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Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:14 AM Nov 2016

Mining Would Be Exciting For Kids: Trumps Secretary Of Education Wants Legal Child Labor

Seriously, WTF is wrong with these people?
Betsy DeVos is a far fringe lunatic. Her husband is a (SC)amway heir, her brother is Erik Price of Blackwater infamy.

http://winningdemocrats.com/mining-would-be-exciting-for-kids-trumps-secretary-of-education-wants-legal-child-labor/

On Wednesday, Trump announced Betsy DeVos as the person he wants overseeing education in this country for the next four years. DeVos is a billionaire conservative donor who supports school vouchers and diverted public funds to religious schools, which would be a major violation of the separation of church and state since tax dollars would flow to “Christian” schools.

But DeVos is even more dangerous because of her ties to groups that want to take poor children out of the classroom and stick them straight into the workforce doing dangerous jobs like coal mining.

Acton Institute is funded by DeVos, and it advocates for the end of child labor laws.


They are on the streets, in the factories, in the mines, with adults and with peers, learning and doing. They are being valued for what they do, which is to say being valued as people. They are earning money.

Whatever else you want to say about this, it’s an exciting life. You can talk about the dangers of coal mining or selling newspapers on the street. But let’s not pretend that danger is something that every young teen wants to avoid. If you doubt it, head over the stadium for the middle school football game in your local community, or have a look at the wrestling or gymnastic team’s antics at the gym.


Here's a link to the Thinktank-
http://blog.acton.org/archives/89837-bring-back-child-labor-work-is-a-gift-our-kids-can-handle.html

The abundant prosperity of the modern age has brought many blessings when it comes to child-rearing and child development, offering kids new opportunities for education, play, and personal development. Yet even as we celebrate our civilizational departure from excessive child labor, we ought to be wary of falling into a different sort of lopsided lifestyle.

Alas, as a day-to-day reality, work has largely vanished from modern childhood, with parents constantly stressing over the values of study and practice and “social interaction” even as they insulate their children from any activity that might involve risk, pain, or boredom. As a result, many of our kids are coming far too late to the arena of creative service and all it brings: dignity, meaning, freedom, virtue, creativity, character, and neighbor love.

Operating out of fear of the harsh excesses of “harder times,” we have allowed our cultural attitudes to swing too far in the opposite direction, distorting work as a “necessary obligation of adulthood,” a gift too dangerous for kids. Working from these same distorted attitudes, the Washington Post recently published what it described as a “haunting” photo montage of child laborers from America’s rougher past.


