Holy Crap I Feel Dirty

[Curtis]

Wow. I'm not really sure where to start. I tried having a normal conversation with my sister today via Facebook. She used to be a normal thinking human being. Sure she supported Republicans all her life while I supported Democrats, worked for Democrats, was a campaign manager for some Democrats and even ran as a Democrat. But, she was always grounded. OR at the lease I could talk sense into her. I mean she'd still vote Republican, but she would do so with foundational reasons. Reasons based on reason and research and, well, though. Tonight though? I don't know my own sister.

She started off with the emails. Okay, that was easy enough for me to discuss. Then she turned right around and said how Hillary allowed our national security to fall into the hands of an international ring of pedophiles and sex perverts. I thought she was kidding, so I asked if that ring was run by Donald Trump. She said that no Anthony Wiener gave those secrets out like he did his dick pics. Plus, she heard from someone she trusts, who had heard it from the FBI, that Anthony Wiener had 650,000 emails saved in a folder called "life insurance" on his laptop. And, these emails detailed how Bill and Hillary and murdered their way to where they are in life and how they stole all the money donated to the Haitians to fund her run for the presidency. Oh, and all the press and fact checkling sites know this and we're paid off by Hillary, and that is why they say Hillary is winning and why Trump is a liar. And, her source also says Obama and Biden "unfriended" or "unfollowed" Hillary on Twitter and have cancelled all future campaign events for her because some BIG news that proves she's a murderer is coming out tomorrow.

By this time I was just left stunned. I'm serious. Here I am with Political Science degree, graduate emphasis in elections, in hand and I'm just dumbfounded. I'm stunned into, I don't even know what to call what I was stunned into. It took me 5 hours to put this aside and figure out what to say.

Finally, I calmly told her that what she is experiencing is normal. Human beings tend to go through cycles where we become unhappy with our lives even though our lives are better than ever. We come to believe that our lives are horrible because someone charasmatic comes along and tells us our lives suck. Not only do our lives suck, but our lives suck because of those people who look differently, people who worship differently, people who speak differently, people who love differently or those people who are just plain different than us. It's their fault. So, we just go merrily along with that idea because it's what we want to hear.

That person also tells us that the agreed upon forms of press are not to be trusted. Here. My press is better. People then believe it because it says what they want to hear.

Then it comes to the intellectuals aren't really that smart. I mean the enemy controls the educational system. They go to the educational system only to get indoctrinated. Heck, you're just as smart, no wait, you're smarter because you didn't get your education from the enemy. You know more than the intellectuals especially if you use our websites and information for research.

Then it hit me. It hit me square in the face. The far right Republicans. These Tea Baggers, these Trumpsters, these whatever the hell you want to call them are brainwashed. We have about 39 percent of the American people who are flat out beainwashed. They aren't anymore deplorable than you or I. They are victims of some clever marketing and some clever manipulating. They are true believers. These people will not change. These people won't be beat. These people will not go away. These are the people we need to worry about after election day. Like I told my sister, Hillary will win. Math is the ultimate arbiter in that regard. I tried explaining to her how mathematically Clinton has this won. Of course, my sister even threw math out the window and said that every national poll shows Trump in the lead right now. She claim she is ready to revolt when Trump loses as I am sure a large portion of those 39 percent will.

Hold on. It's gonna get ugly I fear. Brainwashings never end calmly

[pkdu]

1. Sorry Dude - your sister is a fucking moron - its that simple

there are some in my family too. It is what it is.

[Skittles]

38. it's beyond that

there's a HUGE segment of the American population who believe not just things that aren't true, but stuff that is so over-the-top ridiculous their bullshit meter should be kicking in, but it ISN'T. THERE'S A PROBLEM!

[MindPilot]

49. There are a bunch of people who seem to not even *have* a BS meter.

The ability to think critically I think my be something that defines those of us who are a bit farther down the evolutionary path

[Buckeye_Democrat]

2. It's like a religion, I think.

I'm sure that family members of the Jim Jones followers tried to "talk sense" to them too, but most of them were too far gone.

