equally as nutty, but do go on with your bad self...

why don't you post this in creative speculation or on your resident woo/conspiracy theorist website instead?

[PatSeg]

143. Thank you for enlightening me

[Humanist_Activist]

151. I have a question, can you give a mechanism of action describing how glyphosate is dangerous...

to humans?

[PatSeg]

153. Because you are really interested?

I don't think so.

[Humanist_Activist]

159. Curious, mostly, I mean, I would be happy to change my mind if actual evidence was presented. n/t

[PatSeg]

161. Okay, I'm sorry

but you must think I am as gullible as you keep saying I am! Or you have a really sardonic sense of humor.

[LanternWaste]

196. Your civility is as broad as is your relevant knowledge.

Your civility is as broad as is your relevant knowledge.

(rationalize below...)

[Humanist_Activist]

199. I find civility is wasted on the alt-reality crowd. n/t

[still_one]

43. ok

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/glyphosate-the-new-bogeyman/

or

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/glyphosate.asp

or

https://www.biofortified.org/2015/01/medical-doctors-weigh-in-on-glyphosate-claims/

"The bottom line is that the crank magnetism is strong in Dr. Seneff. She’s antivaccine and anti-GMO. She is full of Dunning-Kruger, thinking that she can transfer her computer science and artificial intelligence knowledge to knowledge of epidemiology, biochemistry, and medicine. She can’t. Happy New Years."

[radical noodle]

85. From that Science Based Medicine article

Glyphosate is one of the least toxic herbicides used. It inhibits the enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimic acid-3-phosphate synthase which interferes with the shikimic pathway in plants, resulting in the accumulation of shikimic acid in plant tissues and ultimately plant death. The enzyme and pathway do not exist in animals, which is why toxicity is so low. Still, chemicals can have multiple effects and so toxicity needs to be directly measured and its epidemiology studied.

~Words in bold are my emphasis, not the author's.~

Great article!

[Major Nikon]

93. Glyphosate is less toxic than table salt or household vinegar

Kinda funny how some people freak out over a substance measured in parts per BILLION.

Meanwhile hydric acid is now found in most food ingredients and isn't required to be labeled even though it can be toxic even in small doses. It's commonly used as an industrial solvent and it's what killed Andy Warhol.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

98. Are you sure you don't mean dihydrogen monoxide?

[Major Nikon]

100. ...

[Cicada]

68. How do they get the level this low?

Roundup is everywhere. Isn't the level in breast milk a hundred times greater than the highest level shown in vaccines? And don't children consume millions of times more milk than is in a vaccination?

Personally I am amazed the level in the vaccines is so low. We have to take in zillions more roundup molecules in other things we all consume.

[Major Nikon]

72. The lab that the crank site, "Mom's Across America" uses isn't certified

The same crank source used the same crank lab to produce the phony glyphosate/breast milk data that accredited labs can't seem to duplicate.

[womanofthehills]

87. Agreed, Roundup is in everything now

[Major Nikon]

101. So is hydric acid

Hydric acid is now found in most food ingredients and isn't required to be labeled even though it can be toxic even in small doses. It's commonly used as an industrial solvent and it's what killed Andy Warhol.

[tymorial]

99. I am so very tired of woo

And the idiots that spread it. Yes, I mean idiots. Yes, I am likely insulting other DUers. Yes, I expect this to be reported for jury. I am completely unapologetic. I will remain so even if this post is removed.

Antivax nonsense has caused needless illness. It places people at risk and not just the children with stupid parents.

[PatSeg]

133. Anti "glyphosate"

not antivax.

[tymorial]

135. Give me a break.

Woo.

[PatSeg]

141. Woo Hoo to You Too!

[ismnotwasm]

103. Does this mean another year

Of repeated exposure to preventable diseases for me at work because of Anti-vax bullshit?

[SidDithers]

104. Anti-vaxxers at DU should be treated the same as chemtrailers...nt

Sid

[ismnotwasm]

105. Yup

They're about the same thing really

[Major Nikon]

107. Chemtrail stupidity never killed anyone

You can't say that about anti-vax stupidity.

