White Man Shoots at Police, They Shot Him With Bean Bags, Then Arrest Him Alive,

[KamaAina]

But Unarmed Black People are Killed

http://urbanintellectuals.com/2016/09/19/white-man-shoots-at-police-they-shot-him-with-bean-bags-then-arrest-him-alive-but-unarmed-black-people-are-killed/

“A suspect who shot at officers while being barricaded in a Brea motel for hours was taken into custody Monday evening, according to police....

When officers arrived at the scene, they said the man fired at them through the door.

After being barricaded for several hours with SWAT outside the motel, the man was eventually shot with bean bags and tackled by SWAT.

Apparently, police officers are capable of de-esculating and arresting suspects, even shooters, alive, but this only seems to apply to White people. Black people are routinely shot and killed in this country….even when they don’t have a weapon.

[pangaia]

1. Maybe it is because the cops only see whites as people.

[Solly Mack]

2. So they play toss across with white suspects who shoot at them.

Good thing they didn't have to break out the water pistols.

(Yes, I am aware that bean bag projectiles hurt...but hurt ain't shot dead for merely existing while black)

[JanMichael]

3. Next time it be a good old cornholing shot. nt

[Midnight Writer]

4. Police act professionally, take dangerous suspect alive. Good for them. Keep it up.

[sheshe2]

6. Seriously?

What!?

[Midnight Writer]

7. Yes. Seriously.

[sheshe2]

11. Okay

Care to explain to me why a white man that shoots at police was taken into custody unharmed and a black man unarmed with hands in the air is shot dead? I would love to hear your explanation.

I am pretty sure it will be a great read.

I will read your explanation tomorrow. It is late. I await your response.

[NobodyHere]

21. No black unarmed man has ever been taken alive?

Different cops respond differently to situations. Police aren't a hive mind.

[heaven05]

56. not near as many

as whites, that type of treatment of beanbags being used to stop the AA is the rare exception in the case of AA's stopped or involved in some police incident. It is "kill the fucker, ask questions later". These high profile executions are just the tip of the iceberg that Titanic America is heading toward full speed.

[tblue37]

68. It is a modern form of lynching. nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. Because the cops in Brea are not the same cops....

.....as the guys who shot the man in Charlotte?

[Midnight Writer]

41. The police in Brea...

1) Assessed the situation, backed off without escalating the situation

2) Made a plan to take the man alive without lethal force

3) Successfully implemented their plan, took the suspect alive, and no one was killed

The police in Tulsa did none of these things, the police in Charlotte did none of these things.

Would it be a good thing if the cops in this case charged the motel firing lethal weapons, killing the suspect and any one else caught in the crossfire? Would that somehow balance the murder of black citizens by the police who are sworn to serve and protect those citizens?

I am outraged at piss poor police work, especially when it results in unnecessary force, violence, injury or death.

I congratulate police when they defuse a dangerous situation in a professional manner and no one is killed.

[Albertoo]

73. Because the situations (and police units) are very different

• When a shooter is barricaded with a gun, the SWAT gets called in, and they have better training and equipment.

• It doesn't compare to police officers on the beat reacting to unplanned for scenarios.

The OP's premise that it would illustrate an institutionalized racism just doesn't make sense.
(Would Obama or Eric Holder have vetted such an "institutionalized racism"?)

May I humbly suggest to de-escalate the rampant conspiracy theories about the police on DU?

[LanternWaste]

74. The conspiracy that black men are shot by police at a per-capita higher rate?

"May I humbly suggest to de-escalate the rampant conspiracy theories about the police on DU?"

The conspiracy that black men are shot by police at a per-capita higher rate? Or is there a different conspiracy you yourself wish to allege to argue against (which I find much more likely given your postings), or allege a premise to the OP not in fact made but merely inferred?

[Albertoo]

75. Straw man + non sequitur + ad hominem = bravo to you

Straw man: you hint that I would deny that "black men are shot by police at a per-capita higher rate"

Non sequitur: you imply that that assertion in and by itself demonstrates an unsubstantiated claim, i.e. that that higher per capita rate would be proof of an institutionalized racism.

Open to any interpretation ad hominem: "given your postings". Even more vague: "Or is there a different conspiracy you yourself wish to allege to argue against"


Back to the main OP discussion: it is a fact established scientifically that all of us have unconscious biases, one of which being ethnicity. So random police officers might or might not hold such prejudices to varying degrees. But to directly conclude that the shootings of black men, sometimes by black police officers, systematically boil down to a nefarious and grand-sounding "institutionalized racism" is adding oil to whichever fire might exist.

[melman]

10. You'd prefer more people be shot?

That's an interesting take.

