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Cyrano

(15,020 posts)
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:08 PM Sep 2016

We can lose this election because of the millennial generation

One of the big factors in this election are the millennials. Here's a link to Paul Krugman's column today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opinion/vote-as-if-it-matters.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fpaul-krugman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection

If too many millennials vote for a third party candidate, we're fucked and Trump will become our fuhrer.

We were all very young and very uninformed back when. Millennials are a generation for which the Holocaust took place in a different time and place. Many "get it." Many don't "get it."

But for many, their world view is different from that of those who are older. And if we don't find a way to get through to them, we will end up with a "President Trump."

No way we can let that happen. We must get through to the millenials and make clear to them the danger we face.

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We can lose this election because of the millennial generation (Original Post) Cyrano Sep 2016 OP
The people voting for Trump generally aren't millenials NobodyHere Sep 2016 #1
If they vote for a third party, we can lose Cyrano Sep 2016 #2
Only if you assume they would have otherwise turned out for Ds whatthehey Sep 2016 #4
They have terrible turnout and aren't Trumpists. Trump's only chance is older low info whites whatthehey Sep 2016 #3
I voted 3rd party many yrs ago as a new voter looking to help change The System. uppityperson Sep 2016 #5
that's the sensible answer. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #58
No, we'll lose it because too many Boomers vote for Trump vi5 Sep 2016 #6
Only 25-43% of baby boomers are liberal phallon Sep 2016 #10
Still BS.... vi5 Sep 2016 #16
How is that relevant to a Trump win... phallon Sep 2016 #20
It's not relevant to a Trump win.. vi5 Sep 2016 #45
No phallon Sep 2016 #48
The Quinnipiac Poll Cyrano Sep 2016 #7
If you throw away your vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnston, you are an idiot. Initech Sep 2016 #8
Not necessarily an "idiot." Just uninformed Cyrano Sep 2016 #9
an uninformed idiot Skittles Sep 2016 #40
Here's the thing Calculating Sep 2016 #11
Every generation has been tired of the "lesser of 2 evils" crap maxsolomon Sep 2016 #13
The GOP has spent 25 years attacking Hillary Cyrano Sep 2016 #14
ha - that one of the lines i use to bait conservatives on FB maxsolomon Sep 2016 #26
And the older generations..... vi5 Sep 2016 #19
oh, i've got enough contempt to go around maxsolomon Sep 2016 #25
there is contempt for them. but it's a race thing, older black voters vote democratic in huge JI7 Sep 2016 #53
I agree they are racists.... vi5 Sep 2016 #60
Here's the real thing. Either Clinton or Trump will be president. Choose. whatthehey Sep 2016 #15
I doubt many of them are registered to vote. cwydro Sep 2016 #12
Are we talking about real "Millennials" or just young people? Atman Sep 2016 #17
Most of the few millenials I know, Hayduke Bomgarte Sep 2016 #18
You should check their voting history after the election and then remind them when needed. LiberalFighter Sep 2016 #31
I urge them to vote. Hayduke Bomgarte Sep 2016 #34
If Clinton loses, we should all blame ourselves for not doing enough to help her win struggle4progress Sep 2016 #21
Then nobody will whine if we blame them, right? treestar Sep 2016 #22
The people responsible Turin_C3PO Sep 2016 #38
If she loses, it's her own fault. But it's not a done deal yet. alarimer Sep 2016 #23
Maybe Hillary should take Krugman's view on Unions Go Vols Sep 2016 #24
Oh the mighty finger of blame. Yeah, that's right no deficiency in candidates. CBGLuthier Sep 2016 #27
It's not just the milennials martigras Sep 2016 #28
80 posts and promoting Trump already? Democat Sep 2016 #29
Try clicking on the little index card icon next time Demit Sep 2016 #33
Promoting Trump? martigras Sep 2016 #44
Amazing. Krugman should know better. LiberalFighter Sep 2016 #30
That's a really important point loyalsister Sep 2016 #42
NO. We can lose this election because of the media. Avalux Sep 2016 #32
What do you expect? The party has largely ignored them for 8 years. davidn3600 Sep 2016 #35
I've heard some version of this during every election since I was young... mike_c Sep 2016 #36
more concern trolling... tenderfoot Sep 2016 #37
Krugman's a concern troll? Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #57
Didn't the majority of milleniels make their preference known during the primaries? Victor_c3 Sep 2016 #39
if they are voting its not progressives they want JI7 Sep 2016 #43
They did...and if I recall on many occassions.... vi5 Sep 2016 #46
+1000 Arazi Sep 2016 #52
This kind of rhetoric is no help loyalsister Sep 2016 #41
Generations need to learn on their own/the hard way - think they're "new" - fuckem UTUSN Sep 2016 #47
Post removed Post removed Sep 2016 #49
Wow. Just wow! Arazi Sep 2016 #50
LOL--the real sin was that the poster didn't know the MADem Sep 2016 #54
What a nasty post. You should be ashamed of yourself. n/t tammywammy Sep 2016 #51
My case for voting Hillary SDOPINION Sep 2016 #55
Well, let's see. One option, we could insult them and call them condescending names. That'll work. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #56
If only Egnever Sep 2016 #59