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Mining Would Be Exciting For Kids: Trumps Secretary Of Education Wants Legal Child Labor (Original Post) Snarkoleptic Nov 2016 OP
This is sick. octoberlib Nov 2016 #1
Fuck it Drahthaardogs Nov 2016 #26
Oh wow, your grandfather was on the frontlines doing all the hard work. octoberlib Nov 2016 #33
It WAS the unions Drahthaardogs Nov 2016 #35
What a sick, sick person! Trump is declaring war on the American evidenced by the people he is smirkymonkey Nov 2016 #2
Exactly!!! "it's like he is assembling the crew of a pirate ship".n/t RKP5637 Nov 2016 #3
Post removed Post removed Nov 2016 #4
... Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #23
Of course, it wouldn't apply to white kids. baldguy Nov 2016 #5
Except it's their kids who are stuck at home, hopeless, jobless . . . MrModerate Nov 2016 #7
holy shit Afromania Nov 2016 #6
This country is regressing so far back it's unreal! ananda Nov 2016 #8
It's horrifying how quickly their rotten deeds can undo progress. Snarkoleptic Nov 2016 #11
Thank for posting about Shorpy eleny Nov 2016 #32
Seems the current batch of conservatives longs for the 1900-1910 era. Snarkoleptic Nov 2016 #34
Back to 1859 and the "land of cotton," I think you mean. - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2016 #47
Pic of my grandpa in the Pennsylvania coal mines--post #36 below. tblue37 Nov 2016 #39
Black Lung Disease puts hair on your chest and makes frail little boys real men! Feeling the Bern Nov 2016 #41
you are wide awake Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #24
6 children died in a school bus crash? That's nothing! neeksgeek Nov 2016 #9
But that's okay, because teenagers crave danger. Chemisse Nov 2016 #14
I blame Obama, er, Hillary :sarcasm: - nt KingCharlemagne Nov 2016 #48
Yes, Newt Gingrich liked that idea too. whathehell Nov 2016 #10
It was Gingrich who suggested The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2016 #51
I know..Totally disgusting, whathehell Nov 2016 #52
DeVos and the Kochs, Daltons and other Plutocrats want to bring back serfdom. Dustlawyer Nov 2016 #12
Mackinac Center for Public Policy funded by DeVos, Kochs: Mc Mike Nov 2016 #13
Those tiny fingers can clean the barrel of the gun.. nt lostnfound Nov 2016 #15
Not that I'm defending this crazy shit, but child labor has always been legal for farm kids NickB79 Nov 2016 #16
This is true. But it shouldn't have been. kcr Nov 2016 #31
Does trump even know what these assholes stand for? Ilsa Nov 2016 #17
The voters in Michigan should've already know what was going to happen. SharonAnn Nov 2016 #20
I think most people in the US, sadly, are too Ilsa Nov 2016 #28
all this shit comes out of the mouths onethatcares Nov 2016 #18
Greed and heartlessness gollygee Nov 2016 #19
Let the Trump offspring lead the way into coal mining work. milestogo Nov 2016 #21
So those are the coal jobs Trump wants to bring back. keithbvadu2 Nov 2016 #22
See my post #36 below. Coal mining destroyed Grandpa's lungs. He went to the mines at age 13. nt tblue37 Nov 2016 #37
Wouldn't she want children going door to door, selling Amway? mascarax Nov 2016 #25
"valued as people. They are earning money" ck4829 Nov 2016 #27
Because to a Republican, people who don't earn money have no value at all as people. nt tblue37 Nov 2016 #38
Republicanism in a nutshell gollygee Nov 2016 #40
God could this get any worse? Initech Nov 2016 #29
Yes. A military draft. Yavin4 Nov 2016 #30
At age 13, my grandfather, who came from Sicily as an immigrant, tblue37 Nov 2016 #36
Amazing pix! Snarkoleptic Nov 2016 #44
From a book about child labor in the mines. nt tblue37 Nov 2016 #50
My mom's grand dad immigrated here from Sicily and worked in PA mines. Mc Mike Nov 2016 #58
I remember "The Molly McGuires." Saw it when it first came out. (I am old.) tblue37 Nov 2016 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Mc Mike Nov 2016 #61
Well, no offense was meant by my last re to your post 59, but I deleted it anyhow. nt Mc Mike Dec 2016 #62
"Valued as people" TYPICAL of RW assholes to think that children and others are not valued Maru Kitteh Nov 2016 #42
Seems to me it's more like... Snarkoleptic Nov 2016 #45
Time for the Senate to shoot this nutbagger's nomination down. n/t duffyduff Nov 2016 #43
KnR Hekate Nov 2016 #46
Would Black Lung be considered a pre-existing condition? kskiska Nov 2016 #49
Medicare... KK9 Nov 2016 #55
minimum wage serfdom here we come. pansypoo53219 Nov 2016 #53
And when the kids get black lung disease and other occupational related disorders, smirkymonkey Nov 2016 #54
Of course the rich folks wouldn't want THEIR kids to prove their value as people tblue37 Nov 2016 #60
Coal mining is just like selling newspapers on the street NastyRiffraff Nov 2016 #56
My Dad owned a one man coal mine, yortsed snacilbuper Nov 2016 #57
Didn't we try that already? MineralMan Dec 2016 #63

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
26. Fuck it
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:51 AM
Nov 2016

I am not fighting anymore. My grandfather was at Ludlow, met mother Jones and fought like hell to unionize because people were dying. Let the Republicans do what they will. We have forgotten and it only took a generation.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
33. Oh wow, your grandfather was on the frontlines doing all the hard work.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 06:17 PM
Nov 2016

Don't these Trump voters in the Rust belt know that it wasn't only the manufacturing jobs but the unions that gave them a middle class lifestyle complete with pensions for when they retired? So discouraging.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
35. It WAS the unions
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 08:54 PM
Nov 2016

In the old days, if one union struck, they ALL struck. They sold out. Trump is going to screw them over bad.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
2. What a sick, sick person! Trump is declaring war on the American evidenced by the people he is
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:25 AM
Nov 2016

appointing to his cabinet. Like John Cleese said, "it's like he is assembling the crew of a pirate ship".