[sheshe2]

12. Read my response above.

I have no intention of repeating myself.

[uponit7771]

16. Some posters troll forums, get agro, piss everyone off bad for them... they should go to helll

[heaven05]

45. RIGHT

NO CLUE

[hardluck]

5. Sometimes they shoot the white guy too, especially if he mentally ill...

http://articles.burbankleader.com/2003-12-31/news/export4808_1_officer-shot-butcher-knife-police-officer


"A Burbank man who reportedly confronted a police officer with a butcher knife before being shot has been charged with felony assault.

Tom Bernard McCoy, 58, was arrested Friday on suspicion of attempted murder after he charged a police officer with a butcher knife and ignored the officer's orders to drop the weapon, Burbank Police Lt. Dave Gabriel said."

[sheshe2]

8. Is he dead?

No.

Black people are and they never had a weapon and their hands were in the air. Your point? I am sure you have one.

[melman]

9. Are you saying white people are never killed by police?

You can't possibly believe that.

[uponit7771]

17. Obvious strawman, the poster said UNARMED BLACKS are disproportionately killed even when hands are

... in the air.

I'm not sure how that was missed

[Igel]

19. Key word is "disproportionately."

The general tenor of the thread is "only."

We pick over 10s of thousands of police/civilian encounters and find deaths of unarmed blacks; that's our sample, and it's immediately judged representative and exhaustive.

We do the same and find cases where whites are not killed; that's our sample, and it's immediately judged representative and exhaustive.

If we example the entire set, we find that more whites than blacks are killed (unarmed), and that some of those that the public "knows" were of unarmed blacks weren't of unarmed blacks. We find that unarmed blacks are disproportionately killed, but we're talking not hundreds in "excess," nor scores, but dozens in a black population of something like 42 million. We go to stats to show something that the absolute numbers don't merit.

But because we use stats and gobs of anecdotal non-representative samples, our little brains exaggerate the numbers--threats are exaggerated and help to foster a lot of hatred. When you get that kind of hatred and distrust, that kind of us-versus-them thinking, it means that if a member of that other group does something suspicious and you assume the worst. "Is that a gun or a book?" Hey, it's a member of the group that you distrust, assume it's a gun. "Did they shoot intentionally or was it an honest mistake?" Hey, it's a member of the group that you distrust, you assume it's intentional.

Lose the boundaries, lose a lot of the distrust. Except that too may find their self-identity in those boundaries, and justify too much bad attitude in terms of perceptions formed around and in order to justify those boundaries.

With the caveat that everybody's always willing to change, but really, it's all on the other guy because we are the good guys and don't do anything wrong. And if the stats and numbers say otherwise, then the stats are obviously incorrect.

[heaven05]

46. PURE BS

[jonno99]

53. Actually, it's spot on. The shooting is Charlotte is a prime example. Folks going

off half-cocked - acting on emotion, rather than waiting for the facts.

[heaven05]

55. BS enabler and

a wait and seer to boot. A Twofer. Been hearing that wait and see BS too many times. Spot off!!!!! It was murder, pure and simple.

[jonno99]

57. I'd rather be a wait & seer than a "run-off halfed-cocker". And yep, too many other times we've

seen that the half-cockers were wrong. So what do we end up with? An endless cycle of mistrust.

No thanks...

[heaven05]

59. mistrust or lack of trust

well deserved. Au Contraire on the "WRONG", too many times, too many lies and coverups involved in these executions. You are entitled to believe what you please. I shall go off fully cocked and be right in my TOTAL mistrust of the "official" statements by perpetrators of the lies and coverups every time from Trayvon till now. I am finished dealing with murdering cop apologists. Forever.

[EX500rider]

58. Also the police arrest about a million people a month..

....that's over 30,000 arrests a day.....

[hardluck]

14. My point is

First, unlike what is implied in the OP and some posts here, not all white people are treated with kid gloves as the one in the OPs news article because police "see whites as people." Some are just shot - especially the mentally ill. And yes, the man in the news article I posted did not die, but not because the police officer was lenient but because he was a bad shot and hit him in the hip.

Second, the police disproportionately shoot mentally ill people. Indeed, at least one study showed that between 25% to 50% of fatal police shootings involved the mentally ill.

The gentleman shot in Charlotte was reported to have a TBI and based on preliminary reports May have had a weapon (it is unclear if he did, or even if he did, whether he pointed it at the police). Similarly, the man in the article I posted had a TBI from a car accident approx 4 months before the shooting. He was in a coma a month and had just been released from physical therapy to spend x-mas with his family. He was 20 feet away, could barely walk and at least arguably not a deadly threat to the officer when he was shot.

