Wm. McPhail nails it in his New Yorker cartoon ..

[DemoTex]

And as a smug, retired airline captain, I LOVE IT!!!

[oberliner]

1. It seems like this cartoon is mocking the idea of democracy

The suggestion being that ordinary people are too stupid to choose who will lead them?

[blue cat]

3. It seems like your statement

Is just plain stupid.

[oberliner]

8. What is the message of the cartoon?

It seems to be saying that most people are morons.

[KittyWampus]

17. Complex jobs require people with advanced skill sets.

But then, you know that.

[oberliner]

21. Of course

But the cartoon specifically shows a group of people voting, so, one would think, the cartoonist is saying something about democracy.

[blue cat]

26. Of course you would

Even though it's obviously not what it's about. I'm sorry that you don't get it.

[oberliner]

27. Maybe there is more to the cartoon than you think

It could be making a broader statement than you realize. It's worth thinking about, at least.

[Schema Thing]

32. GOOD FUCKING LORD MAN, IT IS ABOUT THE ELECTION OF DONALD TRUMP.

[oberliner]

34. OK

I guess I was overthinking it.

[Akamai]

38. Al Franken in the earliest days of Air America posed the question like this: A voice comes over the

speaker system in a plane, saying: "Our captain and co-captain are incapacitated -- can anyone back there fly a plane?"

And at that point (in the joke), Joe Garigiola, the baseball player, is urged by friends on board that flight. "Joe, you can do it! Go fly the plane!"

And so Joe lumbers forward, maybe not willingly, and flies the plane and it crashes immediately into the side of a mountain.

Al Franken then said: "If you sit in the pilot's chair, you are assuring others that you can do the job." And Trump has shown no sign he is able to do the job. (Actually, this cartoon is so close to the Al Franken joke that it may have been based on a joke like that.)

My uncle was a captain in the navy for 20 years in command of a missile frigate and he said that to be captain, you had to take all responsibilities associated with the job. Bush was an example of what happens when we have a president not up for the job. (And so was Reagan.)

[Roy Rolling]

67. Overthinking? A tad, perhaps

But in closing, it carries that message, too. A charismatic and convincing person DID convince 66 million Americans to cast a vote for someone with neither experience nor training.

So the cartoon carries two messages. Three would be overthinking it. LOL

[pangaia]

45. LOL !!!

That makes 2 best comments of the day..
😆😅

[LeftishBrit]

76. Also relevant to Brexit, I'd say

[Hortensis]

62. "A republic . . . if you can keep it." Ben Franklin's reply

to someone on the street at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 on what kind of government they'd decided on. The potentially capricious will of the electorate has always been understood to be the great weakness that destroys republics.

Thanks, DemoTex. It is a terrific illustration.

[pangaia]

43. LOL !!!!

Best post of the day...
😂😂😂😆

[Skittles]

4. you are REALLY starting to give yourself away now

truth hurts, does it?

[oberliner]

7. Huh?

The cartoon seems to be saying that most people are idiots, and that making choices based on voting is therefore foolish.

[Skittles]

9. that's not what it says at ALL

it's SAYING to DON'T EXPECT A COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED PERSON TO DO A JOB THAT AFFECTS LIVES - and YES, THINKING DONALD FUCKING TRUMP is qualified to be PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is indeed STUPID / FOOLISH

[oberliner]

13. The voting aspect of the cartoon seems to imply that making important choices democratically

Can be foolish.

I guess I see how it is more of an attack on those who went after the supposed "smugness" of Democrats and/or liberals and then chose a totally unqualified person to take charge instead.

Hard for me to tell exactly who are what the cartoon is spoofing, but I might just be a little out of it right now.

[Skittles]

14. Donald Trump is NOT A SOLUTION

he is PATHETIC

[oberliner]

16. Well, that goes without saying

I just wasn't sure if the cartoon was making a broader point about democracy in general or was just directed at Trump in particular.

[Skittles]

18. good lawd

and by the way, the Electoral College OVERRIDES democracy

and Trump was installed with the help of VOTER SUPPRESSION, RUSSIA and the FBI

NO DEMOCRACY THERE

[oberliner]

23. Again, I'm just contemplating the cartoon

Maybe it is about something more than just Trump.

