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Thu Dec 1, 2016, 03:47 PM

This is a MUST READ. ThinkProgress issues a warning to all of us.

It's a fairly long read but very worthwhile. It's full of information about Trump and what could happen to our nation with him at the helm.

The Democratic Party is screwing up its opposition to President-elect Donald Trump. They can’t help it.

The reason why is that democrats — that is, small “d” democrats, referring broadly to people who believe in democracy — are ill-suited to address the threat posed by Donald Trump.

Those of us who agree with the Declaration of Independence that governments derive their legitimacy from the consent of the governed are poorly equipped to resist Trump. Those of us who agree that governments exist to secure “certain unalienable Rights” are fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.

We have brought a sheet of parchment and a set of abstract principles to a knife fight. We’re going to get cut.




https://thinkprogress.org/democrats-will-botch-the-resistance-against-trump-1f8c211c7b68#.1i9wiso6u

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Reply This is a MUST READ. ThinkProgress issues a warning to all of us. (Original post)
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 OP
Post removed Dec 2016 #1
handmade34 Dec 2016 #2
Raine1967 Dec 2016 #3
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 #4
Cosmocat Dec 2016 #6
gilpo Dec 2016 #36
el_bryanto Dec 2016 #5
leftstreet Dec 2016 #7
TeamPooka Dec 2016 #8
hamsterjill Dec 2016 #24
riversedge Dec 2016 #9
Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #10
MontanaMama Dec 2016 #11
jalan48 Dec 2016 #12
TonyPDX Dec 2016 #13
Turbineguy Dec 2016 #14
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 #15
Turbineguy Dec 2016 #18
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #28
KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #34
Javaman Dec 2016 #16
jmg257 Dec 2016 #17
crosinski Dec 2016 #19
liberal from boston Dec 2016 #20
McKim Dec 2016 #21
radical noodle Dec 2016 #22
DRoseDARs Dec 2016 #23
Doremus Dec 2016 #25
crosinski Dec 2016 #27
DinahMoeHum Dec 2016 #26
Mountain Mule Dec 2016 #29
flamingdem Dec 2016 #30
niyad Dec 2016 #31
Maru Kitteh Dec 2016 #32
Tatiana Dec 2016 #33
Solly Mack Dec 2016 #35

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:07 PM

2. K&R n/t

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:14 PM

3. This was heartbreaking to read and you are correct -- it's a MUST READ.

All of which is a long way of saying that the tools of American liberalism, and the Democratic Party that relies on these tools, are poorly suited to the particular threat Donald Trump presents to democracy — and that the Republican Party frankly began to present almost immediately after Barack Obama took office. By propping up Trump’s constitutional legitimacy despite his democratic illegitimacy, Clinton and Obama appealed to the rule of law. But what happens when the rule of law is turned against itself?

What happens when the president may owe his victory to a longstanding Republican campaign to undermine the sanctity of our democracy? And what happens if that president perfects that campaign?

The biggest danger of a Trump presidency and a Republican Congress isn’t that they may enact terrible policies. It is that they might entrench their own rule in ways that cannot be easily undone.


I am still in such a state of disbelief that it's hard to read and comprehend that we are here. We are really here. It's not a drill, It's not Orwell or Sinclair Lewis -- this is our reality.

All the work we did to try to prevent this from happening -- the people we needed to understand didn't listen.

My heart is broken, my spirit is wounded but I won't let either of them wither away. Complacency isn't an option.

Thank you Peggy.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:16 PM

4. I'm heartbroken and scared too, my dear Raine...

But as you said: "Complacency isn't an option."

It sure isn't.

He and all his ill-advised cronies, must be stopped.

You're so very welcome...

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:25 PM

6. Even our team really does not get that we are now a full on

Authoritarian, fascist state.

And, this country has CHOSEN that, willingly.


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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 02:24 PM

36. Some have..

Most haven't. 3/4 of us did not vote for this.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:23 PM

5. That is well worth reading - thanks for the link! nt

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:38 PM

7. DURec

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:42 PM

8. Democrats need to start fighting Republicans the way Republicans fight Democrats.

Time to go nuclear.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:25 PM

24. Amen!!!

You cannot play nice with a bully who doesn't play by the rules. You've got to learn to outsmart them and get (unfortunately) as mean as they are.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:46 PM

9. These are the things we must correct...





It will take time and a strong will--the will of many.


https://thinkprogress.org/democrats-will-botch-the-resistance-against-trump-1f8c211c7b68#.6dkq4ko6w


...............If liberal democracy survives these next four years, then liberals must confront the fact that our current system of government has failed. We cannot have a system that makes a president out of the guy who came in second in the presidential election twice in sixteen years, or that allows lawmakers to suppress the vote of their opponents’ supporters, or that allows those same lawmakers to effectively choose who gets to vote for them, or that allows the minority party to sabotage a president’s entire agenda and then campaign on the fact that nothing gets done, or that places the entirety of American democracy at the mercy of a political court.