Cyrano

(15,020 posts)
2. If they vote for a third party, we can lose
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:14 PM
Sep 2016

Think Nader in 2000.

That's the point Krugman is making.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
3. They have terrible turnout and aren't Trumpists. Trump's only chance is older low info whites
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:15 PM
Sep 2016

He is the last gasp of a dying once-dominant demographic

uppityperson

(115,674 posts)
5. I voted 3rd party many yrs ago as a new voter looking to help change The System.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:23 PM
Sep 2016

We can lose this election indeed by not having someone young voters idealistic will vote FOR.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
58. that's the sensible answer.
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 02:26 AM
Sep 2016

seems people here would rather scream at them and call them names, which I don't see is really going to help.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
6. No, we'll lose it because too many Boomers vote for Trump
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:24 PM
Sep 2016

Every poll I've seen shows that a higher percentage of Millenials are planning to vote for Hillary than the percentage of Boomers and Gen X'ers who say they are. But the boomers and Gen Xers are saying they'll vote for Trump, rather than 3rd party. Why is that better?

Millenials are only going to be at fault if you assume that they all to a number owed their vote to Hillary more so than her own generation does.

And that's not even getting into the fact that those older voters should know better having lived through 2-3 Republican presidencies.

This whole millenial bashing and blaming is little more than a pre-emptive way for anyone with any actual power within the Democratic party to avoid any blame for potentially losing to a racist clown like Trump. The election should not be this close to begin with to the point where a few third party voters could potentially shift it to Trump.

phallon

(260 posts)
10. Only 25-43% of baby boomers are liberal
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:50 PM
Sep 2016

That's why we depend on enlightened millennials
To support Hillary. Its is crucial fo their future. I don't see people freaking out enough about a Trump Supreme Court.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
16. Still BS....
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:35 PM
Sep 2016

Nobody owes anyone their vote, and no age group is exempt.

It's even more reprehensible that boomers could have lived through Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2, Vietnam, Iran Contra, Watergate, and on and on and on, and still consider voting for Republicans and/or not being liberal. So let's reserve our contempt for people who have lived through history and still want to repeat it, rather than for people who haven't even had a chance to write their own history.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
45. It's not relevant to a Trump win..
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 09:08 PM
Sep 2016

..it's relevant to the contemptuous, entitled attitude that older Democrats seem to feel about younger generations. They are basically saying "A majority of our own candidates generation won't vote for her/him despite sharing the same experiences and milestones and historical references.....but if they lose it will be your fault younger generation. Even if your demographic is voting for them in larger numbers than their own."

The point is that people who know better and still do stupid things are more to blame than people who are too young to know better.

phallon

(260 posts)
48. No
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 10:07 PM
Sep 2016

I do not believe that. I am not that closed minded. I know the real world is grey not black and white and the world doesn't give a damn about hurt feelings.

I also know that no generation has a lock on moral authority.

