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Ohioblue22

(1,430 posts)
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:10 PM Dec 2016

Thom Hartman just nullified Godwin's law for the next 4 years

Last edited Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:57 PM - Edit history (2)

Sorry people he said that on his show today just before either posted it. He wanted to refer to trump as being Hitler-like. Comparing his rallies to the
Nuremberg rallies etc.

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thom Hartman just nullified Godwin's law for the next 4 years (Original Post) Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 OP
godwin's law is very misunderstood. unblock Dec 2016 #1
I've heard it as forgotmylogin Dec 2016 #4
as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving hitler approaches 1 unblock Dec 2016 #7
It's not a real law oberliner Dec 2016 #8
hmm. not an experiment really. perhaps "godwin's saw"? unblock Dec 2016 #9
He says it was an experiment oberliner Dec 2016 #14
interesting article. subtle distinction perhaps, but i think the experiment wasn't the law itself unblock Dec 2016 #17
Fair enough oberliner Dec 2016 #21
my concern is that it has morphed into the idea that *any* hitler comparison is foolish. unblock Dec 2016 #23
The term "nazi" is often used flippantly to describe any mean or strict person oberliner Dec 2016 #28
I will use Orange Julius. sarcasmo Dec 2016 #12
A little context would be helpful....nt Wounded Bear Dec 2016 #2
Yah, what did Harmann do? Or say? Achilleaze Dec 2016 #5
Sorry he said it out the radio Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #19
Gee, that's for that Breaking News Thom, Mr. Russia Today. baldguy Dec 2016 #3
Love posts like this. WTF are you talking about? Do have ANYTHING to inform us? Mika Dec 2016 #6
Sorry he said that on his show. Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #16
Link, please. MineralMan Dec 2016 #10
He is talking about it now on the radio he's comparing trump to hitler Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #18
Ah, I see. But, I'm not listening to whatever radio station MineralMan Dec 2016 #20
It's OK. It's not a big deal Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #22
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017415804 Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #26
Wtf is this about? cwydro Dec 2016 #11
I can't link to one sentence he spoke on his show Ohioblue22 Dec 2016 #15
But you could paraphrase Achilleaze Dec 2016 #24
Invoking Godwin's Law has been as valid as calling Dibs or Shotgun in any formal discussion. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #13
No, Godwin's law only applies to discussions that don't start out about Nazis or Nazi activities. haele Dec 2016 #25
Godwin himself said it's probably valid to discuss analogies between Trump, the alt right and Nazism stevenleser Dec 2016 #27

unblock

(51,974 posts)
1. godwin's law is very misunderstood.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:14 PM
Dec 2016

it only says that eventually, in an online discussion, someone will mention hitler/nazis.

it's commonly misunderstood to mean things like, whoever mentions hitler/nazis first loses the argument.

forgotmylogin

(7,496 posts)
4. I've heard it as
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:21 PM
Dec 2016

basically the point where an online argument jumps the shark. If the original subject was not about Hitler/Nazis to begin with, it's the point the discussion has descended into reductio ad absurdum and all further continuation is pointless. That's been shortened to "the argument is over/someone loses" but it's like "Oh, the alien babies are real people have contributed, I'm out."

unblock

(51,974 posts)
7. as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving hitler approaches 1
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:27 PM
Dec 2016

that's the original.

the idea that the discussion is then over, as you describe, and/or lost by whoever brought up hitler/nazis, is common, and listed in wiki as a "corollary", but it's very dangerous as it can easily lead to shutting down discussion when the the analogy actually makes sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
14. He says it was an experiment
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:46 PM
Dec 2016
So, I set out to conduct an experiment – to build a counter-meme designed to make discussion participants see how they are acting as vectors to a particularly silly and offensive meme…and perhaps to curtail the glib Nazi comparisons.

https://www.wired.com/1994/10/godwin-if-2/

unblock

(51,974 posts)
17. interesting article. subtle distinction perhaps, but i think the experiment wasn't the law itself
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:55 PM
Dec 2016

rather the experiment was promulgating the law and observing the effects, to see if it actually curtailed gratuitous nazi/hitler references.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
21. Fair enough
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:02 PM
Dec 2016

But I think it has essentially morphed into a more expansive idea (i.e. that making a knee-jerk Hitler comparison without fully thinking it through is foolish).

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
28. The term "nazi" is often used flippantly to describe any mean or strict person
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:43 PM
Dec 2016

That is sort of a pet peeve of mine, to be honest.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
10. Link, please.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:33 PM
Dec 2016

We are not looking at the same thing you are. If you want to alert us to something, post a link to it. We cannot see through your eyes.

 

Ohioblue22

(1,430 posts)
18. He is talking about it now on the radio he's comparing trump to hitler
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:58 PM
Dec 2016
For example he's comparing trump's rallies to the Nuremberg rallies

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
20. Ah, I see. But, I'm not listening to whatever radio station
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:01 PM
Dec 2016

you are listening to. Probably very few people on DU are. So, we had no idea what you were talking about. Providing information in thread-starting posts is the polite thing to do, so people won't be confused or wonder what your source might be.

I still don't know what Hartmann said, you see, that led to your original post.

Oh, well, never mind...

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
24. But you could paraphrase
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:35 PM
Dec 2016

That would qualify as a clue for those who are not tuned into his radio channel...most of us.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
13. Invoking Godwin's Law has been as valid as calling Dibs or Shotgun in any formal discussion.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 01:39 PM
Dec 2016

Invoking Godwin's Law has been as valid as calling Dibs or Shotgun in any formal discussion.

haele

(12,581 posts)
25. No, Godwin's law only applies to discussions that don't start out about Nazis or Nazi activities.
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 02:44 PM
Dec 2016

With Steve Bannon and other nativists/supremicists, KKK'ers hanging around and supporting the administration, with the use of Nazi propaganda tactics and potential adoption of Nazi government policies (forced birth, isolation of religious/ethnic minorities amongst the citizenry, approval of extra-judicial activities against perceived social deviance.) in the current administration, Godwin's law does not apply.


Haele

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
27. Godwin himself said it's probably valid to discuss analogies between Trump, the alt right and Nazism
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 04:11 PM
Dec 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.63636b6cc2ce
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My Facebook timeline and Twitter feed have been blowing up lately. And whenever that happens, it’s almost always because someone’s making comparisons to Hitler or Nazis or the Holocaust somewhere. Sure enough, as Trump pontificates about immigrants or ethnic or religious minorities, with scarcely less subtlety than certain early 20th-century political aspirants in Europe did, people on the Internet feel compelled to ask me what I think about it.

Why? Simple: Because 25 years ago, when the Internet was still a pup, I came up with Godwin’s Law. In its original form, Godwin’s Law goes like this: “As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.”

Invoking Hitler or Nazis (or World War II or the Holocaust) is common in public life these days, both in the United States and around the world, and it has been for quite a while. Back in 1990, I set out — half-seriously and half-whimsically — to do something about it.

Through most of the 1980s, I’d been a hobbyist using computer “bulletin-board systems” that connected small local communities by telephone lines. I couldn’t help but notice how often comparisons to Hitler or Nazis came up in heated exchanges, usually as a kind of rhetorical hammer to express rage or contempt for one’s opponent. Once I was back in school to study law, I leveraged my student status to get a free Internet-based computer account. With access to the global Internet came still more hyperbolic Hitler and Nazi comparisons.

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