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Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:18 PM

Snowden on 'Privacy'

"One of the most important things I think we all have a duty collectively in society to think about is when weíre directed to think a certain way and accept a certain argument reflexively without actually tackling it.

"The common argument we have ó if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear ó the origins of that are literally Nazi propaganda. This is not to equate the actions of our current government to the Nazis, but that is the literal origin of that quote. It's from the Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels.

"So when we hear modern politicians, modern people repeating that reflexively without confronting its origins, what it really stands for, I think that's harmful.

"And if we actually think about it, it doesnít make sense. Because privacy isnít about something to hide. Privacy is about something to protect. Thatís who you are. That's what you believe in. Privacy is the right to a self. Privacy is what gives you the ability to share with the world who you are on your own terms. For them to understand what youíre trying to be and to protect for yourself the parts of you youíre not sure about, that youíre still experimenting with.

"If we donít have privacy, what weíre losing is the ability to make mistakes, weíre losing the ability to be ourselves. Privacy is the fountainhead of all other rights. Freedom of speech doesnít have a lot of meaning if you canít have a quiet space, a space within yourself, your mind, your community, your friends, your family, to decide what it is you actually want to say.

"Freedom of religion doesnít mean that much if you canít figure out what you actually believe without being influenced by the criticisms of outside direction and peer pressure. And it goes on and on.

"Privacy is baked into our language, our core concepts of government and self in every way. Itís why we call it 'private property.' Without privacy you donít have anything for yourself.

"So when people say that to me I say back, arguing that you donít care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is like arguing that you donít care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden on 'Privacy' (Original post)
yallerdawg Sep 2016 OP
MohRokTah Sep 2016 #1
yallerdawg Sep 2016 #3
MohRokTah Sep 2016 #4
yallerdawg Sep 2016 #8
MohRokTah Sep 2016 #9
treestar Sep 2016 #17
deathrind Sep 2016 #10
Egnever Sep 2016 #16
deathrind Sep 2016 #19
randome Sep 2016 #2
CanSocDem Sep 2016 #5
Egnever Sep 2016 #7
Egnever Sep 2016 #6
Post removed Sep 2016 #11
LineLineLineNew Reply .
Egnever Sep 2016 #12
kcr Sep 2016 #13
treestar Sep 2016 #15
treestar Sep 2016 #14
yallerdawg Sep 2016 #18
treestar Sep 2016 #20

Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:36 PM

1. FUCK THAT TRAITOR RUSSIAN SPY MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!!

 

I didn't read a word of your post because that fucking traitor Russian spy deserves life in solitary in Leavenworth.

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:42 PM

3. I thought that, too.

Until I started listening to the man.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:44 PM

4. I don''t listen to bullshit lies from fucking traitor Russian spies! eom

 

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:59 PM

8. Or is it 'whistleblower'?

8 Things That Happened Because of Snowden HuffPo

1. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper had to admit he lied to Congress.

2. The House passed a bill (ostensibly) meant to stop bulk collection of phone metadata.

3. A federal judge said the NSA phone surveillance program is unconstitutional.

4. Tech companies finally got serious about privacy.

5. Britain held its first-ever open intelligence hearing.

6. Germany opened an investigation into the tapping of Chancellor Angela Merkelís cell phone.

7. Brazil scotched a $4 billion defense contract with Boeing.

8. President Barack Obama admitted there would be no surveillance debate without Snowden.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:00 PM

9. He is NOT a "whistleblower. He's a fucking spy.

 

I refused to read anything you posted after your subject line since your subject line is blatantly false.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:18 PM

17. Plenty of that could have happened anyway

and without risks of revealing our state secrets.

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:03 PM

10. 👆 this.

One can accept hook, line and sinker the governments portrayal of Mr. Snowden and not apply any critical thought to what he is saying.

But if one actually applies some effort to read and understand what he is saying they most likely will find common agreement on several issues he speaks to rather intelligently.

The last line of the op is right on target and the best framing I have seen yet that demonstrates the importance of the subject. Saying you don't mind the lack of privacy or the idea that the government is monitoring all you do because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

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Response to deathrind (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:17 PM

16. Would be a great argument if that was the argument

 

but it isn't and only by setting up that straw man does his position become coherent.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:38 PM

19. ...

"When I was four years old, I watched my mother kill a spider... with a teacosy. Years later, I realised it was not a spider - it was my Uncle Harold."

...


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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:39 PM

2. Preach it, brother! No, just...stop preaching, will you? You fucked up. Admit it.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:55 PM

5. Snowden is complicated.

 


Sanders is complicated.

Nader is complicated.

Too complicated for simple minds.


K & R

.

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Response to CanSocDem (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:57 PM

7. I find quite the oposite

 

Snowdens thinking appears very black and white to me. Way too simplistic to be taken seriously.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 03:56 PM

6. Blah blah blah Nazi!

 

He is becoming a meme.

The argument isn't if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. The argument is there is a lot of nefarious shit going on in the world and making it impossible to track does not benefit society one bit. Obviously every effort should be made to protect innocent peoples privacy and even many not so innocent peoples privacy. But there are plenty of legitimate concerns that need to be tracked. The idea there aren't is so simplistic even Snowden can't be that stupid.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #6)


Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:14 PM

12. .

 



Yea theres no human trafficking going on any more or child porn or tax evasion or any of the myriad criminal enterprises going on all over the world. Just evil America...

Snowden is built for people that think like that.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:15 PM

13. No other country or anyone else living anywhere does bad things?

That's insane.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:17 PM

15. Seriously? Nothing nefarious going on in any other country?

That's laughable.

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Response to yallerdawg (Original post)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:16 PM

14. word salad

why is this worm getting attention now?

He does not understand the concept.

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Response to treestar (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:21 PM

18. His movie is coming out!

Last edited Thu Sep 15, 2016, 05:17 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 15, 2016, 04:51 PM

20. Good Grief!



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