EDIT:

On the other side of faith-based thinking, the vast majority of scientists aren't Republican.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/12/lab_politics.html

A Pew Research Center Poll from July 2009 showed that only around 6 percent of U.S. scientists are Republicans; 55 percent are Democrats, 32 percent are independent, and the rest "don't know" their affiliation.

There's also been studies that indicate conservatives are more prone to fear, less to reason.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds

Peering inside the brain with MRI scans, researchers at University College London found that self-described conservative students had a larger amygdala than liberals. The amygdala is an almond-shaped structure deep in the brain that is active during states of fear and anxiety. Liberals had more gray matter at least in the anterior cingulate cortex, a region of the brain that helps people cope with complexity.

[Curtis]

6. I can agree with that parallel

.

[kimbutgar]

51. More like cult members

I knew someone who was in the Jim Jones cult. She wrote a book about her experiences and she said she was mesmerized by Jones and his rhetoric. When she finally realized after seeing for herself the cruelty of Jones she fled into the jungle before the Jones feed his followers kool aide. She said it is an embarrassment she holds to this day.

Too many Americans are mesmerized by cheeto who is blatantly lying to them. After this election we need to finish cheeto out and expose him for the cretin he is.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

52. Oh, that poor woman.

I'm both annoyed and sympathetic about it.

Seeing the news coverage of the Jim Jones tragedy was one of the scariest things that I saw as a little kid... because I knew it was REAL. My older siblings were previously flustered by how I wasn't frightened by stories of monsters in the closet or under my bed.

[awoke_in_2003]

58. The vast majority of scientists

aren't religious, either.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

59. Yep.

The percentage gets lower the higher up the education level too.

I think Neil Degrasse Tyson was still bothered by 10% among PhD's, or whatever it was, when I saw one of his talks on YouTube.

[Lucinda]

4. Bookmarking to respond later. Good OP!

[Warpy]

8. I don't know why some people are total suckers for propaganda

while a slim majority of us are not. I don't know if it's laziness or if they just aren't interested enough to bother to search the other side of an argument or if they're just so obsessed with DWTS and Kardashians that there isn't room for anything that isn't spoon fed to them by outfits like Pox News.

I do know that a thoroughly propagandized minority started the slaughter in Rwanda, in Bosnia, in Kosovo and that scares the hell out of me. So far, trusting in the essential laziness of the far right freak show has served me well. However, it might not last forever.

Brainwashing weak minds into this kind of rage is not going to end well, I agree completely. Even having the FCC clean out the airwaves is not going to help all that much at this point.

I'm just glad I'm old and neglected to reproduce.

I hope they continue to scream slogans at each other on the internet rather than getting off their behinds to do something about them. Their "million marcher" demonstrations have so far been total busts with only a dozen or so participants showing up, shrugging, and repairing to the closest bar. I hope our luck holds.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. Me too.

"I'm just glad I'm old and neglected to reproduce."

Worrying about humanity's survival has been bad enough. I'd hate to bring children into it.

I had a "close call" with an ex-wife, though. That was back when I was in my 20's and thought I'd like to have kids, but her "last time's a charm" claim about me being the father just DAYS after our divorce turned out to be a lie. She got pregnant by someone else, pretty much like I suspected since her drunken cheating is what lead to the divorce in the first place. I thought that I MIGHT be the father at one point, and I never felt so terrible in my life. I literally cried over the idea that I irresponsibly brought a child into this world with a woman who had so many problems.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. Right wingers are absolutely convinced they are superior and have all the answers....

In the name of Ronald of the Holy Bonzo.

[diane in sf]

10. It's brainwashing. They started in the 80s with am radio and Fox News and continued from there.

The republicans have taken their followers down a delusional rathole. You don't have to be stupid to be brainwashed. People followed their beliefs into media that told them only what they wanted to hear. And it got weirder and weirder in there as time went on--a positive feedback loop. It's happened to people in my family too. It's a cult, they have their own truths, their dog whistles, etc. They will not be swayed by rational arguments or facts, it just hardens them in their opposition.