Yet we must also balance this terrible new knowledge with Justice Marshall’s broader lesson that the rule of law depends on universal rules. In the state of nature, the strong man always prevails. It is only by subjecting everyone to the same laws that the rest of us can hope to hold this strong man accountable for his own transgressions.

What the rule of law does not depend on, however, is the specific set of rules we currently operate under. “Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive” of basic human rights including the right of self-governance, the Declaration of Independence proclaims, “it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.”

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:57 PM

10. of course they will-- they are Dems, not a organized political party

 

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:18 PM

11. This is heartbreaking and terrifying.

It seems it will take a full on revolution to walk this back. If it can be walked back at all.

The enmeshment of the trump (sorry - I won't capitalize his name) organization and the trump administration took a week. I find it hard to believe that orange hitler had the brains to do this on his own and it makes me wonder who, exactly, are the sinister forces in play. We can guess but it seems that this has been in the works for a while. It is all running so seamlessly antd he MSM is greasing the skids.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:20 PM

12. Thurgood Marshall, (mentioned in the article) was one of the great American Justices.

While head of the NAACP in the 40's he would take cases in the South (he was living in NYC then), where young men had been accused, tried, and convicted of murder. "Devil in the Grove" is a great book that describes such a case in Florida. He looked for missteps by the prosecution so that the case could be appealed, eventually to the Supreme Court where the defendants stood a better chance for reversal, thus saving them from the electric chair. He saved many lives while risking his own. The KKK waited for him on the roads from towns he litigated in, hoping to catch and probably lynch him. He's an inspiration to all Americans.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:22 PM

13. If only we would fight with the determination our circumstances call for!

Jeff Merkley, Ron Wyden, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren have the fight in them. Maybe Chuck Schumer will surprise us, too. Many will sheepishly stand with a wet finger in the air, waiting for the safest position they can take.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:28 PM

14. In the beginning.....

Hitler did some good things for the German economy. There are circumstances where Authoritarians have an edge.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:30 PM

15. That is true. And then the true agenda appears and all the good disintegrates. n/t

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:37 PM

18. I think the GOP will be more subtle.

Overall life expectancy will drop, the death rate will rise. Homelessness will increase. Ordinary people will struggle more. Suicide rates will rise. "Senseless" gun violence will rise. Food insecurity will get worse. Greater chance of an epidemic. In the mean time, life will appear normal to those not directly affected. There will be lots of entertainment. People must focus on the TV screen and not look out their window.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 08:08 PM

28. I think you're right. Another way we'll be screwed in through the lack of consumer protections.

Businesses will be able to get away with anything and we will have no way to fight back.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 02:04 AM

34. What "good things" did Hitler do for the economy? - nt

 

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:30 PM

16. nothing new to me.

I have been saying this for a long time.

early on, when snuffles started his hyperbolic run for office. I said to my gf, if we don't get down in the gutter with that halfwit, we will lose.

but then Obama give us the famous line, "they go low, we go high", I knew then we were dead.

and here we are.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:35 PM

17. Excellent read...The author's best solution...

“Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive” of basic human rights including the right of self-governance, the Declaration of Independence proclaims, “it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.”

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 05:47 PM

19. "...liberals must confront the fact that our current system of government has failed."

Damned powerful.

Thank you for posting.

I was just going over a list of things to stockpile in our small dugout 'basement' while thinking of all the ways the world could go to hell in a hand basket. My husband and I are in our sixties. Our version of the world coming to an end, is the world ACTUALLY coming to an end in a firestorm of nuclear bombs. That's the vision we grew up with.

I remember sitting up all night with my mother during the Bay of Pigs. She couldn't stay awake, but I DID, with my eyes glued to the tv screen, waiting for the end of the world. I was six at the time, and I was completely aware of what was happening. Doomsday reactions from us baby boomers are damned hard to overcome.

But this is so much more slimy. This is the type of thing bullies do to get their way.

"Mrs. Applegate said Bobby could go to the bathroom whenever he needed to because he's sick, so it's only fair that we ALL get to go to the bathroom whenever we want to!!!!!!" And so on and so on until the bullies rule the entire system.