By the way, you presume to know a lot about first hand history of the 60's - 80's, so let me ask you, is this offense you feel more a mom-dad based on their politics thing or a truly fact based argument, as you make your assertions regarding older democrats? I don't say that as a put down but when the WWII generation was running things I thought they were all Archie Bunker. I just continue to be amazed that younger folks don't have a large baby boomer membership. There never was that many of us. I mean that. The media has misled everyone about the 60's - 80's and most people forget the pain and wax nostalgic.

Cyrano

(15,020 posts)
7. The Quinnipiac Poll
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:33 PM
Sep 2016

Krugman references the Quinnipiac Poll. Quinnipiac is a university in Connecticut that has conducted polls that have consistently been right on target over the last couple of decades. In many ways, they have been as on target as Nate Silver. And they were doing it before Nate Silver came along.

If you want to take the time to check them out on Google, do so. Otherwise, trust Krugman when he refers to their polls.

In this election, every slice of the pie, other than old white men, counts. The millenials represent a big enough slice to make a difference.

Talk to young people old enough to vote. Talk to your children and your children's friends. Convince them what's at stake.

The Libertarian candidate will pull lots of votes. Let's make sure those aren't votes that would have gone to Hillary.

Cyrano

(15,020 posts)
9. Not necessarily an "idiot." Just uninformed
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:45 PM
Sep 2016

It's up to us to talk to everyone we know who is thinking third party and try to convince them it's a waste, or, to be more direct, a danger.

Either Hillary or Trump will be our next president. Anyone voting for a third party candidate will be responsible for the kind of future we face.

Calculating

(2,954 posts)
11. Here's the thing
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:56 PM
Sep 2016

Millennials don't wanna be told that they need to vote for Hillary because Trump would be a disaster. They want to actually be told WHY they should vote for Hillary outside of Trump being a bad candidate. Millennials are tired of this 'lesser of two evil's crap' and they'll just stay home, or vote 3rd party if Hillary cannot find a way to reach them.

maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
13. Every generation has been tired of the "lesser of 2 evils" crap
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:15 PM
Sep 2016

when they were the age the millenials are now. but guess what? this is how America works, and always has. the center wins.

millenials are a generation that has heard the Clintons slandered as "evil" their entire lives. its no wonder they're not enthused. if she tries to make them enthused, are they even listening? I know my stepson isn't - I have to badger him to vote every time.

if millenials sit on their hands now because they're not enthused (who said you have to be enthused, anyway?), they'll regret the fuck out of it in 2, 4, 6, 8 years, when that fat clown is getting their little brothers killed overseas.

Cyrano

(15,020 posts)
14. The GOP has spent 25 years attacking Hillary
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:26 PM
Sep 2016

and turning her into a "monster."

There was never enough push back from the "liberal media" so the Republicans got to say whatever they wanted to say without rebuttal.

My guess is that many Republicans believe she "murdered Vince Foster."

Tell a lie long enough and loud enough and it becomes "reality."

maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
26. ha - that one of the lines i use to bait conservatives on FB
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 03:48 PM
Sep 2016

"are you still sore she got away with murdering Vince Foster?".

it's not funny any more.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
19. And the older generations.....
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:38 PM
Sep 2016

...have lived through Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes, and all the scandals and wars and poor economies hoisted upon them by Republicans. Yet they are still voting for Republicans in higher percentages than Milllenials are.

So why don't we save some of our contempt for those that should know better, those that have lived through it, and are still not just not voting for Hillary but actively voting for Trump.

maxsolomon

(32,975 posts)
25. oh, i've got enough contempt to go around
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 03:46 PM
Sep 2016

particularly for my father's generation (he's 80). they let themselves be brainwashed by RW hate speech.

for white people, specifically white men, and their fragile, selfish, willful ignorance of the systemic injustices that face minorities.

young people, I'm not so much contemptuous. I think they're naïve and idealistic. I was too.

I thought Reagan would be the end of the GOP. then I thought Clinton's impeachment would be their end. then I thought Bush the Dumber would be. I'm continuously being stunned at the short-sighted, spite-motivated decisions of the American electorate.


