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Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:44 PM Oct 2016

The fact that Ohio has Trump ahead is a big red flag for politicians to stay away from shitty trade

deals. So we have Hillary with a shot at deep red Georgia and Texas but behind in Ohio is pretty eye opening. Trump is such a flawed candidate that he is putting deep red southern states in play this round but those probably won't be in play next time and Ohio will. We can't afford to lose Ohio in the future in a closer election so Democrats better take notice. Ohio is freaking me out.

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The fact that Ohio has Trump ahead is a big red flag for politicians to stay away from shitty trade (Original Post) Quixote1818 Oct 2016 OP
Don't freak out Jason1961 Oct 2016 #1
I agree we very likely have this election won, it's the future I am worried about. Quixote1818 Oct 2016 #3
Not if we win Georgia and Texas! EL34x4 Oct 2016 #14
hmmm..Benchmark has Hillary up by 4.7 in Ohio misterhighwasted Oct 2016 #2
All polls combined have Trump ahead there Quixote1818 Oct 2016 #4
I'll go with Benchmark. Their polling method is the most precise & detailed I see. misterhighwasted Oct 2016 #6
No, Ohio doesn't "decide" the election... Wounded Bear Oct 2016 #19
Ohio has been a republican state for many years, since the days of Jim Beard Oct 2016 #54
You mean that Ohio whatthehey Oct 2016 #5
Romney / McCain supported those deals too. Trump is leading there because he is hammering NAFTA. Quixote1818 Oct 2016 #7
It's easy to hammer NAFTA. Difficult to create an alternative. yardwork Oct 2016 #11
And Romney/McCain weren't sex abusing hapless political neophytes either whatthehey Oct 2016 #15
Nafta is at worse Neutral, so we should run policy on perception of harm, not real harm? Foggyhill Oct 2016 #37
Bush 1 supported NAFTA, in fact his admin started it Motley13 Oct 2016 #53
I supported it at the time of Bush too. I live in Texas so my opinion is more from being more concer Jim Beard Oct 2016 #55
Fortunately, this election doesn't depend on how Ohio votes. stopbush Oct 2016 #8
Reagan destroyed Ohio. liberalmuse Oct 2016 #9
The fact that Hillary is winning nationally might imply something else. yardwork Oct 2016 #10
Thank you. And... NurseJackie Oct 2016 #16
Some of our little friends are sneaking back. yardwork Oct 2016 #17
oh really? trump selling out american jobs and buying china steel is ok with Ohio residents? nt msongs Oct 2016 #12
Built a damn hotel in Vegas with that crap. Will probably cave in on peoples' heads with age. lonestarnot Oct 2016 #13
Nobody is defending Trump here. What we're saying is that the line he takes on trade Ken Burch Oct 2016 #21
No. Glassunion Oct 2016 #48
To make such an odd point requires a little revelant information postatomic Oct 2016 #18
If our platform had said "NO TPP", We'd be doing better now than in '64. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #20
You're overestimating voters' intelligence ... NurseJackie Oct 2016 #22
Amen! KitSileya Oct 2016 #24
Well said Egnever Oct 2016 #42
Yup ismnotwasm Oct 2016 #45
Actually, it's a big red flag that Ohio voters aren't paying attention. Vinca Oct 2016 #23
Brainwashed Bear Creek Oct 2016 #25
Actually, it's a big red flag that Ohio voters aren't paying attention. LenaBaby61 Oct 2016 #46
Many of the people I've seen interviewed sound totally batsh*t crazy. Like that guy. Vinca Oct 2016 #49
That sounds like alot of the people in my part of NW Ohio. bulloney Oct 2016 #60
Ohio is always close EricMaundry Oct 2016 #26
I don't like the realignment on free trade either Peaches999 Oct 2016 #27
Before you predict future Democratic losses, Cary Oct 2016 #32
Elections ebb and flow Peaches999 Oct 2016 #36
This is different Cary Oct 2016 #39
I'm not convinced Hillary will have large coattails Peaches999 Oct 2016 #40
The demographics have changed Cary Oct 2016 #41
They don't like the trade deals... apcalc Oct 2016 #28
Ugh is right Cary Oct 2016 #30
Demographics Cary Oct 2016 #29
Fleshing this out a bit...rural Ohio is very conservative Maeve Oct 2016 #56
The only constant is change Cary Oct 2016 #57
The polls I have seen show OH is split 50-50. LisaL Oct 2016 #31
this Ohioan believes Hillary will win Ohio rbrnmw Oct 2016 #33
I agree its not the time to give up on winning OH. LisaL Oct 2016 #34
historically, Ohio has tended towards close elections, IAW 270towin 538 has clinton 61.38% to win Agnosticsherbet Oct 2016 #35
Nafta is at worse Neutral, so we should run policy on perception of harm, not real harm? Foggyhill Oct 2016 #38
Agreed Egnever Oct 2016 #43
Create a boogeyman out of a trade deal then keep scaring people with it. At the same time pampango Oct 2016 #44
It's bait and switch, now that trickle down has blown up their people, they need a new scapegoat Foggyhill Oct 2016 #47
The takeaway should be that we'll need to fight hard to the end Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2016 #50
Agree pedal to the metal up to and including Nov 8! apcalc Oct 2016 #52
The Republicans might run a pro-free trader next time. David__77 Oct 2016 #51
How do they address this alt right thing? Cary Oct 2016 #58
The Republicans will split after the election Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2016 #62
The Democrats are three steps behind them? Cary Oct 2016 #64
they support Kasich and Obama is more pro free trade than Clinton JI7 Oct 2016 #59
Fucking amazing....6 months ago most on DU were totally against TPP. Now everyone wants it? davidn3600 Oct 2016 #61
Why progressives should rescue the TPP trade deal Grey Lemercier Oct 2016 #63