The upside of this is that it's made them ungovernable by the republican leaders. The base will only allow a real lunatic like tRump to be nominated. And fortunately the majority of the public is too sane to vote for someone that nuts and unqualified. Even George bush had to steal the election twice--he never won legally either time. (Don't take my word for it, google vote suppression, gerrymandering, red shift, 2004 Ohio private Republican held server farms, etc.)

The republicans are pretty much over as a national party, especially if their gerrymandered house districts are redrawn and their vote suppression tactics are defeated.

[MFM008]

11. My spoiled baby sister

Needs an ass kicking like I gave her 45 years ago.

[Bear Creek]

13. Brainwashed

[link:http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/30/media/facebook-fake-news-plague/index.html|
Yes I believe so even a friend I have known for 25 years is under the influence. There is a reason Trump read Hitler. Short sentences, small words, repeatedly said, tell what group your with what they want to hear. They don't believe facts they, don't vett what they take as fact. They see a meme or a YouTube video and it is the gospel truth. They live on cloud coo coo land. It is like somehow they are living in a alternative universe.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/30/media/facebook-fake-news-plague/index.html

[Jon King]

14. Same experience

Except with close friend. For years our kids have grown up together playing the same sport. But we never knew each others politics. Parents seemed so cool. Then recently their kid quit the sport and parents were devastated. So we began talking more personally and we looked at their social media.

We were shocked to find they were as deep into Trump and right wing conspiracies as could be. I mean both were attending every rally in their area, retweeting every filthy lie. Then things just unraveled. Turns out their kid had been hurting themselves, had been posting dark stuff about not wanting to live, for a while. Yet this entire time they continued to push the kid as hard as possible in the sport, totally ignoring calls for help for years.

We also realized they had put everything into the sport, were angry they were living in a trailer, blamed a romantic interest for their kid quitting the sport, calling the other kid filthy names....blamed everyone but themselves for their decisions and lot in life. 100% typical right wing mentality. The deplorables can be right under your nose.

[handmade34]

15. you need a hug

we need to stay calm and give love to those who are caught up in the ugliness of this campaign... stay strong!

[Bear Creek]

17. Off to work

To be surrounded and immersed in the baloney for 10 hrs.

[pnwmom]

18. She's part of a giant cult now. The "Cult of Trump." It's a real thing.

http://www.gq.com/story/the-cult-of-trump

Can’t understand why a loved one would vote for Donald Trump? Let the experts who spend their lives studying cults help break it down.

America was watching, the world was watching, and Donald Trump needed everyone to understand just how dire the straits really were.

“Our convention occurs at a moment of crisis for our nation,” he proclaimed ominously as he officially accepted the Republican nomination for president at the party’s convention in Cleveland last month. It was a grim portrait of America, a once-great nation ravaged by terrorism, “poverty and violence” at home, “war and destruction” overseas.

The solution? Not God. Or patriotism. Or casting aside party loyalty to come together as a nation. No, politicians had rallied under those virtuous banners before, and where had it gotten us? Instead, the newly crowned nominee offered a more messianic promise: that Trump—and only Trump—can get things back on track.

That’s the moment, says Rick Alan Ross, America’s leading cult expert, when he realized Trumpism had striking similarities to the fanatical groups he studies.

Like many moderates in the party, Ross, the executive director of the Cult Education Institute and a lifelong Republican, had watched Trump’s rise with mounting distaste. But Trump’s rhetoric at the RNC—“I alone can fix it”—clicked the pieces into place. “That kind of pronouncement is typical of many cult leaders, who say that ‘my way is the only way, I am the only one,’” Ross says. “That was a very defining moment.”