[Agschmid]

110. Yup.

[etherealtruth]

127. Same level of ignorance ... but anti-vax nonsense poses a clear and present danger ...

...chem trail nonsense doesn't (just highlights ignorance and stupidity)

[Starry Messenger]

165. I wish.

[Bradical79]

179. Or birthers -nt

[Harmony Blue]

108. So many elitists on DU that don't even have a scientific background

and didn't bother to read the article in length putting down people that are genuinely concerned and asking the right questions. Science is not an unwavering dogma carved in stones and asking questions is always a good thing because that is the core of science.

The article was well balanced and here is some excerpts about it:

"]According to MIT scientist Dr. Stephanie Seneff, "Glyphosate could easily be present in vaccines due to the fact that certain vaccine viruses including measles in MMR and flu are grown on gelatin derived from the ligaments of pigs fed heavy doses of glyphosate in their GMO feed. Gelatin comes from collagen which has lots of glycine. Livestock feed is allowed to have up to 400 PPM [parts per million] of glyphosate residues by the EPA, thousands of times higher than has been shown to cause harm in numerous studies."

This points out how could glyphosate can be found in vaccines and what the accepted levels are according to the EPA.


"French scientist and glyphosate expert Gilles-Eric Séralini has shown in his research that glyphosate is never used alone. It is always used with adjuvants (co-formulants/other chemicals) and he has found those adjuvants to make Roundup 1,000 times more toxic. The detection of glyphosate in vaccines with this methodology would indicate the presence of other co-formulants which are also toxic."

This is a concern and people have the right to ask tough questions.

Our understanding is not resolute which is why the levels of lead exposure that we have found acceptable to the human body has changed constantly over time, because the science changes and our technology improves as we learn more.

[Major Nikon]

109. Seneff and Seralini are both crank magnet quacks who make their living peddling pseudoscience

Someone who floats those names as having any degree of legitimacy can safely assumed to be wrong on pretty much everything on the subject.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gilles-Eric_S%C3%A9ralini

http://www.alternet.org/food/meet-controversial-mit-scientist-who-claims-have-discovered-cause-gluten-sensitivty

[Major Nikon]

122. The IARC specifically rejected Seralini's research as complete shit

Meanwhile....

Whistleblower Prize

The Whistleblower Prize worth 3,000 euro, is given biannually and was established in 1999.[8] In 2015, the selection of Gilles-Éric Séralini generated some controversy. Ulrich Bahnsen in Die Zeit described VDW and ILANA as consisting of busybodys with best wills - and worst possible outcome in the case of this award.[9] The opinion piece, featured in Zeit Online, described the awarding of Séralini as a failure, and viewed his status as a "whistleblower" as questionable, in light of his use of "junk science" to support anti-GMO activism.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_of_German_Scientists

[Archae]

115. You cite Seneff AND Seralini?

Seneff is a computer scientist, who blames GMO's for concussions.

Seralini's study was shown to be fatally flawed, starting with the fact he used rats that were prone to tumors, to claim that Roundup caused tumors.
AND he got paid quite well by the Organic Growers Association.

[womanofthehills]

118. Give me a break - Seralini's study was exactly the same as Monsanto's only way way longer

[MohRokTah]

128. BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

SUPPORTING ONE GARBAGE SOURCE WITH ANOTHER GARBAGE SOURCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SidDithers]

123. Anyone referencing Seralini has no business questioning the scientific background of DU posters...nt

Sid

[La Lioness Priyanka]

130. i do have a scientific background and fearmongering is not science. nt

[SwankyXomb]

131. Woo posts belong in Creative Speculation and nowhere else.

[PatSeg]

134. And asbestos as well

It does appear to be a lot of "elitists", but it really is only a handful that manage to show up for any thread about Monsanto or GMOs. They often shut down any meaningful discussion, so it looks like they are a majority. They aren't. They are just louder, more obnoxious, and frequently insulting, making a civil conversation impossible. Their favorite tactic is ridicule!

[Humanist_Activist]

136. "Elitists", you mean people who actually know a thing or two about chemistry and biology?

Why is this anti-intellectualism that you spout so fucking infectious?