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
3. I agree we very likely have this election won, it's the future I am worried about.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:55 PM
Oct 2016

Dems need to take Kucinich / Sanders position on trade for us to put Ohio back in the dem column next round. Hopefully Hillary will stay away from TPP as she is suggesting she will.

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
4. All polls combined have Trump ahead there
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:58 PM
Oct 2016

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Again, I am not worried about this election but Ohio often decides the election so we can't let it go red in the future.

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
6. I'll go with Benchmark. Their polling method is the most precise & detailed I see.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:05 PM
Oct 2016

But I agree. At this point anything can change the #'s from one day to the next.
The truth will be Nov 8th, in the actual votes.

Wounded Bear

(58,436 posts)
19. No, Ohio doesn't "decide" the election...
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 10:48 PM
Oct 2016

Last edited Sat Oct 22, 2016, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)

just because the Repubs never win without it doesn't mean that the Dems can't win without it.

If you look at the Bush campaigns, both of them, they engineered it and bit sliced the demographics so that they came down to the one state that cycle that determined the outcome, FL in '00 and OH in '04. It was a different time, and for all of the rhetoric, the division that exists now is nowhere close to what it was then.

The blue wall, or the Kerry wall, or whatever you want to call it means that Repubs basically need to win every single one of the 'battleground' states to win a general election, and the Dems basically need only a couple of them. That is for this cycle, of course, but the trend has been going this way for a while. Trump has accelerated it.

Would love to win Ohio because I really want to win 478 to 0, but realistically, it doesn't bother me much if it goes red.

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
54. Ohio has been a republican state for many years, since the days of
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:07 PM
Oct 2016

our huge president William Howard Taft.

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
7. Romney / McCain supported those deals too. Trump is leading there because he is hammering NAFTA.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:07 PM
Oct 2016

That is a good point though. If Republicans run a traditional free-trade Republican next round Ohio will be easier to win.