SNIP

[progressoid]

25. That link is going on Facebook.

thnx

[barbtries]

20. thank you for sharing.

i've given up on the son of a dear friend of mine, who has been dogging me on fb with outrageous, delusional crap about the treasonous democrats, "killary" can't have his guns, said that i am delusional, and that anyone who doesn't know this is not a true american.
i've taken to deleting his responses to my political posts because he cannot be reasoned with and when he claimed that i was not a true american that was it. i've known him since he was BORN.
he claims to not watch fox. where is this coming from?! he's in northern CA/ southern OR. the only link he shared with me was stopthefed.com. I did not visit the page. my theory is the NRA and hate radio, but wow! he is woefully underinformed with regard to actual history.
i just wonder where these people are getting brainwashed. but i agree with you that this is what has occurred; i cannot explain his take on current events otherwise.
of course he does not believe the polls - they're corrupt. doesn't read or follow any kind of corporate news - rigged, corrupt.

I also felt the need to say to him, "you do know that when Hillary wins, it will be because millions more people voted for her than for Trump, right?"
i think of Rwanda. I agree with you. It's going to be ugly. My personal theory is that there will not be as many people conducting violent acts as those people think there will be, though. Terrible incidents here and there, lives ruined, hopefully not too many injuries or fatalities. but i do sadly expect some sort of physical violence. their passion is real even if their beliefs are patently false.

[Curtis]

41. Fox News is sane compared to where they get their news now

They use Breibart, Alex Jones, Washington Times and a multitude of just outright fake news where shit is just flat out made up to get their "news." Fox News really isn't the culprit any longer outside of Hannity.

[barbtries]

50. they set the stage

and primed the populace. so my friend's son has been posting crap today (I delete his posts now), and you're right. they all came from sites i never heard of, and the claims were almost laughable.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

21. No. They aren't brainwashed or victims of manipulation or marketing.

They are supporting politicians who say what they already think and who reflect their existing bigotry and misogyny.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

22. Brainwashing might be the wrong word.

I don't consider most very religious people to be "brainwashed" because that connotes, at least to me, people doing things they didn't originally want to do.

I think most religious people already have a strong desire for immortality.

The influence comes into play by reinforcing the acceptance of over-the-top ideas -- e.g., that Hillary has killed people and the like.

By the way, my older brother's "girlfriend" talks like she might vote for Trump after she volunteered to help the flood victims in North Carolina. I don't want to provide the details of her ordeals at shelters there since it's likely to make some people on DU make accusations of racism (and it's hearsay from me anyway since I wasn't there to observe what happened), but it sure seems like her experiences down there changed her attitude as a white woman. At some point, many people will gravitate toward others who they believe have THEIR best interest at heart.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

28. People who accept over the top ideas without investigating them to at least try to find out

If they are for real are willfully ignorant. They revel in it. They seek politicians who promise to support their existing biases.

Regardless of your brother's girlfriend's supposed experiences (the relevance of which here I don't see) Trump very clearly has no one's best interest at heart except his own. Gravitating toward a total bigot like Trump whose extensive history of screwing people over to benefit himself at their expense is widely documented and available indicates total indifference to reality. It indicates these voters' real priorities - turning the clock back to the time when all people of color knew their inferior place, and women did too.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

30. I totally agree that Trump only cares about Trump.

I think any Russians who are helping him are being very short-sighted too because he'd turn on them quickly if he gets the idea that they're not kissing his butt.

I only brought up my brother's lady friend because she was so upset about some unpleasant experiences down there that she was talking about voting for Trump (presumably as a backlash), not because she had any well-established attitudes along those lines. At least that's my impression after picking her up at the airport (since my brother is blind and can't drive) and hearing her almost hyperventilate as she described what happened. She might come to her senses later.

[Curtis]

42. I can agree with that

Willfully ignorant does seem a better fit

[baldguy]

24. It's plain old fascism.

[Quantess]

26. I bet she watches / listens to Alex Jones infowars.

A couple of my family members are Alex Jones fans. He gets people wound up deep into conspiracy theories.