Response to Snarkoleptic (Original post)

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
7. Except it's their kids who are stuck at home, hopeless, jobless . . .
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:04 AM
Nov 2016

. . . and crippled by bad education and nonsensical notions that make them effectively unemployable -- even in industries that have long since disappeared.

Afromania

(2,767 posts)
6. holy shit
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:45 AM
Nov 2016

HOLY!
SHIT!

I can't even begin to formulate a reasonable response to this woman. I read her comments to my entire family and they can't believe it.

ananda

(28,783 posts)
8. This country is regressing so far back it's unreal!
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:08 AM
Nov 2016

Pretty soon, everything we hold dear will be privatized,
corrupted, and unaffordable for most.

Labor unions -- forget them.

Social Security and Medicare -- privatized

Healthcare -- no longer affordable for most

Workers' rights -- think zero

Civil and human rights -- think zero again

And now privatized schools and child labor!

We are losing everything our ancestors fought
and died for!

I hate where this country is going, just to make
the Trumps and their minions rich!

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
11. It's horrifying how quickly their rotten deeds can undo progress.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:36 AM
Nov 2016

Here are some photos of kids at the coal mine "being valued for what they do, which is to say being valued as people. They are earning money."
And as they say over at the DeVos-funded thinktank, "Whatever else you want to say about this, it’s an exciting life."
They also aren't being deprived of "dignity, meaning, freedom, virtue, creativity, character, and neighbor love." (not sure WTF "neighbor love" is)
In sum, we must resist the temptation to coddle kids and refer to child labor as "a gift too dangerous for kids".
I mean, look at the happy faces of freedom!1!1!

http://www.shorpy.com/shorpy

December 1910. "Shorpy Higginbotham, a 'greaser' on the tipple at Bessie Mine, of the Sloss-Sheffield Steel and Iron Co. in Alabama. Said he was 14 years old, but it is doubtful. Carries two heavy pails of grease, and is often in danger of being run over by the coal cars."



A view of the Pennsylvania Breaker. “Breaker Boys” remove rocks and other debris from the coal by hand as it passes beneath them. The dust is so dense at times as to obscure the view and penetrates the utmost recesses of the boys’ lungs. South Pittston, Pennsylvania.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
32. Thank for posting about Shorpy
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 06:15 PM
Nov 2016

He came to mind as soon as I saw this thread. I knew a DUer would post pictures of him and other kids and there you were.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
34. Seems the current batch of conservatives longs for the 1900-1910 era.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 08:28 PM
Nov 2016

No women voting, plenty of child labor, fewer regulations....a hellscape to most is their idea of utopia.
hi: :

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
39. Pic of my grandpa in the Pennsylvania coal mines--post #36 below.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:11 PM
Nov 2016

He started in the mines at age 13. He eventually died of black lung disease.

neeksgeek

(1,214 posts)
9. 6 children died in a school bus crash? That's nothing!
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:30 AM
Nov 2016

Trump will give us headlines like "60 children killed in mine collapse!"

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
10. Yes, Newt Gingrich liked that idea too.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:36 AM
Nov 2016

Let's repeal 100 year old Child Labor laws and go back to the Gilded Robber baron years.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
51. It was Gingrich who suggested
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 02:51 PM
Nov 2016

that the poor kids could be put to work as janitors in the public schools instead of the unionized janitors:

"You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 14, 16 years of age, fine," Mr. Gingrich said. "You're totally poor. You're in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I've tried for years to have a very simple model. Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they'd begin the process of rising."

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/newt-gingrich-thinks-school-children-should-work-as-janitors/248837/

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
12. DeVos and the Kochs, Daltons and other Plutocrats want to bring back serfdom.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:38 AM
Nov 2016

They fund ALEC which lets them pass laws killing unions, think tanks and Astroturf groups designed to fool average Americans to do what they want to screw the 99% and further enrich themselves!

Welcome to fascism!!!