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
11. It's easy to hammer NAFTA. Difficult to create an alternative.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:27 PM
Oct 2016

The Donald builds his hotels with steel from China and undocumented workers. Watch his little hands. His words lie.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
15. And Romney/McCain weren't sex abusing hapless political neophytes either
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 02:10 PM
Oct 2016

The point is this supposed trade as a new 3rd rail nonsense is exactly that.

OH is close and PA isn't for one single reason - their demographics are trending in opposite directions in regard to race and education. That's why WV will be deep red for a generation at least even though Clinton won it and why NC and GA are becoming bluer and bluer at the same time. Where is educational attainment and diversity increasing the fastest? That's where Dems will improve best, trade be damned. For Reps the reverse is true.

Foggyhill

(1,060 posts)
37. Nafta is at worse Neutral, so we should run policy on perception of harm, not real harm?
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:49 AM
Oct 2016

That's the opposite of leadership and gives power to demagogues over actual facts.

Even if it does harm a specific area, it may be very positive for the country overall,
should the US not also think of the greater good?

Better to allow the areas affected, if any, to transition to a new economy than keep them
in a protectionist bubble that at best delays the inevitable.

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
55. I supported it at the time of Bush too. I live in Texas so my opinion is more from being more concer
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:23 PM
Oct 2016

about immigration and the extreme poverty in old Mexico. I live near New Mexico.

You have to go back to what was going on at the time. The Berlin wall was torn down and everyone was wondering what to do with the Peace Dividend.

When they mention that not so much security money was needed Building industries DEEP into Mexico, appealed to me.

What happened, WE TRUSTED BUSINESS. They built all the business on the on the Texas border and eventually these people cane to the US.

The republicans bitch about immigration, I was hiring field workers during that time and there was a web site set up where we could verify if the the social security number was valid. It never worked for me, my accountant or any other person I know. That was George bush's administration yet they are the ones crying loudest.

NFTA should have worked but then came Walton that forced his suppliers to do business with China.

BTW, the labor vote has been less and less every year.

stopbush

(24,376 posts)
8. Fortunately, this election doesn't depend on how Ohio votes.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:16 PM
Oct 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/politics/ohio-campaign-trump-clinton.html?_r=0

Oh, and Hillary is ahead or tied in most Ohio polls, and she will win it. It will be icing on the cake.

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
9. Reagan destroyed Ohio.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:18 PM
Oct 2016

And the GOP Congress has shot down President Obama's plans to revive our economy, so it's a miracle we're doing as well as we are.

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
10. The fact that Hillary is winning nationally might imply something else.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:24 PM
Oct 2016

So-called "shitty trade deals" might be the best we can do in our new global economy unless we grow new approaches. Hillary proposes a New Deal creating thousands of jobs in clean energy and green technologies. Her opponent builds with Chinese steel.

I remember the steel and auto industry in their heyday. They had no clue that the Japanese would ever outcompete Detroit. Evolve or go extinct.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
21. Nobody is defending Trump here. What we're saying is that the line he takes on trade
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 10:55 PM
Oct 2016

(deep personal hypocrisy on his part notwithstanding) is basically the only thing that gives him any purchase with working-class voters.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
48. No.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 02:25 PM
Oct 2016

It's his xenophobia, racism, lies, sexism, and fear mongering that appeals to his mostly white male base.

postatomic

(1,771 posts)
18. To make such an odd point requires a little revelant information
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 10:30 PM
Oct 2016
OHIO: In 90.1% of simulations, Clinton led Trump. ALL trending shows Clinton on the rise.

Only flag we'll see is the White Flag Trump starts waving after he loses Florida.
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
20. If our platform had said "NO TPP", We'd be doing better now than in '64.
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 10:54 PM
Oct 2016

The ONLY thing that has kept this race in play at all was the weasel room that was left there. That is ALL Trump has going in the Rust Belt.

