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Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:35 AM

I have a question for the computer experts?

Can 650,000 emails be saved on a hard drive, or after while do they go away? I would have thought so many emails the hard drive would crash?

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Reply I have a question for the computer experts? (Original post)
imanamerican63 Oct 2016 OP
Wilms Oct 2016 #1
Grey Lemercier Oct 2016 #20
Renew Deal Oct 2016 #2
imanamerican63 Oct 2016 #4
Renew Deal Oct 2016 #6
imanamerican63 Oct 2016 #7
RKP5637 Oct 2016 #3
imanamerican63 Oct 2016 #5
lapfog_1 Oct 2016 #8
getagrip_already Oct 2016 #9
lapfog_1 Oct 2016 #10
getagrip_already Oct 2016 #11
lapfog_1 Oct 2016 #12
getagrip_already Oct 2016 #13
Foggyhill Oct 2016 #14
getagrip_already Oct 2016 #17
WhollyHeretic Oct 2016 #16
getagrip_already Oct 2016 #18
Motley13 Oct 2016 #21
B2G Oct 2016 #24
Initech Oct 2016 #22
Orrex Oct 2016 #23
Tracer Oct 2016 #25
Foggyhill Oct 2016 #27
Fahrenthold451 Oct 2016 #28
ColemanMaskell Oct 2016 #29
dembotoz Oct 2016 #30
LineLineReply
Dec 1969 #

Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:37 AM

1. They go away after a while.

 

Usually, someone says, "Boo!". That's what does it.

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Response to Wilms (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:16 AM

20. roflmaooooooo, people on the Tube are looking at me like I am a nutter

 

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:38 AM

2. It has nothing to do with the number of emails and everything to do with how they are accessed

And the amount of free space. Most emails are very small. Outlook often keeps a record of deleted emails. Other programs may do that. Also, it's possible that some of the emails are old and saved.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:41 AM

4. Ok!



It explains it well to not to bright computer user!

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Response to imanamerican63 (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:44 AM

6. Is that 650,000 number real?

I've seen that thrown around. It seems high.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:46 AM

7. That is a high number and that is why I asked the experts!

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:40 AM

3. Hard drives today can be in terabytes. They can hold thousands and thousands of emails with

absolutely no difficulty at all. If you run your own email program, you can just store everything locally, for example, the Thunderbird email program. You can store them forever and ever.



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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:42 AM

5. See my response in #4!

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:46 AM

8. sure

assuming the drive is large enough...

650K x (say) 50K = 32.5 GB which is almost nothing in today's storage world.

and organizing 650,000 emails is not a difficult task.

However, the key is that there would be NO way for a human to actually read and, possibly, respond to 650,000 emails over a 4 year period (time that Hillary was SoS).

Assume you can read and respond (to only a small fraction) of these... and it takes you an average of 1 min to do so... every day for 4 years. You would spend 10,000 hours on this... or 2500 hours per year which would work out to around 10 hours a day, every work day, for 4 years ( 2 weeks for vacation every year).

It is NOT possible for someone to do that and remain sane.

Almost all of these emails would have to be marked (by email rules) as spam (usually designated by either subject line or web address of the originator), never to have been seen by humans.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:48 AM

9. it's possible but.....

Space is the issue. A glance at my email folder shows I have emails ranging from 25MB to 50 kb. If they were all 50kb (unlikely for a porn hound like wiener) then the email would be about 35 GB before compression.

That's too big for a single outlook folder. Outlook can have an unlimited number of objects per folder, but each folder is limited to 2gb. Other email clients are milited by the number of objects as well as size. Plus, performance sucks as you reach the limits.

So these emails will be spread over multiple folders or databases.

Not impossible.

But out of those 650k emails, sources said just over a thousand "may" fit the profile of what they would be interested in. They would primarily be interested in anything sent to/from state.gov, or anything to/from the email server clinton used.

These could just be Houma sending emails to anthony while she was at work. We don't know because the "sources" are conflicting with each other. No official info is available, and that is part of comey's plan. Let crap fill in the voids, because there is no substance anyone would care about.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:50 AM

10. small math error

650K x 50K (avg size) is only 32.5 GB not TB.

but what's three orders of magnitude.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:51 AM

11. I corrected it.....

I deal in TB a LOT. Just a typo.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:54 AM

12. i deal in PBs many many PBs - n/t

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 09:55 AM

13. a PB is just a 4 figure TB... ;)

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:02 AM

14. The average email is a lot smaller than 50k

I CAN write emails the length of a few hundred bytes with the header
Without attachment or images an email is text and compresses tremendously you can fit 10000 compressed text email in a megabyte

It's also like had been deleted, say junk mail, and simply had not been written over by other content
I received about 100k emails a year and i am not in politics
If 2 people share a computer, getting to 600k over a few years is pretty easy

Most laptop disks are not many terabytes even now it doesn't have to be in this case to contain those emails even in a. On compressed form

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Response to Foggyhill (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:10 AM

17. possibly...

but wiener is reportedly a porn hound and sex addict. Houma said she rarely used that laptop, and didn't have an email client on it.