[Skittles]

28. it's about Trump's IDIOTIC SUPPORTERS

*OVER AND OUT*

[blue cat]

29. Contemplate 🤔 away

[oberliner]

31. Just thought it was worth discussing

This is a discussion forum. The cartoon is interesting. Seems worth thinking/talking about. Good satirical cartoons in theory inspire that sort of thing.

[blue cat]

40. Sure

It seems highly doubtful that the cartoon is about dissing democracy. I found it very frustrating that some Americans would vote for someone clearly not up to the job.

[oberliner]

54. It does beg the question though

Of how should our "pilots" be chosen.

[Akamai]

71. Certainly they should not be chosen by votes cast by people who do not know the requirements

for the job.

Have to have some expertise in the area if your job requires a skill-set.

[moda253]

74. Holy fuck.

Are all 42k of your posts like this?

[oberliner]

75. What do you mean?

I do try to look at things in a thoughtful way, whenever possible.

This cartoon seemed to have quite a lot going on.

More than meets the eye perhaps!

[Chico Man]

81. Critical thinking ebbs and flows on DU

Anger and emotion are the usual culprits.

I appreciate you going above and beyond and offering up a critique in such an echo chamber environment.

[oberliner]

84. Thanks!

I gave it a shot. Somewhat surprised by the reaction, but oh well.

[YOHABLO]

44. Not to mention the SCOTUS gave 'Bush the younger' the Presidency..

or should I have said 'Bush the pretender'?

[pangaia]

46. My god, if you went to Oberlin, one would assume you got the joke...Lol...

[oberliner]

51. I credit my Oberlin education for my perceptive analysis

Of the more subtle implications of the cartoon.

[pangaia]

53. Well, as you wish.

[LanternWaste]

79. you confuse "imply" and "infer."

you confuse "imply" and "infer." Bias can do that.

[LeftishBrit]

87. It is not that voting as such can be foolish; but that deliberately voting for the non-expert can be

foolish.

[RobinA]

65. I'm Not Sure

that's what the cartoon is saying, but if the shoe fits...

[KittyWampus]

19. That poster gave themselves away a longggg time ago.

[oberliner]

24. What does that mean?

I am not sure I understand that remark. Could you clarify?

[Hekate]

42. Long ago and far away in another galaxy

[pangaia]

48. Lol....

[baldguy]

11. Which is why the Founders set up the USA as a republic, not a democracy.

Do you think that the pilot of an airliner should be selected from among the untrained passengers? Really?

[oberliner]

15. Is the plane a metaphor for the USA?

If so, what is the cartoon saying about how one should get to be president?

Presumably, not by being elected by one's peers is what the cartoon seems to be implying.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it (or underthinking it!)

[Skittles]

20. THE "PEERS" selected HILLARY

BY THREE MILLION VOTES

[oberliner]

22. Very true

Not sure how that relates to what the cartoon is supposed to be illustrating though.

[Skittles]

25. EXACTLY

YOU brought it up

[JustinL]

57. They didn't do a very good job, considering that their system gave us fuckface as President.

The more democratic method of going by the popular vote would have given us a qualified President.

[baldguy]

63. The Founders didn't give us gerrymandering, voter suppression, the influence of corporate money,

a lazy corporate media, or Russian hacking. The fascists in the GOP did.

[JustinL]

92. The antidemocratic system I was referring to was the Electoral College.

Without the EC, Clinton would have won, despite all those other things you mentioned.

I think we agree, though, that the election of fuckface was the result of too little democracy, not too much.

[hay rick]

41. The idea of democracy is not to be confused with our recent experience.

This cartoon is clearly commentary on the election of Trump, not democracy in general. And yes- uninformed, misinformed and irresponsible voters can make catastrophically bad decisions. It should also be noted that the majority of "ordinary people" were not "too stupid" to choose the right leader.

[LanternWaste]

77. It seems like this cartoon is mocking the idea of inexperience.

The suggestion being that ordinary people are too inexperienced to fly an airplane.


But no doubt, our bias compels us to see that which we want to see, and we will indeed, rationalize that bias as something else.

[oberliner]

82. If that was the case, why focus on the voting?

The totality of what we see in the cartoon is a group of people voting (foolishly).

If it was just meant to mock the idea of inexperience, one could certainly do so in a myriad of ones unconnected to voting.