We have to learn from this. On economic issues, we MUST be the party of those left out in the cold by the changes since 1981.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
22. You're overestimating voters' intelligence ...
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 07:57 AM
Oct 2016

... especially those who say they support Trump. They don't have a clue about such things... and on the off-chance that they do know what it says, they don't care. It wouldn't make a bit of difference, Ken. Let it go.

Besides, you know as well as I do that the voters who support Trump/Stein/Johnson and who still hate Hillary are...



The Hillary Haters (ie: Trump/Stein/Johnson voters) will never go away and will never change their mind. They'll always be there to nitpick every little thing they can. They'll always be there with their woulda-shoulda-coulda's and if-only's and a basket full of told-ya-so's. Always filled with hate, negativitiy and regret. Always looking on the dark and gloomy side, seeing the worst in people and events.

The Hillary Haters (ie: Trump/Stein/Johnson voters) imagine themselves to be more clever than they really are. They think they're more important and more influential than they really are. They act as if the world revolves around them and their personal happiness. They believe that if THEY aren't happy, then nobody else should be either. They'll do everything in their power to make sure that everyone else is just as miserable as they are.

Pathetic creatures really. Always harping on the same subjects and complaining about the same things over and over ... when they really have no justification so to do. They're just hard-core haters. They're zebras who'll never change their stripes.


KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
24. Amen!
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 09:49 AM
Oct 2016

The idea that any country can manage without trade is ludicrous. And in my mind, those in America who are against them, are like white voters who vote for Trump because they want immigrants thrown out. In other words, they are afraid to lose their privileges. America has had huge privileges on the world stage for decades, as they were a huge super power. In the last couple of decades, the country has started losing those privileges. Unfortunately for those who've had them (white people, men, straight people, cisgender people), the privilege game is a zero-sum game. Fortunately for everyone else, the equality game isn't.

Vinca

(50,168 posts)
23. Actually, it's a big red flag that Ohio voters aren't paying attention.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 08:31 AM
Oct 2016

Trump outsources the manufacturing of all his products and imports Chinese steel and other goods for his construction. He imports low wage workers and won't recognize the newly created union at his Las Vegas hotel. Trump claims to be very wealthy so there is no reason he couldn't have built a manufacturing plant in Akron to sew his ties.

Bear Creek

(883 posts)
25. Brainwashed
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 10:19 AM
Oct 2016

Most of the supporters of Trump I hear everyday only watch Fox news and they think it is to liberal. Say that the Clintons are murders. Think Trump is winning and the polls are wrong. Agree with the sovereign citizens. Want the 14 through 19 admendments abolished. Think science should not be taught in schools. That if you read you are trying to learn and God is against that. That the jobs they have will be in jeopardy if Hillary wins. That putting some innocent people in jail and put to death is acceptable collateral damage. Make fun of anyone who is smart. Ohio is turning into the movie Idiocracy. At least the southern end is. There was a NASA forum here a few years ago about trying to get children into STEM. Told them they have to address basic problem of the children are taught at home not to learn.

LenaBaby61

(6,965 posts)
46. Actually, it's a big red flag that Ohio voters aren't paying attention.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 02:03 PM
Oct 2016

I couldn't agree with you MORE.

tRump exports jobs overseas and pays those workers slave wages. He doesn't pay the workers HERE decent wages and he's anti-union. Hell, he doesn't believe in a working minimum wage, and once said we don't need a minimum wage. So, how in the HELL is he an agent for change and and an agent for JOBS? He isn't. You'd THINK people would actually take the time to READ his platform and check these things out, but they don't. I mean, tRump's sending jobs OVERSEAS, which means he doesn't even believe in the workforce in this country. He continues to purchase Chinese steel on the cheap which means he's not using US steel made by American workers