[PatSeg]

142. Yeah right

We all know who and what I am talking about.

[Humanist_Activist]

145. From what I can tell, you fail high school level science with the BS you spout...

apparently anyone more educated than middle school in those subjects is "elitist" to you.

Seriously, you have yet to post anything even remotely accurate on any biologically oriented subject. You fail to understand chemistry or biology, and worse yet, you revel in that, ignorance isn't strength. Learn about the subjects you are so critical of, I don't understand why people are so incurious about facts and the truth.

[PatSeg]

156. I really don't know how you

came to those conclusions from what I've posted. Actually I have just corrected a few people on their perception of what the thread was about.

It sounds as if you are just talking generally and then directing those generalizations towards me OR perhaps you think I am someone else, as what you've said has nothing to do with me.

"From what I can tell..........." appears to be not much of anything, but apparently ridicule must work well for you or you wouldn't use it so often.

[Humanist_Activist]

158. I'm basing it on all your past posting history, not just this thread. n/t

[PatSeg]

160. I will abstain

from remarking on your past posting history, as we both know what it reflects.

Have a nice day!

[Humanist_Activist]

162. Actually I have nothing to be afraid of with my posting history, here, do you want help?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Humanist_Activist+glyphosate&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

https://www.google.com/search?q=Humanist_Activist+GMOs&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

https://www.google.com/search?q=Humanist_Activist+woo&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

https://www.google.com/search?q=Humanist_Activist+science&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

I could go on.

[PatSeg]

164. Ha, ha!

Oh, that's okay, once is more than enough!

[uppityperson]

163. I don't. Who do you mean by "elitist"?

[PatSeg]

166. I'm sorry

It was a reference to comment #108 from Harmony Blue.

So many elitists on DU that don't even have a scientific background and didn't bother to read the article in length putting down people that are genuinely concerned and asking the right questions. Science is not an unwavering dogma carved in stones and asking questions is always a good thing because that is the core of science.

It wasn't my word, that is why I put in quotation marks.

[uppityperson]

167. Aha, thank you, I appreciate it. Nt

[uppityperson]

168. Who do you mean by "elitists"?

[womanofthehills]

111. It makes sense, as many vaccines are made with eggs - and glyphosate levels in eggs are higher

than other foods because of chicken feed. Animal feed is allowed to have higher levels of glyphosate.

[Major Nikon]

112. You also think right wing loons make sense

You get your "education" from right wing anti-vax loons.

[womanofthehills]

116. You are the one who seems to have a problem with all the progressive sites

like Ring of Fire, Projection!!!!

[Major Nikon]

120. Sure, "all" of them

Actually I don't even have a problem with that one, because even though Papantonio sometimes parrots out quacks like Seralini, at least as a lawyer he's smart enough not to make demonstrably false claims. Obviously YMMV.

Meanwhile the example I gave is just one of the many loony sources you "educate" yourself with like Mercola, Food Babe, Mae-Wan Ho, Globalresearch, et al.

[RayOfHope]

113. Their science is as bad as their editing. Merck, not Merk, Novartis, not Novaris.

Its not helping their cause any

[uppityperson]

157. Wait, they misspelled the vaccines in the article?

Oh my.

[RayOfHope]

175. They misspelled the names of two of the manufacturers, Merck and Novartis.

[Major Nikon]

186. Same nutbag claimed organic food cures autism, fibromyaglia, and Crohn's

The stupid is strong with that one.

[GulfCoast66]

183. It is mighty elitist

Of you to point out spelling errors in others.

[Buzz Clik]

117. Using ELISA for this kind of work, and then releasing the results publicly?

Holy crapoli.

I guess these guys don't give a damn about false positives.

(And 0.3 ppb? Sweet jeebus, are we really pissing ourselves over those levels determined by an unreliable method?)

[obamanut2012]

124. lolz

[Odin2005]

139. Woo site.

[zappaman]

155. wow

[MineralMan]

169. And in everything else, too.

Many things can be detected at parts per billion levels in almost anything. That fact, alone, is meaningless, without examining what the presence of the material really means.

