GOP is making the same mistakes they made in '98 and '99

[scheming daemons]

Bogus trumped up charges against the administration, American people see it for the political stunt it is, President sees his poll numbers rise.

Obama, who has a 45-50% approval rating, gives middle finger to GOP congress, that has a 15 percent approval rating.

This won't end well for Issa or the GOP.

And Romney can't be happy that the focus is off the economy for several news cycles.

[JoePhilly]

1. Agree on all points.

[Scootaloo]

2. And what happened in 2000?

I wouldn't bank on your conclusion here, scheming.

It's not enough that the GOP is "making mistakes." We can't expect them to hang themselves, no matter how much rope we give them.

[Woody Woodpecker]

4. If the police would have arrested the Brook Brothers rioters

and Kennedy ignored the GOP pleas to intervene, then Al Gore would have been enjoying his time as an elder statesman after his successful 8 years of prosperity.

[Scootaloo]

7. Look deeper.

The entire country could plainly see that the vote was stolen. This fact is mainstream in our culture, despite the hemming and hawing of Republicans over it. it's a known element of the 2000 elections.

There were some protests, but by and large, our country sat on its thumb and watched a thief appointed by his his party's judges stroll into the white house, even while fully aware of what had just happened. A large part of the campaigning against Gore in '99 / '00 was that he would be a "Clinton rehash." Even people on the left were buying into this, which is the only way that Nader got enough votes to - rightly or wrongly - accuse him of being a "spoiler."

All those "mistakes" of the GOP were still VERY effective at poisoning the well and making their vote theft acceptable even though people saw it plain as day.

So my point stands. We can't just sit by and hope that they'll destroy themselves - We have to shove everything back at them and make sure it's kept solely on their shoulders, on their name.

[RobertEarl]

15. exactly

It was the Dems who screwed up and played the game and lost.

Are we going to play that game again or shut it down and roll over the creeps?

[scheming daemons]

5. Clinton left office with 60% approval

Gingrich had resigned in shame.

The fact that Gore refused to run on Clinton's record, yet still won by 500,000 votes, makes my point.

[jeff47]

9. What happened in 2000 is Gore followed the Republicans

Conventional (aka Republican) wisdom was that Clinton was toxic because of "all the scandals". So Gore ran away from Clinton and his record. So much so that he chose Lieberman as VP to prove how not-Clinton he was.

And that made it close enough to steal.

[zappaman]

21. Exactly! n/t

[libinnyandia]

13. The left was divided.

[NoGOPZone]

27. A partisan Supreme Court decision nt

[BumRushDaShow]

3. They did it in '94 - '95

with the government shutdowns too and it looks like they may want to try a redux of that, the faux charges, AND yet another "debt ceiling crises".

They seem to want to go out with a big finale.

[badtoworse]

6. I doubt that many voters know the facts of F &F.

Obama is getting personally involved in it and the matter is going to become high profile.. 98 & 99 was about a BJ. Hundreds of people died because Holder allowed F&F to continue - big difference in my view.

This issue is not going away. Holder needs to resign.

[scheming daemons]

8. Why should he resign for shutting down a bad Bush program?

Your argument, which is full of rw talking points, makes no logical sense.

Bush DOJ created bad program.
Obama DOJ ended bad program when they discovered it.

Open... shut. You and Issa lose.

[badtoworse]

11. That is not true.

F&F continued under Holder until 2011. Holder knew about for at least a year and didn't shut it down until it blew up. Sorry, those are the facts and that's why he needs to go.

[uponit7771]

10. Like Issa you give few details into why Holder should resign

[badtoworse]

12. Many people died because of an operation that he was aware of

That operation was illegal under both Mexican law and US law. The Mexican government was not informed that the guns were being allowed across the border.

The whole thing stinks and Obama citing Executive Privilege makes it look like he is defending it.

[jeff47]

14. Yes, I'm sure the Republicans will stop right here if they get Holder to resign

There won't be endless investigations in desperate search for anything to embarrass the White House.

Just like during the Clinton administration, complying with Republican demands for information and people resigning to "save the White House some embarrassment" will cause the investigations to end. Just like they did in the 90s.

Oh....that didn't happen. Perhaps we shouldn't fall into the same fucking stupid trap a second time.

The proper response is to investigate Issa for arson. There's some suspicious fires in his past, and we just want to make sure that nothing illegal happened. If Issa would just comply with this investigation, we can get the matter settled very quickly.