I was reading an on line article a few weeks ago where a 50 year old male tRump supporter in Ohio was being interviewed post a tRump rally, and the reporter asked him why he was for tRump and he told the interviewer that tRump's for the working person like him and that 'The guy in the White House' doesn't stand up for the workers in this country, gives too money to people who don't work for it, and that tRump will bring our jobs back to Ohio he (Pres. Obama) lost. The reporter asked him if he knew that most if not all of the tRump brand/goods are made overseas and that even the Make American Great Hat he was wearing was made by undocumented workers, and that the US Congress has blocked hundreds of pieces of jobs bills legislation that would help the middle class and stimulate our economy, he told the reporter that the Congress is trying to save our money from being given to people who don't want to work, and that the liberal press is lying on tRump's record, the reporter said if you have time we can look up all I've said on my laptop in my car, the reporter said the guy said something to the effect of that the liberal press lies then he walked away in a huff. I'm sorry, but those type of tRump supporters in Ohio or anywhere who think that way don't have functioning brains and buy into that alt-right spew that tRump is pushing. I mean, the don't take time to look up much of anything concerning tRump or his hiring practices etc., or even check to see what obstructionism IS which is being practiced by the Congress. But, when that guy in Ohio referred to Pres. Obama as 'That man in the WH,' we know what that level of disrespect is all about.

Hate to say it (Not really ) but you can't teach a dumb dog much of ANYTHING

Vinca

(50,168 posts)
49. Many of the people I've seen interviewed sound totally batsh*t crazy. Like that guy.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 02:33 PM
Oct 2016

It's as if they're living in a parallel universe. One without books, magazines and news sources other than Fox.

bulloney

(4,113 posts)
60. That sounds like alot of the people in my part of NW Ohio.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:45 PM
Oct 2016

My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with facts.

I recently read a FB posting from a neighbor who posted that abortions will be mandatory and the Muslim faith will be forced upon us if Clinton is elected. Where she heard that and how she believes it is mind-boggling.

I also have a female HS classmate who's been posting pro-Trump messages on FB, arguing for him regarding the recent news of all of the sexual assault victims who have come out to speak against Trump. Is this a form of Stockholm Syndrome or something?

 

Peaches999

(118 posts)
27. I don't like the realignment on free trade either
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 10:24 AM
Oct 2016

Many people who oppose free trade are not racists and the Democratic Party will lose in the future if they let this election allow for free trade realignment.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
32. Before you predict future Democratic losses,
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:04 AM
Oct 2016

You need to have a Republican Party that rises out of the ashes. If they can rise out of these ashes.

We can improve. I'm not sure they can.

 

Peaches999

(118 posts)
36. Elections ebb and flow
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:40 AM
Oct 2016

Even if we take back the Senate, which is unknown whether we will or not, we'll most likely either lose it in 2018 if we control the Senate or lose more seats if we don't have control of the Senate. The main good that is coming out of this election is that the judiciary most likely be more liberal, but I wouldn't look at the 2016 presidential election as a boon for future elections, even though that I believe Hillary will win reelection in 2020.

I don't think Hillary will pass TPP as she has promised, so the Democratic Party may be making some right steps on trade after the election, especially if Bernie is Budget Chair, but we'all have to see. I think and hope Clinton will be better than Obama on trade.

 

Peaches999

(118 posts)
40. I'm not convinced Hillary will have large coattails
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 01:09 PM
Oct 2016

The Senate is competive because of statistics that the GOP have 21 seats to defend. This is not a wave election like 2008. In fact, if Hillary wins with less than 50% of the vote (so a large 3rd party showing), I don't think there will be any significant coattails.

2018 the statistics of the Senate flip. In my opinion, the Republicans will control the full Congress after 2018. That's not indicative of a dead party. I think we could have a long term rule of Democrats in the executive and Republicans in the Congress and states, inverted from the 1970s and 1980s.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
41. The demographics have changed
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 01:12 PM
Oct 2016

If Republicans don't change it will get more and more difficult for them.

apcalc

(4,461 posts)
28. They don't like the trade deals...
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 10:38 AM
Oct 2016

But will vote for a guy who has his goods manufactured in China? Uses Chinese steel on his buildings?

