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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsArizona now considers changing diapers to be a sex crime.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/09/16/arizona_child_sexual_abuse_law_guts_due_process_for_parents_and_caregivers.htmlIf You Change a Babys Diaper in Arizona, You Can Now Be Convicted of Child Molestation
The Arizona Supreme Court issued a stunning and horrifying decision on Tuesday, interpreting a state law to criminalize any contact between an adult and a childs genitals. According to the court, the laws sweep encompasses wholly innocent conduct, such as changing a diaper or bathing a baby. As the stinging dissent notes, parents and other caregivers in the state are now considered to be child molesters or sex abusers under Arizona law. Those convicted under the statute may be imprisoned for five years.
How did this happen? A combination of bad legislating and terrible judging. Start with the legislature, which passed laws forbidding any person from intentionally or knowingly touching any part of the genitals, anus or female breast of a child under fifteen years of age. Notice something odd about that? Although the laws call such contact child molestation or sexual abuse, the statutes themselves do not require the touching to be sexual in nature. (No other states law excludes this element of improper sexual intent.) Indeed, read literally, the statutes would seem to prohibit parents from changing their childs diaper. And the measures forbid both direct and indirect touching, meaning parents cannot even bathe their child without becoming sexual abusers under the law.
Arizonas Supreme Court had an opportunity to remedy this glaring problem. A man convicted under these laws urged the justices to limit the statutes scope by interpreting the touching element to require some sexual intent. But by a 3-2 vote, the court refused and declared that the law criminalized the completely innocent touching of a child. The majority declined to rewrite the statutes to require the state to prove sexual motivation, when the statutes clearly contain no such requirement. Moreover, the court held that the laws posed no due process problem, because those prosecuted under the statute could still assert lack of sexual motivation as an affirmative defense at trialone the defendant himself must prove to the jury by a preponderance of the evidence. As to the risk that the law criminalizes typical parental tasks, the majority shrugs that prosecutors are unlikely to charge parents engaged in innocent conduct. (This just trust the prosecutors dodge doesnt always work out so well in Arizona.)
This country is going insane! I am less and less sure that we will be able to survive as anything other than a third-world country, with a dictator (and his family), people starving in the streets (oh, wait, they already are and people are getting arrested for trying to feed them), purges and pogroms, etc.
The legislatures in tea-party states are going crazy, as are the courts. And we've got a madman supported by the Republican Party with an actual change to become President.
Iggo
(47,545 posts)Yay!
Calculating
(2,955 posts)You mean it's not?
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)I still can't believe it is for real. Babies are going to be covered in rash and stinky if that is taken seriously.
Don't you feel like you are in a bad nightmare and about to wake up? These outrageous happenings are so far-fetched, I sometimes feel like I've moved to a new planet where wisdom and common sense aren't allowed.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)WE are idiots just like in the movie called Idiocracy...
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)In fact, I've quit watching most movies, as so many never get around to coming up with a plot.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)Orrex
(63,185 posts)unc70
(6,110 posts)Can't believe our NC GOP has missed passing such a law here. Quick! Better call a special session of the GA.
ismnotwasm
(41,971 posts)Does this mean that actual pedophiles will be unable to be convicted under it in any case?
What a fucked up insane bunch of bullshit
forgotmylogin
(7,522 posts)And application of diaper rash remedy.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)It would be harder to argue a constitutional right to cut off a foreskin without consent. Some would call it a First Amendment right for the parent, I suppose.
Initech
(100,054 posts)WillowTree
(5,325 posts)You know as well as anyone else that that was never anyone's intention.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)When you write laws, they need to be clear enough that people do not have to speculate about your intentions. This is the essential job of lawmakers.
Of course the general rule of legislation is "One half of this year's session will be devoted to undoing the unintended consequences of last year's session"....
milestogo
(16,829 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)I read Slate regularly and that writer has a habit of twisting things. Not very reliable.
GWC58
(2,678 posts)Ilsa
(61,690 posts)Postnatal and pediatric nurses sometimes make contact with babies' and children's genitals, especiially if they need to be catheterized.
LuvNewcastle
(16,843 posts)They could have saved the state and everyone else time and money and simply declared it unconstitutional. Fucking idiots.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)there is no way a court can strike down a law.
Can you tell me in what way this law violates the Constitution?
LuvNewcastle
(16,843 posts)I think that making something criminal that is a common necessity is enough to strike down a law. They made it illegal to bathe your baby, for fuck's sake.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Yeah, I know it is a stupid law but the remedy is on the legislature.
LuvNewcastle
(16,843 posts)Those morons made a stupid law and now the people who elected them (and some who didn't) are paying the price for it. Maybe the court was trying to send a message to Arizona voters about making stupid decisions when they go to the polls. I still think he court had the power to overturn the law, but I can definitely understand your point of view as well. In the end, the fault lies with the people who elected that legislature.
WDIM
(1,662 posts)In the US constitution there is.