JI7

(89,172 posts)
53. there is contempt for them. but it's a race thing, older black voters vote democratic in huge
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 12:10 AM
Sep 2016

numbers. much more than younger whites .

i think we can all agree most of the older voters who are supporting trump. and they are mostly white are racists.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
60. I agree they are racists....
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 08:23 AM
Sep 2016

..which is why I'll reserve my contempt and blame a potential Hillary loss more on older white racists who actually vote for Trump than young idealists who may not know better and vote Johnson or Stein.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
12. I doubt many of them are registered to vote.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:03 PM
Sep 2016

Even if so, they probably won't be arsed to get out and vote.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
17. Are we talking about real "Millennials" or just young people?
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:36 PM
Sep 2016

Because getting young people to vote is ALWAYS the problem. Old people vote -- they (we?) have nothing else to do. We'll stand in line for half the day. Young people can't sit still that long. There is a party to go to, they have a class to attend, a hook up with that cute red head, a PokemonGo to capture. There is always something going on to distract you. It's similar to the situation with health insurance -- "Why bother? I'm only 24! Nothing's gonna happen to me. Can't do nothin' about it. I'll deal with it when I'm older!"

Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
18. Most of the few millenials I know,
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:38 PM
Sep 2016

2 step daughters, a son in law, an ex son in law, a boy friend and a few I work around, while appearing to be cognizant and even outraged of the issues that effect them the most, can't find 10-15 minutes to vote when election day rolls around. Then when the asswipes gain office they wail and moan the loudest.

It allowed Rauner to become Governor of Illinois 2 years ago, in large part. Now these Millenials, again I'm talking about the handful I know personally, constantly whine about what a disaster Rauner is. I scared to death they'll allow drumpf into the Oval Office.

Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
34. I urge them to vote.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 05:40 PM
Sep 2016

Constantly. All the time. I explain the Supreme Court situation. We talk about education cuts, and who pushed for them, the college tuition and debt fiasco. They get it. Or say they do. Then they just don't vote.

Short of forcing them to vote at gun point, I really don't know what else to do.

Turin_C3PO

(13,649 posts)
38. The people responsible
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 06:01 PM
Sep 2016

will be those groups who vote for Trump: older white people and evangelical Christians for the most part. Not Millennials, as a group, are solidly behind Clinton.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
23. If she loses, it's her own fault. But it's not a done deal yet.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 03:29 PM
Sep 2016

In any case young people never vote in any reliable numbers. It was true of previous generations and is true of this one. They even made the same arguments why they didn't. I'm not sure there is much to be done to appeal to them and I think it would be kind of a waste of time and resources to try. This is not a "change" election. This is more about things not getting worse than things getting better.

I don't need enthusiasm to make a decision. Politicians are not my pals. I don't have to like them personally to know one is better than the other. You vote, then you push them to be better. Hillary will be wrong sometimes, but wrong within reasonable parameters, as opposed to off the charts catastrophically wrong like Trump.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
24. Maybe Hillary should take Krugman's view on Unions
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 03:45 PM
Sep 2016

My kid will vote D because I have told him his entire life that D's are pro Union,its hard to say that anymore when $15 an hour is the goal,which is about a third of what he sees on his check.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
27. Oh the mighty finger of blame. Yeah, that's right no deficiency in candidates.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 04:07 PM
Sep 2016

No, unwelcome baggage. Nope. Just plain old young people are too stupid.

Great attitude.

martigras

(151 posts)
28. It's not just the milennials
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 04:12 PM
Sep 2016

We attended a large gathering of Progressives this weekend (2000+). Saw only a handful of Hillary signs and buttons. What we did see was a ton of Jill Stein buttons and signs on people 40 and up. Very little talk of Hillary and what seems to be a lack of enthusiasm. For the first time I'm thinking Trump may just win.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
33. Try clicking on the little index card icon next time
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 05:38 PM
Sep 2016

before you type your rofl emoji. That poster has been on DU since 2007.

LiberalFighter

(50,477 posts)
30. Amazing. Krugman should know better.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 04:36 PM
Sep 2016

Those millennials are not the same as they were in 2008 or 2012. The demographics change from election to election. Some of those millennials during 2008 and 2012 are not within the age bracket they talk about now.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
42. That's a really important point
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 07:34 PM
Sep 2016

I think too much is being made of this. They aren't stupid and careless about the future as some would like us to believe.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
32. NO. We can lose this election because of the media.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 04:44 PM
Sep 2016

I understand Krugman's desire for young people to vote for Hillary, but the reason Drumpf even has a snowball's chance in hell is because the media has helped him tremendously. He's like a train wreck that they simply must cover, and he is masterful at manipulating them. There's no easy way around it.