We have a use of force problem in the US.

[Waldorf]

15. The point is white people are killed by police, just like POC. Reading some comments here a person

would come to the conclusion that only POC of are shot by police. Here is a link from the Washington Post. Yes, it shows that blacks (especially males) are shot at a higher percentage than whites based on population but more whites are still shot and killed by police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.75bf13ab5cb0

[uponit7771]

18. Another overt strawman, the poster said UNARMED BLACK PEOPLE are disproportionately killed even with

... our hands in the air !!!

I have YET... YET to see a white person killed who had their hands in the air

[7962]

34. Maybe you could use that Google thing and you could find some pretty easily

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/us/san-antonio-bexar-county-texas-police-shooting/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/01/video-apparently-shows-texas-police-officers-shooting-and-killing--man-who-had-his-hands-up--surrender/71511908/

"unclear what the suspect's intent was in raising his hands and cautioned against a rush to judgment." Sound familiar to other cases??

There's the 1st one that pops up
Enjoy

[uponit7771]

60. Welp, can't say I never saw a white person with their hands up vid now. WOW... wtf is wrong with

... LEO culture in some cities !?!?!?! why are they so comfortable with shooting first!?!?

Do you think it could be gun culture in the US??!

jus wow

[7962]

64. We've always had gun culture; but now we've got an abuse of power problem.

Too many thugs wearing blue these days. Not like when I was growing up in the 70s/80s
You cant tase a guy with his hands up? Or let your partner help take him down? Guy didnt even have a shirt on, so tough to say he was "hiding something"

[uponit7771]

66. +1

[ecstatic]

20. They shot a 5 year old child just last month

Despicable!

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/08/05/baltimore-county-police-fired-shot-that-wounded-5-year-old/

[Marr]

22. White people are killed by police all the time.

More whites are killed by police than are blacks, in fact. I'd be the first to agree that our police are too trigger happy in this country, but it seems like many are primarily trying to make incendiary arguments, rather than useful ones.

[KamaAina]

23. Uh-huh. And how many of them were unarmed?

[Marr]

49. According to this Washington Post article,

the number of unarmed whites and unarmed blacks killed by police was the same:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.0f142d7f3c06

Again, my point is not that there's no disparity-- there obviously is. But the article above, and your question-- both suggest an assumption that police simply do not shoot white people. They do.

[uponit7771]

61. Nice try, they're NOT the same proportional to the population seeing blacks are only 13 of pop

[Marr]

63. You really don't read anything but the title bar in a post, do you? /nt

[uponit7771]

65. I read the first line in your response which is a red herring, you said the number of blacks

... and whites shot was the same.

That's not the issue being talked about here, proportionality is

[Lancero]

24. With as many white people that the police kill...

You'd think that at least ONE person would be able to come up with a example of one getting shot and killed with their hands up in the air, just like how so many blacks had their hands when shot to death.

No one is saying that the police acting professionally is a bad thing - We're wanting to know why the average officer refuses to act professionally towards ALL races instead of just one.

[oberliner]

27. Video Shows California Cops Fatally Shooting 19-Year-Old Dylan Noble

Authorities in California on Wednesday released body-camera footage showing two police officers fatally shooting a 19-year-old white man named Dylan Noble.

Investigators are trying to determine whether the officers were justified in using deadly force during the shooting last month, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said at a news conference, according to the Washington Post. The teenager was unarmed when he was shot four times, authorities said.

“Were the last two rounds fired by the officers necessary? Based on a reasonable fear, did the officers have to use deadly force? I do not have the answer to that today,” Dyer said, according to the Guardian. “That video was extremely disturbing to watch.”

http://time.com/4406112/dylan-noble-fresno-video-shooting-police/

[Lancero]

28. One versus dozens. Police aggression disproportionately affects AA's...

Excusing this behavior with 'well, they do it to whites too!' is a prime example of how prevalent racism is among all groups.

[exboyfil]

30. Dillon Taylor

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/3/1390285/-Shocking-new-video-shows-unarmed-Utah-man-was-listening-to-headphones-when-killed-by-police

Actually very similar to Terence Crutcher.

[Lancero]

31. Up to two now. Still doesn't change this fact right here though...

http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

Which is what the topic was about. That police, for some unknown reason refuse to treat AA's and Whites equally. And how many people, hidden racists the majority of em, justify that treatment with 'well, they do it to whites too!'

[exboyfil]

32. No video but no gun

Christopher Roupe
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/euharlee-police-officer-wont-be-charged-fatal-shoo/137456119

[Lancero]

33. Thanks for proving my point.

"The police do it to whites too!"