See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028158315

[nolabels]

170. Here is just another leg in the Monsanto regime that won't work

Hello Monsanto,

You only have about a billion years of evolution to try and outsmart, good luck


Mutated pests are quickly adapting to biotech crops in unpredicted and disturbing ways
by George Dvorsky
http://io9.com/5921741/mutated-pests-are-quickly-adapting-to-biotech-crops-in-unpredicted-and-disturbing-ways

[Loki Liesmith]

177. Science just has to evolve too

We don't have to win, just stalemate.

[Major Nikon]

184. You can observe weed adaptations by just mowing your lawn

In an unmowed or infrequently mowed field, dandelions will bloom on relatively long stems. If you mow your lawn regularly, the dandelions will adapt by blooming on shorter stems and defeating your pest control.

The fact that you can travel a short distance to your local market and find a huge variety of produce year round is testament to people winning battles in the war between beneficial plants and their pests. This war didn't just start because Monsanto figured out a way to make plants adapt to inherently produce a desirable pesticide. The war actually started by the plants themselves adapting to their environment and people have been helping that process along for the last several thousand years or so. It's only recently that we figured out a much more efficient way of doing it.

[nolabels]

189. Actually grass is the reason we walk mostly on our hind legs

And without plants adapting us, as primates we would all be somewhat color blind like the rest of the mammals. It's like what came first, the chicken or the egg. We are all captives of our environment and stop gap ideas to modify food crops with gene splicing is mostly folly. If we become real stewards of our world we might insure a rung on the ladder for us to step up. Every other living organism goes along to get along. Our hubris, for which we have been warned by many a philosophers through the ages now goes unheeded. It will take something the like a black plague or something worse before people start understanding with more reverence how we should proceed.

Adapting to how nature works is how we got where we are somewhat. That is the winning strategy and this new thinking of trying to overcome laws of physics and logic is where i think we are taking the wrong turn,

[Major Nikon]

195. Had we not developed intelligence we would still be living in trees throwing our shit at each other

That intelligence is what allowed us to adapt and thrive. Humans didn't get to where we are by simply mindlessly accepting whatever our environment gives us and the suggestion we should simply revert to doing so just doesn't seem like a very good one. Prior to the development of agriculture we were living in caves and huts constantly skirmishing with each other over meager resources. Personally I'd just as soon not revert to that. YMMV.

[nolabels]

198. We never got to choose what that environment was and we adapted to most of them

The world was once entirely covered with forest until grass got a toe hold and started grabbing its stake in the wide open spaces. That small population that began slowly rising up was now able to use its forelimbs to manipulate things. It took a couple of million years but gathering that full time use of the forelimbs and the increased vision over the grassland gave us that advantage and time to expand our tool use and social skills. The intelligence capacity is nothing without others to mirror and learn from.

Agriculture was a strategy developed much later in our development and even part of the reason we prey on each other and enslave others. It's also why with that same thought process some see things in a linear fashion while at different times others see it in wide three dimensional range.

We couldn't get to where we are without both thought modalities and our complex emotional system. We all share in it jointly along with a most revolutionary idea or device partly known as myth. The thinking that ideas can exist in an entire group's thinking and never really materialized into a physical being (also known as belief). They have also mapped out parts that in places of brains (some larger than others) where such a capacity exists. This never existed till us humans came along.

We and everything else is very complex, I just hope we get to hang around long enough to understand it (at least a little better anyway )

[Hekate]

173. It's no doubt found in infants' amniotic fluid and mothers' breast milk as well. Your point?

[Enrique]

176. and our kids don't have weeds

[msanthrope]

187. Does this mean we can lump all the anti-vax and GMO hysteria threads together now?

I appreciate the attempt to consolidate the woo.

[LostOne4Ever]

188. For the love of Athena... anti-vaxxers need to learn what the term trace means! Nt

[Dorian Gray]

190. So, it's

essentially a homeopathic remedy for glyphosate allergies.

[progressoid]

192. Aiiiiiiiieeeeee!!!

[Blecht]

197. Willful ignorance is a scary thing

It forces people to search out utter bullshit to support their nutty beliefs.