[badtoworse]

17. OK, let's say you succeed in tarnishing Issa...

Big deal! Obama will get badly tarnished if he's tied to F&F. The Republicans would take that trade in a heartbeat.

[jeff47]

18. Sure, that's why the Republican leadership has been having Issa back off.

Oh wait...that doesn't make any sense either. This is Issa's witch hunt, not theirs. Threatening Issa would be quite effective at getting Issa to back off.

Issa's on a witch hunt. Complying with the witch hunt is the way you keep it going. If you'd prefer to not go back to the Clinton presidency, how bout McCarthy? That continued until people finally said "no more".

We are much better off saying "no more" now.

F&F has no traction, and it's trivial to deflect the program. "It was started by Bush. Why is Congress wasting all it's time on this and ignoring jobs?"

The strategy you propose is dumb. We know it will not work. It is stupid to follow a strategy we know will not work.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. It seems to me

that Fast and Furious basically had good intentions. Supplying guns to drug dealers to try to trace the possessors who commit murder is at least a plan to try to stop the killing. Even if U.S. supplied guns are killing people, does anyone seriously believe that if those guns were not provided that the murders would not have happened with different guns? The blame lies at the foot of the Republicans and the very lax laws in Arizona regarding the acquisition of guns. Whether the guns were acquired through Fast and Furious or by merely visiting a gun store and taking them across the border, the same people would still be dead.

[badtoworse]

25. The the average voter, Executive Privilege = We're hiding the truth

People who didn't care about F&F before are going to want to find out about it. Good luck spinning that.

[jeff47]

29. I'll just keep reminding you that this is exactly what happened during the Clinton admin

Democrats panicked at Republican bullshit investigations and people quit for the exact same reasons you are panicking about.

The public didn't give a damn. Republicans created new investigations out of nothing. More Democrats panicked and the public continued to not give a damn.

You demand we follow the same, failed course. Why? You know this will not work. So why do it? Why should Obama (50% approval) fear a rebuke from Congress (13% approval). The public HATES Congress. Running against Congress would be FANTASTIC for Obama.

Stop panicking, find your spine, and start talking about things that matter.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. Has the murder of the border agent been traced to a specific weapon involved in the program?

I've tried googling the question and I can't find conclusive evidence on the issue. If there isn't proof, are we dealing with speculation or not?

[badtoworse]

24. I'll see what I can find out.

Ask the question in the Gungeon; the issue has been discussed there in great detail and I'm sure someone will know the answer.

[Berlin Expat]

20. Let's take a little look at Rep. Issa

shall we?

This guy has rather nefarious past; read the following, and then tell me whether you think this guy (Issa) shouldn't be in a some sequel to "GoodFellas" or perhaps the next installment of "The Godfather".

1982: Issa Suspected, But Never Charged, In Arson Incident At Manufacturing Plant. According to the Los Angeles Times: "A suspected arson fire ripped through [Issa's Ohio] manufacturing plant in 1982. No one was ever charged in the fire, but authorities were troubled by a dramatic escalation in the facility's fire insurance just weeks earlier. Even before the blaze was put out, investigators began peppering Issa and his partner with 'crazy questions' regarding their whereabouts before the fire, Issa recalled." [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis, emphasis added]

Prior To Fire, Issa "Boosted" Fire Insurance And Removed A Computer From The Premises. According to the Los Angeles Times: "Weeks before the fire, Issa and [business partner Miles] Hunsinger boosted their fire insurance from $ 100,000 to $ 462,000 on property stored for other companies...At the same time, a separate company that contracted with Quantum to outfit bug zappers increased its insurance to $ 400,000, and, according to an insurance report, one investigator was 'concerned about the coincidence.' Fire investigators also noted that a computer was taken off the site eight days before the fire, 'allegedly to be reprogrammed' by Issa's lawyer, and that business blueprints were put away in a safe -- which was 'not previously done before.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis]
"Suspicious Burn Patterns" And "Out Of Normal Practice" Behavior Alerted Investigators. The Washington Post reported: "Investigators reported 'suspicious burn patterns' and said the fire may have been set. A company bookkeeper, Karen Brasdovich, also told them that computers and records had been removed from the site days before the fire for no clear reason. 'It was totally out of normal practice,' she said in a telephone interview last week." [Washington Post via FTLComm.com, 7/8/03]