Ugh

Maeve

(42,223 posts)
56. Fleshing this out a bit...rural Ohio is very conservative
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:28 PM
Oct 2016

Rural Ohio is also white and aging and southern Ohio was (and is) closer in mindset to the Confederacy than many realize. 'Sun-down towns' were far too common back in the day. And the republicans have a lock on the gerrymandered vote--for now.
The cities, less so. We have a lot of higher education and a mix of immigrants Still, many have no idea why manufacturing is no longer the big employer that it used to be and blame trade deals rather than modern manufacturing techniques that require few employees and a shift to building in the South and overseas. . We're losing population relative to the rest of the country---the next time Electoral College votes are re-calculated, expect Ohio to lose one or two at least.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
57. The only constant is change
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:35 PM
Oct 2016

And even change itself is changing. The rate of change, itself, is changing.

Change always makes for winners and losers. It is unfortunate for the losers and we do need to address their issues, but not by looking backward or with hate. The moving finger writes and having writ moves on. The future requires solutions that address current realities.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
31. The polls I have seen show OH is split 50-50.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:03 AM
Oct 2016

So its anybody's game at this point. Get out there and vote.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
33. this Ohioan believes Hillary will win Ohio
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:18 AM
Oct 2016

even in my rural county we saw a lot more early voters, people stopping and asking about my signs, and the over 1400 phone calls I've made show me that people are going to vote for Hillary in droves here in the Buckeye State. I have talked to many Republicans who hate him and are voting for Hillary or not voting at all.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
34. I agree its not the time to give up on winning OH.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:19 AM
Oct 2016

It has been widely reported Trump doesn't have much of a ground game going. It states that a close this isn't good, obviously.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
35. historically, Ohio has tended towards close elections, IAW 270towin 538 has clinton 61.38% to win
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:27 AM
Oct 2016
http://www.270towin.com/states/Ohio
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

What you are seeing with Trump's very slight lead shows how closely balanced the state remains.

After his performance, I am baffled that he is winning any states, but I am biased against totalitarian populist demagogues.

Foggyhill

(1,060 posts)
38. Nafta is at worse Neutral, so we should run policy on perception of harm, not real harm?
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 11:55 AM
Oct 2016

That's the opposite of leadership and gives power to demagogues over actual facts.

Even if it does harm a specific area, it may be very positive for the country overall,
should the US not also think of the greater good?

Better to allow the areas affected, if any, to transition to a new economy than keep them
in a protectionist bubble that at best delays the inevitable.


TPP is no worse than Nafta, it will have overall positive benefits for the US in the long run (and considering China's influence in the region, strategic benefits too). Some industries may be impacted in the medium term; part of passing such bills is insuring those industries and people working in them, can transition to other jobs.

I feel that the opposition to trade deals is a cover for the only allowable xenophobia left.
A paternalistic, father knows best, view of emerging developing nations.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
43. Agreed
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 01:35 PM
Oct 2016

Despite the rhetoric I don't think a convincing case can be made that NAFTA or TPP are the boogeymen they are painted as.

Trade is necessary and with that there has to be treaties of some sort. Protectionism will not work.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
44. Create a boogeyman out of a trade deal then keep scaring people with it. At the same time
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 01:39 PM
Oct 2016

unleash 'trickle-down' economics. When things go wrong blame them on the trade deal so people don't go after 'trickle-down'.

Progressive countries do plenty of trade. They don't do 'trickle-down'.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,780 posts)
50. The takeaway should be that we'll need to fight hard to the end
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 03:52 PM
Oct 2016

Last edited Sun Oct 23, 2016, 05:12 PM - Edit history (2)

Stop buying this "Hillary has it in the bag"nonsense. It's crap. Unless we keep our foot on the throttle and keep Trump on defense, we can still lose this.