Mc Mike

(9,107 posts)
13. Mackinac Center for Public Policy funded by DeVos, Kochs:
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:42 AM
Nov 2016

" In March 2011, as protests over Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's proposal to effectively end public sector collective bargaining continued to grow in Wisconsin, the Mackinac Center for Public Policy issued Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests for three Michigan Universities, the University of Michigan, Wayne State University and Michigan State University. The request targeted any emails containing: “collective bargaining,” “Wisconsin,” “Madison,” “Scott Walker” or “Maddow.” The requests target labor studies faculty at each school. [57] USA Today wrote that Mackinac's "demands for professors' e-mails about Wisconsin's public employee labor strife is causing an uproar among some who suggest the Freedom of Information Act requests aim to intimidate pro-labor dissenters and stifle academic freedom." [57]

The FOIA request was very similar to one submitted by the Republican Party of Wisconsin to University of Wisconsin-Madison historian William J. Cronon during the same week, after the professor had published a blog post questioning the role of the American Legislative Exchange Council in Governor Walker's anti-union legislation. [58] Paul Krugman of the New York Times wrote " there’s a clear chilling effect when scholars know that they may face witch hunts whenever they say things the G.O.P. doesn’t like." [59]

Like the Wisconsin GOP's request for Cronon's emails, Mackinac's request posed some concerns for university professors because the request could be an attempt to quell political opposition. [60] In a New York Times article, Director of Academic Freedom for the American Association of University Professors, Greg Scholtz, said, “We think all this will have a chilling effect on academic freedom. We’ve never seen FOIA requests used like this before.”[61] "

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Mackinac_Center_for_Public_Policy#Chilling_Academic_Freedom.3F

NickB79

(19,114 posts)
16. Not that I'm defending this crazy shit, but child labor has always been legal for farm kids
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 10:59 AM
Nov 2016

I remember feeding cattle and pigs in the barn when I was 5, of shoveling manure when I was 8, and picking rocks in the field, baling hay, milking cows, collecting eggs, butchering chickens, castrating pigs, driving the tractors, and helping to repair buildings and equipment by the age of 10. Small farms can't operate without all the family members working together, because hired hands can be expensive if you need them more than once or twice a week.

It did teach me a lot of valuable life lessons and instilled a strong work ethic I still have today, but it was also hard, dangerous work sometimes. Apparently my mom kept a journal for the first decade after they started farming, and one entry I found simply says: "July 25, 1983. Nick kicked by a cow today." I guess I was kicked by a cow when I was 3 years old, and my mom didn't think very much of it?!?!

It's not a life I wanted for my family, which is one of the reasons I didn't take over the family farm.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
17. Does trump even know what these assholes stand for?
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:17 AM
Nov 2016

Or do his handlers just minimize their cruel, evil philosophies to get them in place, keeping the ignorant president-elect in the dark?

SharonAnn

(13,767 posts)
20. The voters in Michigan should've already know what was going to happen.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:28 AM
Nov 2016

And those in Wisconsin, too.

It was obvious that he was going to do what the governors in those states, and Kansas, etc. were going to do country-wide. And since they can do it on a grander sacale, the theft of tax money for private benefit will be on a grander scale.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
28. I think most people in the US, sadly, are too
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:52 PM
Nov 2016

incapable of critical thinking. Unless someone draws a line from points A to B to C, they can't get to C. Instead, they are just distracted by hype and fuelled by hatred.

onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
18. all this shit comes out of the mouths
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:18 AM
Nov 2016

of people that never dug a footer, broke a concrete slab with a sledge hammer, pushed a lawnmower over a 1/4 acre lot, shoveled coal into a shaker.

Nope, they are the gilded elite and think all this builds character in the peons.

Will America accept or reject this crap is the next question.

keithbvadu2

(36,371 posts)
22. So those are the coal jobs Trump wants to bring back.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:31 AM
Nov 2016

With reduced safety regulations and below minimum wage as well.

How many of her progeny will enjoy such 'dignity'?

mascarax

(1,528 posts)
25. Wouldn't she want children going door to door, selling Amway?
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:49 AM
Nov 2016

Another sales channel! Yes, sarcasm.