That's not to say Hillary doesn't need young voters, and we must each do what we can at the local level, in our families and communities. I honestly don't think enough would vote third party for it to make a difference though.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
35. What do you expect? The party has largely ignored them for 8 years.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 05:47 PM
Sep 2016

Millennials aren't going to play the "lesser of two evils" game. If they are not motivated to vote, they won't vote. You can't ever take their vote for granted.

Obama was able to energize this demographic in 2008 and 2012. When Obama wasn't on the ballot in 2010 and 2014, these voters didn't show up to vote. Many supported Bernie in the primaries. And Hillary hasn't done much of anything at all to get them.

Just saying Hillary is better than Trump is nowhere near enough.

mike_c

(36,213 posts)
36. I've heard some version of this during every election since I was young...
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 05:52 PM
Sep 2016

...and my age begins with a six. "THIS election is always too important to vote for your best interests rather than the lesser evil." I wish I had a dime for every time I've heard some variant of that.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
57. Krugman's a concern troll?
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 02:09 AM
Sep 2016

It is funny that he managed to write that entire column without mentioning the word "marijuana" once.

East coasters, just don't get it.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
39. Didn't the majority of milleniels make their preference known during the primaries?
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 06:08 PM
Sep 2016

If the millenials are in fact an important faction to be courted by the democrats, maybe they should have listened to them during the primaries and offer them a real progressive candidate to vote for

I'm right on the cusp of being a millennial, depending on what definition you look at. I can say that I am not a Clinton fan at all. I will vote against trump and pull the lever for the democratic nominee, but I don't at all support Clinton. My vote of Clinton will not be for her, but it will be against Trump. That's the only way I'll be able to bring myself to select her on the ballot.

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
46. They did...and if I recall on many occassions....
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 09:11 PM
Sep 2016

They were told explicitly "We don't need you anyway." Yet know it seems that the story has changed.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
41. This kind of rhetoric is no help
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 07:30 PM
Sep 2016

Premature scapegoating and writing them off as stupid is not going to convince them to give a second look at the dangerous possibilities.

Response to Cyrano (Original post)

MADem

(135,425 posts)
54. LOL--the real sin was that the poster didn't know the
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 12:11 AM
Sep 2016

difference between "millenniums" and "millennials!"

How does one drown an epoch, or anniversary thereof, in the toilet or anywhere else?

mil·len·ni·um
məˈlenēəm/Submit
noun
1.
a period of a thousand years, especially when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ.
2.
an anniversary of a thousand years.
"the millennium of the Russian Orthodox Church"

SDOPINION

(11 posts)
55. My case for voting Hillary
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 01:52 AM
Sep 2016

I think part of the problem is some younger people only know Hillary as the "establishment candidate"....she is more than that though.....she is tough....she has been through a lot but keeps getting up again. She worked hard to get where she is and had to break through a lot of barriers. She does care she just has a suit of armour around her as she has needed it. A lot of the negatives people bring up about her would not even be an issue if she were a man. "Crooked Hillary" Trump calls her ... "she lies" he says. ....this is from a man who has so many crooked business deals, bankruptcies and lies more than anyone but he gets away with it. Hillary has done things to try and protect herself because of years of ongoing attacks against her because she dares as a woman to want to be President. Let's not turn on her America because she is not charasmatic enough for us.....let's do the right thing and vote Hillary 2016!

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
56. Well, let's see. One option, we could insult them and call them condescending names. That'll work.
Tue Sep 20, 2016, 02:05 AM
Sep 2016

Another is, we could actually come out strongly in favor of a position supported by a majority of Americans that is the prime factor driving voters to Gary Johnson, namely the legalization of recreational marijuana-- or at the very least REAL reform at the federal level, namely descheduling, to resolve the increasingly untenable conflct btw. Federal and State law.


Oh, I know, but that's crazy talk. Much better to go with "insult and belittle them"

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