We let the bullies use our own rules against us! Insidious little bastards. I SO agree that we have to stop letting them contort our own rules to suit their own purposes! We NEED Dems who carry a copy of the Constitution AND a switchblade!!!!! I will SO vote for any Dem who shoots first and asks questions later.

And I'm still going to put a weeks worth of drinking water in the basement. It'll just make me feel better.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:05 PM

20. Trump

Thank you California Peggy. Link below is speech by Irish lawmaker about what has happened in England, Europe & now America has elected a Fascist.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/irish-lawmaker-stand-up-to-donald-trump_us_5830b4cfe4b058ce7aab802d

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:06 PM

21. Just About to Write to My Congresspersons on This Very Topic

I had a draft of a letter to my congressional delegation that asks them to not cooperate or legitimize "President" Trump and his congress.
We must not normalize or legitimize this.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:09 PM

22. Bookmarking to read later

Thanks CaliforniaPeggy!

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:17 PM

23. Pandora's Box right there...

 

Trump, his cabinet, his supporters, indeed the whole of modern conservative thought both here and abroad represent an existential threat to the continued viability of not just US democracy but all of Western democracy. Their views on governing have become so warped these last few decades that one wonders which side of a sword or musket the Founding Fathers would place them on.

We are fast reaching a tipping point and could well see the end of the Great Experiment, ripped apart by sectarian violence cleaved along partisan lines. We've been very fortunate these past 240+ years that we've not experienced quite the same level of internal strife that most nations have throughout history. Perhaps our luck is running out. Some people fantasize about revolution, but the reality is bloody and awful. When academics, peaceful protestors, or even just citizens demanding their rights be respected equally are viewed and treated the same as criminals, terrorists and traitors by those with power and wealth, thousands of years of history shows it does not end well for anyone. This is a lesson Humanity never learns and unfortunately, we now live in a deeply interconnected world. I had hoped I wouldn't live to see the day it all comes crashing down again. I fear I will.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:35 PM

25. We need to be in the streets. Anything less is useless.

Keyboard activism can take us only so far. We need to be in the streets, organizing general strikes and more.

I tell everyone I can that the day is nearing when we're going to have to get into comfortable shoes and out of our comfort zones.

They're coming after SS and Medicare if we don't stop them. Start thinking about what you will do -- gripe about it or do something about it? It's totally up to us.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 07:06 PM

27. I hear ya, we'll be there in our walking shoes. (With our canes.)

We're still blown back on our heels right now. Never thought we'd see this day come, but here we are. We're not buggin' out, though. We're stickin'.

Strange times my friend.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 06:50 PM

26. There ARE ways to remove these pigs from office. . .

. . .unfortunately, they're not fit to be mentioned here further.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 09:18 PM

29. Kick!

Excellent analysis. We need to understand that we no longer live in a democracy and act accordingly.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 09:27 PM

30. We need strength!

This is a brutal fight.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 11:22 PM

31. k and r and bookmarking for later, with thanks.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 01:08 AM

32. kick

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 01:15 AM

33. We must oppose this pResident, always, on everything, no matter what.

I mean everything -- nominees, budgets, anything legislative needs to be filibustered and strongly opposed. Our problem is that we don't know how to truly be an opposition party. If this doesn't teach us anything, we're very close to being finished.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Original post)

Fri Dec 2, 2016, 02:53 AM

35. Each and every time government is allowed to get away with any abuse of power

and any and all crimes, that undermines our democracy.

Pretending those abuses and crimes are mere policy differences undermines our democracy.

Once government - and the people who make it up - knows what it can get away with, there will be those who keep pushing to see what else they can get away with.

Behaving as if those who advocate against our democracy are good people who simply disagree with us undermines our democracy.

You hold the door open for the corruption of democracy, then don't be surprised when someone like Trump waltzes in and finishes off what is left of our democracy. It took a beating under Bush and it hasn't recovered yet.

I do believe in those abstract principles - but I also believe in jailing Presidents (and their cabinet) who break the law. We have laws for a reason. We have checks and balances for a reason.

Use them - or they become meaningless - and people like Bush, Cheney, and Trump (and the rest) become more powerful. They strut in on the red carpet laid out by those who think "it can't happen here" if we just all pretend what did just happen didn't really happen, while patting ourselves on the back for the peaceful transfer of power. Never mind that so-called peaceful transfer is an illusion being propped up for the sake of democracy even while it completely destroys our democracy.

I do not believe in playing nice with elected officials who break the law or who otherwise threaten our democracy with their actions or their words. This includes members of Congress, as well as justices of the SCotUS, who have shown that lifetime appointments do not keep them from being beholding to influences and prejudices that undermine our democracy.

I believe in bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

But I have no power.

K&R








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