Two common notions I find with military and former military

[SHRED]

At least among friends and relatives.

1. Our troops are fighting for our freedoms.
2. The flag is the military's first and foremost.


Like Graham Nash wrote decades ago..."Military madness is killing our country...so much sadness sweeps over me"

[Wounded Bear]

1. This vet does not adhere to those illusions...

Semper Fi.

[SHRED]

2. I salute you

[Adsos Letter]

3. Neither does this one.

Toujours Pret.

[hack89]

4. That is not my perception nor my personal belief.

especially your second point.

[Wounded Bear]

5. OT....Go Mariners!

Still flirting with a playoff run, in late September. Who'd a thunk it?

[hack89]

9. It is getting interesting in my house

I am also a Red Sox fan by marriage (and 16 years in New England) - it will be a hard choice if the play each other.

[Wellstone ruled]

6. Interesting is it not.

Remember Joe McCarthy using similiar verbiage during the finding Commies era of the Fifties. Stain that never goes away,much like Con Job Don.

[The River]

7. I'd Suggest You Self Delete

this post to save yourself any further embarrassment.
You couldn't be more wrong.

[SHRED]

8. Thanks for your concern

[maxsolomon]

11. if this is the OP's experience with military personnel

its anecdotally correct, at least.

[haele]

10. Still depends on who you talk to.

Some people join from a sense of patriotism or tradition - they're probably the ones who believe in your point one and two.

Some people join because they are bored and realize the military gives them a chance to get an education with some reputable job experience, and/or figure out who they are while getting benefits and pay for at least four years.

Others join because they have no real choice in the matter. Either they were drafted, called up as reservists/national guards - which they had joined for "educational opportunities" or to serve their communities if there was a disaster - or they've grown up in a depressed area of the country with no job opportunities available and no other way to leave that location (this is known known as the poverty draft).

I enlisted for the second set of reasons - the same set of reasons which most of the non-Vietnam era service members I've served and worked with had signed up for.

Haele

[ProfessorGAC]

12. It Isn't Exclusive To Veterans, Jeb

I hear it from people who've never so much as driven past a military base. The closest they probably came was driving near the military section of O'Hare airport.

And, i am tired of hearing "fighting for those freedoms". Realistically, how many wars since 1865 were really about preserving the freedom of americans? I buy WWII was about freedom, but mostly of our allies and people in east Asia. And, revenge against the Japanese.

Korea and Vietnam were about a principle that communism was an existential threat (no, i don't accept that as true, since it was never sustainable as constructed) and, of course, money.

Around that same time, the military wasn't used (except in a couple cases of National Guard as enforcement and a show of seriousness) to defend the freedom of black citizens in the south. They were all americans too, and they're freedom wasn't threatened, it was already abridged. And we did not use the military to fight to get that freedom back. (I know, the federal government really isn't supposed to do that.)

GW1 was about oil and allies. (And their money)

Afghanistan was about revenge. (Understandable, i guess.) After all, 3000 people did get killed by a group of psychopaths pretending it was about politics. Yeah, those people sure got their freedoms destroyed, and i had to wait a week to go to Atlanta because flights were canceled, but my freedom wasn't really taken away. I was merely inconvenienced for a few days.

Iraq was about revenge and money (See Bush/Cheney). After Hussein got the taste slapped out of his mouth in GW1, he was the least scary guy to american freedoms. He was never going to want to deal with that again. But, oil and money and revenge.

If someone wants to serve in the military, good for them. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's a tough job, and i'm glad somebody is willing to do it. Our allies do have legitimate threats and we should be helping.

But, just because we say our freedoms are being defended, doesn't mean they were actually at risk.

[hunter]

13. There are plenty of veterans here on DU.

Personally, I don't know any veterans who are voting for Trump.

My dad, and my wife's dad had their college educations paid for by the military. My dad's dad was an Army Air Force officer in World War II.

My favorite boss ever was a Purple Heart Vietnam war vet who became a radical peace activist.

Frankly I find veterans are a much more liberal group than the rich kids who dodged military service nursing their MBAs or crapping in their pants.

Maybe it depends upon where you live. My brother has a friend who grew up in a Southern white racist community. After serving with all sorts of people in the military, establishing solid friendships with people his parents would never approve of (Black and Mexican American), he decided there was no way he'd ever return to his hometown and stayed in California when he was discharged.

Maybe it's the sort who are unchanged by their military service who return to your community.

Myself, I was the weird kid in the classroom who sat out the Pledge of Allegiance. Oaths to kings or nations were sinful. My mom's ancestors were pacifists and religious dissidents who'd fled wars in Europe, and the U.S. Civil War. That's how they'd ended up in the Wild West. My mom's dad was a conscientious objector in World War II. That's hardcore. Even so, I can't make any generalizations about military people.

[rppper]

14. There are a few, certainly, but....

There is also a less vocal block, a good size block I might add, that doesn't fit into the catagories you list here.

I joined the Navy in '89 because there were no jobs in Texas at the time. I babysat 16 nuclear missiles for 2 of my 9 years in, and driver nuclear subs the entire time. I served with some of the best and brightest. We were there because we loved our country...we gave up our constitutional rights for the UCMJ. We served because we believed in America and believed our fellow Americans were worth our sacrifice.

I was liberal long before I raised my right hand and I am still liberal to this day. If the military did anything, it strengthened the views I had already held for years. Broadbrushing entire segments of a populace isn't right no matter who says it, liberal or conservative.

I hope the response by my fellow vets here gives you food for thought.

[SHRED]

15. Thank you

I'm in a very military area of the USA in SoCal. Both my son in-laws have served with one retired Navy. They are rightwingers. This area is rightwing I live in so that also influences my perspective.

[rppper]

16. Sounds like San Diego...

I went to boot camp there...lots of different bases and commands there...the west coast version of the tidewater area in Virginia...lot of retirees. I can see why you feel so surrounded where you're at. As a vet, I can't see the fascination with Trump, but I do understand where and what it's rooted in when it comes to many vets being almost nationalistic. You have to be to a certain degree while you're in. Most of us put the worst aspects of those feelings away when we got out.

Most volunteers in the submarine navy were better educated than their surface counterparts....most had some college background. You had to know where everything was and what it did, up to and including nuclear theory. We were proud of who we were, but most of the people I served with were far from being jingoistic. I think it was because we had to be critical in our thinking. It was encouraged.

[SHRED]

18. Yep.

[cwydro]

17. Nice. nt