Blue collar whites are angry and terrified. It's not just kind or trade deals, but a nation they feel that they built, and where they no longer feel valued or respected. Ohio is close enough to West Virginia to relate to coal miners recoiling at the push for clean energy, and has felt perhaps more than their fair share of the meth and heroin crisis, and see the simplistic motion of closed borders with Mexico solving that.

It's easier for them to accept that the election is rigged than to accept that every person of color and a majority of those with college educations will vote for a woman whom they despise.

We have to continue to sell the notion that a vote for Hillary is a vote for a human decency Trump lacks, and to make the case that the white working class can be a very productive part of a changing America. We need to convey that change is here and Trump's promises of American renewal are hollow.

David__77

(23,214 posts)
51. The Republicans might run a pro-free trader next time.
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 03:58 PM
Oct 2016

The Republican Party being led by a someone who is styled as protectionist might not be repeated for some time.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
58. How do they address this alt right thing?
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:39 PM
Oct 2016

I heard it referred to as an attack from the right today by someone. I don't know that it's exactly accurate to call them the right. It's more accurate to call them a basket of deplorables.

Whatever they are, they are currently a plurality and I don't think they're going away any time soon.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,780 posts)
62. The Republicans will split after the election
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 05:16 PM
Oct 2016

Two parties with commonalities, but enough differences to be different entities. Essentially it will be the Bush/Ryan/Romney wing of the party versus the Trump/Palin nativist Tea Party types. It has to happen. The Bush/Ryan/Romney wing knows that the Know-Nothing wing of the party may be popular, but business will never get behind it in any real way. See Koch, Charles.

The Dems are about three steps behind them, but that will all sort itself out in the coming 18 months.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
64. The Democrats are three steps behind them?
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 05:57 PM
Oct 2016

I don't think so. Our establishment is in line with our base. Sanders isn't all that different from Hillary unless one buys into Republican smears and lies.

I don't buy into that crap and after Hillary Clinton is elected the smears and lies will rightfully fall away. The radical left is marginal.

If the Republicans split then both factions will also be marginal. They will have to adapt. I do think see that happening but I don't see my inability to see it as the end all and be all.

But I do know that we have opportunity here, if we can muster sufficient will.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
59. they support Kasich and Obama is more pro free trade than Clinton
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 04:44 PM
Oct 2016

Pro free trade kasich beat trump in the primary also.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
61. Fucking amazing....6 months ago most on DU were totally against TPP. Now everyone wants it?
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 05:04 PM
Oct 2016

Are there any progressives left on this website?

Go ahead....support that monstrosity that was negotiated in SECRET by ONLY governments and very large corporations. Consumers and the citizenry are completely left out. So do you truly trust that this agreement will benefit any of us or any of the people in those pacific rim countries?

When the middle class gets fucked over royally yet again by another shitty trade deal....don't any of you dare blame the Republicans. You TPP-supporters need to all start looking in the fucking mirror.

 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
63. Why progressives should rescue the TPP trade deal
Sun Oct 23, 2016, 05:29 PM
Oct 2016
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c3c7e0beed7a4e5e86372dbec5dc085d/why-progressives-should-rescue-tpp-trade-deal

The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is under siege, with presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle voicing increasingly protectionist positions. As the general election gets into full swing this fall, the anti-trade rhetoric promises to reach fever pitch, taking down TPP in the process.

While the growing hostility among conservatives has come as a surprise to many, attacks by liberals have barely raised an eyebrow since they are generally more critical of free trade.

Progressives, however, are making a mistake in rejecting the 12-country trade accord. As an economist who specializes in trade and trade agreements – and as a progressive who believes in the importance of environmental protection, workers' rights and shared prosperity – I believe the TPP presents a rare opportunity to rewrite key rules on global trade for the better.

The TPP is less about tariffs and more about creating a coherent global code of conduct for how firms do business in the world. Done right, the agreement would bring important new policy priorities to the negotiating table. It would be a shame to let this chance pass us by.

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