Of course I'm not familiar with Arizona constitution but the US constitution protects all rights the right to clean ones self and their offspring who are unable to clean themselves is a natural right.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Read it front to back and again and then admit you are very, very wrong, OK.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)subjecting to criminal prosecutions parents or other child caregivers changing diapers.
Infra, ¶ 52. But if a prosecution actually were to result from such innocent behavior (no
such case has been cited), an as applied constitutional challenge would likely have
merit in light of parents fundamental, constitutional right to manage and care for their
children.
http://www.azcourts.gov/Portals/0/OpinionFiles/Supreme/2016/CR150348PRHOLLE.pdf
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/455/745/case.html
What the majority decision says is that in this particular case, the touching was not innocent, so they say they're not going to consider if it would be unconstitutional in other cases:
(A) person to whom a statute may constitutionally be applied may not challenge that statute on the ground that it may conceivably be applied unconstitutionally to others in situations not before the court.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)malthaussen
(17,183 posts)So the Court is saying they won't overturn the law until it is challenged by someone who does have standing, which is arguably stupid, but probably defensible.
-- Mal
WDIM
(1,662 posts)All human rights.
Cleaning ones self is a human right.
The constitution does not grant rights it protects the natural and human rights we all have.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I was trying to read that decision to see what it really was. I have a feeling this is being used as an outrage machine.
They could be rebuking the legislature for their wording. The statute may clearly say that and the legislature should repeal and try again.
sarisataka
(18,539 posts)Don't bathe your kids and you are guilty of child neglect. Bathe your kids and you are a child molester.
Response to Stonepounder (Original post)
kestrel91316 This message was self-deleted by its author.
rurallib
(62,401 posts)meow2u3
(24,761 posts)Who's the idiot who wrote this POS law to begin with?!
tblue37
(65,269 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)What could go wrong?
Takket
(21,549 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)haele
(12,645 posts)Child Molestation.
Any appeals lawyer will tell you that if it's in regards to a criminal case, Supreme Court judges don't really look at the right or wrong - or intelligence - of the statutes within a law in this sort of case, but whether or not the ruling against the person was given after due process criteria was satisfied.
If someone wants to change the law through the courts, they can't do it through a criminal case. They need to sue the state over that law, and bring the challenges to the law in front of the judge.
Good going, AZ. Shows you've got a bunch of legislators who never had to actually take care of their kids; people (male or female) obviously have no clue what sort of activity is involved in raising a kid other than throwing money at other "lesser" people who will do the dirty work for them.
Haele
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)If you vote against them, you are now labeled a "friend of child molesters" by your political opponents.
That's how these poorly-written "tough on crime" laws always get passed. Nobody wants to go on record voting against them.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)in Day Care, Pre-K, and those who work with Severity Special Needs children in Public Schools.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Remember that day when the internet thought sharing Netflix passwords was illegal? Did they start swooping in and arresting everyone then? No. That happened because some dissenting judge threw a hissy fit and declared that could happen. Same thing here. This case involved an 11 year old. The dissenting judge didn't like the fact that AZ law says that people who sexually molest kids can't get away with the defense that they didn't have sexual intent. So they claim that's what this means. It doesn't mean that judge is right. Same thing with the Netflix panic judge
ETA reading the law, it DOES allow for a defense of intent. So, I don't get the dissent, here. Does this judge not know that they can't re-write laws? Either way, the headline and article is wrong.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)Initech
(100,054 posts)chillfactor
(7,573 posts)the jails will be filled with parents, caregivers, doctors, nurses, babysitters, etc. I wonder if Arizona has enough jail cells to hold all of these "criminals."
yellowcanine
(35,698 posts)This is what happens when you get a bunch of anti science people making laws.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)A indigent parent with a baby. Police want some way to bust the parent, so they can arrest based on the law, indigent can't afford bail, child is placed with protective services, indigent waits for trial...and waits...and waits...judge tosses the arrest after indigent has already served a couple of months, and not the indigent has to get the ACLU interested? Even though the case has been kicked out.
No one can see the potential for abuse of this law??
Bettie
(16,083 posts)Easy to say "so and so is an unfit parent because...".
kcr
(15,315 posts)each time they change a diaper? Mom changes a diaper, dad gets custody, then when he changes a diaper mom will win it back...
Somehow, I doubt it.
Bettie
(16,083 posts)trying to prove that X is an unfit parent. It calls into question what is an appropriate versus inappropriate touch and leaves it open to the interpretation of a judge or social worker.
There is where the abuses can and probably will take place.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Will Y claim they don't change diapers?
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)roamer65
(36,745 posts)LisaL
(44,972 posts)themselves. Or die.
dembotoz
(16,796 posts)good thing my kids are out of high school think i am safe
phallon
(260 posts)Mme. Defarge
(8,020 posts)or meet the standard of being both reasonable and enforceable.
marybourg
(12,606 posts)The tea bagger constituent/pal whispers a crazy theory or idea into the ear of a tea bagger legislator and 3 months later a law appears.
Remember to one about a doctor having to tell a woman who's had a medical abortion that it can be reversed? That's exactly how it came about.