AC Custom Fire: Flammable Liquid Had "Been Poured On The Only Area Not Covered By Fire Sprinklers." The Los Angeles Times reported that "seven months after Issa took control," a fire broke out at the "Quantum manufacturing plant." "Case files from Maple Heights, the Ohio fire marshal and insurers pointed repeatedly to the likelihood of arson in the blaze, which officials estimated caused $ 800,000 in damage. Although an accident could not be ruled out, the uneven and unnatural burn patterns made the blaze 'suspicious in nature,' the state concluded two months later. Flammable liquid appeared to have been poured on the only area not covered by fire sprinklers, investigators found." [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis, emphasis added]

Former AC Custom Executive Claimed Issa Intimidated Him With A Gun. According to the Los Angeles Times: "One of Issa's first tasks as the new boss [of AC Custom] was to remove an executive named Jack Frantz. According to Frantz, Issa came into his office, placed a small box on the desk and opened it. Inside, he said, was a gun." [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis]

Issa Allegedly Used Intimidation To Fire Executive Frantz. According to the Los Angeles Times, Frantz claimed, "'He just showed [the gun] to me and said 'You know what this is?' Issa invited Frantz to hold the gun at one point and told him he had learned about guns and explosives during his military days, Frantz said. Because he was about to be fired, Frantz said he saw it as 'pure intimidation.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis]
Former AC Custom Bookkeeper: "It Was Pretty Terrifying." According to the Los Angeles Times: "The bookkeeper, [Karen] Brasdovich, also recalled Issa having a gun at the company that day. 'It was pretty terrifying,' she said." [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis]
Issa On The Incident: "Shots Were Never Fired." The Los Angeles Times reported: "Issa said, 'Shots were never fired. If I asked Jack to leave, then I think I had every right to ask Jack to leave...I don't recall having a gun. I really don't. I don't think I ever pulled a gun on anyone in my life.'" [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis]

Issa "Twice Arrested In 1972 On Weapons Charges." According to the San Francisco Chronicle: "Issa was twice arrested in 1972 on weapons charges -- once in Ohio, once in Michigan." [San Francisco Chronicle, 7/2/03]

Issa Was Convicted Of "Possession Of An Unregistered Handgun," Paid Fine, And Served Probation. According to the San Francisco Chronicle: "When Issa was attending college in Michigan, was fined $100 and put on three months' probation after being arrested for possession of an unregistered handgun, Michigan court records show." [San Francisco Chronicle, 7/2/03]

1972: Issa Was Arrested For Auto Theft. According to the New York Times: "In 1972, [Darrell Issa] and his brother William were arrested in the theft of a Maserati from a Cleveland car dealership." [New York Times, 7/23/03]

1972: Issa Also Charged With "Carrying A Concealed Weapon." According to the San Francisco Chronicle: "Court records...show that in March 1972, one month after getting out of the Army, Issa was arrested on charges of carrying a concealed weapon and auto theft. The court file doesn't indicate the type of weapon involved." [San Francisco Chronicle, 7/2/03]

Auto Theft, Concealed Weapons Charges Were Ultimately Dropped. According to the San Francisco Chronicle: "In May 1972, a grand jury indicted Issa on a larceny charge in connection with the car theft but dropped the weapons charge. Two weeks later, a prosecutor dropped the car theft charge as well." [San Francisco Chronicle, 7/2/03]

Charges Were Dropped Despite Witness Reports. According to the Los Angeles Times, "a witness reported seeing [Darrell and William Issa] pushing the sports car down the street just before midnight, records and interviews show. But the charges were dismissed -- months before the older brother, [William], was convicted of stealing another car amid a string of offenses." [Los Angeles Times, 5/23/98, via Nexis]


So, maybe we should all start referring to Representative Issa as "Godfather" or "Don Issa".

Source: http://mediamatters.org/research/201101110034

[NNN0LHI]

23. GOP is panicking

Their internal polls have turned to shit and they know what is about to happen.

Don

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

26. I hope you're right.

[OrwellwasRight]

28. Mistakes?

It didn't end that badly for them in 2000. As I recall, they "won" the election and had a healthy majority in the House. I think they only lost the Senate because Leahy switched parties????

Anyway, I'd love to agree, but overreaching has tended to work well for them is all I'm saying. Our namby-pamby responses to their overreaching has not worked out super great for us.