[Curtis]

43. Yep.

She posts stuff from him quite often. I ask her why we aren't in FEMA camps if he is so right about things. She ignores those questions and starts talking about emails

[Patiod]

54. And why is Obama waiting for SO LATE in his term to steal everyone's guns

We're burning daylight, here Barry, and the gun program still hasn't started yet!!!

[Quantess]

57. My siblings that listen to Alex Jones "Infowars"

are already storing food for the eventual civil war.

One of them is a gun enthusiast, and is convinced that Hillary Clinton will try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. I replied, "it's very unrealistic that the #2 amendment to The Constitution will be repealed."
Surprisingly, my brother seemed beyond sense. He replied "Oh, she's gonna try!!!"

Would you believe... I cannot believe it myself: one of my sister's children is a transgendered female, who is actually voting for Trump!!!! WTF?!

They are Alex Jones fans.

[madaboutharry]

27. Your sister has been brainwashed by the alt-right and the alt-right internet.

It's a pity, but that is how propaganda works. It's a process that over time imbeds lies in people's minds and gets them to accept the lies as truth.

Many books have been written on the topic of Nazi Europe and how "Ordinary Germans" turned into followers of Hitler. It all works the same way. Cults use the same methods.

[Adrahil]

29. I have a similar story.

Not my sister, but somebody I have known for years. I see him only a couple times a year. He's always been a Republican, but a more moderate one, and he told me 6 months ago he would "NEVER" support Trump. He was Kasich guy. Over the last six months, he has transformed. He has started reading Drudge, Breitbart, and even fucking Newsmax. He now believes every fake story about HRC and refers to her as "Killery." And he is all-in for Trump.

I am shocked by the change. We no longer speak.

[blm]

31. Curtis - It IS brainwashing. The lion's share of RW propaganda can be tracked back to the

news sources developed over the last 3 decades by a Korean cult leader, Rev Moon, who started the Washington Times in 1980 and have continued to spawn many RW magazines and websites. Rupert Murdoch began broadcasting news in the 90s with these various Moonie News publications feeding his on-air news readers.

It is no surprise to me that GOP voters like your sister are all singing the same anti-US government hate lyrics written in anti-american songbooks of the very anti-American Korean cult leader - RevMoon.

Perhaps you need to send that revelation to your sister.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bad-moon-rising-john-gorenfeld/1102623743

Bad Moon Rising: How Reverend Moon Created the Washington Times, Seduced the Religious Right and Built an American Kingdom

[Curtis]

44. Always forget

I always forget about Moon. Thanks

[blm]

46. It's the exact same technique. Separate loyalty to family. Separate loyalty to country. No surprise

to me that they all sing from the same anti-US government songbook written for them over the course of the last 35+ years.

Electoral chaos.

[matt819]

34. You're braver than I am

I won't discuss politics with my sister.

[TheDebbieDee]

35. I belong to a FB page where most 90% of the members sound like ur sister.

They spin similar tales of the Clinton's exploits. I would like to counter that of the Clintons are that powerful then the Presidency would be a step down for her, wouldn"t it?

[mercuryblues]

36. I wish there was a single

cause for this. I know 4 Trump supporters. 2 women and 2 men.
Seriously, the women are worse to reason with. 1 believes trump will fix everything. I kid you not. He is a great businessman! She has the uncanny ability to ignore his bankruptcies, p* grabbing, his flippant attitude about nukes, and all his other negatives. But believes everything about Clinton is true. I mean everything. Even shit I had never heard of. She is a beloved relative, but I had no problem setting her off. She moved from a very red state to Vermont because she is on disability and Vermont pays a lot more than red states do. I called her ass on the carpet for that shit and she went bonkers. She loves Democratic legislation, hates Democrats. She has no problem despite having gay family members, that she claims to love, to vote for republicans that have demonized gays and vow to push legislation that would undermine their very lives.

The other woman is my hairdresser. She put a pro Trump meme on FB, I asked her to explain to her daughter why she thinks someone who devalues women so much that he grabs them by the p*. She deleted my comments, I found a new hairdresser. Nope. My money is not going to indirectly going to support that shit.