[7962]

35. You asked for ONE, expecting NONE. there are several. here's another

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/01/video-apparently-shows-texas-police-officers-shooting-and-killing--man-who-had-his-hands-up--surrender/71511908/

[Lancero]

36. See 31, and thanks for proving my points.

"The police do it to whites too!"

[Skittles]

39. ...

you are losing this one, badly

[Lancero]

40. Considering that they keep proving my point, as shown in 31, I'm not.

Police aggression affects whites as well, but not to the point that it does AA's. It's a racial disparity, one that many refuse to acknowledge and instead try to justify the racist treatment that AA's experience with 'The police do it to whites too!'

That is what this topic was about. How police take a, on average, lighter hand towards whites than they do AA's.

Since people seem to like Snopes, here's their article over the myth that police aggression affects blacks and whites equally.

http://www.snopes.com/do-police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks/

[Skittles]

50. but these silly analogies make no sense

you cannot infer POC are ALWAYS targeted, and white people, because they are so "privileged", NEVER ARE

[Lancero]

67. So, white privilege doesn't exist?

I've got something you should read. Really, I'd recommend that anyone who says 'but whites aren't privileged!' read this given how educational and informative it is.

https://www.deanza.edu/faculty/lewisjulie/White%20Priviledge%20Unpacking%20the%20Invisible%20Knapsack.pdf

It's a old writeup, so not all of the examples are as true as they once were - A testament to how much we've advanced since then - though a lot of it still applies today - A testament of how much further we still have to go.

[Skittles]

69. you really, REALLY need to get some critical thinking skills

these leaps of logic are as silly as the nonsensical analogies

I have NEVER said that POC are not unfairly targeted

[Lancero]

70. You do know what quotation marks around one word generally signify right?

A sarcastic dismissal - Which is what you gave to the idea that white people can be privileged in your above comment.

[Skittles]

71. LOL

ALRIGHTY then



-DONE HERE-

[7962]

48. The "point" is the over use of force by cops of all colors against people of all colors

You tried changing the subject and now you wanna change it back after being shown the proof you said didnt exist

[exboyfil]

47. It was still unjustified but

when Terence Crutcher was shot he did not have his hands in the air. His right hand was down by his body, and his left hand was obscured by his body. This can be seen by the helicopter video (he was shot right when the helicopter video was pointed at his back).

Two recent examples that are similar in nature are Jesse Beshaw and Joseph Weber

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2016/09/17/police-shooting-jesse-beshaw-stuns-winooski/90585130/
http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Man-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-Hays-390653381.html


In the Hays shooting case the police have refused to release any information.

[oberliner]

26. Lots of white men have been shot by police

These anecdotal stories are stupid and insulting.

[exboyfil]

37. Here is a 2016 database of officer involved homicides

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/


You can search by weapon and other parameters.

[UnFettered]

38. Here is one example white guy hands up.

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/la-dad-hands-cops-shot-son-6-lawyer-article-1.2428316

There is a big problem with police and there training in general and it affects everybody.

[lostnfound]

42. It affects Black people disproportionately

And also mentally ill people.

How many 13 year old white kids with airsoft pistols or bb guns have been killed by cops?

[UnFettered]

43. Then whats the sulution

I hear lots of talk but I have yet to hear anybody have anything meaningful to say other than the simple answer that there racists.
I have scene many situations that could have been easily avoided had police been trained to respond differently to situations.

[Skittles]

51. why don't you Google

you were wrong last time so who knows?

[heaven05]

44. SOP

For dealing with people other than AA'S.

[exboyfil]

52. Here are two more

After being tasered they were shot

David Kassick
https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/11/09/pennsylvania-jury-foreman-explains-why-he-acquitted-killer-cop/

Michael Ireland
http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/crime/2015/09/24/sgf-police-city-settle-family-man-killed-officer/72760328/

[doc03]

54. A white guy where I live was chased by the cops for 40 miles, they flattened his tires

with nail strips and he continued on until the engine blew in his truck. He gets out of his truck waves his handgun around
puts it to his head and chest. The cops had a major highway closed for 2 hours and they get him to surrender totally unharmed.
A few days later someone puts up his $25000 bail and the same day he goes through the same thing all over again and they again
arrest him unharmed, he is under $500,000 bail now. To top it off the Sheriff actually said the guy was trying to commit suicide by cop.
There is a guy that wanted to get shot and he gets a pass twice. I posted the incident a few weeks ago and I got flamed for it.
Stuff like are you disappointed he wasn't shot and such?

[uponit7771]

62. +1

[MrScorpio]

72. I've got an entire series of stories just like this posted in the AA forum.