So these were probably wieners emails. And most of those were probably sex spam. And those have a lot of attachments.

Any size you give them though, that is a lot of emails. Nothing whatsoever for a good forensics program to sort and compare. By now, they know exactly what they have.

If comey makes another press conference, he can have details to present any way he wants, and we know what that will look like - suppositions presented as fact. If he doesn't, there is nothing there.

But hopefully the dump the little du birdies have been talking about will have something biggly. The newsweek piece isn't the big dump. t's good, but it doesn't seem to be making the rounds of talking heads yet.

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Response to getagrip_already (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:08 AM

16. 2GB PST file limits are from a long time ago. Current versions of Outlook(2010 and later) can do 50

I wouldn't recommend actually having a PST anywhere near that big but it is possible.

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Response to WhollyHeretic (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:12 AM

18. this laptop is many moons old apparently...

At least 5. That's why I used the 2gb number. But performance begins to suck long before 10gb is reached on most hw and spinning drives (need a LOT of ram and an ssd to move beyond that).

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:45 AM

21. 649,995 are Weiners (junk)




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Response to Motley13 (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:58 AM

24. Please don't write "Wierner's" and "junk" in the same sentence.

 

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:51 AM

22. Depends on how big the hard drive is and whether or not a backup copy was created.

On Outlook you can absolutely save backup copies of e-mails and that should have been done regardless. Any competent IT department will tell you that. But since 8 and 10TB hard drives exist now there's no such thing as having so many the hard drive would crash. If anything the cause of that happening would depend on the age of the server.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 10:54 AM

23. It's easy to lose up to 22 million emails, in fact.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 11:04 AM

25. Another question?

I clear out my email folder as soon as I've finished doing whatever needed to be done regarding those emails. Meaning -- I delete them and trash them.

Are they still out there somewhere other than on my computer? (iMac, using "Mail"

Thanks.

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Response to Tracer (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 11:28 AM

27. When you trash them, they are usually

Recoverable long after you deleted them (until the space is required to write something new). So, if your disk isn't close to being full, deleted emails can linger for years.
There are programs that allow to write random garbage in the free space of your disk to remove this old data once in a while

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 11:50 AM

28. Yes. Especially intergovernmental type emails that don't have lots of jpeg and .mov

650,000 is nothin.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 12:04 PM

29. How long emails remain in your inbox depends on your settings.

I have emails that are ten years old because I use it as a filing system. However, they are not necessarily on your hard drive. That also depends on how it is set up. If you can go to a library or an internet cafe and access your emails from their computers, then obviously the emails are out in cyberspace on a server someplace rather than being on your hard drive.

Moreover, even if you take the precaution of keeping emails on a hard drive on your laptop, most email providers make backups for purposes of disaster recovery.

Beyond that, once you delete an email, it typically does not really disappear, it just goes into a different folder, usually called "archive". That itself is cleaned up (contents deleted) on a schedule that depends on your settings.

Also, whatever amount of disk space or other storage you have available for emails, it determines not so much the number of emails you can keep, but rather the total amount of space you can use expressed as a function of number of emails and size of each email -- roughly equal to number of emails times the average size of an email, if all your emails are around the same size (or normally distributed). So if you have, say, 148,000 million bytes of storage available (148GB as on this cheap Toshiba laptop I'm using), and you dedicate half of it to emails, you might as a ballpark estimate have 750,000 emails of 100,000 bytes each sitting on the hard drive on your laptop itself.

That would be adequate for text-only emails, but pictures take up more space, with large high resolution pictures taking up more space. Some systems have a limit on the size of any individual email, typically 5 million bytes, but many do not have any specific size limit. The mailbox itself typically has a limit, usually less than the 75,000 million bytes in the example, but again that depends on how it is set up. Presumably Mr Weiner stored a lot of photos, so he would have been able to store fewer total emails because of the relatively large space requirements of high resolution photos. Presumably his wife's emails would be more text-based and hence smaller.

If they used a govt-hosted email account then their emails would likely be held on a server someplace rather than on the hard drive on the laptop. It is risky to keep emails on a laptop hard drive because a laptop is so easily lost or stolen, and you would then need to request replacement copies from the backup or archival copies kept by your email service provider, if any.

So on balance, sure it's plausible they found as many emails as they said, and maybe the emails might have been held exclusively on the hard drive on the laptop. It seems unlikely they would do that, but who knows what Wiener would do; he's demonstrated amply that he doesn't exercise the best judgment. My best guess, though, is that there are probably no new Clinton emails there. But there could be.

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Response to imanamerican63 (Original post)

Mon Oct 31, 2016, 01:44 PM

30. i use a cloud based product cause outlook in the past set limits

where i was at previously the constant wars between those who needed the huge email files and the it staff stuck with trying to keep the computers up were continuous.

when i opened my own shop i went with a cloud email for this very reason....
a phrase from the it guy from not too long ago...the more storage you give em the more storage they will fill

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