The men are different. 1 My brother. He doesn't actually support Trump as I think he won't bother to vote. But he is too lazy to find out the truth. He loves fox newz because not only does he get the news, it tells him what to think about it. He is almost always short on money. Not because. as he says "taxed to death" but because he likes to live above his means.

Another is a 20 something that I have known for so long he considers me his aunt. He is open to learning, but just as he seems to get it, his friend pops in with the republican propaganda and he backslides. I give him links to legit news sources, his friend to Alex Jones type crap. The friend tells him MSM is ruining this country and only these people will tell you what is really going on.

[andym]

39. Brainwashing is exactly correct-- through talk radio, Fox,emails, and right wing sites like Breibart

And it is very difficult to deprogram this kind of brainwashing. That's why the extremist GOP is not dead and not going away any time soon, no matter how many articles proclaiming the death of the GOP are written.

[eleny]

45. Did she give any details about how she plans to revolt?

[Curtis]

48. Well, today is interesting as as expected

So, one of her big things yesterday was how some HUGE news was going to break about Hillary and how she killed people to get to where she is. Obama knew it as well as Biden and they had cancelled all of their campaigning for Hillary. This morning was supposed to be the day that she finally went down. My sister was practically in tears of joy over this "news" yesterday.

Well, I already contacted her and asked her about Biden campaigning in Florida today and Obama in Chapel Hill with no new "news" about Hillary. ***crickets***

I'm gonna hound her about this because she said some not so nice things yesterday.

Also, I had already lost my younger sister, mother and a friend over Trump. It's a long story I should write up in another thread. The short version is that in my political work that started in the 80's I worked inner cities in socal and did a lot of work with the United Farm Workers. No one in my family ever wanted to hear it because they never "approved" of my work. Well, last year my younger sister and mother started questioning everything I had done in my life, including running for the Assembly in California myself and working for a State Senator in the 90's and up through getting my education and even being a cop and finally and EMT, which led to me being in an explosion and now suffering from PTSD and TBI with resulting strokes and other problems (of course with no visitation from family while I was hospitalized). Anyway, because I was so vociferous against Trump, they attacked me personally, and started questioning everything I did to my new wife. Luckily, I have most of my news paper clippings and sample ballot when I ran and even tracked down my campaign manager and confidant. My ex-wife burnt a lot of other things I had. But, we don't talk with my younger sis or mom anymore.

I know it won't get to that point with this sister because we're too close for that. But, she has gone full-tilt nutso. LOL

[SuperDem2008]

53. It is the oldest addiction in the book........ PORN.

It ain't complicated.

There is a word for the ruder, the cruder, the more socially unacceptable, the more un-PC the better..... That word is PORN.

Its the oldest addiction in the book....... PORN.

Porn again christian...... PORN.

Yes, some are literally addicted to it.

And, yes, the normal reaction to getting a big dose of PORN is, Holy Crap I feel dirty.

At the risk of repeating myself, it ain't complicated.

[WinkyDink]

56. What do you expect as a reply here? "Thanks for telling us about your very stupid sister"?

[rurallib]

60. We had a similar set to with a "friend" of my wife's

She let me respond to her friend's posts.

I kept telling her to deal with REALITY. One of the differences between Dems and Republicans is that we deal in REALITY and not some rantings from a crazy person's fevered mind.

Don't know if they are "friends" any more - don't care. Just not going to take that crap.

[SuperDem2008]

61. Religion vs Brainwashing vs Porn Addiction

Simple question with a simple truth......

How many times does she hit the porn again christian porn pipe a day?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

63. Well, they will go away eventually as they get old and die.

Not sure where the cut off point is on the brainwashing, but I think it affects more old people and less young people.

Why does your sister like Trump? She seems to not like Hillary for bullshit reasons. It's pretty ridiculous to think every media outlet can be bought by the Clintons. They aren't that rich and not everyone can be bought. I suppose people watch House of Cards and think that is the true story of the Clintons or something. I love the show, but it is fiction. Geeze, people.