[LeftishBrit]

89. Because it is about voting for the inexperienced person...

Last edited Wed Jan 4, 2017, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)

on the grounds that inexperience is being presented as a virtue!

One can ridicule a particular vote, without ridiculing the whole concept of voting. If one makes fun of the reasons why someone buys a car, or writes a book, this does not mean that no one should ever buy a car or write a book.

Admittedly, it might be a more accurate reflection of this particular election if a majority of the passengers voted for the experienced pilot, but a Pilot Selection College chose the non-expert anyway.

[yodermon]

85. 62 million people *actually* voted for trump. so yes.

Not exactly a new thought, e.g.

[LeftishBrit]

86. No - it is mocking the idea that experience in government should be a disqualification for office

And perhaps more generally that 'experts' are not to be trusted.

In the run-up to Brexit, Michael Gove, former Education Secretary no less, said that the British had 'had enough of experts'.

The Unspeakable used 'anti-elitism' as part of his appeal. He certainly is very much of the elite as regards his wealth, but he portrayed himself as somehow more suitable precisely because he had less government experience than Clinton.

[AngryAmish]

2. Is he any relation to Andy McPhail?

[ffr]

5. You don't even have to throw in the race or gender card to get it.

These dummies need to be put in their place, instead of glorified as yesteryear heroes.

[lindysalsagal]

6. I'll take a smug out-of-touch pilot or surgeon over a sensitive wanna-be any day.

The cartoon is right. None of us is going on a date with the future potus: We require competence, not a drinking buddy.

[humbled_opinion]

10. So politically this analogy

is saying that only experienced politicians should run the country ?

[Skittles]

12. it is saying

COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE SHOULD NOT RUN THE COUNTRY

by ANY measure, Donald fucking Trump is COMPLETELY UNQUALIFIED

[greatauntoftriplets]

30. Herr Drumpf is unqualified to run a vacuum cleaner.

[niyad]

37. not even a manual carpet sweeper!!

[Chico Man]

83. Unfortunately the only measure that matters in this case

Is electoral votes (as has been the case with every president).

Playing devils advocate here, it is very hard for an ordinary citizen to gather enough electoral votes to win a presidential election. Obviously Trump had something going for him.

[LeftishBrit]

90. Yes, he had something going for him. $$$$$$$$, that's what he had going for him.

[Chico Man]

95. They both had plenty of $$$$$$$$$$$

Just saying.

And ordinary citizens do not have a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[meadowlander]

50. Well, people with some form of relevant experience.

Why is that a difficult concept to grasp?

Yes, we live in a democracy. That doesn't mean any boob off the street is prepared to command a nuclear arsenal, direct public policy that affects millions of lives, and manage a budget of $3.8 trillion and a government that employs 2.8 million people.

As someone with a PhD and fifteen years busting my ass in the civil service, I'm sick of people like Sarah Palin saying things like being a mom qualifies her to be president and not being called out on it. I'm not qualified to be president and neither is anyone else who hasn't spent at least twenty or thirty years of their life dedicated to the sole purpose of accumulating relevant experience.

When did we decide to settle for so little in our leaders?

The GOP's game plan has been painfully obvious for years. They keep throwing monkey wrenches into the government and then complaining that it doesn't work and that therefore we need "outsiders" to come in and "drain the swamp". And then when they are in power, they just loot and pillage until enough people catch on to put them out of power again.

What I don't get is how so many people can fall for it, over and over and over again. It's only been 8 years since the Global Financial Crisis and the American public has handed the whole shebang, lock, stock and barrel, back over to the same asshats responsible for it.

[pnwmom]

58. He might not be, but I strongly think experience is a plus. n/t

[treestar]

64. Only experienced politicians

Should be president

[LeftishBrit]

88. Not necessarily, but that only people with some knowledge about government should do so

[dhill926]

33. jesus....ok, easy version....

think of the guy standing up, as a Trump surrogate....

[oberliner]

35. Fewer hands should be up

Not such a large percentage of the passengers.

[dhill926]

36. artistic license....

[FailureToCommunicate]

39. Maybe that was just the "business class" section.

[YOHABLO]

47. Interesting how political satire can be interpreted in so many ways.

[pangaia]

49. Thanks for starting what has turned into the most entertaining thread of the day...

Lol..
😂

[oberliner]

52. I'll take most of the credit for the laughs

As they seem to be primarily at my expense!