This is all just so very bad. Not sarcasm.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
36. At age 13, my grandfather, who came from Sicily as an immigrant,
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:07 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:46 PM - Edit history (1)

started working in the coal mines in Pennsylvania. These are pictures of him at age 18, still in the mines:






He died of black lung disease in 1969.

If this jerk thinks mining is all that much fun, why doesn't he do it?

Mc Mike

(9,107 posts)
58. My mom's grand dad immigrated here from Sicily and worked in PA mines.
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 12:20 PM
Nov 2016

He'd worked in sulfur mining in Sicily from age 7.

In Yatesboro, he was a spokesperson for the immigrant miners and met with John L. Lewis on their behalf, right before WWI.

There are 2 good mine organizing movies, The Molly Maguires about Irish Miners organizing in Shamokin county, PA in the late 1870's, and Matewan, a John Sayles movie about the war between WV mining townspeople and the Baldwin Phelps agents hired by the coal operators in Mingo County right after WWI.

The Maguires movie shows child laborers acting as breakers, busting up the big lumps of coal to make it more shippable and easier to burn.

The Matewan movie shows how the coal company imported Italian immigrants and Southern Blacks to work in the mines, to try and divide and conquer the workers and prevent union organizing.

Both good movies.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
59. I remember "The Molly McGuires." Saw it when it first came out. (I am old.)
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:25 PM
Nov 2016

My grandfather lived in Pittston, PA. He immigrated from Montedoro, Sicily. Where did your grandfather come from in Sicily? Maybe we are related.

Response to tblue37 (Reply #59)

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
42. "Valued as people" TYPICAL of RW assholes to think that children and others are not valued
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 09:56 PM
Nov 2016

as people unless they have money or are making money.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
45. Seems to me it's more like...
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 11:54 PM
Nov 2016

they're not "Valued as people" unless they are exploited (and their childhood stolen) by wealthy X-tians.
DeVos is a major jeebus freak, as is her brother Erik Prince.
They use religious dogma to control others and enhance their wealth.

KK9

(81 posts)
55. Medicare...
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 06:43 PM
Nov 2016

Black Lung Disease is one of the few diagnoses that will qualify one for Medicare coverage regardless of age.

Of course, Paul Ryan and friends have plans to destroy Medicare too.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
54. And when the kids get black lung disease and other occupational related disorders,
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 05:12 PM
Nov 2016

well "eff them" because those are just hazards that go with the territory, right you heartless beyotch? In your world, they won't deserve decent healthcare either.

tblue37

(64,982 posts)
60. Of course the rich folks wouldn't want THEIR kids to prove their value as people
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 11:26 PM
Nov 2016

or share in all that exciting fun by working in the mines.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
56. Coal mining is just like selling newspapers on the street
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 06:57 PM
Nov 2016
Whatever else you want to say about this, it’s an exciting life. You can talk about the dangers of coal mining or selling newspapers on the street. But let’s not pretend that danger is something that every young teen wants to avoid. If you doubt it, head over the stadium for the middle school football game in your local community, or have a look at the wrestling or gymnastic team’s antics at the gym.


An exciting life. The greed and stupidity is breathtaking. This alone ought to disqualify DeVos.

yortsed snacilbuper

(7,939 posts)
57. My Dad owned a one man coal mine,
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 09:47 PM
Nov 2016

when I was little and I helped him work in it, he had a two man saw and I would help him cut locust posts to hold up the roof, he had a hand drill and would drill a hole in the seam and tamp in dynamite and the a blasting cap, we would hide around the corner and he used a nine volt battery to blast the coal out (fire in the hole), we would use a wheelbarrow to haul the coal out to his 1950 Chevy pickup truck and then take it to be weighed, he got $5.00 a ton, it was custom coal for home furnaces. When he finally quit working it the EPA made him blow up the entrance.

My dad started working in coal mines when he was a little kid and had every bone in his body broke in a mining accident once, he died from black lung disease.

My Grand Pap came from Wales and was a Welsh coal miner in the old country.

All the guys in my home town voted for trump, they think he’s going to bring coal back, it’s sad.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
63. Didn't we try that already?
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:10 PM
Dec 2016

Here's a photo of some "breaker boys" in PA.


Here's another photo from PA showing excited children in a coal mine:

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