[pangaia]

55. That being a good sport...

🤗

[ProudProgressiveNow]

56. K&R nt

[King_Klonopin]

59. I believe this is a commentary on the dangers of lumping all "professional politicians"

in the same basket of deplorables. The Pilot = The Professional Politician

The republicans have become masters of this sort of rhetoric. They have twisted the
term "Professional Politician" into one of derision, provided that the politician of interest
is a long-time Democratic politician. This is one of the narratives that Trump used
in his campaign to criticize Clinton: He was the regular guy with no political ambition;
she was the insider who has been an ambitious politician all of her life and, therefore,
has "lost touch" with the needs of regular people. Political ambition becomes a negative
for a politician, but these ambitions are perfectly acceptable for an "outsider" like Trump.

There are many people who have chosen public service (politics, government) as their
profession. Some of them are very good at their job, while others are not. Clinton has
been very good at her chosen "profession". Her experience should be valued, not
demeaned. Trump is completely incompetent and inexperienced, yet he won the election
through the illogical public appeal depicted in the cartoon above. Who would you rather
have piloting "the plane of State", Hillary or Trump ? The insane passengers of the
American electorate chose the idiot in aisle 3 instead of the 40-year veteran pilot.

The inertia of incumbency is an issue that perpetuates the status quo in politics. The
proposal of term limits in government is a two-edged sword, as it would eliminate the
good with the bad. The republicans have figured out a way to break through this by
demonizing the professional politician (i.e. Democrat), though it is blatantly hypocritical
and turns common sense and logic upside down. However, it results in the loss of competent
public servants who are then replaced by incompetent, partisan hacks.

A lengthy, successful resume in politics can now be used against you.

[Historic NY]

60. He probably stayed in a Holiday Inn last night too......

[awoke_in_2003]

61. This sim tech recommends

When everything is good, the modern plane almost flies itself. Pilots are paid to know how to handle when the shit hits the fan.

[meaculpa2016]

66. Airline pilots need specialized training...

experience and certification.

Any idiot can become a politician.

[Paladin]

70. A decent and competent presidency requires experience.

Stick around for the foreseeable future and witness just how prescient this cartoon is.

[mcar]

68. K&R

[pinboy3niner]

69. YOU can have my back--again--any day, Mac

The only time I was sent to do a pre-op aerial recon in Vietnam the loach pilot, trying to be funny, said, "Okay, you've got the stick" as he released the controls and the chopper started going batshit crazy. He quickly resumed control but it was definitely not funny to me!

[4lbs]

72. If any Trump voter gets sick, they should get all their medical attention and advice from

WebMD and a first-year medical student.

No way they should see a doctor that has been doing this for 20 years. They can't be trusted!

[LeftishBrit]

78. Unfortunately, some of those types do have that attitude to medicine as well

Don't follow 'expert' health advice; just go to your latest favourite quack or faith-healer.

If adults want to risk killing themselves, I suppose it's their choice, but sometimes they put their kids in danger as well; and, in the case of anti-vaccinators, other people's kids as well.

[crosinski]

73. I'm feeling pretty funny today. Let me give this a shot.

We're supposed to assume that the passenger who thinks pilots are smug and have lost touch with regular passengers isn't a pilot. Then he wants to fly the plane! That's pretty funny because it's unexpected!!!

Then he takes a vote to see if the other passengers feel the same way. That's pretty funny also, because it's unexpected again!!!

And THEN, the OTHER passengers VOTE to make HIM the NEW PILOT, knowing that he probably isn't one! HaHaHa! Even more unexpected zaniness!!!

But wait, there's more. It suddenly occurs to us that this is EXACTLY what happened here when a bunch of people, who didn't know anything about government, elected someone who didn't know anything about piloting a government, and who is also so terrified of all those controls, that he keeps tweeting at us instead of learning how to fly the damned thing!!! LOL!!!!!

Get it now?!!! Hahahaha!!!! Good one!

I'm sorry. I thought I had it, but no, I'm just sad now. Very sad. I'm afraid someone else will have to step up to the plate.

[Gothmog]

80. Great cartoon

[flying-skeleton]

91. Missing the Red Hat !!

[Scurrilous]

93. K & R

[Angry Dragon]

94. Off Topic .............. are you still working your tower??

Liked the cartoon